RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Armagh => Topic started by: LAW1221 on Thursday 25 August 22 18:46 BST (UK)
-
Hi Everyone! Looking for any possible assistance trying to figure out the relationship between my great grandfather, Thomas WILSON, born June 24, 1861 in Ballynary, Tartaraghan, Armagh, Ireland and another gentleman (James, more below) who may be either his son or nephew. Thomas’ parents were George Wilson (1829-Jan 10, 1889) and Francis Greenaway (Dec 17, 1827- Nov 2, 1884). I can only find the following siblings for Thomas: Anne, Jane, Mary, Elizabeth and James. Thomas moved to Manchester, CT to work at the Cheney Silk Mills in the late 1880s. He married Isabella Gilpin on October 6, 1891 in Astoria, Queens, NY. They had 3 daughters: Ethel (my grandmother), Amanda and Maude. However, at some point in the 1890s, a James Wilson (born June 28, 1884 in Portadown) comes to live with Thomas and Isabella. James also worked at the silk mills, he notes on his employment card that his father is Thomas and his sister is Ethel. Thomas’ employment card lists James as a relative but doesn’t define to what degree. When Thomas died in 1952, his obituary lists James as his son. Isabella’s obit in 1915 doesn’t even mention James. James’ grandson told me that he said that he was orphaned in Ireland and came to live with Thomas but he never discussed the nature of the relationship. I had hoped that finding Thomas’ parents and siblings in Armagh would have cleared this up but it’s another roadblock. I can only find one brother for Thomas, James, born Jan 17, 1854 but I have no further information on him, whether he married, had children, died and left a child orphaned. And I cannot find a birth through the civil registry for James that gives me anything definitive. There is a James born June 25th 1884 to an Arthur Wilson and Elizabeth Reid, but I can’t tie them to Thomas. If anyone has any information, I’d love to finally figure out the relationship. Was Thomas James’ father or uncle perhaps? Thanks so much. Laura.
-
Marriage of Arthur Wilson & Elisa Jane Reid gives his residence & father's name/occupation-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1868/11446/8204458.pdf
?Arthur Wilson-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1899/05783/4635222.pdf
Administration of the estate of Arthur Wilson late of Tallymore Etra County Armagh Farmer who died 20 October 1899 granted at Armagh to Eliza J. Wilson the Widow
-
Hi
Thomas' brother James (born 1854), I have no idea whether he married or when he died. The James I'm looking for who lived with Thomas in Manchester, CT did marry Mary Ellen Rogers on Sept 5, 1906 in Manchester, CT. He died in Manchester, CT on Nov 2, 1963. They had two children: Marjorie and Eldon. Thank you, Laura
-
Earlier topic-
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=723572.msg5676866#msg5676866
By 1920, James was married and living in Manchester, CT. He went by James B. Wilson, the "B", according to his grandson, was added to eliminate confusion from another James Wilson in town. He was a postman and later died in 1963.
I've never been able to determine exactly when he came to CT as he seems to have missed the census windows with the Wilson's. His grandson told me he was orphaned and emigrated around 9 years old. His WWI draft card puts his DOB as June 28, 1884, which would mean he emigrated around 1893 which is consistent with the census records.
Been trying to find Thomas' siblings as I assume James' father was Thomas' brother...
-
Hi
Thomas' brother James (born 1854), I have no idea whether he married or when he died. The James I'm looking for who lived with Thomas in Manchester, CT did marry Mary Ellen Rogers on Sept 5, 1906 in Manchester, CT. He died in Manchester, CT on Nov 2, 1963. They had two children: Marjorie and Eldon. Thank you, Laura
What is listed for parents on marriage and death certificates?
-
Thank you for finding Arthur's marriage to Eliza, it likely eliminates him as a brother to Thomas since the father's name is different. Thomas' father was George; Arthur's is William...at least I can perhaps remove this couple and their son as being my James.
Thanks again, Laura
-
What is listed for parents on marriage and death certificates?
Connecticut certificates ask for names of both parents, etc.
-
I think I might have figured out the mystery of who James Wilson (born 1884) was!
You haven't mentioned other daughters of George Wilson & Frances Greenaway so not sure if you found records of them.
