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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Just.me on Friday 22 July 22 23:15 BST (UK)
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Hello I am new to Rootschat but not Genealogy. My brick wall is my Grandfathers parents, with out a birth certificate for him its hard to place him with the correct family. I do have a private tree and have added him to a family but chances are it's totally wrong. As there are to many John O'Connors with Father Patrick O'Connor.
Here is what I do know from documentation.
My Grandfathers name was John O’Connor, he married Margaret O’Connell 16th July 1919 in the Church of Nicker his residential address was Oola Hill Oola Limerick. It says he was full age so 21 and above. His father was named as Patrick O’Connor.. The first 3 Children were born in Nicker/Oola and the rest in Ballybrien They spent there next 50 years there till my Grandfather died. They had 8 children.
My Grandfather dies 11th April 1969 Death Certificate age was 74 at Peamount Hospital New Castle, I believe this was in Dublin when I looked it up. The informant was Matthew Lee Occupier at Peamount Hospital.
So that is what I know.
With out his birth certificate I have no idea of finding his Parents yes I know his father was Patrick but there are Hundreds and hundreds of John O’Connor with father Patrick! Is been my brick wall for 20 years.
It would be great to get some extra help or advice. Thank you all in advance.
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Where did John O'Connor live before he married Margaret? The name of the townland?
Have you found him on the 1901 and 1911 census? If so could you please link.
Could you put the name of the children of John & Margaret in birth order up please?
I am having trouble locating the 1919 marriage on here
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/
What was his mother's name...ie father was Patrick but do you know the name of his mother?
Have you found his birth?
Here is the death notification
NB it says Ballybrian Monard Co Tipperary.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1969/04169/4061910.pdf
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Thank you shanreagh for replying.
All I have to go on for where John lived was just as he got married he lived in Oola Hill, here is link to his Marriage certificate https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1919/09687/5513444.pdf Oola Hills is the Townland of Oola. other than that I have not Idea, there are lots of John with father Patrick. Order of Children's birth Catherine born 1920, Michael born 1923 Daniel born 1924, Johanna born 1926, John born 1929, Patrick born 1933, Mary Anne born 1933, Margaret born 1934. I know nothing about my Grandfather parents only a fathers name on the Marriage certificate of father called Patrick O'Connor.
I know my grandfather was a soldier Irish Republic Army but have never been able to find any details. Also he could read and write and was well known in Limerick and Tipperary he was a Dance Teacher and this is written on his son John's birth cert as occupation. He taught Irish dance, tap and the fiddle.
No I have not found his birth certificate, even on his head stone there is no birth date. My Grandmother had written some dates for me many years ago and said my grandfathers birth was 4 July 1893, I have never been able to confirm this, so I am still looking and with out his birth certificate I am unable to know the name of my grandmother and family.
I know
Thank you I have his death certificate too.
much appreciated.
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Marriage for reference
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1919/09687/5513444.pdf
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Hi, Have you the dates he was in the IRA, if so you might get info from his appointment records?
Trevor
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Hello Trevor. :) I did look some years back but again many John O'Connors, may need to try again. No idea when he joined or where he was living at the time.
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Any Idea where is best to look for John O'Connor Joining the army?
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Could this be a brother of Johns?
Michael Connors born 3 March 1890 to Patrick Connors and Johanna English residence Oola
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1890/02441/1908258.pdf
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Two other siblings:
Bridget, 19 May 1892:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1892/02346/1877283.pdf
Johanna, 29 July 1895
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1895/02204/1832736.pdf
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This family in the 1901 census, no sign of a John though :-\
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Limerick/Oola/Oola/1515540/
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This family in the 1901 census, no sign of a John though :-\
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Limerick/Oola/Oola/1515540/
Here's Catherine born at Oola-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1900/02006/1771163.pdf
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Thank you. Doubt that is the right family as John does not appear with them. Our name is O'Connor I know spellings change tho. Yes thank you I have Catherines Birth certificate.
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Could this be John in 1901? with grandmother Bridget. Considering the names Bridget, Catherine and Johanna appearing in more than one generation its possible.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Limerick/Dromcolliher/Carroward_West/1510167/
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That's very interesting. Thank you. Not seen that before.
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Just throwing this in from 1901. John O'Connor aged 7 with grandparents Patrick and Catherine McCoy and widowed mother Mary Anne O'Connor.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Limerick/Shannon_Ward_No__8_Limerick_City/White_s_Lane/1504024/
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Thank you now if you were able to find her Marriage certificate and the name was Patrick that would be a high possibility or John birth certificate
Great find
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I have found a marriage certificate for Maryanne McCoy, then O'Connor who married James Hayes in 1902.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1902/10295/5747444.pdf
(She may have slightly altered her age so as not to be older than her husband)
Then a 17 year John Joseph O'Connor living with them as a step son, to James Hayes, in the 1911 census.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Limerick/Limerick_No__3_Urban/Arthur_s_Quay/628367/
J J O'Connor is shown as a scholar at that time with a birth in Limerick City. The earlier 1901 census shows the McCoy and O'Connor family al being born at St Michaels Limerick. Possibly meaning baptised there.
