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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: AdrianB38 on Saturday 27 August 22 21:26 BST (UK)
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I have located a relative in the 1921 census (Charles Purcell [indexed as Parcell], b abt 1899 in Nantwich, Cheshire). He is in the British Army in India - piece RG 15/28121, if I interpret the image filename correctly. Unfortunately, his detail just tells me that he's a "Private" in the "Infantry" - no data about what unit he's in. (No soldier's number, either).
The address sheet for him says that he's at "Chanbattia Hill Depot" (though it might be "Chaubattia", apologies if necessary!), which has an address of Ranikhet, United Provinces, India. Nowhere on that sheet does it say what unit(s) are stationed there and the catalogue description for RG 15/28121 doesn't mention unit(s) either.
Anyone got any ideas of how to find what regiment / battalion / whatever he was in? I've only pulled down the one detail image, which is labelled as page 35 but I'm not about to start buying the 34 previous images just in case one says something about the unit.
Thanks for any ideas...
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1st battalion rifle brigade were in India in 1921.
https://rgjmuseum.co.uk/photo-archive-item/india-1921/
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Thanks - I'm sure that there were lots of battalions in India in 1921! :( Ideally, if there isn't some data in the census that I'm missing, I was hoping for a list somewhere that says what was at Chanbattia / Chaubattia, maybe something akin to the reports on Stations of the British Army that appeared in newspapers before WW1.
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Historical background for Rhaniket and Chaubattia:
https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Ranikhet
Tony
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"At the end of November 1919 the 1st Worcestershire sailed for India, where the Battalion was destined to be quartered at Nasirabad and Meerut. The 3rd Battalion returned from Dublin to Dover, lay there until the spring of 1920 and then followed the older Battalion down the Straits and the Red Sea to India. The Battalion was cantoned at Chaubattia, with detachments at Dum Dum and Barrackpore, till the spring of 1921, when the companies were concentrated at Fyzabad."
http://www.worcestershireregiment.com/bat_1_1919_1921.php
Tony
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The 1921 Census was taken on the 19th June, so can not be certain that the 1st Battalion, Worcestershire Regiment were in Chaubattia then.
Tony
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Charles Henry Purcell born 10 June 1899 one of 11 Children to William John Purcell and Mary Williamson who married June Quarter 1888 Prestwich
It was normal to follow Enlistment as previous elder Siblings but after 1916 he probably never allowed a choice.
Eldest Pte 235416 Walter Purcell died 3 August 1918 in the 1st Btn Worcester Regt
Charles was 18 in 1917 and may have enlisted then and after Training gone overseas 1918 or 1919
But the Medal Index Card shows only one C H Purcell in Worcestershire Regt but he Died of Wounds
So not him.
If he was sent to India 1919 as alot did.
Your Best and Only Chance using only his Date of Birth and Full Name is to apply to Glasgow for his Full Army Records
https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records/apply-for-someone-elses-records
(https://i.postimg.cc/NFrMckpp/20220828-083919.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Charles Henry Purcell born 6 October 1899
Born 10 June 1899 per the 1939 Register. Baptised 2 July 1899 at Nantwich
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Yes ShaunJ did originally miss quote Birth Date but did Modify and Correct it quickly
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Odd that he's not on the MoD's published lists of servicemen born before 1900 and discharged after 1920.
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Good find ShaunJ
We have No Real Evidence that Charles Purcell was in India in 1921 or Even in the Army at all.
The Census Found was for Parcell
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Thanks - I'm sure that there were lots of battalions in India in 1921! :( Ideally, if there isn't some data in the census that I'm missing, I was hoping for a list somewhere that says what was at Chanbattia / Chaubattia, maybe something akin to the reports on Stations of the British Army that appeared in newspapers before WW1.
Mad, rambling things
Keyword Chaubattia, 1,106 results in 1921 census index.
Including 555 privates.
British India Office Births & Baptisms, 12 results for Chaubattia / Chaubattia,St Michael in 1921
(come up as Jhansi in army birth indexes?)
Robert Lewis, d 3 Aug 1921, buried Chaubattia Cemetery
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/1465851/robert-lewis/
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Anyone got any ideas of how to find what regiment / battalion / whatever he was in?
Research the other names on the same census page. Some will have served in WW1.
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Could CHP have served in WW1?
Medal index card of Charles H Purcell, SWB, is Charles Henry on the medal roll.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D4744421
Probably he can be quickly eliminated :), and Adrian is a military whizz himself.
