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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: SummerCrush on Friday 12 August 22 23:50 BST (UK)

Title: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Friday 12 August 22 23:50 BST (UK)
we know Eliza Eddy was born 1861 in Hotwells, Bristol, her father was Thomas Eddy {Labourer} but the woman who I thought was her mother Sarah Hannah Chapple isn't her mother after all due to her marrying a Bristol man called Albert Eddy.

Eliza Eddy married my 3 times Great Grandfather Alfred John Norris{born 1866} and they married in May 1888 at the Parish Church in Bedminster, Bristol. {when they got married Alfred was aged 22 and Eliza was aged 27 and they were both living at 22 Stanley Street}

Alfred John Norris's father was Richard John Norris{Deceased at time of their marriage} and he was a Brush Maker.

we believe Eliza Eddy died October 1936 in Taunton, Somerset, England.

we know Eliza and Alfred had a daughter called Eliza{born 1891 in Bristol} and they had a son called Herbert John Norris

Herbert John Norris {born January 1904 Bristol and died December 1988 Burnham War Memorial Hospital, Burnham-on-Sea, Somerset, England} and he married a lady called Lilian Jane Andrews{born 20 Sep 1902 Bristol, Gloucestershire, England and died June 1980 in Braunton Road, Bristol, Gloucestershire, England}

Eliza Norris{the daughter to Eliza and Alfred Norris} married Thomas EJ Cockle and they had 1 son together Donald Cockle and he married Amy B Collins{both now Deceased}

Donald Cockle and Amy B Collins had 1 Daughter and 1 son {both children are still alive and living}.

Donald and Amy's Daughter married and they had 2 daughters and a son{all the children are still alive and living}
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 13 August 22 00:19 BST (UK)
Birth March qtr 1861 Clifton - mmn Chapple as per GRO online
1857 marriage in Clifton - Sarah Hannah Chapple/Albert Eddy

Do you have Eliza on any census with a father Thomas?
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 13 August 22 00:33 BST (UK)
Wonder if she was a bit economical with the truth re her age.

1871 has an Eliza Eddy b 1852 Bristol
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Saturday 13 August 22 01:38 BST (UK)
Birth March qtr 1861 Clifton - mmn Chapple as per GRO online
1857 marriage in Clifton - Sarah Hannah Chapple/Albert Eddy

Do you have Eliza on any census with a father Thomas?

No I can't find any census with Thomas Eddy living with an Eliza or Sarah Hannah Chapple in Bristol but we think Thomas Eddy was original from Cornwall although that's never been confirmed by family members.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Saturday 13 August 22 01:40 BST (UK)
Wonder if she was a bit economical with the truth re her age.

1871 has an Eliza Eddy b 1852 Bristol

I have no idea re: truth about age

but unless Albert's first name Thomas or middle name Thomas has been left off the marriage record for his marriage to Sarah Hannah Chapple then I can't see it being the right couple for Eliza's parents but family members have confirmed Eliza's year of birth and place of place of birth so I know that is 100% correct.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: wivenhoe on Saturday 13 August 22 02:05 BST (UK)


NORRIS-EDDY marriage certificate, 1888.....what names are recorded for witnesses?
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: Comberton on Saturday 13 August 22 02:45 BST (UK)
1861
www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7VL-D56

Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: Comberton on Saturday 13 August 22 02:53 BST (UK)
Father on 1857 marriage is Philip Chapple

1841
www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7MZ-FYN
1851
www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGB4-2JR
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Saturday 13 August 22 02:56 BST (UK)
In 1861, there is a child Philip born 1858

There is a marriage 1879 St Paul’s Bedminster
Philip Eddy 21 yrs Labourer father Thomas Eddy labourer (deceased)
Mary Ann Britt 18 yrs father William Britt
Witnesses William King and Susan ?

There is a death in 1858 for an infant Thomas Eddy, Clifton but I can’t see a corresponding birth to check mmn.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Saturday 13 August 22 03:01 BST (UK)
I have found the birth for Thomas - 1857

It is odd
September quarter 1857 Bristol mmn Chappel

December quarter 1857 Clifton mmn Chapple


Church register shows the burial for the child Thomas Eddy March 1858 Hotwells
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: Dundee on Saturday 13 August 22 04:58 BST (UK)


NORRIS-EDDY marriage certificate, 1888.....what names are recorded for witnesses?

Henry COLEMAN (signed), and Alice COOMBES (made her mark)

Debra  :)
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: Dundee on Saturday 13 August 22 05:09 BST (UK)
By 1867 Albert was gone and Sarah was in a relationship with Henry COLEMAN.  I think it is a case of the children not knowing the name of their father.

COLEMAN, HENRY  EDDY
Mother's maiden surname: CHAPEL     
GRO Reference: 1867  D Quarter in BRISTOL  Volume 06A  Page 10

Debra  :)
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: Rosinish on Saturday 13 August 22 05:19 BST (UK)
Well done Dundee, brilliant analysis!  ;)

Annie
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Saturday 13 August 22 07:32 BST (UK)
Oh that’s a good find Debra.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Saturday 13 August 22 07:44 BST (UK)
There is this death

December 1877 Bristol
Thomas Eddy 44 yrs born abt 1833

This fits with the age of Albert in 1861.
I can’t see a death for Albert.

The surname Eddy is popular in Cornwall which may be where that idea comes from. However Albert (who may be Thomas) was born Bath.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: wivenhoe on Saturday 13 August 22 08:27 BST (UK)

GRO births
NORRIS, Eliza                 mms.     EDDY 
1890  SepQ           Bedminster   Vol 05C  Page 663

NORRIS, Alfred John          mms  EDDY 
1893  JunQ            Bedminster  Vol 05C  Page 691

NORRIS, Herbert John     mms     EDDY 
1904  MarQ           Bristol          Vol 06A  Page 28

GRO death
NORRIS, Alfred John    age     0 
1894  MarQ            Bedminster  Vol 05C  Page 556

Is this your family?

Ancestry England  Census 1891   @ 5 Myrtle Street Bedminster
NORRIS Alfred John     25y    coal miner           b. Bedminster  Somerset
NORRIS Eliza              30y                              b. Holwell Clifton, Gloucestershire,
NORRIS Eliza                8m   dau.                    b. Bedminster Somerset
NORRIS Eliza               21y   sister laundress    b. Bedminster Somerset

Ancestry England Census 1901     @     35 Gladstone St Bedminster Bristol
NORRIS A                   35y  coal miner hewer    b. Bedminster Bristol
NORRIS Eliza               40y                              b. Bedminster Bristol
NORRIS Eliza              10y    dau                      b. Bedminster Bristol


Ancestry England Census 1911     @ 24 Brawnton St Bedminster Bristol Gloucestershire
NORRIS Alfred John       46y  engineman below ground        b. Bristol
NORRIS Eliza                 50y                                              b. Bristol
NORRIS Eliza                 20y    cigarette packer                   b. Bristol
NORRIS Herbert John       7y    school                                 b. Bristol
HAYMAN Herbert John    33y     boarder  single                    b  Sth Molton N.Devon
 

Ancestry Bristol England Non-conformist Baptism  Weslyan British Road Ebernezer
NORRIS Herbert John  born 17 Jan 1904  bapt. 11 Feb 1904
parents Alfred John & Eliza         35 Gladstone St Bedminster

I suspect that there is easy use of "ditto", so birthplace for Eliza, 1891, Holwell Clifton, Gloucestershire, might be useful in locating other EDDYs.
 
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Saturday 13 August 22 08:43 BST (UK)
1871 2521 /9/10
Thomas Eddy, unmarried, Mason’s Labourer b Bath. He is lodging in Bristol and has been transcribed as 28 yrs but it could read 38 yrs.

Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: wivenhoe on Saturday 13 August 22 09:05 BST (UK)
Ancestry Bristol Church of England marriages

St Philip and Jacob Gloucestershire   14 Oct 1888
COLEMAN Henry Eddy    21y bachelor  labourer  res. Cheese Lane
Father:  Henry John COLEMAN   labourer

PARSONS Elizabeth        22y spinster                res. Cheese Lane  (X)
Father: Sidney PARSONS, labourer (deceased)

Witnesses      Alfred John NORRIS    Eliza NORRIS        all others give signature.

I would read this to mean that   "Father:  Henry John COLEMAN   labourer"  is alive at 1888.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Saturday 13 August 22 09:06 BST (UK)
Good find  :)
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: Comberton on Saturday 13 August 22 09:20 BST (UK)
Marriage
Dec 1877 Bristol
Henry John Coleman
Sarah Hannah Eddy

Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Saturday 13 August 22 09:23 BST (UK)
Marriage
Dec 1877 Bristol
Henry John Coleman
Sarah Hannah Eddy

The same quarter as the death of Thomas Eddy
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: wivenhoe on Saturday 13 August 22 09:47 BST (UK)


Ancestry Bristol Church of England baptisms  St Nicholas

22 Jan 1873
COLEMAN Henry Eddy  parents Henry & Sarah Hannah  labourer   15 Back Street
COLEMAN John  Eddie  parents Henry & Sarah Hannah  labourer   15 Back Street

also
QUICK William Walter  parents Walter & Agnes  wood-carver         15 Back Street
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: Comberton on Saturday 13 August 22 10:45 BST (UK)
1871   image shows 15 Back Street
www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5TY-W49
1881
www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27X-6B92
In same household in 1881 a Chappell family
www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27X-6TCS
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Saturday 13 August 22 10:53 BST (UK)


NORRIS-EDDY marriage certificate, 1888.....what names are recorded for witnesses?

