RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: dragonfly13 on Tuesday 09 August 22 23:38 BST (UK)
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I am an absolute beginner at geneology. I only just started this past March. I HAVE been quite diligent and spend hours at it every day. One of my cousins thinks that dear old grand dad only married once. My reply to that is “Then where did this half great uncle come from on ancestry.com thru lines?”
The facts as I know them:
2nd GGF is Henry E Brown b. 24 Jan 1852 in Baden, Germany d. 2 Aug 1927 in Charlotte, MI
Marries Rosa Katharina Disher on 1 Feb 1873 in Lucas County, Ohio. She was b. 26 Mar 1846 in Diemtigen, Bern, Switzerland (and so was her sister: Susan Katharina Disher on 26 May 1846). Their parents, Christian Teuscher Disher and Magdalina Minnig, took them, along with their six siblings sometime between Dec 1849 to Oct 1850 to Providence Township, Lucas County, Ohio.
Rosa’s sister Susan marries Henry’s brother George W Brown in 1869. There was yet another Disher family living near Henry and George’s family farm - headed by Christian David Disher. HIS daughter, Clarissa Disher married John Brown, brother of Henry and George.
Back to Henry E Brown. He married Rosa in February 1873 and their first child Mary was born 3 months later. And then in October 1874, his daughter Minnie (my GGM) - with my 2nd GGM Louise Hettinger - was born out of wedlock. He went on to have 7 more children with Rosa. One of them is my half great uncle according to thru lines - Allen Louis Brown b. 1904. He kept his Rosa family in Van Wert County, Ohio.
In June 1876, he married Louise Hettinger. And had four more children with her. I think that Louise was the wife he kept secret, and he kept her and the children in Wood County, Ohio. When he died 2 Aug 1927 in Charlotte, Eaton County, Michigan (he and Rosa had moved there). He was buried in Van Wert County, Ohio. His Find A Grave Memorial # is 79929244 and the url is https:/www.findagrave.com/memorial/79929244/henry-brown
If anyone could weigh in on this, I would be very grateful. As I imagine you could guess, I don’t have tons of geneological skills in my toolbox. But I have the most expensive membership at ancestry.com. I could start a fake branch of my family tree for one of you in an attempt to help.
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We have 2 Henry E Brown's here
Pension application for Louise Brown WIDOW of Henry E Brown was applied for on 8 March 1909 in Ohio
If your relative is Minnie daughter of Henry Brown and Louisa/ Louise then that is your correct family.
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The Henry E Brown who married Rosa you say died 1927 in Michigan is a separate family
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They have different birthdays.
1900 census Providence Ohio
Henry E Brown born November 1852
Louise born September 1858
Charles H born February 1888
German spelling for Brown is Braun previous records may reflect
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1900 Van Wert Ohio
Henry E Brown born January 1852
Rosy December 1849
chlidren etc.
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Thank you so much for your quick response, amondg! I noticed that on one of the census records he gave his birthdate as Jan 1852; and on the other one it was Nov 1852. That was the only time the census taker found him at home at both addresses (if my theory is correct). Could the different birthdates be an attempt to muddy the waters on his part?
Also….I have these dna connections to one child of Rosa Disher and ancestry.com calls him a half great uncle.
I may just totally be out on a limb but that dna is what started me wondering. Is there any help I can offer you in return?
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It's not beyond the realm of possibility that he was a bigamist, but I'm not quite sure what evidence there is to support that these are all the same Henry. I have a Henry Brown from Ohio in my family tree too, so it's certainly a common name.
We have 2 Henry E Brown's here
Pension application for Louise Brown WIDOW of Henry E Brown was applied for on 8 March 1909 in Ohio
I think that pension application might be another Henry E. Brown with another Louise. It's under Civil War pensions, and a Henry Brown born 1852 would have been too young to be in the Civil War. Even if he was faking his age, he only would have been 13 at the end of the war. Seems unlikely that he would have passed for an adult.
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And….just to stir the pot a little more, one of my cousins who shares Henry as an ancestor with me believes that our Henry died in 1901 in Toledo, Ohio. Which makes it impossible for him to be the father of Ruth Brown born in 1905. I know Ruth is related to me. Her sister Minnie is my great grandmother. Ruth had an illegitimate child in 1922. Said child was adopted by the paternal aunt and her husband. I have several rather close cousins from the out of wedlock child! It took those cousins and I a bit of struggling to finally figure out how we were related. Sexual misbehavior seemed to run in the family. I talked to my half 2nd cousin the other night and found that her grandfather (son of Henry and Rosa) lost his wife when he had 3 young children. So he hired a nanny. And four years later, he and nanny married about a month before their first child was born.
