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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: JDGen on Monday 15 August 22 14:37 BST (UK)

Title: First Name of Witness
Post by: JDGen on Monday 15 August 22 14:37 BST (UK)
Please could anyone see if they can read the first name of this witness on a marriage certificate?

[img]

The surname is Davenport but I can't quite make out the first name.

Thanks,

Jean
Title: Re: First Name of Witness
Post by: Neale1961 on Monday 15 August 22 14:59 BST (UK)
Possibly “David”.
I am not confident.
Title: Re: First Name of Witness
Post by: JDGen on Monday 15 August 22 15:20 BST (UK)
Hmm, it could be David - and it is a family name although a couple of generations later.

Unfortunately, it's not great resolution which makes it more difficult.

Thanks for the input, I'm trying to build a picture of this family so it will help.

Jean
Title: Re: First Name of Witness
Post by: Milliepede on Monday 15 August 22 16:13 BST (UK)
Yes tricky one.  Could it be Saml  :-\
Title: Re: First Name of Witness
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 15 August 22 16:28 BST (UK)
When/where was the marriage?

Can you provide a larger snip please as it looks a bit cramped?

Annie
Title: Re: First Name of Witness
Post by: JDGen on Monday 15 August 22 16:35 BST (UK)
Hi Annie,

Here is a snip with more information - the marriage took place at St Peter's, Bolton, Lancashire on 8th June 1808.

Thanks,

Jean

Title: Re: First Name of Witness
Post by: JDGen on Monday 15 August 22 16:37 BST (UK)
Yes tricky one.  Could it be Saml  :-\

Yes it could also be Saml.

Thanks for the ideas.

Jean
Title: Re: First Name of Witness
Post by: Rena on Monday 15 August 22 16:44 BST (UK)
Sticking my neck out = I definitely don't see David - I see Saml.

The curlicue at the end of the given name is usually the flourish at the end of "David"
but I definitely see  "S" a m l
Title: Re: First Name of Witness
Post by: Gadget on Monday 15 August 22 16:47 BST (UK)
Sticking my neck out = I definitely don't see David - I see Saml.

I was playing around with it being an S but couldn't work out the rest. I think that might be it, Rena and Millepede

Add - a snip partially cleared
Title: Re: First Name of Witness
Post by: bearkat on Monday 15 August 22 17:05 BST (UK)
Lancs OPC has transcribed it as James.
Title: Re: First Name of Witness
Post by: JDGen on Monday 15 August 22 18:21 BST (UK)
I think I'm leaning towards Saml - perhaps the Lancs OPC transcriber also had problems!

Thanks for all the help,

Jean
Title: Re: First Name of Witness
Post by: Rena on Monday 15 August 22 18:38 BST (UK)
I turned this image into a negative view using the Irfan View programme.  There is no "e" in the signature.

You have to make a conscious effort to get the loops right on a capital letter "J" and the capital letter "S" but this person was quite confident and didn't bother with the top loop.   If the writer intended to sign with a "J" then he should have put the pen on the paper and made a left hand stroke, then moved upwards to a point and then back down again.

The writer didn't do that he went straight up to the top of the page and quickly brought the pen down again - he wasn't bothered with any loops at the top of his name, he was more bothered that his initial had plenty of loops at the bottom.

 I still think it's Saml
Title: Re: First Name of Witness
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 15 August 22 18:47 BST (UK)
I have a question, why would both witnesses be male?

Did women not have a bridesmaid as a witness  :-\

Annie
Title: Re: First Name of Witness
Post by: JDGen on Monday 15 August 22 19:19 BST (UK)
I think the witnesses vary.  Sometimes it's the parish clerks who are both male, other times relatives who are either male or female.  I had considered both male and female witnesses but couldn't see either obviously but if anyone has female name ideas I think they are absolutely valid.

Jean
Title: Re: First Name of Witness
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 15 August 22 21:41 BST (UK)
JD, it was an observation I thought I'd throw in.

Have you managed to find other Davenport baptisms which may help with who the witness was, likely a sibling?

I'm on the fence with a name as the last letter does look like a 'd'  :-\

Annie
Title: Re: First Name of Witness
Post by: Milliepede on Monday 15 August 22 21:48 BST (UK)
Yes I was just thinking the same, he could be a brother. 
Title: Re: First Name of Witness
Post by: Gadget on Monday 15 August 22 22:15 BST (UK)
JD, it was an observation I thought I'd throw in.

Have you managed to find other Davenport baptisms which may help with who the witness was, likely a sibling?

I'm on the fence with a name as the last letter does look like a 'd'  :-\

Annie

I did some searches earlier but nothing jumped out! 

Was John of Bolton?
Title: Re: First Name of Witness
Post by: Treetotal on Monday 15 August 22 22:58 BST (UK)
Yes tricky one.  Could it be Saml  :-\

That's what I see.
Carol
Title: Re: First Name of Witness
Post by: JDGen on Saturday 20 August 22 11:36 BST (UK)
Thanks to everyone for the observations and sorry for the delayed response.

I'm trying to confirm with a bit more certainty that this John and Ann are my 4xggrandparents by seeing if I can build a picture of the families. 

What I do know is that Thomas Davenport married Jane Davies 20 Oct 1833 at St Peter, Bolton and these are my 3xggrandparents. It's a while since I've looked at this so I've only just looked at the parish record only to see that one of the witnesses is shown as Tho Davenport!  Unless it is an error that seems to put a spanner in the works!

Thanks,

Jean