Henry Coleman and Alice Coombes were the witnesses at the marriage of Alfred John Norris and Eliza Eddy
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Saturday 13 August 22 11:00 BST (UK)
1861
www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7VL-D56

Thank-You for this so Thomas's full name must have been Thomas Albert Eddy then
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Saturday 13 August 22 11:01 BST (UK)
1871   image shows 15 Back Street
www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5TY-W49
1881
www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27X-6B92
In same household in 1881 a Chappell family
www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27X-6TCS

Thank-You again for this its much appreciated.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Saturday 13 August 22 11:06 BST (UK)
I have found the birth for Thomas - 1857

It is odd
September quarter 1857 Bristol mmn Chappel

December quarter 1857 Clifton mmn Chapple


Church register shows the burial for the child Thomas Eddy March 1858 Hotwells

yeah I found this record a while back which is why it confused me with the wedding certificate for Alfred and Eliza {as Thomas Eddy Eliza's father is not classed as deceased on that paper work} so could they have had another son?
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Saturday 13 August 22 11:10 BST (UK)
By 1867 Albert was gone and Sarah was in a relationship with Henry COLEMAN.  I think it is a case of the children not knowing the name of their father.

COLEMAN, HENRY  EDDY
Mother's maiden surname: CHAPEL     
GRO Reference: 1867  D Quarter in BRISTOL  Volume 06A  Page 10

Debra  :)

well definitely on the marriage certificate for Alfred John Norris and Eliza Eddy the father listed for Eliza is Thomas Eddy{Labourer}. Alfred's father is listed as ''Richard John Norris'' who is classed as Deceased on their wedding certificate.

I believe Alfred's father married a woman called Jane Baber.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Saturday 13 August 22 11:18 BST (UK)
There is this death

December 1877 Bristol
Thomas Eddy 44 yrs born abt 1833

This fits with the age of Albert in 1861.
I can’t see a death for Albert.

The surname Eddy is popular in Cornwall which may be where that idea comes from. However Albert (who may be Thomas) was born Bath.

there are 4 deaths for an Albert Eddy in Bristol ...

Albert Eddy 1903 - 1922
Albert E Eddy 1886 - 1945
Albert Henry 1923 - 1981
Albert George {don't know what year he was born but he died in 2015}
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Saturday 13 August 22 11:18 BST (UK)
It may be that they registered the birth twice for some reason.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Saturday 13 August 22 11:19 BST (UK)
There is this death

December 1877 Bristol
Thomas Eddy 44 yrs born abt 1833

This fits with the age of Albert in 1861.
I can’t see a death for Albert.

The surname Eddy is popular in Cornwall which may be where that idea comes from. However Albert (who may be Thomas) was born Bath.

there are 4 deaths for an Albert Eddy in Bristol ...

Albert Eddy 1903 - 1922
Albert E Eddy 1886 - 1945
Albert Henry 1923 - 1981
Albert George {don't know what year he was born but he died in 2015}

But none of those fit with Albert born abt 1833.

Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: wivenhoe on Saturday 13 August 22 11:47 BST (UK)

I think this is Sarah, and born Ireland in Census

1859 Alfred CANTLE marr. Sarah POOLE   Clifton St Andrew Gloucestershire.

Son Alfred CANTLE bapt 26 Aug 1860, father moulder. Parish Register Clifton St Andrew
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Saturday 13 August 22 11:53 BST (UK)

I think this is Sarah, and born Ireland in Census

1859 Alfred CANTLE marr. Sarah POOLE   Clifton St Andrew Gloucestershire.

Son Alfred CANTLE bapt 26 Aug 1860, father moulder. Parish Register Clifton St Andrew

Do you mean Sarah Hannah Eddy?
She is in 1861 with Albert Eddy and is documented as Sarah Hannah Chapple b Ilfracombe in earlier censuses.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Saturday 13 August 22 12:02 BST (UK)

GRO births
NORRIS, Eliza                 mms.     EDDY 
1890  SepQ           Bedminster   Vol 05C  Page 663

NORRIS, Alfred John          mms  EDDY 
1893  JunQ            Bedminster  Vol 05C  Page 691

NORRIS, Herbert John     mms     EDDY 
1904  MarQ           Bristol          Vol 06A  Page 28

GRO death
NORRIS, Alfred John    age     0 
1894  MarQ            Bedminster  Vol 05C  Page 556

Is this your family?

Ancestry England  Census 1891   @ 5 Myrtle Street Bedminster
NORRIS Alfred John     25y    coal miner           b. Bedminster  Somerset
NORRIS Eliza              30y                              b. Holwell Clifton, Gloucestershire,
NORRIS Eliza                8m   dau.                    b. Bedminster Somerset
NORRIS Eliza               21y   sister laundress    b. Bedminster Somerset

Ancestry England Census 1901     @     35 Gladstone St Bedminster Bristol
NORRIS A                   35y  coal miner hewer    b. Bedminster Bristol
NORRIS Eliza               40y                              b. Bedminster Bristol
NORRIS Eliza              10y    dau                      b. Bedminster Bristol


Ancestry England Census 1911     @ 24 Braunton Road Bedminster Bristol Gloucestershire
NORRIS Alfred John       46y  engineman below ground        b. Bristol
NORRIS Eliza                 50y                                              b. Bristol
NORRIS Eliza                 20y    cigarette packer                   b. Bristol
NORRIS Herbert John       7y    school                                 b. Bristol
HAYMAN Herbert John    33y     boarder  single                    b  Sth Molton N.Devon
 

Ancestry Bristol England Non-conformist Baptism  Weslyan British Road Ebernezer
NORRIS Herbert John  born 17 Jan 1904  bapt. 11 Feb 1904
parents Alfred John & Eliza         35 Gladstone St Bedminster

I suspect that there is easy use of "ditto", so birthplace for Eliza, 1891, Holwell Clifton, Gloucestershire, might be useful in locating other EDDYs.


such a shame 35 Gladstone Bedminster doesn't exist anymore.
5 Myrtle Street Bedminster still exists
24 Braunton Road{not Braunton Street} still exists

Herbert John Norris{1904} is my Dad's fathers father if that makes sense
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Saturday 13 August 22 12:04 BST (UK)
It looks as though Albert and Thomas are the same person.
He may have preferred Thomas as a name or changed it for some reason. Sometimes names were changed after a police incident or similar.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Sunday 14 August 22 16:13 BST (UK)
It looks as though Albert and Thomas are the same person.
He may have preferred Thomas as a name or changed it for some reason. Sometimes names were changed after a police incident or similar.

according to all the Civil Birth Records on FindMyPast website all the Albert Eddy's that were from Bristol were all born between 1886 - 1923 {which was after after Sarah and Thomas Eddy daughter Eliza was born in 1861 and yet the first Albert Eddy was born 2 years before Sarah and Thomas's daughter Eliza Eddy got married to Alfred John Norris in 1888}

so it would make it pretty hard for Albert and Thomas Eddy to be the same people.

I also know Eliza Sarah and Thomas Daughter's birth year is correct with being 1861 as according to 1911 census it states she is 50 years of age which 1861 - 1911 makes the birth correct.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Sunday 14 August 22 16:33 BST (UK)
I have found the birth for Thomas - 1857
It is odd
September quarter 1857 Bristol mmn Chappel

December quarter 1857 Clifton mmn Chapple

Church register shows the burial for the child Thomas Eddy March 1858 Hotwells

yeah its possible that they did have another son. there is a marriage record for a Thomas Eddy from Bristol who marries a woman called Mary Ann Boxell {from Cornwall originally} and they had 1 daughter Eden Louise born 1894 but I can't find a death record for her or even a marriage record. I can't find her on any passenger lists or migration lists either.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Sunday 14 August 22 16:35 BST (UK)
I don’t understand what you mean, sorry.
This is what we have.

Albert Eddy born abt 1834 - Bath, Somerset

1851 1953 /53/28
Albert 16 yrs b Bath.
Living in Bristol with father William

Marriage 1857 to Sarah Hannah Chapple. His father William Eddy.

1861 1727 /56/8

Albert 28 yrs b Bath with Sarah H and children Philip and Eliza.

Albert then disappears and Sarah Hannah’s relationship and subsequent marriage has been detailed on this thread.

I also mentioned the death of Thomas Eddy which shows his birth year as similar to Albert’s.

Added
Sarah Hannah’s second marriage took place in the same year and quarter as Thomas Eddy’s death if I recall.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Sunday 14 August 22 16:39 BST (UK)
I don’t understand what you mean, sorry.
This is what we have.

Albert Eddy born abt 1834 - Bath, Somerset

1851 1953 /53/28
Albert 16 yrs b Bath.
Living in Bristol with father William

Marriage 1857 to Sarah Hannah Chapple. His father William Eddy.

1861 1727 /56/8

Albert 28 yrs b Bath with Sarah H and children Philip and Eliza.

Albert then disappears and Sarah Hannah’s relationship and subsequent marriage has been detailed on this thread.