Charles Henry Purcell on the electoral registers from autumn 1921, St Paul, P B of Blackburn.
That him? Was he an absent voter?
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It is possible he was Conscripted 1917 into the Royal Welch but unlikely him.
Depot ?
(https://i.postimg.cc/90XvfrFK/30850-A001272-01267.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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(https://i.postimg.cc/HWQwYBfq/41629-625537-9616-00300.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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Odd that he's not on the MoD's published lists of servicemen born before 1900 and discharged after 1920.
Yeah. Except that I've found (or not found) so many missing from those spreadsheets that I have zero faith in them... :(
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Charles Henry Purcell on the electoral registers from autumn 1921, St Paul, P B of Blackburn.
That him? Was he an absent voter?
That's him - though you got there before me - because the rest of that household is his family. Unfortunately (and I think I've tried this before as well), I can't locate the Blackburn Absent Voters lists in those years that he's marked up as being absent. FindMyPast doesn't have a separate AVL for Blackburn (unlike, Crewe, say) nor are the absent entries for those years at the end of the book as they are in some constituencies in later years.
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Historical background for Rhaniket and Chaubattia: ...
So at least I know the correct spelling, thanks! (As correct as one can be with English variations on India themes...)
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The SWB were in India between the Wars
https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/south-wales-borderers
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Research the other names on the same census page. Some will have served in WW1.
Hmm. Interesting.
So far only one of those names looks helpful - Albert Stopgate. The 1911 and 1921 censuses show only 1 chap of that name of military age, so the guy on the 1921 of that name (Albert Stopgate, 23y 11m, b Cwmbran) must surely be the guy of that name in the Medal Index Cards:
S Wales Borderers 23476
Bedford R 43673
S Wales Borderers 80291
Albert is the only "single name" so far - one or two of the others match names in the SWB but I'm in danger of confirmation bias since there are several MICs for each of those names in different regiments.
The Monthly Army Lists for July and December 1921 show the 2nd Battalion SWB at Jhansi. Not sure that's helpful in that Jhansi isn't a place in the TNA Catalogue description of RG 15/28121, the 1921 census piece in question.
So now I'm wondering if S Wales Borderer 82331 Purcell Charles H might actually have been him... He seems a bit young to have accumulated 3 different numbers for a Medal Index Card but who knows?
I suspect I'll have to park this until the SWB's records get to Kew...
Thanks for the ideas guys.
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The Monthly Army Lists for July and December 1921 show the 2nd Battalion SWB at Jhansi. Not sure that's helpful in that Jhansi isn't a place in the TNA Catalogue description of RG 15/28121, the 1921 census piece in question.
From the army birth returns, a 2nd Bn. South Wales Borderers birth.
Sybil Catherine born 13 Oct 1921, at British Station Hospital, Jhansi
Father Walter D Arcy (I think D'Arcy), who was a C.S.M., mother Sarah Ann (Lowe)
The Officer registering the birth was O.M. Wales, Capt. Adjt. 2nd S. W. Borderers.
Could Walter be the Walter Daisy born 1895, Egypt, at Chaubattia in the 1921 free index?
I notice there is some poor transcribing of the less common surnames going on here.
Putting Company Sergeant Major in keyword search also brings Walter Daisy up.
Also using Chaubattia as a keyword we get Owen Murton Wales, born 1895, Pontypridd, Glamorganshire. Presumably that's the O M Wales on the cert.
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Going back to 1920
Walter D'Arcy at Jhansi again
This time the birth was of another daughter, Eileen Mary, born 16 Feb.
Also George Patrick McDonnell and his wife Beatrice May, nee Cooper, had a son John born 19 October 1920, at the British Station Hospital, Jhansi.
George was Private 3902017, 2nd South Wales Borderers.
Officer registering both births was V. B. Ramsden, Bt. Major Adjutant, 2nd South Wales Borderers.
Where are the wives to be found in 1921? :-\
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Where are the wives to be found in 1921?
As I understand it, only the service personnel serving overseas were enumerated, not their accompanying families.
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Thanks, Shaun.
I am surprised at that (though less so now, having failed to find any!)
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Re: Albert Stopgate SWB then Bedfordshire Regt
Btns of the Bedfordshire Regt appear to have been disbanded in 1920 while in India
Hence his returning to the SWB 1920
And on 1921 Census with them.