Sarah Wilson (19 July 1864 Ballynarey-25 Feb.1884 Ballynary)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03609/2331611.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1884/06340/4818268.pdf
Margaret Wilson (11 Nov.1866 Ballynarry-1867?)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1866/03512/2291723.pdf
Margaret Wilson (19 Feb.1869 Ballynarry)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03413/2251877.pdf
Frances Maria Wilson (Oct.1871 Ballynarry-Dec.1871 Ballynary)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1871/03278/2201294.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1871/020760/7283171.pdf
-
The easy stuff first-
James Wilson (17 Jan.1854-17 June 1876 Ballynary)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1876/020579/7220849.pdf
Mary Wilson (c1857-10 Apr.1873 Ballynarry)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1873/020701/7263290.pdf
Now for James-
1884, 4 July- James Wilson born
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1884/02684/1988719.pdf (parents- George Wilson, weaver & Eliza Greenaway- but informant- Fanny Wilson, reg. 26 July 1884)
1884, 26 July- Fanny Wilson registered birth of James Wilson
1884, 10 Aug.- Eliza Wilson, spinster, died (father George Wilson registered death same day) (father George Wilson registered death same day)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1884/06318/4811949.pdf (continued fever 21 days, informant- George Wilson, reg. 10 Aug.1884)
BY puerperal fever is meant "a continued fever communicable by contagion, occurring in connection with childbirth, and often associated with … https://www.proquest.com/openview/58c7a95d13f3e4d8ee289f80d8c0805f/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=40146
1884, 2 Nov.- Frances (Greenaway) Wilson died
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1884/06310/4809354.pdf
*correction
-
Fanny Wilson was the informant on James' birth in 1884 who was likely the grandmother. George Wilson married Fanny Greenaway in 1850. I'm missing the connection you are making which explains James, but he is likely the nephew of Thomas in CT as George Jr. is likely his brother.
-
Sorry for the error in previous message (I've corrected that in red print). Yes, Fanny Wilson was the person who registered James' birth in July 1884. I haven't yet found a son George for George Wilson & Fanny Greenaway but there certainly isn't a marriage between a George Wilson & Eliza Greenaway in Ireland.
I think that when Fanny Wilson registered James' death, whether by design or by accident, she gave as the father's name that of her husband, George Wilson, and for the mother her daughter Eliza with her own maiden name. By the time of the registration Eliza was probably already quite ill and it would be left to his grandparents to look after the baby. It's possible, although impossible to prove, that Eliza also suffered from tuberculosis and pregnancy would have weakened her further.
Back at the start Laura mentioned that this James Wilson is listed as Thomas Wilson's son but not mentioned in wife's obituary. Another bit of the story was that James was sent to America when an orphan. Fanny Wilson died when James was 4 months old so perhaps one of Eliza's sisters looked after the baby. George Wilson died in 1889 and it seems James went to America sometime after that date. It's entirely possible that James was never told much about his mother and indeed his father.
When I looked through PRONI's birth registration index, which it doesn't look like Laura did, I found the daughters I mentioned in reply #7 but continued from 1871 for quite a few years in case Fanny had a much younger child. I was surprised to find a Wilson-Greenaway birth for a James Wilson in 1884 (Fanny was 57 at the time) 13 years after last child and thought that George & Fanny were the parents. It was only when I looked at the actual certificate, and Eliza's death certificate, that things started to fall into place.
It's possible a baptismal record for infant James Wilson will list Eliza as his mother with no father's name listed.
One thing I don't understand is how Laura missed seeing James' birth in the actual certificates on Irish Genealogy since she was looking for a James Wilson born 1884 in that area :-\
-
From the other thread-
He may have had a sister named Mary who married Richard Mclelland and lived in New Jersey and also possibly a brother George. He had a nephew, James Wilson that he raised as a son from age 8 on. Family story is James was orphaned and emigrated to live with Thomas and his wife (Isabelle Gilpin) in CT.
Mary Wilson died 1873 of TB so Thomas Wilson's sister Mary died marry Richard McLelland and live in New Jersey. eileenwilson clears up the McClelland details in reply #5.
-
Laura- when you log back in here and read through the thread I've lots more information on Wilson family if you are interested.
-
Hi, as you can see, I haven't been around/logged-in for a while. But I'm back at it. I just returned from Ireland (Northern) and went to Ballynarry Road to "view" the Wilson home location. The house is no longer standing but it was important to at least walk the road. I met some locals who confirmed that Wilsons and Greenaways were from that area and live on the road.
