RootsChat.Com
Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: JSHD2011 on Wednesday 03 August 22 18:00 BST (UK)
-
We have a Master Brushmaker in our family tree. His name was David John Davis b.1823 he married Ann Fry and they had many children (many died). They were initially from Creech St Michael. We think the picture we have below is of David John and his 2nd wife Mary (m. abt 1860). We now have found the attched second picture below with writing on the back in ballpoint pen saying that it might be David John Davis. This second picture looks much more modern although we think it may be a photo of an older photograph the resolution seems much much better some have said post 1900s which would most likely make it a picture of an american 'cousin'; he has an interesting tunic.
In a nutshell we are now having difficulties dating these two photos. Is it possible that the lower res one is a picture of David John's father James Davis and his wife Elizabeth from Stogumber? We think that James died or separated from Elizabeth (after David John was born) because by the 1851 Census she is a W (for Widow). We do not know her maiden name (we think it is Handsworth of Stogumber and Clerkenwell who were brushmakers (Fancy and Ivory). We cannot locate an 1841 census for Elizabeth either....).
-
To accurately date the 1st. we would need to see all of it.
In the absence of that I would suggest Edwardian.
The 2nd. is mid-late 1860's & he looks well into his 60's
& possibly 70's so I would suggest looking for someone born 1790's.
His dress style is indicative of someone in business of some sort.
She looks a lot younger possibly 50's.
-
Thank you,
This is quite exciting news for us. It would make the older picture most likely the father and possibly the mother of the person in the other picture. Unfortunately, I do not have the original of the younger looking photo but I will try and get hold of it.
NB/ We do have a record of a marriage in 1852 between James Davis (age 55 Widower) and Susan Turner (Widower) and the father of James is Thomas Davis who is listed as a Carpenter. If this is our James that makes things quite complicated (not least because in the census records David John's mother is listed as Elizabeth from Stogumber and W (Widow) from 1851 onwards) but it would mean that the photo is maybe a wedding photo and is James and Susan nee Turner not Elizabeth from Stogumber.
-
Sorry not father and possibly mother but Grandfather and possibly Grandmother.
-
We've had a look and I do not think we have a picture with more information on it than we have got for the younger gentleman. However, we have found a picture that we now believe is David John Davis the middle, generationally speaking, of the two. Please see attached. We think that David John Davis was baptised in Lydeard St Lawrence in 1823.
-
The card stock is typical 1870's.
-
Thnk you for your promp reply,
We think he had an older brother who was born in 1819, d.1905 and was a Carpenter. David John was a Master Brushmaker and died in 1889
-
We've got this one which didn't have any of the card on it so we thought it was a photo of a photo and we had thought it was the same man.
-
This one's Edwardian & he looks about 80 so quite possibly him.
There are similarities between the 2 pics but it depends on how old
you think he is in the other one.
As that one has rounded corners puts it mid-late 1870's so in his late 50's.
He may have gone grey prematurely but not a definite.
-
Many thanks Jim1,
I think they are brothers. The Edwardian one must be the older brother born 1819 because he outlived the younger brother (my 2nd G Grandfather David John Davis; Master Brushmaker who died in 1889 of bronchitis) because he didn't die until 1905. The lady he is with is obviously a Widow and I think it is her children behind the seated man who is the older and longer lived brother James Davis jnr. We, mainly I think they are the sons of the elderly gentleman (James snr b. 1795) dressed for business with the younger (much he was 55 and she was 48 when they married) seated lady clutching a bible I think because James must of died shortly after the photograph was taken in 1859 or 60.
If I could have another go it would be to ask if there is anyway of telling whether a photo was taken in Australia. We, I think the attached photo may be James Davis jnrs son Edward Davis who married Jane Fry in Victoria Australia.
I imagine it must have been quite warm under those lights especially in Victoria Australia.
NB/ Might the addition of colour as with the 1870s card stock one indicate that it was near the 1880s?
-
The lady he is with is obviously a Widow
Not sure how you came to that conclusion.
seated lady clutching a bible I think because James must of died shortly after the photograph was taken in 1859 or 60
This is dated mid-late 70's.
The last one is also 1870's.
You would need to see the photographer details on the back to know where it was taken.
-
Thanks again,
The daughter we believe is Florence Fry Davis. Florence was born in Melbourne c. 1867
-
Did they have another child early/mid 70's as she looks like
she's expecting.
-
Non that we are aware of. We haven't found any others yet if it is indeed them.
-
She might have miscarried I suppose as you say if it's them.
The child looks about 4 so 1871/2 looks about right.
-
Thank you very much for your helps jim1, you've been very kind. I am holding out in hope that it is the Australian one and am thinking of getting the photo forensically examined or something. There are a number of other people that it could be and we would have to get other photos dated to get a clearer picture. However, the dating is ideal for Edward, Jane and Florence more so than any of the others. Florence married Arthur Malin and we think they moved to New South Wales. There is a twist to the tail which is that the standing gentleman next to the seated lady in the what could be an 1860 photo had a sister Jane Davis who was sentenced to death for 'Highway Robbery' she stole a £30 pound note and a £5 pound note and some loose change from a bank clerk on 'The Highway' in London Dockland c. 1823 she spent two years in prison and her sentence was commuted to life in Van Dieman's Land (Tasmania). She had children although no marriages that we can find and left a legacy who we think went to New South Wales. We haven't fully joined up the dots yet. The dates of the photos have helped a lot and it means a lot to us. Thanks again.
-
You need the original as the info you need is on the back.
-
OK; i'll pass that on to the keeper of the photos Cath Davis in Cardiff my cousin and holder of the best photos. Some of them have had paper put over them which have then been written on. I suppose if she were able to take that off she might find the info.
-
Heard back from Cath. There is a bit of a mix up on my part. It says liverpool on the back of the photograph that I thought was Australian so it cannot be them and Cath says she knows who it is being our shared 1st G Grandmothers parents.
-
Hello again,
We've found another photo. My son thinks its the same man as the grey haired man, who was a master brushmaker, in the coloured picture on page 1. I think he's more like the seated grey haired man in the Edwardian turn of the century photo. We do not know the date of the photo and do not have the original but we believe it to be of a dateable style of portrait photography but would be very grateful for some advice.
Att.
-
This is 1870's.
-
Many thanks,
That makes it the same date as the grey haired semi coloured gentleman who we still think is David John. It seems a big ask for David John to have gone from upright full head of hair to completley white so I think I am right this must be the elderly seated gentleman in the turn of the century picture you dated for us as Edwardian.