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Thank you. I do think your on to something. My doubt is with the wedding cert as Mary shower as a spinster and if previously married to O'Connor that would appear as her name? I have been looking for a Patrick O'Connor marrying MaryAnne Mc Coy but nothing.
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John Joseph Connors born 19/3/1894 Limerick, son of John Connors and Mary Ann McCoy (no O'connor with a John Joseph in the timeframe 1894-1895 in Limerick).
Think this is the John Joseph in question so.......sorry!
Annette
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John Joseph Connors born 19/3/1894 Limerick, son of John Connors and Mary Ann McCoy (no O'connor with a John Joseph in the timeframe 1894-1895 in Limerick).
Think this is the John Joseph in question so.......sorry!
Annette
So from this it looks as though many used Connor/O'Connor/Connors interchangeably as Mary McCoy/'O'Connor/Hayes used O'Connor on the 1901 census.
Just to close the circle does this Mary Ann McCoy later marry James Hayes and is she the one who is shown on the 1901 census with a 7 year old John O'Connor?
ETA we are looking for a John O'Connor. I put the Joseph in as that was what was on the census.
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Right
Different tack
On Griffiths Valuation in 1851 there is a Patrick Connors leasing land from a Morgan Hayes in Oola parish Shanaclogh West Townland. There is a house on this property. In addition he leases land in Oolahills West Oola Township to a John Hyde.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01rpl/
Also living in Shanaclogh West Township are the following O'Connell, Darmody, Fitzgerald,hewitt Rafferty, Hayes and Dwyer and the railway.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01rpm/
Also on Griffiths there are 11 references to Patrick O'Connor owning or leasing land. NONE of this land is in Oola. The link shrink is not working for me now.
https://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNameSearch&Submit.x=43&Submit.y=7&familyname=o%27connor&firstname=patrick&baronyname=&countyname=LIMERICK&unionname=&parishname=
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Back looking for a birth of a John O'Connor to a Patrick O'Connor.
Here is one from 1890 - 27/5/1890.
Father is Patrick O'Connor who is a coachman and the mother is Mary O'Connor formerly Herbert. They lived in Augustinian Place Limerick City - registered in the No4 Registrars District.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1890/02424/1903188.pdf
Here is the marriage of Patrick O'Connor and Mary Herbert 24/1/1887
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1887/10798/5937944.pdf
His father is Maurice O'Connor who is a farmer and I have seen some records about him while on this mission!
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So many variables. Its so hard to pin point and this is my dilemma. OK I will see how that pans out. Thank you all for your help. Appreciated :)
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Hi, Did you tell me that a cousin told you that John O'Connor might have been born in Castleconnor?
I have found a Patrick and Johanna (mmn English) Connors in the Griffith Valuations of 1851, just 1 mile from Ballybrien.
They had 7 children, 1 died, have only found 4 children sofar, living together.
Michael b1890 Oola
Bridget b1892 Oola
Josie b1896 Oola
Catherine b1900 Oola
with father Patrick and mother Johanna living nextdoor.
Patrick and Michael was a Railway porters.
pos married in Castleconnor.
regards Trevor
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Hello Trevor my cousin said It was Castleconnell ?
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Ok There is a Patrick O'Connor mar Anne Dalton Castleconnor 7 Aug 1877,
then a John Connors bap 2 Sept 1878 Castleconnor to a Patrick Connors and a Johanna Dalton.
If this was the first child who died, then a second John born later between Bridget 1892 and Johanna 1895.
Also if this Patrick had a father Patrick will make it fit with Oola.
Who lives at Ballybrien since John 1896?
regards
Trevor
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Hello Trevor,
Castleconnor ? it needs to be Castleconnell! from what my cousins in Tipperary recall. If you ment Castleconnell that may tie up.
:). This has been my brick wall for 20 years.
Appreciate you help.
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Sorry my mistake, yes it is Castle connell, north of Limerick.
St Joseph's Parish records, no other children baptised there.
So it was Johanna Dalton's home address.
Still looking for John's bap.
regards Trevor
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That would be incredible if you have found him and his family.
I am excited. Fingers crossed
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I have gone back to my Grandfathers Marriage certificate and as that is the civil certificate I have now emailed the church of Nicker ie St John the Baptists Church. I am praying the church records will have his mothers name. There is no Church records on line yet for Limerick, so the church records of the Marriage should include his mothers name.
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Good luck :)
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Thank you. 20 years of search is a long time of getting nowhere fast!
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Trevor. Father Tomàs has replied Johns mother's name was on the church records its Johanna Walsh. I am waiting for a better copy as he cropped off an important part about a dispensation so may have been related. I am ecstatic.not to search more
Debbie
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Found a good match for a marriage of Johns parents, however it took place in Tralee ???