I also mentioned the death of Thomas Eddy which shows his birth year as similar to Albert’s.

his name on Alfred John Norris and Eliza Eddy marriage certificate is not written as ''Albert'' or even ''Thomas Albert'' or ''Albert Thomas'' its written as ''Thomas Eddy'' {he may not even have been born in Bath or Bristol, he may have been born in Cornwall where a lot of the Eddy family members seem to be at that time
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Sunday 14 August 22 16:54 BST (UK)
Yes I know that.
He is also Thomas on Philip’s marriage certificate.

I have also previously mentioned this man  in 1871 2521/9/10
Thomas Eddy, mason’s labourer b Bath and lodging in Bristol. He is listed as unmarried and has been transcribed as 28yrs but, to me, that is doubtful on the census page.

I was just putting the idea forward that, for some reason, Albert who was Sarah Hannah’s husband, might have used a different forename for some reason.

Of course, you are right there might be a Cornwall connection - a very popular name there but I think there are coincidences which can be considered or discarded.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Sunday 14 August 22 16:57 BST (UK)
Sorry, this just occurred to me.

In your first post you wrote,

“ we know Eliza Eddy was born 1861 in Hotwells, Bristol, her father was Thomas Eddy {Labourer} but the woman who I thought was her mother Sarah Hannah Chapple isn't her mother after all due to her marrying a Bristol man called Albert Eddy.”


are you thinking that is the wrong family for your Eliza?

Who is named as Eliza’s father on her birth certificate?
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Monday 15 August 22 12:32 BST (UK)
Sorry, this just occurred to me.

In your first post you wrote,

“ we know Eliza Eddy was born 1861 in Hotwells, Bristol, her father was Thomas Eddy {Labourer} but the woman who I thought was her mother Sarah Hannah Chapple isn't her mother after all due to her marrying a Bristol man called Albert Eddy.”


are you thinking that is the wrong family for your Eliza?

Who is named as Eliza’s father on her birth certificate?

I don't think Albert Eddy{unless his full name was either Thomas Albert or Albert Thomas} or Sarah Hannah Chapple were her parents
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 15 August 22 16:29 BST (UK)
Sorry, this just occurred to me.

In your first post you wrote,

“ we know Eliza Eddy was born 1861 in Hotwells, Bristol, her father was Thomas Eddy {Labourer} but the woman who I thought was her mother Sarah Hannah Chapple isn't her mother after all due to her marrying a Bristol man called Albert Eddy.”


are you thinking that is the wrong family for your Eliza?

Who is named as Eliza’s father on her birth certificate?

I don't think Albert Eddy{unless his full name was either Thomas Albert or Albert Thomas} or Sarah Hannah Chapple were her parents

SummerCrush - do you have Eliza's birth certificate ?

1891/1901/1911 censuses for Eliza Norris (nee Eddy) give her pob Bristol or Holwell born c 1861

Have you found her Baptism?

Bristol, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1921

there is a baptism for
Eliza Eddy parents Albert , occ labourer & Sarah Hannah at St Peter’s Gloucester on 3 Feb 1861, abode Lambwell Court

and also these two Bpt. with same parents names Albert & Sarah Hannah

Philip Eddy 10 Dec 1858 St Mary Redcliffe Bristol
father’s occ Brewer abode 2 Guinea St.

Mary Ann Eddy 1 Mar 1863 St Peter Gloucester
father’s occ labourer abode Hotwell Road

Probable death of above Mary Ann EDDY age 1 Sept qtr. 1864 Bristol

GRO indexes all three birth entries mmn CHAPPLE

No baptism found for Thomas Eddy (mmn Chappel/le) born Bristol 1857
to confirm his parents names

No baptism found for Eliza Eddy born Bristol c1861 father named Thomas  ??? mother ?


Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Monday 15 August 22 21:26 BST (UK)
Sorry, this just occurred to me.

In your first post you wrote,

“ we know Eliza Eddy was born 1861 in Hotwells, Bristol, her father was Thomas Eddy {Labourer} but the woman who I thought was her mother Sarah Hannah Chapple isn't her mother after all due to her marrying a Bristol man called Albert Eddy.”


are you thinking that is the wrong family for your Eliza?

Who is named as Eliza’s father on her birth certificate?

I don't think Albert Eddy{unless his full name was either Thomas Albert or Albert Thomas} or Sarah Hannah Chapple were her parents

SummerCrush - do you have Eliza's birth certificate ?

1891/1901/1911 censuses for Eliza Norris (nee Eddy) give her pob Bristol or Holwell born c 1861

Have you found her Baptism?

Bristol, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1921

there is a baptism for
Eliza Eddy parents Albert , occ labourer & Sarah Hannah at St Peter’s Gloucester on 3 Feb 1861, abode Lambwell Court

and also these two Bpt. with same parents names Albert & Sarah Hannah

Philip Eddy 10 Dec 1858 St Mary Redcliffe Bristol
father’s occ Brewer abode 2 Guinea St.

Mary Ann Eddy 1 Mar 1863 St Peter Gloucester
father’s occ labourer abode Hotwell Road

Probable death of above Mary Ann EDDY age 1 Sept qtr. 1864 Bristol

GRO indexes all three birth entries mmn CHAPPLE

No baptism found for Thomas Eddy (mmn Chappel/le) born Bristol 1857
to confirm his parents names

No baptism found for Eliza Eddy born Bristol c1861 father named Thomas  ??? mother ?

unfortunately no I tried the National Records Office to get hold of Eliza Eddy's birth record and they told me they have no record of an Eliza being born in 1961 but one of my family members has confirmed Eliza born 1861 and died 1936 via information from other family members and she has also confirmed the correct birth as 1890 for Eliza's daughter Eliza Norris who married Thomas EJ Cockle as being 1890{I also can't get a record of that birth certificate either as the National Records Office has no record of a birth for her}
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 15 August 22 21:31 BST (UK)
unfortunately no I tried the National Records Office to get hold of Eliza Eddy's birth record and they told me they have no record of an Eliza being born in 1961 but one of my family members has confirmed Eliza born 1861 and died 1936

via information from other family members and she has also confirmed the correct birth as 1890 for Eliza's daughter Eliza Norris who married Thomas EJ Cockle as being 1890{I also can't get a record of that birth certificate either as the National Records Office has no record of a birth for her}

There's this birth entry on GRO indexes

Eliza NORRIS    mmn EDDY 
GRO Reference: 1890  S Quarter in BEDMINSTER  Volume 05C  Page 663

Edit to add this appears to be the only birth 1861

Eliza EDDY    mmn CHAPPLE 
GRO Reference: 1861  M Quarter in CLIFTON  Volume 06A  Page 65

The above birth entry Mar Qtr. would tie in with the baptism 3 Feb 1861 previously posted
Eliza's father Albert mother Sarah Hannah

Edit to add baptism of Eliza which ties in with 1890 Sept Qtr. birth entry from GRO indexes

Eliza NORRIS
Baptism 8 Aug 1890 Bedminster, St John, Bristol,
Father:   Alfred John, collier Mother: Eliza abode 5 North Street
and the death of Eliza Cockle gives her dob 22 Jul 1890
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Monday 15 August 22 21:52 BST (UK)
You say you know Eliza was born in Hotwells.
Eliza Eddy b 1861 was born and living in the Hotwells area.

Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Monday 15 August 22 22:37 BST (UK)
You say you know Eliza was born in Hotwells.
Eliza Eddy b 1861 was born and living in the Hotwells area.

Yes I have the census after her and Alfred John Norris married, it states Hotwells, Bristol the place where she was born, I believe she was living in Number 25 King Square Hotwells after Her And Alfred Norris married but that house no longer exists.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Monday 15 August 22 23:04 BST (UK)
The Eliza we have put forward was living in Lambwell Court in 1861.

The next census entry address is Jacobs Wells.

I know you research addresses etc - lots of interesting information online about the area.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Tuesday 16 August 22 11:51 BST (UK)
The Eliza we have put forward was living in Lambwell Court in 1861.

The next census entry address is Jacobs Wells.

I know you research addresses etc - lots of interesting information online about the area.

Lambwell Court is now known as ''Hotels House - Student Accommodation''

Jacobs Wells Road, Hotwells, Bristol used to be a really posh area back in the day, but now its gone really down hill
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 16 August 22 12:21 BST (UK)
We are not persuading you then?
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Tuesday 16 August 22 12:52 BST (UK)
We are not persuading you then?

yes you are
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 16 August 22 12:53 BST (UK)
SummerCrush I have been looking back over your thread and these previous posts from Heywood

Quote
“It looks as though Albert and Thomas are the same person.
He may have preferred Thomas as a name or changed it for some reason. Sometimes names were changed after a police incident or similar.”

“I have also previously mentioned this man  in 1871 2521/9/10
Thomas Eddy, mason’s labourer b Bath and lodging in Bristol. He is listed as unmarried and has been transcribed as 28yrs but, to me, that is doubtful on the census page.”

“I was just putting the idea forward that, for some reason, Albert who was Sarah Hannah’s husband, might have used a different forename for some reason.”


I have to agree with Heywood the unmarried THOMAS EDDY age 38 born Bath Somerset  lodging 44 Temple Street Bristol on 1871 census has similarities to the ALBERT EDDY born Bath Somerset who married Sarah Hannah Chapple/el…….there appears to be NO other census that I can see for a Thomas Eddy born Bath Somerset other than the 1871 census  ???

