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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: McFab on Saturday 20 August 22 05:01 BST (UK)
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I have some concerns about details of my Grandmother I am trying to confirm.
From my research my Grandmother, Susan Craig married John Thomas Whitfield in Glasgow in 1907, she died in Australia in 1956 and from the information on the death certificate;
Aged 67 - (YOB 1889)
Place of Birth – Scotland
Maiden Name – Craig
Both John's and Susan's death record show they were born in Scotland. They are both incorrect. John was born in Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire and moved to Glasgow around 1900-1901 with his Father, Mother and a brother Albert
I found a Susan Craig in the 1901 Ireland Census aged 15 years, (YOB - 1886) and in the 1911 Census and 21 years (YOB – 1890), I believe this is the correct family
I have a record from the Ireland, Civil Registration Birth Index for a Susan Craig showing a birth date of 1886, Coleraine, Ireland
So I have a 1901 Census and a Marriage record showing Susan age of 21 years that works in well with my research
The conflicting information is, I have an 1911 Census showing Susan aged 21 years still in Ireland 4 years after her marriage. I have a Death record that calculates back to YOB 1889, a Census record calculating back to 1890 or there abouts and a Death record showing she was Born in Scotland.
I have checked the ScottishPeople database and there are no correct Susan Craig records, I have also searched the RootsIreland database and there are 6 Baptism/Birth records for a Susan Craig, but I need to confirm I have the correct Susan Craig before I commit to a 24 hour AUD$26.00 search
Any information/input will be much appreciated
Regards
McFab
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What does the 1907 marriage record say about her parents?
Is she the Susan Whitfield in the 1911 Scotland census, aged 25? What does that say about her place of birth?
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1911 indexes Scotlands People shows a likely family in Govanhill
Thomas 34yrs
Susan 25 yrs
Sarah A 2 yrs
George H 0 yrs
Is that your family?
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The marriage records show Robert Craig - Joiner and Matilda Craig - M S Morrison, M S must be maiden surname
The 1911 Scottish Census is my family just before they left for Australia - John Thomas, Susan (Criag), Sarah Ann & George Henry
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This family?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Garvagh/Sarvagh/1519935/
In 1911 - no Susan
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Garvagh/Ballynameen/590796/
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Birth of Susan Craig
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1886/02607/1962598.pdf
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Have you mistaken 21 yr old Sarah for Susan in 1911?
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Matilda Morrison and Robert Craig marriage 1883
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1883/10939/5997610.pdf
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Firstly, I think I did get Sarah and Susan mixed and Secondly, thank you very much for the birth record, this confirms Susan was born in 1886 and the marriage record as well. I have also received a lot more help and information than I ever expected. My Grandmother's death record has her name as Susan Ann, so that has cleaned up that little query as well.
Thank you all very much for the help it's very much appreciated, it also helped with my oversite with the 1911 census, I also think I've been flicking through to many records and spending to many hours researching in one sitting.
Again thank you very much, you all been so helpful
McFab
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Glad to help - all seems good now. :)
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I have a bit of very sad information on the family if it is of interest.
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I would be very interested in any information that is relevant to my families history, I am getting on in years and need to document and pass on as much of our history as I can to the next and following generations before it is lost.
McFab
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The Craigs were Church of Ireland and attended St. Paul's in Garvagh- this photo taken in 2019.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/16132340@N07/49147783388
The new entrance (shown in photo) is at the back of the church away from the road- the reason being it was handier for Lord Garvagh, his family (the Cannings) and servants to come into the back from the adjoining big house to attend services. Garvagh House was demolished to build the former Garvagh High School and the last few holders of the title have been based in England since the house and estate were sold.
This transcription of the stones shows only 1 Craig headstone but may belong to a different Craig family-
https://www.cotyroneireland.com/graveyard/stpaulsgarvagh.html
The Craigs lived at Ballynameen, or Ballinameen, just south of St. Paul's-
https://www.townlands.ie/londonderry/coleraine/desertoghill/garvagh/ballynameen/
This is probably what it looked like when Susan Craig left-
https://www.nmni.com/collections/history/photographs/green-collection/hoyfmwag2936
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Now for the family.