The information you dug up on James is amazing. It makes sense as to why he was sent over to America and then raised by his Uncle (my great grandfather). So it seems that Eliza Wilson, daughter of George and Frances (Greenaway) likely had a child outside of marriage and died from that childbirth shortly after. And with both George and Frances' death within a few years, the remaining family sent James to his uncle.
You mentioned you have lots of Wison info, I"d love to hear/see what you have. I'll send a separate message with my email address. When I was in Ballynarry, I learned about a gentleman, William Wilson who ran the old Bannfoot Ferry up to age 88. I wonder if he fits in some how to my Wilsons?
Thank you so much and I look forward to hearing from you. Again, my apologies for the long delay.
Laura
-
Re: reply #11, yes, I'm all set on this. Have discovered that Mary was Isabella Gilpin's sister (Thomas Wilson's wife) and it was that Mary who married Richard McClelland and live in NJ.
Thanks,
Laura
-
Unfortunately since this topic is over a year old any information I found went to the recycle bin.
-
Yes, I completely understand. Unfortunately, my family was handed a few hardships this past year that tested our endurance and took me away from my research for a time. Luckily we survived it and I can now get back to it.
Again, thank you for your past assistance.
Laura
-
As I am also researching Wilsons in Tartaraghan, I had the parish records for Tartaraghan and Milltown researched more than 15 years ago. Looking at the Milltown records found, I see the birth of a daughter Jane on 18 September 1852, baptized 19 September 1852, born to George (weaver) and Frances Wilson of Ballynarry.
Son James born to same couple on 17 January 1854, baptized 22 January 1854.
Daughter Mary born on 15 September 1856, baptized 21 September 1856.
Daughter Elizabeth born on 16 January 1859, baptized 24 November 1859.
Both George & Frances died in 1884 which you knew. They are both buried at Milltown Church.
-
Hi
I actually was thinking for a time that George Wilson's death was in 1889 (Jan 10th). I see a death record for George Wilson in 1884 listed as a weaver, which of course makes sense, but I dismissed this one because in 1889 (he is listed as a laborer) the reporting party is a James Greenaway. That said, I'm not convinced I have it correct as the 1884 makes more sense and it makes more sense for my James Wilson being sent to live with my great grandfather Thomas in the US. You said you had seen Milltown records, so with those confirming 1884, I stand corrected. If you need any information on the Wilsons that came to the US, let me know, I'm happy to provide anything. Thank you, Laura.
-
I went back over the records, and believe this child is also from your group with the wife's name having been mistranscribed:
7 December 1851 (Milltown)
Anne daughter to George and Hanna Wilson (Weaver), Ballynarry (born 7 September 1851)
I also double checked what I had sent and it may well be that George did die in 1889:
2 November 1884
Frances Wilson Ballynarry 54 years
12 January 1889
George Wilson Ballynarry 60 years
Sorry for the confusion.
-
Thank you so much for this information. Just curious do you have anything suggesting where the Wilson's originally came from, or which Wilson was first in Northern Ireland? I suspect that they were Scottish. When I was in Armagh, my guide was adamant that Wilsons were Scottish origin and had likely come to Armagh during the Plantation years. I believe George's father's name was also George (1800 to 1877) but that is all I've been able to dig up. The local guide also indicated that as recently as 30 to 40 years ago, Greenaways lived on Ballynarry Road and had a slight "Scottish accent"; Greenaway of course being Frances' family.
Laura
-
Laura, I don't believe that all of the Wilson families in Tartaraghan were related; ie, some may have been English and some may have been Scottish. My husband only has 2% Scottish DNA from his latest estimate (which is, at best, a guess). One clue may be looking at their religion. If they followed the Presbyterians, I would hazard a guess that they were more likely to have been Scottish.
The one DNA match that hubby does have is to a Courtney/Wilson line who would have married around 1790. Anna Wilson was said to have been born in Scotland, daughter of John Wilson, born 1713 in Methlick, Aberdeenshire (birth year should likely have been somewhat later than this as he died in 1812 in Aberdeenshire). If you've done a DNA test on Ancestry, have a look and see if you have a match to a DKERSA who has provided this info.
-
Hi
Thank you, great point. My understanding is that when in the US, they were Methodist, at least my great grandfather who moved to Connecticut in the US. In Ireland I know that George and Frances were married at the Church of Milltown which I believe falls under the Church of Ireland. Both would indicate then a potential origin in England, I would think.
Anyway, thanks so much for your help. Good luck with your continued research!
Laura