The question is did

Sarah Hannah Eddy (nee Chappel) leave her husband Albert Eddy sometime after birth/death of their daughter Mary Ann Eddy(b1863-d1864)
or was it
Albert Eddy who left his wife Sarah ( a possible relationship with Henry John Coleman, she is living with him as his wife 1871 and her two children Philip & Eliza Eddy (mmn Chappel) from 1861 census have been dittoed as having the surname Coleman (1871)
Then for whatever reason her husband Albert Eddy may have changed his christian name to Thomas  Eddy thereafter???

Sarah Hannah Eddy married Henry John Coleman in DEC qtr. 1877 -
do you have this marriage certificate? Was she noted as a widow???

Mentioned by Heywood a death entry for
Thomas Eddy age 44 (1833) DEC 1877 Bristol

As mentioned does seem a coincidence that Sarah Hannah Eddy married in the same quarter and year as the above death entry of a Thomas Eddy - again perhaps another coincidence!

If it were my family just to rule him in or out I would be considering obtaining the 1877 death certificate of Thomas Eddy to see what it says it would be interesting as to who the informant was - perhaps a family member  :-\

If you ever unravel the mystery of your Eliza Eddy born 1861 Bristol as to who her mother was please come back and let us know  :)
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Tuesday 16 August 22 13:02 BST (UK)
it looks like Sarah Hannah Chapple and Henry Coleman had a son called John Eddy born 1873 in Bristol and there is also a William Coleman born 1948 in Northumberland West and the mothers maiden name is Chapple{but not sure if this is Sarah or Henry's son or not}
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 16 August 22 13:06 BST (UK)
it looks like Sarah Hannah Chapple and Henry Coleman had a son called John Eddy born 1873 in Bristol

John Eddy Coleman

Baptism 22 Jan 1873 St Nicholas, Bristol
Father:   Henry Coleman, labourer Mother:   Sarah Hannah abode 15 Back Street
Also baptised on same day Henry Eddie Coleman

added

John Eddy Coleman Age:   0
Registration Mar 1873
Death Registration Place:   Bristol, Gloucestershire
Volume:   6a Page:   12

COLEMAN, JOHN  EDDY     mmn CHAPPLE 
GRO Reference: 1873  M Quarter in BRISTOL  Volume 06A  Page 17
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 16 August 22 13:17 BST (UK)
May have been added previously apologies if I'm duplicating

Henry Eddy Coleman age 21, labourer Cheese Lane
father Henry John Coleman, labourer
married in 1888 witnesses to his wedding were
Alfred John Norris & Eliza Norris

Henry Eddy COLEMAN  mmn CHAPEL
GRO Reference: 1867  D Quarter in BRISTOL  Volume 06A  Page 10
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Tuesday 16 August 22 15:17 BST (UK)
May have been added previously apologies if I'm duplicating

Henry Eddy Coleman age 21, labourer Cheese Lane
father Henry John Coleman, labourer
married in 1888 witnesses to his wedding were
Alfred John Norris & Eliza Norris

Henry Eddy COLEMAN  mmn CHAPEL
GRO Reference: 1867  D Quarter in BRISTOL  Volume 06A  Page 10

Thank-You its much appreciated.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Tuesday 16 August 22 15:33 BST (UK)
SummerCrush I have been looking back over your thread and these previous posts from Heywood

Quote
“It looks as though Albert and Thomas are the same person.
He may have preferred Thomas as a name or changed it for some reason. Sometimes names were changed after a police incident or similar.”

“I have also previously mentioned this man  in 1871 2521/9/10
Thomas Eddy, mason’s labourer b Bath and lodging in Bristol. He is listed as unmarried and has been transcribed as 28yrs but, to me, that is doubtful on the census page.”

“I was just putting the idea forward that, for some reason, Albert who was Sarah Hannah’s husband, might have used a different forename for some reason.”


I have to agree with Heywood the unmarried THOMAS EDDY age 38 born Bath Somerset  lodging 44 Temple Street Bristol on 1871 census has similarities to the ALBERT EDDY born Bath Somerset who married Sarah Hannah Chapple/el…….there appears to be NO other census that I can see for a Thomas Eddy born Bath Somerset other than the 1871 census  ???

The question is did

Sarah Hannah Eddy (nee Chappel) leave her husband Albert Eddy sometime after birth/death of their daughter Mary Ann Eddy(b1863-d1864)
or was it
Albert Eddy who left his wife Sarah ( a possible relationship with Henry John Coleman, she is living with him as his wife 1871 and her two children Philip & Eliza Eddy (mmn Chappel) from 1861 census have been dittoed as having the surname Coleman (1871)
Then for whatever reason her husband Albert Eddy may have changed his christian name to Thomas  Eddy thereafter???

Sarah Hannah Eddy married Henry John Coleman in DEC qtr. 1877 -
do you have this marriage certificate? Was she noted as a widow???

Mentioned by Heywood a death entry for
Thomas Eddy age 44 (1833) DEC 1877 Bristol

As mentioned does seem a coincidence that Sarah Hannah Eddy married in the same quarter and year as the above death entry of a Thomas Eddy - again perhaps another coincidence!

If it were my family just to rule him in or out I would be considering obtaining the 1877 death certificate of Thomas Eddy to see what it says it would be interesting as to who the informant was - perhaps a family member  :-\

If you ever unravel the mystery of your Eliza Eddy born 1861 Bristol as to who her mother was please come back and let us know  :)

just been on FindMyPast website, looked up Birth Record for a Thomas Eddy{born 1833 to make him aged 38 on the 1871 Census} born in Bath and there is ZILCH.

then tried Albert Eddy{Zilch} then tried Albert T Eddy{Zilch} and then tried Thomas A Eddy{again Zilch} with them all being born in the location of Bath and there is nothing birth record wise that backs up where he says he was born on the 1871 census.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 16 August 22 15:47 BST (UK)
Albert Eddy baptism 1834 - Walcot, Somerset
Parents William and Ann
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J3YR-99K

1841 372 /book 6 /folio 35 / pg 18
Harford Street Bristol

William and Honor Eddy with children including Albert 7 yrs
None are born in county
Dalton? Court, Bristol
1851 1953 /53/28
William b Bath
Albert b Bath
Siblings b Bristol


Added
As you say no sign of Thomas
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: djm297 on Tuesday 16 August 22 15:54 BST (UK)
Albert Eddy born 10 April 1834, bapt 16 Nov 1834 Walcot, Bath- son of William Eddy  and Anne - Abode = 14, Clarence Street. William was a Labourer- from Find My Past.

djm297
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Tuesday 16 August 22 16:19 BST (UK)
Quote“I have also previously mentioned this man in 1871 2521/9/10
Thomas Eddy, mason’s labourer b Bath and lodging in Bristol. He is listed as unmarried and has been transcribed as 28yrs but, to me, that is doubtful on the census page.”

check for a birth record on Thomas Eddy then tried Thomas A then tried Thomas Albert and then tried Albert T and then tried Albert Thomas born 1843 to make him 28 years of age on that 1871 census located in Bath and there is NO Record of a birth for any of those names being born in Bath.

but there is a Thomas Eddy born 1844 in Tavistock, Devon

William Eddy married Elizabeth Chapple in 1880, they had two daughters one called Pollie Louise Eddy born 1881 in Devon{there is NO Death record for her} and Sarah Eddy born 1879 in Penzance, Cornwall

Sarah Eddy married John Charles Chapple in 1908 in Penzance, Cornwall and they had no children{well none that I can find after they married in 1908}
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Tuesday 16 August 22 16:25 BST (UK)
Albert Eddy born 10 April 1834, bapt 16 Nov 1834 Walcot, Bath- son of William Eddy  and Anne - Abode = 14, Clarence Street. William was a Labourer- from Find My Past.

djm297

I have NO Clue how you found that as I'm on FindMyPast now and I've just checked birth records for Albert Eddy birth year of exactly 1834 in Walcot, Somerset and there is NONE as in ZILCH record of that birth.

I also searched for Albert Eddy born in Walcot, Somerset +100 miles and again the only Albert Eddy that appears in the one born in Bodmin, Cornwall

I also searched for Albert Thomas Eddy then Albert T Eddy then Thomas A Eddy born exactly 1834 and born 1834 +1, +2, +5, +10, +20 in Somerset as a whole again and ZILCH

then tried the same thing as above but with location of Somerset +100 mile radius and the only Albert Eddy that appears is a man born 1861 in Bodmin, Cornwall

Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: djm297 on Tuesday 16 August 22 16:31 BST (UK)
I put Bath as the place of birth- with a 5 mile radius.

djm297
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Tuesday 16 August 22 16:41 BST (UK)
Albert Eddy born 10 April 1834, bapt 16 Nov 1834 Walcot, Bath- son of William Eddy  and Anne - Abode = 14, Clarence Street. William was a Labourer- from Find My Past.

djm297

I've just done what you did and there is ZERO results coming up
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: djm297 on Tuesday 16 August 22 16:45 BST (UK)
You need to search under Parish Baptisms. Civil registration of births did not start until 1837.

djm297
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 16 August 22 20:17 BST (UK)

just been on FindMyPast website, looked up Birth Record for a Thomas Eddy{born 1833 to make him aged 38 on the 1871 Census} born in Bath and there is ZILCH.


How strange  ???

