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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: maryalex on Monday 15 August 22 11:00 BST (UK)
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The attachment is an extract from a 1900 New Jersey "Report of Death" showing the forename? of the deceased's mother. Any suggestions as to what her forename may have been will be welcome because there is a good chance that she was my great-great-grandmother.
The deceased is known to have born in Co. Roscommon. The full Report of Death shows his father's name as James Higgins.
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This might be easier to read
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Yes, it is easier to read. Thank you.
[I had already come to one tentative conclusion about what the barely legible forename is.]
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Hi
Do you know Dominic's age when he died?
Regards
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Is it not a surname? Weir?
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Hi
Do you know Dominic's age when he died?
Regards
Entry says born circa 1842 * aged 58
Agree that it begins with a W
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I'd say it read Weese or Weece
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Is it not a surname? Weir?
It could be a surname, I suppose. I assumed it was a forename because the name of the deceased's father is shown on the report of Death as James [his forename].
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I'd say it read Weese or Weece
Thank you. You have all convinced me that the name begins with W and I now have to consider the possibility that it is a surname, not a forename.
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Possibly Wise.
Carol
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James could be a family name, of course.
But it's true that if the father's given name appears as “Name of Father” then there's every reason to expect a given name for Mother too, especially where it doesn't say Maiden Name.
What is the practice on other instances of the same form, perhaps in the same clerk's hand?
If it is an Irish forename, how about Ulna?
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James could be a family name, of course.
But it's true that if the father's given name appears as “Name of Father” then there's every reason to expect a given name for Mother too, especially where it doesn't say Maiden Name.
What is the practice on other instances of the same form, perhaps in the same clerk's hand?
If it is an Irish forename, how about Ulna?
By checking one of the “pay sites”, and searching for “report of death”, “New Jersey” and “1900”, I only found two other (unrelated to Higgins) reports of death in family trees. (I could not find reports of death unless I checked family trees.) They had father’s full name and mother’s full (married) name.
Would it be possible to reverse the image (sorry I don’t know the correct term), please, to show white paper with black ink? It might be easier to read. :-\
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I found several more under documents and screenshots:
Only father’s surname was written down when a surname was included (example: John Smith, Jane Smith). Otherwise, they just had first name and in one case, first name and middle initial.
So, it is possible that maryalex’s image could be a first name.
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Inverted image
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An outside possible ~
There is such a name as Wera, a form of Vera. However, I think it's originally Polish :-\
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Or how about Wine? I've never seen it before, but could it be a variant of Winnie, with the spelling more or less aligned to the first part of the full name Winifred?
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ShaunJ, thank you for inverting the image.
This is a stretch, but keeping in mind Irish naming patterns…
I found an online tree for Dominic. He had two daughters, the second one was named Winifred. Is it possible that the word in question could be Wini or Wine (not how I would spell it, but…) - putting down her nickname instead of Winifred.
Just a thought. :-\
You beat me to it, arthurk!
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Is it possible that the word in question could be Wini or Wine (not how I would spell it, but…) - putting down her nickname instead of Winifred.
It must be something like that. It looks like Wine or Wire. Possibly Ware.
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According to the tree, Dominic’s wife was Catherine and her parents are unknown.
Dominic’s children:
Thomas Higgins - 1st son (should be named after the father’s father, but isn’t)
Bridget Higgins - 1st daughter (should be named after the mother’s mother, but name unknown)
James Higgins - 2nd son (should be named after the mother’s father - Dominic’s father was named James)
Winifred Higgins - 2nd daughter (should be named after the father’s mother, possibly was?)
Dominic Higgins - 3rd son (should be named after the father, which he was)
Patrick Higgins - 4th son (should be named after the father’s eldest brother, but it looks like Dominic was the oldest child)
John Higgins - 5th son
Dominic and Catherine kind of followed the naming pattern, I guess? [Naming pattern according to one website]
Note: most of my Irish ancestors did not follow the pattern so I’m not surprised to see that Dominic may not have done so as well.
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Daughter Winnie and mother Wine or Wini make a lot of sense to me. People spelled things as they heard them.
According to the tree, Dominic’s wife was Catherine and her parents are unknown.