I swear I’m not making this up, even though it sounds like a good soap opera plot….
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If there are two Henry E Browns, is there any chance they are cousins? Maybe that might explain your DNA puzzle?
I don't know what the convention was in Germany, but in England at least, at the time, it would not have been considered strange to give two cousins the same name, particularly if there was an important person or family member they wanted to honour.
So if both your Henry E Browns are from Germany, perhaps they were related but not the same person?
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I’m in the middle of another project but popped in here during a break. Perhaps I haven’t given enough attention to your first post, but i think you mentioned that Brown brothers married Disher sisters? I think when DNA matches are given there are two or three possibilities of a connection, such as (purely as an example):
2nd cousin or
1st cousin, once removed or
half aunt or uncle
Is it possible that the DNA connection you have could be just a 1st or 2nd cousin and not a half-uncle?
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If there are two Henry E Browns, is there any chance they are cousins? Maybe that might explain your DNA puzzle?
I don't know what the convention was in Germany, but in England at least, at the time, it would not have been considered strange to give two cousins the same name, particularly if there was an important person or family member they wanted to honour.
So if both your Henry E Browns are from Germany, perhaps they were related but not the same person?
Same was true in Canada, at least with my families. I have a grandfather James and his son, James H and his son James S, and James H’s two nephews, James E.
Two cousins (in the three families) were also named William (and William), and Emily (and Emily).
I wouldn’t want to go to their family get togethers - it must have been confusing.
They all had the same surname.
PS James was handed down since at least the 1740’s, William was handed down from the wife’s side since the 1720s and the Emily’s were named after (I think) a second wife who didn’t birth any children but helped raise James H and his siblings.
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…I talked to my half 2nd cousin the other night and found that her grandfather (son of Henry and Rosa) lost his wife when he had 3 young children. So he hired a nanny. And four years later, he and nanny married about a month before their first child was born.
I swear I’m not making this up, even though it sounds like a good soap opera plot….
Welcome to RootsChat, by the way. :)
I would imagine a lot of us have some odd stories to tell. I won’t get into (the probably boring) details but an ancestor ended up having 20 children with two wives. The first wife died right after giving birth and I suppose her husband couldn’t raise 12 children on his own so he married a young lady within a year of his wife’s death. The lady was supposedly at one time a (girl?)friend of his eldest son. :-\
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Lisa in California, shellyesq, Stanwix England and amondg - thank you so much for your thoughts and experience shared. I just cannot push Henry E Brown’s family line past his father with any certainty at this point in time. So..no way to discover another Henry who is a cousin. Maybe someday?
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Hello, all. I have returned to stir the proverbial pot. I have done quite a bit more digging.
Henry E Brown - the same Henry who died in 1901 is buried in the Mount Pleasant Cemetery in Neapolis, Lucas County, Ohio. And so is my 2nd great grandmother, Louise Hettinger who died in 1928. Their graves don’t show up when I search Find A Grave. But I know that they are there, thanks to the Northwestern Ohio Geneological Society - Cemetery Project Committee.
They produced the document “Mount Pleasant and Oak Hill Cemeteries Tombstone Transcriptions” , held in the digital collections of the Toledo Lucas County Public Library. And Henry E and Louise are on the transcriptions list.
What interests me is that Henry’s two brothers George and John plus their two wives (one a sister to Henry’s other wife Rosa and the other one a first cousin once removed from Rosa) are also buried in the same cemetery. Hmmmmm.
Last but not least, I found the death record for the man who died in 1901. He was listed as a patient at the Toledo State Hospital, formerly known as the Toledo Asylum for the Insane. Could this have been some poor man who had no relatives to claim him?
I also figured out the two places where he kept the two families were only 28 miles apart. He lived with Rosa Disher in Providence Township, Lucas County, Ohio from marriage in 1973 until sometime between 1890 and 1900 when he moved Rosa and their children to Van Wert, Ohio. And sometime during that same ten years, he moved Louise and their children from Milbury, Wood County, Ohio into Providence Township - the same place that he moved Rosa away from!
And I HAVE looked for a cousin also named Henry. It seems more and more likely to me that he was a bigamist who faked a death in 1901 but lived until 1927 with his first and legal wife.