Robert Craig (c1861 Co.Derry-aft.1911), labourer, m.(1883 Desertoghill COI) Matilda Morrison (c1861 Co.Antrim? or Co.Derry?-aft.1912)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1883/10939/5997610.pdf
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Garvagh/Sarvagh/1519935/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Garvagh/Ballynameen/590796/
Ballymoney Free Press, 7 May 1914: Constable Duffy charged John Doherty, Ballintemple, and Robert Craig, Ballinameen, with drunkenness on 20th and 16th December respectively. These cases had been adjourned for three months at a previous Court. Sergeant Patton stated that the …
Ballymoney Free Press, 1 June 1912: Sergeant Patton charged Robert Craig, Ballinameen, with drunkenness on the 19th July. There was also an adjourned case against defendant, and fines of and costs were …
House & garden at Ballinameen changed from Robert Craig in 1924
They had 6 children: Mary Jane, Susan, Sarah Margaret, Sarah Margaret, Robert John, Matilda.
1. Mary Jane Craig (26 Aug.1884 Garvagh) m.(2 Jan.1903 Errigal COI) Henry Blakeborough, horse trainer, Glasgow
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1884/02684/1988484.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1903/10222/5720741.pdf (Susan Craig witness)
Susan Craig probably moved to Glasgow because her sister Mary Jane was living there.
2. Susan Craig (26 Mar.1886 Garvagh)
3. Sarah Margaret Craig (5 Apr.1888 Garvagh-1 Mar.1890 Garvagh)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1888/02520/1933779.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1890/06120/4747249.pdf
5. Robert John Craig (18 Dec.1895 Garvagh-aft.1918)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1895/02198/1830744.pdf
Ballymoney Free Press, 29 Aug.1918: In a letter to his mother, Mrs. R. Craig, of Ballinameen, Private Robert Craig, South Lancashire Regiment, Beaston Camp, Cheshire, states that he has been transferred to another regiment
Ballymoney Free Press, 19 Sept.1918: Mrs. Robert Craig, Ballinameen, has also a letter from her son, Robert (Bedston Camp, Cheshire), who expects to be sent out to France again shortly
6. Matilda “Tillie” Craig (11 May 1901 Garvagh-aft.1919)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1901/01958/1755639.pdf
She had at least one child-
a. John Craig (6 July 1919 Balllinameen)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1919/01242/1516586.pdf
See next post for Sarah Margaret Craig.
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4. Sarah Margaret Craig (12 July 1890 Garvagh-aft.1912)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1890/02423/1902498.pdf
Belfast Newsletter, 12 June 1906: Acting Sergeant Patton, Garvagh, arrested a young girl Sarah Craig the charge of obtaining goods under false pretences. It appeared that girl, who was in the employment of Mr. Robert Stewart, Ballinameen, went the boot shop of Mr. Alexander M'Millan, Garvagh and stated that Mrs. …
Irish News & Belfast Morning News, 31 Oct.1906: The jury returned two bills against the girl Sarah Craig, aged 17 years, for having obtained boots and slippers under false pretences. Mr. William O’Kane, solicitor, Garvagh, pleaded guilty to the two charges on behalf of the accused, …
Northern Constitution, 3 Nov.1906: … looked after the house when the mother was out working. This woman had to provide for the entire household. Matilda Craig, Ballinameen, mother of the girl, said she was employed daily at anything she got to do. This was the only daughter she had at home. The others were in Scotland. She didn’t know anything of these transactions of her daughter. … There would be two indictments sent up against a girl named Sarah Craig for obtaining boots and slippers under false pretences.