Dominic’s children:
Thomas Higgins - 1st son (should be named after the father’s father, but isn’t)
Bridget Higgins - 1st daughter (should be named after the mother’s mother, but name unknown)
James Higgins - 2nd son (should be named after the mother’s father - Dominic’s father was named James)
Winifred Higgins - 2nd daughter (should be named after the father’s mother, possibly was?)
The 1st two children might have been named after Catherine's parents.
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What is the practice on other instances of the same form, perhaps in the same clerk's hand?
If it is an Irish forename, how about Ulna?
Ulna is one more possibility.
I haven't seen any other instances of the same form. The extract I sent with my original enquiry was from a document provided by a DNA match who can't decipher the deceased's mother's name either.
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Inverted image
Thanks.
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From the same form. For comparison of the capital W (identical), the i without a dot, and the final e (
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Are all final e's like that? The last letter of the mother's name is fairly similar to the 'e' in the middle of Ireland, and I suggested Wine rather than Wini because it has a loop.
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I think that is the only word with e at the end. Unlike all the other e's
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/mediaui-viewer/collection/1030/tree/156945921/person/272135759446/media/0c0322ea-5800-4381-9136-b0562ef3e2c0
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There's 'he' in Section 11, just below the mystery name, and that has an 'e' like the one in 'White'.
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Thank you everyone for the helpful suggestions. It would be convenient if the hard to read name on the Report of Death is Winnie or similar.
In correspondence with a Gedmatch DNA match from New Jersey we agreed that our relationship was through Higgins ancestors from Co. Roscommon.
Her great-great-grandfather Dominic Higgins who went to the USA and my great-grandfather James Higgins who came to England were both born in Co. Roscommon in the 1840s. Her great-great-grandfather's 1900 New Jersey Report of Death shows his father's name as James presumably Higgins. My great-grandfather's 1876 English marriage certificate shows his father's name as James Higgins deceased.
We think they were probably brothers which would make the match and I 3C1R. This is consistent with the amount of shared DNA between the match and her close relatives who have been tested and me and my close relatives who have been tested.
My great-grandfather James Higgins named two of his sons Dominic and named a daughter Winifred. The match's great-great-grandfather Dominic Higgins also named a daughter Winifred. I did think that Dominic and Winifred were fairly uncommon forenames because there are no other Dominics or Winifreds in the families of my ancestors from Co. Galway or Co. Mayo but they are possibly not uncommon names in Co. Roscommon.
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There's 'he' in Section 11, just below the mystery name, and that has an 'e' like the one in 'White'.
So there is - well spotted !
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There is a James Higgins with a wife Winifred Drury having children in Tibohine-Fairymount in Roscommon around 1839. That might be worth keeping a note of.
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There is a James Higgins with a wife Winifred Drury having children in Tibohine-Fairymount in Roscommon around 1839. That might be worth keeping a note of.
Could you tell me where you got that information?
I have an accidental subscription to Find My Past currently and cannot find any baptisms for years around 1839 with parents James Higgins & Winifred Drury there. Then again, I cannot find my paternal grandfather's 1874 baptism in Co. Galway, details of which I already have, but Find My Past do have my maternal grandmother's 1875 baptism in Co. Mayo.
If your information is from RootsIreland, I could take out a one-day subscription with the option of upgrading to a one-month subscription.
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Yes, it was rootsireland. There are a number of Higgins/Drury couples in that parish, but I could not find other children of that (James/Winifred) couple, though of course that doesn't mean there were none.
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Apologies if this has already been mentioned but have you tried searching (in the U.S.) for Dominic’s possible siblings? I thought an Irish ancestor settled in Canada on his own. RootsChatters and I eventually found out his parents and several siblings also settled in and around his town.
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Yes, it was rootsireland. There are a number of Higgins/Drury couples in that parish, but I could not find other children of that (James/Winifred) couple, though of course that doesn't mean there were none.
Thanks. I feel a short subscription to RootsIreland coming on.
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Apologies if this has already been mentioned but have you tried searching (in the U.S.) for Dominic’s possible siblings? I thought an Irish ancestor settled in Canada on his own. RootsChatters and I eventually found out his parents and several siblings also settled in and around his town.
I have not yet searched for possible siblings of Dominic but probably will eventually..