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List/Index of names can be seen here but there's no reference regarding dates, relationships or anything else needed to work out who is who etc. i.e. what proof do you have of their relationships?
https://ohiomemory.org/digital/collection/p16007coll33/id/150205/rec/18
Have you found obits or any other info. tying the above to each other?
Not sure how one could have 'faked a death' :-\
Annie
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Faking a death when a death record and a burial was involved seems far-fetched to me. Do you think he got whoever reported deaths at a state hospital to falsely claim he was there and died and the cemetery went along with the fakery? Or he just randomly happened to know that a guy with his same name and age was in a state hospital and had died, so pretending that was him would get him out of his awkward bigamy situation?
Find a Grave only has listings that volunteers add, so someone not being on there doesn't mean much.
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No obit, but I do have the death record for each. Here I was thinking I was so clever at finding that list of tombstone transcriptions. Pretty obscure to my beginner family historian’s way of thinking.
Maybe my brain is more fertile at thinking like a criminal’s than the average bear’s but here goes:
A man who wanted to decisively sever his connection to a woman who believed that she was married to him could have:
Told the truth - I don’t think Henry would even consider this one.
Just disappeared and left her to wonder.
Faked his death with help of a buddy, or maybe a brother
How do you fake a death? Find someone who just died with no relative to claim him. Slip some cash to a low paid doctor working at the insane asylum. I mean, who got harmed? The poor dead guy got buried for free, right? Have your buddy break news of the death to the wife. Tell her that the body/face are really disturbing to view. Wouldn’t she want to remember Henry as he was in life? This body would produce such a shock to her womanly sensibilities…etc.
I already think Louise was gullible and too trusting. Henry got her pregnant when she was only 15.
As far as definitive proof of all this - how would I get it? If I’m missing some obvious way to actually prove this, would you point me in the right direction? I’m not trying to be argumentative here. I’m truly puzzled. What additional proof would I need to find?
I just think that Henry’s story gets curiouser and curiouser. Every time I uncover something it gets more like a soap opera. He died in an insane asylum??!!
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To answer shellyesq, I don’t think that it would necessarily be that complicated to do. A reasonably intelligent person would be able to guess that a doctor working for the state was not well paid. If I am correct about Henry E, he was prosperous enough to support two families. But maybe was tiring of it. Find a doctor who was bribable. If caught, the doc could always explain that he must have gotten distracted and put a mistaken entry into the death ledger while working late into the night. The body didn’t have to be the same age or name as Henry. The death ledger entry DID.
A smooth talking “relative” of the patient who made all cemetery and funeral home arrangements and paid for everything up front would have smoothed the way.
Crime has been happening for hundreds of years. It could have happened in my family. I have been pushed into some of this thinking by the records as they stand. Can anyone explain how Henry’s brothers and their wives (both related to his first and only legal wife Rosa) are this cemetery with him and Louisa? I believe that she outlived those brothers and their wives.
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I just think that Henry’s story gets curiouser and curiouser. Every time I uncover something it gets more like a soap opera. He died in an insane asylum??!!
It wasn't that uncommon for people in those days to be put in an insane asylum due to something like dementia or Alzheimer's disease.
Lots of people in the same area wound up in the same cemetery. Sometimes family members offered an available plot that they owned when it was needed. It doesn't necessarily mean anything.
I think you are reaching with all of this.
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You should write a book, it'd be a best seller ;D
"No obit, but I do have the death record for each. Here I was thinking I was so clever at finding that list of tombstone transcriptions. Pretty obscure to my beginner family historian’s way of thinking."
Do you have marriage certs, birth certs. etc. to piece everything together?
There's an awful lot of important info. missing in your story here for us to try & make sense of things & your wild imagination is taking up being able to try & work out the truth.
Henry E Brown...The info. provided doesn't tell us anything about him apart from what you think.
It would be an idea to list all known facts on Henry, including all info. on all Baptisms, BMDs connected to him i.e. names, dates, places, sponsors, witnesses, occupation, in a timeline & give us the chance to see what's actually occurred over time rather than being drawn into. a fabricated story ???
Annie
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I’m not sure what you mean by BMD? It wasn’t listed in the Rootschat abbreviation list. I will try to work out how to post the items you request.
Guilty as charged of a wild imagination…..