On the same website I entered the following in

Your search

First name Thomas
Last name Eddy
Year of birth 1833
give or take +/- 2
Location Bristol

View 1 result it's shows
Eddy Thomas 1833
record set 1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
location Temple, Bristol, Gloucestershire, England

1871 census can also be found on family search
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5TX-8VK
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 16 August 22 21:04 BST (UK)

Albert Eddy baptism 1834 - Walcot, Somerset
Parents William and Ann
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J3YR-99K

1841 372 /book 6 /folio 35 / pg 18
Harford Street Bristol

William and Honor Eddy with children including Albert 7 yrs
None are born in county
Dalton? Court, Bristol
1851 1953 /53/28
William b Bath
Albert b Bath
Siblings b Bristol

For info. it looks as if Albert Eddy's father William remarried after the death of his mother Ann
edit - it looks as if William remarried Honor in 1842 after the death of his first wife Ann in 1837

William Eddey
Spouse:   Ann Masling
Marriage   31 Jan 1827 Church of St Michael the Archangel, Bristol

Anne Eddy
Death 29 Aug 1837
Cemetery:   St. Swithin Churchyard
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/223069877/anne-eddy

Anne Eddy age 37, abode 12 Wellington Place
Burial 29 Aug 1837 Walcot St Swithin, Somerset

4 Sep 1842 St Mary Redcliffe, Bristol
William Eddy, widower, occ painter
father William, carpenter
Honour Jefferis
father Ob??l , farmer

Honour EDDY mmn JEFFERIES
GRO Reference: 1838  D Quarter in BATH  Volume 11  Page 50   

Clara EDDEY mmn JEFFRIES
GRO Reference: 1840  D Quarter in BRISTOL  Volume 11  Page 148   
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 16 August 22 21:38 BST (UK)
There is a lot of information about the family in online records and published trees. There are pages of it here.

The difficulty is father Thomas on marriage certificates for a Eliza and Philip and father Albert on census, birth and his marriage.

Is it now accepted that this is the right Eliza - lots of evidence re marriage etc?
Is it now accepted that Albert and Thomas are the same person?
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Wednesday 17 August 22 11:40 BST (UK)

just been on FindMyPast website, looked up Birth Record for a Thomas Eddy{born 1833 to make him aged 38 on the 1871 Census} born in Bath and there is ZILCH.


How strange  ???

On the same website I entered the following in

Your search

First name Thomas
Last name Eddy
Year of birth 1833
give or take +/- 2
Location Bristol

View 1 result it's shows
Eddy Thomas 1833
record set 1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
location Temple, Bristol, Gloucestershire, England

1871 census can also be found on family search
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5TX-8VK

Thomas Eddy that was born in Bristol in 1833 marries a Cornwall lady called Mary Boxell in 1886 in Bristol and they had 1 daughter together Eden Louise born 1894 but there is NO Marriage Record for a Eden Louise or Eden L or Louise Eddy and NO Baptism for a Eden Louise or Eden L or Louise Eden or Louise E Eddy but there is a death record for a lady who was born 1894 and died 1945 in Bristol as Eden Jones
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: Ladyhawk on Wednesday 17 August 22 12:00 BST (UK)

Thomas Eddy that was born in Bristol in 1833 marries a Cornwall lady called Mary Boxell  in 1886 Bristol


is this marriage you are referring to? If so, according to his m/c that Thomas was born 1862 and has a middle name

Thomas Henry Eddy age 24
Marriage    10 Jun 1886    Portland Square, St Paul, Bristol
Father:   William John Eddy
Spouse:   Mary Ann Boxell father Frederick
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Wednesday 17 August 22 12:31 BST (UK)
Sarah Hannah Eddy (nee Chappel) leave her husband Albert Eddy sometime after birth/death of their daughter Mary Ann Eddy(b1863-d1864)
or was it
Albert Eddy who left his wife Sarah ( a possible relationship with Henry John Coleman, she is living with him as his wife 1871 and her two children Philip & Eliza Eddy (mmn Chappel) from 1861 census have been dittoed as having the surname Coleman (1871)

I know Sarah died as Sarah Coleman and was buried at St Andrews, Clifton, Bristol, UK on 31 July 1878 and I know Sarah was born 1829 in Bristol {her parents were George Chapple and Margaret Hosken {they married in Penzance Cornwall in 1842}
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Wednesday 17 August 22 13:20 BST (UK)

Albert Eddy baptism 1834 - Walcot, Somerset
Parents William and Ann
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J3YR-99K

1841 372 /book 6 /folio 35 / pg 18
Harford Street Bristol

William and Honor Eddy with children including Albert 7 yrs
None are born in county
Dalton? Court, Bristol
1851 1953 /53/28
William b Bath
Albert b Bath
Siblings b Bristol

For info. it looks as if Albert Eddy's father William remarried after the death of his mother Ann

William Eddey
Spouse:   Ann Masling
Marriage   31 Jan 1827 Church of St Michael the Archangel, Bristol

Anne Eddy
Death 29 Aug 1837
Cemetery:   St. Swithin Churchyard
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/223069877/anne-eddy

Anne Eddy age 37, abode 12 Wellington Place
Burial 29 Aug 1837 Walcot St Swithin, Somerset

4 Sep 1842 St Mary Redcliffe, Bristol
William Eddy, widower, occ painter
father William, carpenter
Honour Jefferis
father Ob??l , farmer

Honour EDDY mmn JEFFERIES
GRO Reference: 1838  D Quarter in BATH  Volume 11  Page 50   

Clara EDDEY mmn JEFFRIES
GRO Reference: 1840  D Quarter in BRISTOL  Volume 11  Page 148

do you mean William re-married after death of his first wife Ann{not mother}
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Wednesday 17 August 22 13:27 BST (UK)
it looks like Sarah Hannah Chapple and Henry Coleman had a son called John Eddy born 1873 in Bristol

John Eddy Coleman

Baptism 22 Jan 1873 St Nicholas, Bristol
Father:   Henry Coleman, labourer Mother:   Sarah Hannah abode 15 Back Street
Also baptised on same day Henry Eddie Coleman

added

John Eddy Coleman Age:   0
Registration Mar 1873
Death Registration Place:   Bristol, Gloucestershire
Volume:   6a Page:   12

COLEMAN, JOHN  EDDY     mmn CHAPPLE 
GRO Reference: 1873  M Quarter in BRISTOL  Volume 06A  Page 17

John Eddy Coleman died the same year he was born I've just found his death record
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: Ladyhawk on Wednesday 17 August 22 20:37 BST (UK)
do you mean William re-married after death of his first wife Ann{not mother}

Yes I did sorry I didn't phrase it very well - it does look as if William Eddy's wife Ann (mother of Albert) died in 1837 and his father William remarried Honor in 1842
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: Ladyhawk on Wednesday 17 August 22 20:55 BST (UK)

There is a lot of information about the family in online records and published trees. There are pages of it here.

The difficulty is father Thomas on marriage certificates for a Eliza and Philip and father Albert on census, birth and his marriage.

Is it now accepted that this is the right Eliza - lots of evidence re marriage etc?

Is it now accepted that Albert and Thomas are the same person?

SummerCrush what are your thoughts ?


I know Sarah died as Sarah Coleman and was buried at St Andrews, Clifton, Bristol, UK on 31 July 1878 and
I know Sarah was born 1829 in Bristol {her parents were George Chapple and Margaret Hosken{they married in Penzance Cornwall in 1842}

SummerCrush - Are you looking at a different Sarah to the one that married Albert Eddy?

The Sarah Hannah Chappel who married Albert Eddy her father is named as Philip on the m/c ???

Her possible death entry

COLEMAN, SARAH  HANNAH     75 
GRO Reference: 1911  J Quarter in BRISTOL  Volume 06A  Page 16
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Thursday 18 August 22 02:10 BST (UK)

There is a lot of information about the family in online records and published trees. There are pages of it here.

The difficulty is father Thomas on marriage certificates for a Eliza and Philip and father Albert on census, birth and his marriage.

Is it now accepted that this is the right Eliza - lots of evidence re marriage etc?

Is it now accepted that Albert and Thomas are the same person?

SummerCrush what are your thoughts ?


I know Sarah died as Sarah Coleman and was buried at St Andrews, Clifton, Bristol, UK on 31 July 1878 and
I know Sarah was born 1829 in Bristol {her parents were George Chapple and Margaret Hosken{they married in Penzance Cornwall in 1842}

SummerCrush - Are you looking at a different Sarah to the one that married Albert Eddy?

The Sarah Hannah Chappel who married Albert Eddy her father is named as Philip on the m/c ???

Her possible death entry

COLEMAN, SARAH  HANNAH     75 
GRO Reference: 1911  J Quarter in BRISTOL  Volume 06A  Page 16

well Eliza Eddy born 1861 in Hotwells, Bristol who married my 3x times Great Grandfather Alfred John Norris in 1888 in Bristol {Eliza's father on her marriage certificate states Thomas Eddy - Job Profession Labourer and also deceased at the time of their wedding - the mother to Eliza is not listed on her marriage certificate to Alfred John Norris}

that means Sarah Hannah Chapple can't be Eliza's mother as I thought especially if her father is called Philip on her marriage certificate to Albert Eddy

I can't find any official document online to prove Thomas Eddy married Sarah Hannah Chapple but Sarah did have a son called Philip {if she is Eliza's mother than Philip would have been born 3 years before her daughter Eliza was born}

I have tried buying Eliza birth certificate from the Records Office but they are saying they have no record of an Eliza Eddy being born 1861 in Bristol despite me telling them and sending them the marriage certificate I found online, I told them Eliza was 27 years of age when she got married to Alfred John Norris in 1888 making her born 1861.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Thursday 18 August 22 03:07 BST (UK)


There is a lot of information about the family in online records and published trees. There are pages of it here.