Ballymena Weekly Telegraph, 1 June 1912: …Constabulary Barracks before Lieut.-Colonel Macausland, J.P., and Mr. P. Kerlin, J.P., a young girl named Sarah Craig, residing at Ballinameen, was charged by Sergeant Patton with being a lunatic. After hearing the evidence of her mother and the medical testimony of Dr. A. M. Adams, Their Worships ordered her committal to Londonderry Asylum …
She had at least two children-
a. James “Jamie” Craig (9 July 1909 Garvagh-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01606/1644717.pdf
Belfast Newsletter, 26 Nov.1910: Sergeant Patton, Garvagh, summoned Sarah Craig. Ballinameen, for neglecting and abandoning her child, James Craig, a manner to cause it unnecessary suffering. Their Worships after consultation sentenced defendant to a month’s imprisonment but subsequently reconsidered the decision, and eventually adjourned the case for four months.
Belfast Newsletter, 25 Feb.1911: The adjourned case of Sergeant Patton against Sarah Craig, Ballinameen, for neglect and cruelty to an illegitimate child came up for decision. Complainant said that during the period of adjournment the defendant had ceased stepping out at night and had improved generally in her treatment of the …
b. Fanny Craig (18 July 1911 Ballinameen)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1911/01522/1617812.pdf
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aghadowey, thank you very much for this amazing amount of information and detail of Susan's family, this sort of information is invaluable.
Regards
McFab
If I could ask a question about Susan and John Thomas Whitfield's children, Sarah Ann born 1908 & George Henry born 1910 in Lanarkshire, Glasgow. Is it unusual for births not to be registered in Scotland. I have searched Scottish People without success and failed to find any references, in Ancestry, Family Search or Find my Past, but they is a reference to their place of birth on the 1911 Census. I'm wondering if they may not have been registered
McFab
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Could these be the children albeit indexed on Scotlandspeople as Whitefield:
WHITEFIELD
SARAH ANN
F
1908
644/16 619
Govanhill
WHITEFIELD
GEORGE HENRY
M
1910
644/16 691
Govanhill
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scotmum, thank you very much, being a Whitfield and these being my Uncles and Aunties, I stayed within those parameters - (my Dad was the youngest of 5)
I didn't think to look at name variations. With the correct spelling in the 1911 Census, I just stuck with that. This information and the info supplied to me on Susan, completes that generation, the other 3 children were all born in Australia
I can't express how happy I am that you have found this.
McFab
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Wow thank you both for this invaluable information. I’m the Great Great Grandaughter of Mary Jane Craig and Harry Blakeborough (England) I’ve really struggled to make the connection as to why Harry was in Northern Ireland. I assumed he was working there due to his connection with horses and perhaps met Mary there however from reading this it appears that maybe they both spent time in Scotland and went back to Ireland to be wed before moving back to England to start a family . They both died in Durham which is my home town.
I am so grateful to find out more about Mary Janes family as I havent been unable to uncover a lot so this is priceless thank you
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This information has been useful for me too - thank you for doing the research;
I am a great-grandson of Mary Craig living in NW England, one of 3 from her eldest son, George Richard who sadly died as PoW in 1943 after the fall of Singapore in 1942.
He was L.Bdr. in R.Artillery and had previously survived Dunkirk.
His only child, my Mum was born in Bolton, married in Birmingham, and still lives independantly, in her 90's.She has told me of memories visiting her Grandma in Co. Durham when she was little.
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Hi, I am also connected to the Craig family of Garvagh and have been doing some recent research. My connection is via Elizabeth Craig, sister of Robert who married Matilda Morrison and therefore Aunt of Mary Jane Blakeboroigh and Susan Whitfield. Happy for you to reach out for more info.
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Hi, Wildwinnie
My connection is via Elizabeth Craig, sister of Robert who married Matilda Morrison and therefore Aunt of Mary Jane Blakeboroigh and Susan Whitfield.
Might this be the marriage of your Elizabeth Craig?
Elizabeth Craig to William Nodwell - 27 December 1886 at Desertoghill Parish Church. One of the witnesses an Annie Craig.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1886/10848/5960803.pdf
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Thank you for the reply. Yes it is. That is Elizabeth’s first marriage. She then went on to marry James Dempster although they reappear as Dempsey in various records.
Mr Nodwell appears to have died from an accident. Would love to know more as there was an inquest held.