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BMDs = Births, Marriages & Deaths
Annie
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Thank you, Rosineath for the BMD explanation. I thought I had already provided all that in my original post starting this thread. If people want to see all the documents that I have, could they look at my family tree on Ancestry? I just made it public again, but changed the name to “caveat emptor White Family Tree”. I have copy of Henry and Louise Hettinger’s marriage documentation as her profile picture. Does that help? Or should I rewrite all the info in my op?
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What I was asking was, the info. on all docs. which you think relate to your Henry...
As an example, the FAG link you posted doesn't give his middle name or initial, ditto with the link I posted, no middle name or initial i.e. all info. is important & do you know what his middle initial 'E' stands for?
There's no info. from you regarding his occ. on all Baptisms, BMDs or census' or any other info. found.
It would be an idea to post a link to your tree, you could use the 'ShrinkLink' at the bottom of the page.
Annie
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Henry E Brown was born in 1852 to parents John George Brown and Mary Miller. Henry had two sisters, along with two brothers: John M and George W. I do not have Henry’s birth certificate, but his birth date Jan 25 1852 is listed upon his 1927 death certificate from Eaton County, Michigan. I do have a copy of that.
Henry’s brother John M married a neighbor: Clarissa Disher in 1867. Henry’s brother George W married Susan Katharina Disher in 1869. Susan and Clarissa were first cousins once removed.
Henry married Rosa Katharina Disher in 1873, three months before their first child (a daughter) was born.
Both Rosa and her sister in law Susan Katharina Disher (they were also sisters) were born in Switzerland and arrived in the US in 1861. The arrival in 1861 is mentioned on both the 1900 and 1920 Federal Census, I have Rosa’s baptismal record from Switzerland and also her marriage record to Henry. Both Rosa and Henry are recorded on several of their children’s birth and even marriage records.
Henry and Rosa lived in Providence Township, Lucas County, Ohio from their marriage in1973 until sometime between the 1890 and 1900 Federal Census; when Henry moved Rosa and the children to Hoaglin, Van Wert County, Ohio. And he moved them again, sometime between the 1910 and the 1920 census to Charlotte, Eaton County, Michigan. His death certificate from Charlotte, Eaton County, Michigan states he died August 2 1927. Thru lines on ancestry.com show that the son of Henry and Rosa: Allen L Brown was my half great uncle and the half sibling of my great grandmother Minnie M Brown. Allen’s grandaughter shows up as my half second cousin, once removed. We have spoken.
My great grandmother Minnie M Brown, mentioned just above, was born out of wedlock on Oct 10 1874. Her mother, Louise Hettinger, had only just turned sixteen the month before. So, Louise was fifteen when she became pregnant. Thru Lines shows that her father was Henry E Brown and her mother was Louise Hettinger. Henry and Louise didn’t marry until June 1876 when Minnie was 20 months old. I have a copy of the ledger page which records their marriage. (Ohio, U.S., County Marriage Records, 1774-1993)
Henry and Louise went on to have three more children during what I believe was their bigamous marriage. I have several birth records and marriage records for them showing Louise and Henry as parents.
For the 1900 Federal Census - the only one which found Henry at BOTH family homes - he gave his dob as January 1852 to the census taker in Van Wert, Ohio where he lived with Rosa. In Providence Township at his home with Louisa, the dob was November 1852.
Then, I have a death recorded at Toledo State Hospital (formerly the Toledo Asylum for the Insane). It shows that Henry E Brown, age 48, died on August 25, 1901. If Henry was born in November 1852, then he would be 48 then. I believe the cause of death was a heart attack.
The Henry E Brown who died at the insane asylum was buried at Mount Pleasant Cemetery in Neapolis, Lucas County, Ohio. Years later in 1928, his wife Louise was buried there - at least according to the list of tombstone transcriptions recorded by the Northwester Geneological Society - Cemetery Project Committee.
And in that same cemetery are buried his brothers John and George. One of them married to Rosa Disher’s first cousin once removed and one married to Rosa’s sister.
I hope that this is the type of timeline that you were looking for?
I was under the impression that rootschat considered parish registers to be solid sources of information. So I thought my list of tombstone transcriptions made it more likely than not that they were buried in Mt. Pleasant, since his brothers and their wives are buried there according to Find A Grave?
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P.S. His occupation was Farmer, as were his father and brothers. The only census which was different was in 1880, with Louise in Milbury, Wood County, Ohio where his occupation was “works in woods”.
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Annie, the only url I see when I’m at ancestry.com is…..ancestry.com in the url spot. I can follow instructions fairly well. If you tell me how to drag relevant portions of my tree over here for all to see, I will strive mightily to do so.