The difficulty is father Thomas on marriage certificates for a Eliza and Philip and father Albert on census, birth and his marriage.

Is it now accepted that this is the right Eliza - lots of evidence re marriage etc?

I know Sarah died as Sarah Coleman and was buried at St Andrews, Clifton, Bristol, UK on 31 July 1878 and I know Sarah was born 1829 in Bristol {her parents were George Chapple and Margaret Hosken{they married in Penzance Cornwall in 1842}

SummerCrush - Are you looking at a different Sarah to the one that married Albert Eddy?

The Sarah Hannah Chappel who married Albert Eddy her father is named as Philip on the m/c ???

Her possible death entry

COLEMAN, SARAH  HANNAH     75 
GRO Reference: 1911  J Quarter in BRISTOL  Volume 06A  Page 16[/quote]

Sarah Hannah Chapple had three kids that we know of Philip born 1858, Eliza born 1861 and Mary Ann born 1863 {they must have been Thomas's children} as she didn't marry Albert until December 1877 if I remember correctly which means Sarah Hannah Chapple must have been born 1838 if Philip was born 1858 - making her 20 years of age when she had Philip {based on when Sarah was born the only death record that matches with the surname Coleman is a Sarah Coleman who died July 1878.

I've realised that John Eddy Coleman can't be Sarah and Henry son as he was born 1873 but they didn't marry until December 1877
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Thursday 18 August 22 03:48 BST (UK)
it looks like Eliza Eddy{a.k.a full name Elizabeth Eddy} returns to Penzance in Cornwall after her marriage to Alfred John Norris fails in Bristol and she re-marries a Mariner Sailor called James Wills at
St Mary's Church in Penzance, Cornwall in July 1889{Elizabeth claims to be 27 years of age when this marriage takes place which means she likely was born in St Austell, Cornwall in 1862 and the mothers maiden name on that birth record is ''Rosevear''.{Elizabeth's father on that marriage certificate is Thomas Eddy who is listed as deceased at time of wedding but it states his job profession was a Miner and James Wills father is Mariner. the witnesses are Elizabeth Bourne and James Rowe.

Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 18 August 22 07:42 BST (UK)
SummerCrush - I’m getting slightly confused now  ???  ???

your opening post says quote

“believe Eliza Eddy died October 1936 in Taunton, Somerset, England.

we know Eliza and Alfred had a daughter called Eliza{born 1891 in Bristol} and they had a son called Herbert John Norris

Herbert John Norris {born January 1904 Bristol and died December 1988 Burnham War Memorial Hospital, Burnham-on-Sea, Somerset, England”




it looks like Eliza Eddy {a.k.a full name Elizabeth Eddy} returns to Penzance in Cornwall after her marriage to Alfred John Norris fails in Bristol and she re-marries a Mariner Sailor called James Wills at St Mary's Church in Penzance, Cornwall in July 1889

{Elizabeth claims to be 27 years of age when this marriage takes place which means she likely was born in St Austell, Cornwall in 1862 and the mothers maiden name on that birth record is ''Rosevear''.

{Elizabeth's father on that marriage certificate is Thomas Eddy who is listed as deceased at time of wedding but it states his job profession was a Miner and James Wills father is Mariner. the witnesses are Elizabeth Bourne and James Rowe.

How can Eliza (aka Elizabeth have remarried in 1889) when she had children with Alfred John Norris born 1890 & 1904 and is with her husband and children on 1911 census  ??? -
added
if you search the latest census address Braunton Road you will find Alfred J Norris, Eliza & Herbert J living together in Bristol and widowed Alfred is living with his son Herbert & family in 1939 at the same address as 1911 census (Braunton Road) - there is a death Dec 1936 Bristol for Eliza Norris age 75 (1861) and Mar 1948 Bristol Alfred John Norris

1911 census
Alfred John Norris 46 Bristol, wife Eliza 50 Bristol, their children
Eliza 20 Bristol , Herbert John Norris 7, Bristol  living at 24 Braunton Rd Bedminster, Bristol

NORRIS, ELIZA   mmn EDDY
GRO Reference: 1890  S Quarter in BEDMINSTER  Volume 05C  Page 663

NORRIS, HERBERT  JOHN   mmn EDDY
GRO Reference: 1904  M Quarter in BRISTOL  Volume 06A  Page 28   

Herbert John Norris
Birth 17 Jan 1904
Baptism    11 Feb 1904 Bedminster, Bristol
Religion:   Wesleyan
Father:   Alfred John Norris Mother: Eliza ab ode 35 Gladstone St Bedminster

I’m going to wish Good Luck with your research as I don't think I can contribute anything further that might be helpful :)
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Thursday 18 August 22 07:47 BST (UK)
Ladyhawk and Summercrush.
I had written this over a time and as I posted, I see you have posted L H.
I will still post though as it is slightly different to yours.  :)

There is so much information here which has been posted/reposted/quoted that at times it can be difficult to follow.

1857
Marriage : Clifton Sept 1857 6a 202
Albert Eddy and Sarah Hannah Chapple.

Birth: Bristol September quarter 6a 11
Thomas Eddy mmn Chappel

Birth: Clifton December 1857 6a 65
Thomas Eddy mmn Chapple

1858 Bristol December 1857 6a 11
Philip Eddy mother Chapple

Death: Clifton March 6a 71
Thomas Eddy 0 years

1861
Birth: Clifton March 1861 6a 65
Eliza Eddy. Mother Chapple

1861 1727 /56/8

Albert, Sarah, Philip and Eliza living in Hotwells district, Clifton.

1863 Clifton March quarter 6a 76
Mary Ann Eddy - mother Chapple

1864 Bristol September quarter 6a 40
Death Mary Ann Eddy 1year

Clifton is a separate registration district to Bristol and is now a suburb of Bristol.

You have parish records and marriages etc detailed elsewhere in this thread.

**Albert Eddy ‘disappears.
** Thomas Eddy is named in marriage records as father

**Thomas Eddy dies 1877

You have census 1871 for the Colemans

Nowhere is Cornwall mentioned as birthplace to Eliza.

We have tried to piece together your Norris information with the Eddy information through the various records.

Traditions were not always followed.
People changed their names.
People lived together because they couldn’t marry.

Sarah Ann married her partner Henry Coleman after Thomas Eddy’s death.

(My grandparents were together over 30 years before they could marry. They had to wait until her first husband died).

We are going round in circles with this information and you can try to verify anything with official records if necessary.

If you reject this family, then the Norris information doesn’t seem to fit either.

I am sorry that this is a much longer post than I intended. I have tried to summarise what is known about The Eddy family.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 18 August 22 07:57 BST (UK)

I am sorry that this is a much longer post than I intended. I have tried to summarise what is known about The Eddy family.


Heywood you've summarized very well  :)
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: Lisajb on Thursday 18 August 22 09:53 BST (UK)
 SummerCrush - have you tried ordering the Eliza Eddy birth certificate directly from the GRO? You can do this online, just need to register.  I think the details you need were given quite early on in the thread.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Thursday 18 August 22 10:16 BST (UK)
Summercrush, you write

I have tried buying Eliza birth certificate from the Records Office but they are saying they have no record of an Eliza Eddy being born 1861 in Bristol despite me telling them and sending them the marriage certificate I found online,

Eliza Eddy’s birth was registered in Clifton not Bristol.
Perhaps that is why they say there is no record.


Added
There is though a baptism online (will be posted somewhere on this thread) which shows parents Albert Eddy and Sarah Hannah. Residence is Lambwell  Court - again mentioned earlier re 1861 and Hotwells.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Thursday 18 August 22 11:18 BST (UK)
SummerCrush - have you tried ordering the Eliza Eddy birth certificate directly from the GRO? You can do this online, just need to register.  I think the details you need were given quite early on in the thread.

I've already stated that The GRO has NO record of a birth for an Eliza Norris or Eliza Eddy born 1861 in Bristol, I tried ordering it over 6 months ago and had my money refunded back to me as they couldn't find a birth record or copy of a birth certificate for her.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Thursday 18 August 22 11:20 BST (UK)
Summercrush, you write

I have tried buying Eliza birth certificate from the Records Office but they are saying they have no record of an Eliza Eddy being born 1861 in Bristol despite me telling them and sending them the marriage certificate I found online,

Eliza Eddy’s birth was registered in Clifton not Bristol.
Perhaps that is why they say there is no record.

Added
There is though a baptism online (will be posted somewhere on this thread) which shows parents Albert Eddy and Sarah Hannah. Residence is Lambwell  Court - again mentioned earlier re 1861 and Hotwells.

Clifton is Bristol{to be more clear Clifton is an area of Bristol, its what is now known as Millionaires Row} as houses are now worth anything from £250,000 up to over £5 million. its where Carol Vordeman used to live until she put her home on the market, its where Bristol City Football Players live, its where other millionaires live
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Thursday 18 August 22 11:28 BST (UK)
It was a different registration district at that time though.
Eliza was registered in Clifton.
If you are requesting a birth in Bristol, it won’t be there.

Her baptism has details though as well.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Thursday 18 August 22 11:42 BST (UK)
Summercrush, you write

I have tried buying Eliza birth certificate from the Records Office but they are saying they have no record of an Eliza Eddy being born 1861 in Bristol despite me telling them and sending them the marriage certificate I found online,

Eliza Eddy’s birth was registered in Clifton not Bristol.
Perhaps that is why they say there is no record.


