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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Barra74 on Tuesday 09 August 22 12:04 BST (UK)

Title: help please
Post by: Barra74 on Tuesday 09 August 22 12:04 BST (UK)
I'd be grateful if someone could try and help me understand something.

My grand-mother was born in 1908 "illegitimate" with no father named on her birth certificate, marriage certificate and death certificate. I can understand that.

However, in 1908, her mother (my great -granny) gave her new baby the surname of her "paramour" she was living with. They never married. Her mother had left her husband in 1896.

I find it strange that the baby born in 1908 took the paramour's surname and not the mother's married or maiden names. Any experienced researchers got any thoughts about this? Thank you.

I haven't mentioned any names because I don't need any searching done at this time.

thanks all.
Title: Re: help please
Post by: AntonyMMM on Tuesday 09 August 22 12:11 BST (UK)

However, in 1908, her mother (my great -granny) gave her new baby the surname of her "paramour" she was living with. They never married. Her mother had left her husband in 1896.

I find it strange that the baby born in 1908 took the paramour's surname and not the mother's married or maiden names. Any experienced researchers got any thoughts about this? Thank you.


In England/Wales birth registers dont give any surname for the child (until 1969) .... the surname you see in the index is that of the mother and/or father depending on who is named on the entry and their marital status.

Have you a certificate for the entry ?

Title: Re: help please
Post by: Barra74 on Tuesday 09 August 22 12:38 BST (UK)
Hi thanks for reply. Yes I have seen all three SCOTTISH certificates mentioned earlier in my post.
Title: Re: help please
Post by: AntonyMMM on Tuesday 09 August 22 12:43 BST (UK)
Then ignore the above !

Scottish registration has different rules and regs.
Title: Re: help please
Post by: Barra74 on Tuesday 09 August 22 13:04 BST (UK)


The certificates from Scotland just confirm the fact a father is not named on any of them.
Title: Re: help please
Post by: Barra74 on Tuesday 09 August 22 16:20 BST (UK)
Thanks for your reply Antony.
Title: Re: help please
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 09 August 22 19:40 BST (UK)
My grand-mother was born in 1908 "illegitimate" with no father named on her birth certificate

her mother (my great -granny) gave her new baby the surname of her "paramour" she was living with. They never married. Her mother had left her husband in 1896.

I find it strange that the baby born in 1908 took the paramour's surname and not the mother's married or maiden names.
What name did your g g/m give on the 1908 BC...
Did she give her married surname, her maiden surname, her partners' surname or all 3?

How exactly was her name written on that BC (feel free to use any name(s) to show the example) & have you checked the index to see if your g/m is recorded under any other surname(s) other than the one you refer to?

Annie
Title: Re: help please
Post by: Barra74 on Tuesday 09 August 22 19:50 BST (UK)
hello
on the 1908 birth cert the mother gave her mother's partner's surname. She is only recorded under the one surname
Title: Re: help please
Post by: Barra74 on Tuesday 09 August 22 19:55 BST (UK)
sorry the baby's first name and middle name on 1908 is the g/gndm partner's mother name. still with me?
Title: Re: help please
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 09 August 22 20:09 BST (UK)
No, not with you at all, sorry.

Can you use an example with fictitious names to make it easy to follow, using (married name), (maiden name) or whatever in brackets  ???

As I mentioned, have you checked the index to see if other surnames have been indexed which don't necessarily show on the baby's BC as the/a surname?

Annie
Title: Re: help please
Post by: Barra74 on Tuesday 09 August 22 20:20 BST (UK)
Sorry I don't understand last para.

will do example :)
Title: Re: help please
Post by: Barra74 on Tuesday 09 August 22 20:24 BST (UK)
Jane Smith - daughter of Diane Jones and David Smith born 1890. David Smith son of Enid Janice Smith

Diane left David and set up home with Ian Black 1900

Jane gives birth to daughter in 1908 and calls her Enid Janice Black.

OK now :) :)
Title: Re: help please
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 09 August 22 20:33 BST (UK)
Diane left David and set up home with Ian Black 1900

Jane gives birth to daughter in 1908 and calls her Enid Janice Black.
How exactly is the info. written about Jane the mother?

Annie
Title: Re: help please
Post by: Barra74 on Tuesday 09 August 22 20:36 BST (UK)
on 1908 birth cert Jane's name is given as Jane Black - then address - then baby's name in full

Jane's birth father is still alive in 1908
Title: Re: help please
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 09 August 22 20:44 BST (UK)
If Jane has given her surname as Black with no maiden surname or previous surname or other then Black is the surname the baby would be named automatically.

Annie
Title: Re: help please
Post by: Barra74 on Tuesday 09 August 22 20:46 BST (UK)
indeed - I understand - but no clue as to baby's father!!
Title: Re: help please
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 09 August 22 20:50 BST (UK)
If the father of an illegitimate child is not present at the registration of the child then his name cannot be entered as he needs to be there to verify he's the father by signing his name which he obviously wasn't.

Annie
Title: Re: help please
Post by: Barra74 on Tuesday 09 August 22 20:53 BST (UK)
so likely I'll never know then?
Title: Re: help please
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 09 August 22 21:08 BST (UK)
so likely I'll never know then?
There's a good chance of finding out via DNA.

I have recently discovered an illegitimate child of one of my g/uncles!

Annie
Title: Re: help please
Post by: Barra74 on Tuesday 09 August 22 21:18 BST (UK)
DNA isn't for me.

Thanks for all your help.
Title: Re: help please
Post by: Rosinish on Tuesday 09 August 22 21:30 BST (UK)
DNA isn't for me.
Each to their own...

It wasn't something I'd considered for many years but as a last attempt to find my 'adopted' brother it seemed the only other way as a possibility although I'm still living in hope but have found a few illegitimate relations along the way.

Annie