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"I hope that this is the type of timeline that you were looking for?"
Not quite as it reads like a novel rather than a timeline i.e. difficult to see at a glance what happened when, where & with whom.
There's info. missing which can only be found on actual certs. rather than indexes such as sponsors, witnesses, addresses or other.
I don't know what info. would be on those marriages i.e. what info. is given on both marriages which make you believe they're both your Henry?
"Henry and Louise didn’t marry until June 1876 I have a copy of the ledger page which records their marriage. (Ohio, U.S., County Marriage Records, 1774-1993)"
Does the above give age, occupation, parents, witnesses, addresses...
There's something not right somewhere, the same man can't have died in 2 different places at 2 different times & you need to get more proof of what's happened.
You need both marriage certificates, both death certificates to see who were the informants, addresses or anything else which gives clues.
Annie
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I have been reading this with great interest but no great insight. Just one question. Who are the Henry E Brown age 19 and Elva Brown 18 living at Swanton, Lucas Ohio in the 1870 census. They are with a William 56, and mary Naylor 35. Also there is a Richard Dale 67?
I see that your Henry age 18 is with his parents in 1870 Providence, Lucas, Ohio but without the middle initial E to his name
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Annie, the only url I see when I’m at ancestry.com is…..ancestry.com in the url spot. I can follow instructions fairly well. If you tell me how to drag relevant portions of my tree over here for all to see, I will strive mightily to do so.
I don't know how to 'drag' info. to here but it wouldn't help much as it's the info. from certs. which are important.
What is the exact info. on the BC of Minnie M Brown?
You're looking for answers to questions you've already answered in your own mind but without any real proof.
It's good when going through our family history to 'imagine' different scenarios &/or when typing up a 'family history', I guess the odd thoughts of our own can make it more interesting (to others) but you seem to be using your own thoughts as 'fact' & adding them in where & whenever possible which doesn't help.
I'm going pass on making any further comments as I feel you have your mind made up about what you think is 'fact' & until you purchase all necessary documents/evidence prior to making your mind up then as far as I can see, you're in checkmate.
I'd also like to add, although FAG has always been a good resource over many years, in more recent years it's become a 'free-for-all' & not anywhere near as reliable as it was & can't be used as 'fact' nor can indexes or transcriptions be used as 'fact'.
Good luck,
Annie
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I think I’ve lost the plot (not surprising for me). ;D. But, maybe this helps?
Burial information for
Henry Brown. Born 24 Jan 1852, Ohio.
Died 2 Aug 1927, Charlotte, Eaton County, Michigan
Cemetery - Woodland Union Cemetery, Van Wert, Van Wert County, Ohio
Wife - Rosa Katharina Brown
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01rte/
Burial index for (I believe this is for the Mt. Pleasant Cemetery you referenced earlier)
Henry E. Brown, index page 23
Included on index page 23
Jane, John, John A., Louise and Thomas J
https://ohiomemory.org/digital/collection/p16007coll33/id/150205/rec/18
If I read your posting correctly, the above burials are for the two Henry’s you mentioned. So, not only would it be impossible to die twice, it would be a little far fetched to be buried in two locations? :-\
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Have you tried contacting the cemetery offices? Some office staff will (are permitted to) give details of those interred. When I made inquiries, I explained my relationship to the deceased, explained that it was only for genealogical purposes and gave them the name, birth and death dates. I also explained that I could not visit the (Canadian) cemetery in the near future as I was located in California. A few offices were understandably not permitted to give out information but others very kindly provided burial information that I did not have (deceased’s exact place of birth, and in a couple of instances after I mentioned additional names they confirmed others who were buried in the same plot).
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Excuse me butting in......
I don't have a sub for Ancest*y BUT, haven't I been reading that the "through lines" can be very misleading?
Please someone correct me if I am wrong as I don't want to be sued!!
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I think I’ve lost the plot
If I read your posting correctly, the above burials are for the two Henry’s you mentioned. So, not only would it be impossible to die twice, it would be a little far fetched to be buried in two locations? :-\
Thank you Lisa!
I just loved your pun ;D
This also emphasises the query previously raised of a middle name/initial or lack of...
Annie
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haven't I been reading that the "through lines" can be very misleading?
Please someone correct me if I am wrong
Yes!...& more so when wrong info. is attached to trees.
Annie
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Excuse me butting in......