Added
There is though a baptism online (will be posted somewhere on this thread) which shows parents Albert Eddy and Sarah Hannah. Residence is Lambwell  Court - again mentioned earlier re 1861 and Hotwells.

yeah Eliza Eddy born 1861 in Clifton, Bristol on her marriage certificate to Alfred John Norris, her father is Thomas Eddy his job profession was a labourer but he was deceased at time of Eliza's wedding.

also I believe now that Sarah is not Eliza's mother purely based on the fact that Sarah's father on her marriage certificate to Albert Eddy is Philip but I can't find any marriage certificate or marriage record for a Sarah Hannah Chapple and Thomas Eddy in Clifton, Bristol but the only marriage record I can find for a Thomas Henry Eddy is to a woman called Mary Ann Boxell{originally born in Cornwall} and they married 1886
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Thursday 18 August 22 11:44 BST (UK)
It was a different registration district at that time though.
Eliza was registered in Clifton.
If you are requesting a birth in Bristol, it won’t be there.

Her baptism has details though as well.

what are you NOT getting here .... Clifton is Bristol {ITS AN AREA in BRISTOL, its a Bristol Postcode}
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Thursday 18 August 22 11:51 BST (UK)
There is no need for the capitals.

I understand and have already referenced the areas of Clifton and Bristol.
I am trying to help you.
If you look for a birth for Eliza Eddy in 1861, you will see the registration district. Free BMD and other sites will give you the information from the indexes.
GRO, as you know, will give you the index information plus the mother’s maiden name.

Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: djm297 on Thursday 18 August 22 12:52 BST (UK)
From Find My Past:

Eliza Eddy born Jan-Mar 1861, mother's maiden name is Chapple; Registration District is Clifton.

Clifton was a separate Registration District between 1837 and 1877.

Also from Find My Past:

Eliza Eddy bapt. 3 Feb 1861, St Peter's, Clifton Wood- Father is  Albert, Mother is Sarah Hannah

djm297
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 18 August 22 14:21 BST (UK)
From Find My Past:

Eliza Eddy born Jan-Mar 1861, mother's maiden name is Chapple; Registration District is Clifton.

Clifton was a separate Registration District between 1837 and 1877.

Also from Find My Past:

Eliza Eddy bapt. 3 Feb 1861, St Peter's, Clifton Wood- Father is  Albert, Mother is Sarah Hannah

djm297

I don't think the actual baptism image for Eliza Eddy was added to the thread so I've added it and also the one for Henry & John Coleman

This doesn’t address the fact as to why Eliza Eddy father was named Thomas on her

19 May 1888 marriage to Alfred John Norris rather than Albert but one of the witnesses was Henry Coleman

14 Oct 1888 marriage Henry Eddy Coleman father Henry John Coleman
witnesses  Alfred John & Eliza NORRIS

Witnesses to marriages can be family members but relationships not stated so one could make an assumption from the 1871 census records that Eliza Eddy & Henry Eddy Coleman are half siblings both having the same mother Sarah Hannah CHAPPEL but different father's
Eliza's (Albert Eddy) & Henry Eddy Coleman (Henry John Coleman) and that Sarah Hannah Eddy had children with Henry John Coleman out of wedlock

All three births registered as COLEMAN with same mmn CHAPPLE(EL) but have the middle name EDDY  - Henry b1867, John b1873 d1873 & John b1875 d1882)

Sarah Hannah Eddy could only legally marry Henry John Coleman when her first husband had died - as previously mentioned no death found for an ALBERT Eddy only one for a THOMAS Eddy in 1877 - you would need to obtain this certificate to confirm and hopefully may contain useful information regarding the informant.

Henry Eddy Coleman and his brother John Eddy Coleman were baptised together parents Henry & Sarah Hannah Coleman (details have been posted)

Sarah Hannah Eddy did not marry Henry John Coleman until Dec 1877 maybe that's why Henry & John both have the middle name  Eddy and their surname registered as Coleman

1904 marriage Herbert John Norris (son of Alfred John & Eliza) to Lilian a witness to that marriage was Thomas Edward James COCKLE

You mentioned at the beginning of your post that Alfred & Eliza Norris daughter also named Eliza married Thomas E J Cockle

I hope this may be of some help to you  :)

EDIT to add - just came across this newspaper article which looks to confirm that the
John Eddy Coleman born 1875 who died 1882 is probably the son of Henry Coleman & Sarah Hannah  (nee Chappel)

Doesn’t mention any parents names - but gives an address Aldersky Lane

Western Daily Press 13 February 1882
Fatal Accident to a Boy
John Eddy Coleman (6) living 2 Aldersky Lane admitted to General Hospital suffering for serious injuries caused by falling on a stool whilst getting out of bed.........he died same day

Western Daily Press 15 February 1882
Inquest Verdict was "Accidental Death", son of a labourer living at 2 Aldersky Lane

1881 census Henry COLMAN , Sarah, Eliza 20, Henry 13, JOHN age 5 &
Robert, Rebecca & Mary Ann Chappel all lodging at Alderskey Lane

ADDED

I've have added the signatures of
Henry Eddy Coleman (Groom marriage Oct 1888) and
Henry Coleman (witness to Eliza Eddy's marriage May 1888) - to me these signatures look very similar
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Wednesday 24 August 22 15:24 BST (UK)
4x deaths registered in Bristol for an Albert Eddy

1st: Albert E Eddy born 1886 and died 1945 {he married Emily Cottle}

2nd: Albert E Eddy born 1903 and died 1922{died aged 19}

3rd: Albert Henry Eddy born 12th March 1923 and died 1981{married in Kingsbridge, Devon in 1954 to Margaret M Spooner}

4th: Albert George Eddy {no birth year on the record} but his death date on said record is 8th January 2015.{married Jennifer Blight 1970 in Portsmouth but marriage registered twice as Jennifer Blight and Jennifer Eddy}

also ordered two birth certificates for an Eliza Eddy with the parents of Thomas Eddy and Sarah Hannah Chapple and also one for an Eliza Eddy with the parents of Albert Eddy and Sarah Hannah Chapple with both Eliza born in Bristol in 1861 and I've had a refund as the General Records Office can't find a birth certificate for either name.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 24 August 22 15:35 BST (UK)
As mentioned a few times previously. There is this birth.

Free BMD https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

1861 March quarter Clifton vol 6a pg 65

From Find My Past:

Eliza Eddy born Jan-Mar 1861, mother's maiden name is Chapple; Registration District is Clifton.

Clifton was a separate Registration District between 1837 and 1877.

Also from Find My Past:

Eliza Eddy bapt. 3 Feb 1861, St Peter's, Clifton Wood- Father is  Albert, Mother is Sarah Hannah

djm297
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 24 August 22 15:38 BST (UK)
I am hesitant to post these records for the birth and death as they have been mentioned earlier but as I explained earlier, we are all, I am sure trying to be of assistance. I hope you accept that.

The death that seems more relevant is from Free BMD

1877 Bristol December quarter vol 6a pg 3

Thomas Eddy

Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Wednesday 24 August 22 15:44 BST (UK)
there is also a death record for an Albert Eddy born 1823 and died 1882 in Ashburton, Devon.{he did marry but they had no children}
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Wednesday 24 August 22 15:50 BST (UK)
As mentioned a few times previously. There is this birth.

Free BMD https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

1861 March quarter Clifton vol 6a pg 65

From Find My Past: Eliza Eddy born Jan-Mar 1861, mother's maiden name is Chapple; Registration District is Clifton. Clifton was a separate Registration District between 1837 and 1877.
Also from Find My Past:Eliza Eddy bapt. 3 Feb 1861, St Peter's, Clifton Wood- Father is  Albert, Mother is Sarah Hannah. djm297


I know about the birth record as I already had it, but The General Records Office still can't find a Birth Certificate for an Eliza Eddy born to Thomas Eddy or Sarah Hannah Chapple in Bristol{where it states Eliza was born} or a Eliza Eddy born to parents Albert Eddy and Sarah Hannah Chapple despite birth record being online.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 24 August 22 16:05 BST (UK)
My thoughts are that they were looking in Bristol registration district rather than Clifton registration district.

If you have given the right district, Clifton , plus the quarter, volume and page, then may be for some reason it isn’t there.

If, however, you are asking for a look up for Bristol, then it won’t be there as it is the wrong district.

It is only the census etc which says she was born in Bristol.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: Ladyhawk on Wednesday 24 August 22 16:07 BST (UK)

As mentioned a few times previously. There is this birth.

Free BMD https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

1861 March quarter Clifton vol 6a pg 65


From Find My Past: Eliza Eddy born Jan-Mar 1861, mother's maiden name is Chapple; Registration District is Clifton. Clifton was a separate Registration District between 1837 and 1877.

Also from Find My Past:Eliza Eddy bapt. 3 Feb 1861, St Peter's, Clifton Wood- Father is  Albert, Mother is Sarah Hannah. djm297

I know about the birth record as I already had it, but

The General Records Office still can't find a Birth Certificate for an Eliza Eddy born to Thomas Eddy or Sarah Hannah Chapple in Bristol{where it states Eliza was born} or a Eliza Eddy born to parents Albert Eddy and Sarah Hannah Chapple despite birth record being online.