I have also been unable to find out what became of her second husband James as he is down as a tramp of no fixed residence by the time her youngest daughter Annie is born.
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Mr Nodwell appears to have died from an accident. Would love to know more as there was an inquest held.
Belfast Newsletter, 9 Aug.1888: On Monday an inquest was held in the Temperance Hall, Garvagh, by Dr. W. H. Caldwell, coroner, upon the body of William Nodwell, a plasterer, who was killed by falling from a ladder on Saturday evening, whilst working at First Garvagh Presbyterian …
Coleraine Chronicle, 18 Aug.1888: FATAL ACCIDIENT IN GARVAGH.—On Saturday week William Nodwell, plasterer, a native of Coleraine, while working at First Garvagh Presbyterian Church, fell a considerable distance from …
Note: this is the old First Garvagh Presbyterian Church which was on the site where Garvagh Library now stands. The old graveyard is still at the site and in use.
She then went on to marry James Dempster although they reappear as Dempsey in various records.
One of the few records, if not the only, where the surname appears as Dempster is the marriage but the family were Dempsey. (Dempster is just a variation of Dempsey)
See next post for James Dempsey.
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Belfast Newsletter, 26 Nov.1910: … magistrates sitting at Garvagh … Sergeant Patton summoned James Dempsey, Mettican, and William …
Ballymoney Free Press, 7 Sept.1911: … fined for drunkenness on recent dates: James Montgomery, Ballynacally, 2s 6d; H. O’Kane, Tirkeeran, 2s6d; and James Dempsey, Mettican, 2s6d. Adjourned cases against Thomas Watley, Ballintemple, and Alexader Campbell, Tirkeeran, were disposed of …
Ballymena Observer, 10 Nov.1911: … Constable O’Brian charged James Dempsey, of Mettican, with drunkenness on the _th October. Fined 2s and costs. …
Ballymoney Free Press, 18 Jan.1912: … and James Dempsey, tenants of cottages in Mettican Glebe and Kilrea, was read, complaining of the state of the cottages. The clerk said these cottages came …
Ballymoney Free Press, 3 Apr.1913: … For drunkenness. on St. Patrick's Day, Richard Kane, Tirkeeran , was fined … and costs; James Dempsey, Mettican (22nd inst.) was fined 2s and costs (second offence) …
Ballymoney Free Press, 2 Oct.1913: … James Dempsey, Mettican, and Thomas Torrens, Carnrallagh, were summoned for drunkenness. A fine of 2a 6d was inflicted in each case. …
Ballymoney Free Press, 4 Dec.1913: … Sergeant Patton summoned Jas. Mettican, for being drunk, and a 1s was imposed. Same complainant charged Dempsey, jun.. Mettican, with drunk and disorderly. A fine of was imposed.
Ballymoney Free Press, 7 May 1914: Sergeant Patton preferred a similar charge against James Dempsey, Mettican, the offence taking place on 16th April. This being the defendant’s third “time up” within the past twelve months, a fine …
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Thanks, Aghadowey
That makes for hard reading! Tough times and I particularly feel for his poor wife Elizabeth and his children. Despite the poor start, some of his descendents have done ok for themselves.
Two more questions:
1. Do we know what became of James Dempsey? His wife Elizabeth died in 1926 having survived the death of their son in WW1 from wounds and her eldest daughter dying in childbirth a couple of years before her own death.
2. Is James Dempsey in anyway related to William H Dempsey of Ballinameen?
Many thanks for any help you can provide.
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...second husband James as he is down as a tramp of no fixed residence by the time her youngest daughter Annie is born.
23 December 1895
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1896/02187/1827487.pdf
Also James - 18 March 1891
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1891/02403/1896048.pdf
..and Mary - 25 May 1893
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1893/02308/1865192.pdf
1911 census at Mettican Glebe
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Garvagh/Mettican_Glebe/590967/
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Eldest child of James Dempsey & Elizabeth Craig was Eliza (also known as Lizzie)-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1889/02467/1916173.pdf
1. Do we know what became of James Dempsey? His wife Elizabeth died in 1926 having survived the death of their son in WW1 from wounds and her eldest daughter dying in childbirth a couple of years before her own death.