I don't have a sub for Ancest*y BUT, haven't I been reading that the "through lines" can be very misleading?
Please someone correct me if I am wrong as I don't want to be sued!!
As Rosinish said, yes indeed. No need to worry about saying and 'being sued,' as Ancestry do actually, in effect, state this twice at least on https://support.ancestry.co.uk/s/article/AncestryDNA-ThruLines page, it's just that far too many folk don't seem to read and/or understand same. So, whilst Ancestry have done their bit to warn folk, I do think it is not enough and that they need to have a very prominent warning on the actual ThruLines home page too (although still too many users would likely ignore it ;D ).
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If I read your posting correctly, the above burials are for the two Henry’s you mentioned. So, not only would it be impossible to die twice, it would be a little far fetched to be buried in two locations? :-\
Apparently, the theory is that everyone from the doctor who reported the death to the grave digger was paid off to pretend Henry died, so he could dump his first wife and go with his 2nd secret family. Instead of just disappearing from his family, which was not unheard of in those days, he spent large sums of money to bribe people and buy a cemetery plot in order to pretend that he died in an insane asylum.
Or it could be that two men with the same utterly common name of about the same age existed within the state of Ohio in the same time frame.
Sometimes the simplest explanation is the correct one.
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Burial information for
Henry Brown. Born 24 Jan 1852, Ohio.
Died 2 Aug 1927, Charlotte, Eaton County, Michigan
Cemetery - Woodland Union Cemetery, Van Wert, Van Wert County, Ohio
Wife - Rosa Katharina Brown
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01rte/
The Eaton Rapids Journal
Eaton Rapids, Michigan
July 26, 1929
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Thank you, RJ137 for the obituary notice on Rose Brown. I knew when she died and where she was buried, but didn’t have her obit!
To the rest of the helpful people on here: though intelligent, I can sometimes be hard headed and a bit slow to get the point. I probably tend to have too much fun with my wild theories. I am slowly learning just what kind of proof I need for my family tree. I truly appreciate your suggestions and shall take them as the good advice that you intended. I did not know that Thru Lines was unreliable and I plan to learn all that I can about THAT.
I will come back to and update this thread as I learn more. I DID send for the death certificates of both these Henry’s. The one from Michigan was a waste of money. NO information, really. Just a typed document to prove he was dead. The one from Toledo was not available - the clerk of court office called me and told me that their records only went back as far as 1908. So I go to the Ohio Historical Society next.
Thank You All!
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I DID send for the death certificates of both these Henry’s. The one from Michigan was a waste of money. NO information, really. Just a typed document to prove he was dead. The one from Toledo was not available
As has been mentioned, a death cert. is the most unreliable doc of the 3...BDMs i.e. it's the marriage certs. you need.
Annie
Add...There are unanswered questions in your thread which would be helpful to know as they may help in your research.
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I will come back to and update this thread as I learn more. I DID send for the death certificates of both these Henry’s. The one from Michigan was a waste of money. NO information, really. Just a typed document to prove he was dead. The one from Toledo was not available - the clerk of court office called me and told me that their records only went back as far as 1908. So I go to the Ohio Historical Society next.
Ohio didn't require statewide vital records registration until 1908. Before that, it's a bit hit or miss. There is a ledger of deaths with him here - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F6NL-44Q I wouldn't be surprised if that's what the Ohio Historical Society has. From their website:
1867 - December 19, 1908
In 1867, it became a statewide law to record deaths at the probate court of the county where the death occurred. Death records were one-line entries in ledger books listing additional information such as birthplace and cause of death. Records will have space to include the deceased's parents names, but this information is dependent on the informant knowing and providing the correct information.
http://resources.ohiohistory.org/death/faq.php
There is a record that is viewable at a Family History Center or an affiliate library here - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F6KW-Y3T I'm not sure if that would have any more information than the ledger either, but you can check if there is a Family History Center or an affiliate library near you here - https://www.familysearch.org/centers/locations/
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Thank you, shellyesq - that's the same Death Ledger that I mentioned in one of my posts, showing that he died at Toledo State Hospital in 1901. I had NOT seen the summary of that info that pops up onto the link you added and says he was single - not married. Oh surprise - yet another monkey wrench thrown into the works. <trudging along and trying to find a new type of detective hat> I HAVE been working on the Leeds method just today. I'll try just about anything to sort all this out. My funds are limited as far as ordering up death, birth and marriage certificates for all in my tree.