I don't think you are going to find a birth certificate with her father's name Thomas - all the information posted points to her father being Albert even though the name Thomas was named as father on the marriage certificate

Did you order a pdf copy via GRO indexes of the 1861 Clifton birth for Eliza Eddy with mmn Chappel ?

Is it possible for you to add a small image snippet of the b/c you already have or just type up the details.

DOB
Address where born?
Who registered the birth?
The address?
Name & occupation of father?

Are you discounting all the information at reply 89 - ie Eliza Eddy born 1861 has a half sibling Henry Eddy Coleman and their mother is Sarah Hannah Chappel and they have different father's

I am hesitant to post these records for the birth and death as they have been mentioned earlier but as I explained earlier, we are all, I am sure trying to be of assistance. I hope you accept that.

The death that seems more relevant is from Free BMD

1877 Bristol December quarter vol 6a pg 3

Thomas Eddy


I agree with you Heywood as previously mentioned obtaining a pdf from GRO indexes of that death record to confirm one way of the other

Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Wednesday 24 August 22 17:08 BST (UK)
I don't think the actual baptism image for Eliza Eddy was added to the thread so I've added it and also the one for Henry & John Coleman. This doesn’t address the fact as to why Eliza Eddy father was named Thomas on her

19 May 1888 marriage to Alfred John Norris rather than Albert but one of the witnesses was Henry Coleman

14 Oct 1888 marriage Henry Eddy Coleman father Henry John Coleman
witnesses  Alfred John & Eliza NORRIS

Witnesses to marriages can be family members but relationships not stated so one could make an assumption from the 1871 census records that Eliza Eddy & Henry Eddy Coleman are half siblings both having the same mother Sarah Hannah CHAPPEL but different father's
Eliza's (Albert Eddy) & Henry Eddy Coleman (Henry John Coleman) and that Sarah Hannah Eddy had children with Henry John Coleman out of wedlock

All three births registered as COLEMAN with same mmn CHAPPLE(EL) but have the middle name EDDY  - Henry b1867, John b1873 d1873 & John b1875 d1882)

Sarah Hannah Eddy could only legally marry Henry John Coleman when her first husband had died - as previously mentioned no death found for an ALBERT Eddy only one for a THOMAS Eddy in 1877 - you would need to obtain this certificate to confirm and hopefully may contain useful information regarding the informant.

Henry Eddy Coleman and his brother John Eddy Coleman were baptised together parents Henry & Sarah Hannah Coleman (details have been posted)

Sarah Hannah Eddy did not marry Henry John Coleman until Dec 1877 maybe that's why Henry & John both have the middle name  Eddy and their surname registered as Coleman

1904 marriage Herbert John Norris (son of Alfred John & Eliza) to Lilian a witness to that marriage was Thomas Edward James COCKLE

You mentioned at the beginning of your post that Alfred & Eliza Norris daughter also named Eliza married Thomas E J Cockle

I hope this may be of some help to you  :)

EDIT to add - just came across this newspaper article which looks to confirm that the
John Eddy Coleman born 1875 who died 1882 is probably the son of Henry Coleman & Sarah Hannah  (nee Chappel)

Doesn’t mention any parents names - but gives an address Aldersky Lane

Western Daily Press 13 February 1882
Fatal Accident to a Boy
John Eddy Coleman (6) living 2 Aldersky Lane admitted to General Hospital suffering for serious injuries caused by falling on a stool whilst getting out of bed.........he died same day

Western Daily Press 15 February 1882
Inquest Verdict was "Accidental Death", son of a labourer living at 2 Aldersky Lane

1881 census Henry COLMAN , Sarah, Eliza 20, Henry 13, JOHN age 5 &
Robert, Rebecca & Mary Ann Chappel all lodging at Alderskey Lane

ADDED

I've have added the signatures of
Henry Eddy Coleman (Groom marriage Oct 1888) and
Henry Coleman (witness to Eliza Eddy's marriage May 1888) - to me these signatures look very similar

Thomas Edward James COCKLE Eliza Norris {born 1890 Bristol}, she had a brother called Herbert John Norris{born 17th January 1904 and died 29th December 1988 at Burnham War Memorial Hospital in Burnham-On-Sea, Somerset}.

Thomas Cockle and Eliza Norris had 1 son Donald Cockle now deceased, he married Amy B Collins{also deceased}

Donald and Amy had two children a daughter who is still living and a son who is also still living.





Herbert John Norris married Lilian Jane Andrews{born 20th September 1902 in Bristol and died 10 Jun 1980at 24 Braunton Road, Bristol, Gloucestershire, England

Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 24 August 22 19:01 BST (UK)
You have obviously researched the family a lot and accumulated many records. (I think I said that in your other thread  ;))

Have you found the Clifton record to apply for the photocopy on GRO?

Do you think you might be persuaded re Thomas Eddy. His death might confirm or deny that he could be Albert. It would depend on the knowledge of the informant though, I suppose.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Tuesday 18 October 22 09:38 BST (UK)
You have obviously researched the family a lot and accumulated many records. (I think I said that in your other thread  ;))

Have you found the Clifton record to apply for the photocopy on GRO?

Do you think you might be persuaded re Thomas Eddy. His death might confirm or deny that he could be Albert. It would depend on the knowledge of the informant though, I suppose.

no I haven't applied for the photocopy of the GRO yet
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Tuesday 18 October 22 09:45 BST (UK)
I have found a 1901 census for Sarah Hannah Chapple and it states she is living alone under her birth maiden name, she is aged 64{born about 1837} and looks like she is living in Cowes Street, Barnstaple, Devon.

Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Tuesday 18 October 22 09:47 BST (UK)
yet on the 1911 census it states she has been married for 46 years living with Henry Coleman {aged 75 born about 1836}

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/sharing/146063?token=IRDKfO1u20Z5ahUkA6c4KQ6o2xtLqIhhFoQcCzs0%2Fho%3D
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 18 October 22 10:15 BST (UK)
I have found a 1901 census for Sarah Hannah Chapple and it states she is living alone under her birth maiden name, she is aged 64{born about 1837} and looks like she is living in Cowes Street, Barnstaple, Devon.

Likely to be at 1901 2377/67/22
But Henry us listed as John. I think that is hus middle name?
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Tuesday 18 October 22 10:44 BST (UK)
I have found a 1901 census for Sarah Hannah Chapple and it states she is living alone under her birth maiden name, she is aged 64{born about 1837} and looks like she is living in Cowes Street, Barnstaple, Devon.

Likely to be at 1901 2377/67/22
But Henry us listed as John. I think that is hus middle name?

yes but how can Sarah Hannah have been married to Henry Coleman for 46 years on the 1911 census under Sarah Coleman and then be living on her own in a different location under her maiden name ''Chapple'' in 1901 it doesn't make sense
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 18 October 22 11:14 BST (UK)
It’s not her in the 1901 you are quoting.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Friday 28 October 22 23:56 BST (UK)
well I found Albert Thomas Eddy originally born in Bath but his Baptism takes place in 1891 {30 years after the birth of his Daughter Eliza Eddy in 1861} so there is no way Albert could be Eliza's father.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Saturday 29 October 22 08:11 BST (UK)
well I found Albert Thomas Eddy originally born in Bath but his Baptism takes place in 1891 {30 years after the birth of his Daughter Eliza Eddy in 1861} so there is no way Albert could be Eliza's father.

Hello again.
The only baptism I see for that name is a child born in that year. However, I only have access to certain records.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: SummerCrush on Monday 31 October 22 23:42 GMT (UK)
well I found Albert Thomas Eddy originally born in Bath but his Baptism takes place in 1891 {30 years after the birth of his Daughter Eliza Eddy in 1861} so there is no way Albert could be Eliza's father.

Hello again.The only baptism I see for that name is a child born in that year. However, I only have access to certain records

hey Heywood sorry for the delayed response back to you you are correct there is an Eliza Eddy born 1891 but she is the sister of Herbert John Norris {my Great Gramp's father} and Eliza Eddy born 1891 her parents were Alfred John Norris and Eliza Eddy, and Eliza Edddy born 1891 married Thomas EJ Cockle{I have all these relatives already on my family tree} yet Albert's military records card lists his name as Albert A Eddy not Albert Thomas or Albert T or Thomas Albert or Thomas A Eddy that's another reason why I believe he's not the father.

the Eliza Eddy whose parents were supposed to be Albert Thomas Eddy and Sarah Hannah Chapple born 1861 {her father Albert originally born in Bath but his baptism was in Bristol in 1891 which is why I'm guessing Albert must have been born the same year of his baptism which would mean he can't be Eliza Eddy born 1861 father}. I'm think as the Eddy surname back then were mostly born down in Cornwall that Eliza Eddy born 1861 father was originally from Cornwall or was based in Cornwall for the military.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 01 November 22 07:24 GMT (UK)
Thanks.
Title: Re: trying to trace the mother of Eliza Eddy 1861 - 1936
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 01 November 22 15:40 GMT (UK)

yet Albert's military records card lists his name as Albert A Eddy not Albert Thomas or Albert T or Thomas Albert or Thomas A Eddy that's another reason why I believe he's not the father.


Is this the medal card you are referring to?

Albert A Eddy
Military 1914-1920
Regiment or Corps:   Devonshire Regiment, the Royal Welsh (Welch) Fusiliers
Regimental Number:   291667, 93507

Have you found his Army Records giving full name, age, place of birth, address, occupation, nok etc...?