A son-in-law also died in WWI. To be honest I haven't bothered looking for James Dempsey after son died.
2. Is James Dempsey in anyway related to William H Dempsey of Ballinameen?
Some William Dempsey details on this thread- see from reply #24 onwards
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=524559.18
Your James Dempsey gave his father as James (a farmer) when he married- farmer may be a bit optimistic and it's more likely he was a labourer. James' residence was Garvagh but that may not have been where his father lived. It's intersting to note that James is a widower according to the marriage. It's hard to pin down his age since he isn't easily found in 1901 or 1911.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1889/10722/5908966.pdf
William Henry Dempsey was born at Upperlands in 1885, son of James Carson Dempsey & Elizabeth Canning- at that time his father James was in Scotland-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1885/02639/1973209.pdf
James Carson Dempsey was born c1861 & his father was a James Dempsey who died 1880 at Rasharkin- James Carson Dempsey of Rasharkin registered the death-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1880/06480/4864371.pdf
The two families may have been related, although in this case DNA may not show the results you would hope for.
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Thanks again, Aghadowey
I’ve tried to find his first marriage too but could find no details and I’ve tried to find a death registration for him, but again no luck.
I’ve read through the posts on WH Dempsey, thanks. This caught my attention as I’ve seen his name appear on a document as the father of a child born out of wedlock to one of James Dempsey’s daughters about 2 years prior to his marriage to McAtamney. I was therefore wondering if they were far out cousins in some way.
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Will let you know if I find any more details in my files.
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This information has been useful for me too - thank you for doing the research;
I am a great-grandson of Mary Craig living in NW England, one of 3 from her eldest son, George Richard who sadly died as PoW in 1943 after the fall of Singapore in 1942.
He was L.Bdr. in R.Artillery and had previously survived Dunkirk.
His only child, my Mum was born in Bolton, married in Birmingham, and still lives independantly, in her 90's.She has told me of memories visiting her Grandma in Co. Durham when she was little.
Wow ! Love to meet you! Sounds like we are related ! I am also the great granddaughter of Mary Craig. My nana was Beatrice. She sadly died a year before I was born. I do know of George and I know about his story of being a POW in Burma. He’s been well remembered in our family and we have several photos of him. I’d be happy to share them with you.
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This information has been useful for me too - thank you for doing the research;
I am a great-grandson of Mary Craig living in NW England, one of 3 from her eldest son, George Richard who sadly died as PoW in 1943 after the fall of Singapore in 1942.
He was L.Bdr. in R.Artillery and had previously survived Dunkirk.
His only child, my Mum was born in Bolton, married in Birmingham, and still lives independently, in her 90's.She has told me of memories visiting her Grandma in Co. Durham when she was little.
Wow ! Love to meet you! Sounds like we are related ! I am also the great granddaughter of Mary Craig. My nana was Beatrice. She sadly died a year before I was born. I do know of George and I know about his story of being a POW in Burma. He’s been well remembered in our family and we have several photos of him. I’d be happy to share them with you.
Hi,
Yes definitely - I recall meeting 'Auntie Beattie' several times on visits to my Mum, and going to her home on the day of her daughter's wedding, that we attended c. 50 yrs. ago.. To my knowledge she had 4 children, and my Mum still writes to one of her sons in the Durham area - ( we could possibly connect via him if the Chat function is not available here.)
So pleased to find some more information from my Mum's NE ancestry which was always a bit of an unknown due to the circumstances.
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Thank you to 'McFab' for starting this thread and to those who have provided information around her close family.
'LockeyR22' and myself are great grandchildren of her sister Mary, and we have been able to now share information and a few precious photos of Mary in Co. Durham taken over 80 yrs ago, plus various highlights and successes we are aware of among her descendants - in a wide range of locations around UK, Ire and beyond.
Much appreciated.
The horse-trainer she married (Harry Blakeborough) offers further family history challenges that will also hopefully bring more answers at some stage!
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What a lovely update to a thread :).