Perhaps John was born there.
Patrick Connor m. Johanna Walsh 25 February 1879 in the parish of Ballynahaglish (sic). Cant seem to make out Patricks residence or fathers name.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1879/11063/8047577.pdf
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Here’s the parish record:
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634238#page/13/mode/1up
it says Patrick lives in “Camp”. is his fathers name Cain or am i just reading it wrong ???
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Here’s the parish record:
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634238#page/13/mode/1up
it says Patrick lives in “Camp”. is his fathers name Cain or am i just reading it wrong ???
I read the father's name as Cain also. I think the townland may be Camp.
There are Connors in Camp at the time of Griffiths Valuation
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01rqn/
and on the 1901 census.
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Thank you every one for the links. So as I am piecing all this info together I need to now find a birth cert for John still hahaha hoping he had siblings gratefully for all your help. X
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I have now had confirmation from the Church that John O’Connor Mother was Johanna Walsh and father as I knew was Patrick O’Connor. They were from Townland Camp in Kerry.
I have found there marriage cert on Irishgeneaology and they married in Lissodige which is in Ballynahaglish Kerry, on 25th Feb 1879. This leads me to think John was possible born there? Not found birth certificate yet! Shows how little my family knew about my grandfather!!.
On my grandparents church records, the address for John parents is showing as
Annagh, Barrington Bridge Co. Limerick. Its 10km or 6 miles to Castleconnell.
So now with your help and others at Roots chat I hope I can pinpoint a birth certificate for John O’Connor/Connor. Still digging for any clues, I feel lucky.
Many thanks
Debbie
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I have found there marriage cert on Irishgeneaology and they married in Lissodige which is in Ballynahaglish Kerry, on 25th Feb 1879.
Here's the townland of Lissodeige in Ballynahaglish civil parish.
https://www.townlands.ie/kerry/trughanacmy/ballynahaglish/ballynahaglish/lissodeige/
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I found Johanna as a Widow here and but her name is Walsh, is that My Johanna would she have changed her name back after Patrick O'Connor / Connor died and moved back to Kerry?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Kerry/Ballynahaglish/Lissodeige/290763/
Thoughts please.?
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They are Walsh in 1901 too
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kerry/Ballynahaglish/Lissogeige/1430846/
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Thank you so much. not sure how I missed that. Hmm confused now.
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Think I have it wrong, will search again. As thats not making sense if her husband was O'Connor/O'Connor
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https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1880/02879/2055244.pdf
I believe I have now found my Grandfathers birth certificate. It was registered in 1880 but his birth was 21st Dec 1879 Those are definitely his parents so he was born in Tralee a place called Kilgobbin.
so in that case I should be able to find them in the 1901 census for there. The one thing that really confuses me about my grandfathers birth year is his death certificate has his age as 74 when in fact he was 90! thats a strange one for sure
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That would make him 39/40 when he married, did anyone in your family ever comment on him being older than usual for marriage?
I know the expectation of marriage for men was different back then so he easily could’ve been 40, however if there is a large age gap between the people marrying usually it is noted.
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Strange because when I mentioned to my cousins they always thought he was younger Once I had the church marriage certificate there was a dispensation it did not say what just the Rev allowed the marriage. Could be because my Grandmother was only 19 and Grandfather just had full age. Still surprised he was so.much older.
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If luck might have it, I think I have found him staying with relatives in 1911 his age was given as 29 and single http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Kerry/Kilgobban/Foilatrisnig/280611/
its in his home area, working in a shop/ Drapery. So he had O'Sullivan family
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This family is really confusing me ::) There is no correlating birth record with correct parents, no census records, they are noted as living in Limerick but married in Tralee, i’ve tried to look for death certificates for both Patrick and Johanna in Limerick or Kerry and found nothing, John is not noted as being 40 on his marriage record, he would’ve been 90 when he died but is noted as 74.
The only theory I can suggest is that the John that was born in 1879 died young and the name was reused, however I can’t find any death certificate ??? Do you have any pictures of him? Maybe folks on the photograph dating part of the website could try and estimate his age at the time of the picture? I think the 1926 census could help your problem but we might be waiting a while ::)
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Agree its more thank confusing till I find his siblings its hard to know if there was another John. I am on my Phone and don't see how to add a pic. There stored on my phone
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It is very odd and I have my doubts about him being your ancestor.
This is relevant to the family you have highlighted lately - living in Foilatrisnig, Kilgobban.
1901 census
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kerry/Kilgobban/Foilatrisnig/1429022/
The Sullivans have 5 children.
1911 census - you posted earlier
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Kerry/Kilgobban/Foilatrisnig/280611/
4 children born and 3 are still living
There are so many Sullivan births to search it is difficult.
However:
1884. Michael with mother Johanna formerly Walsh
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1884/02686/1989472.pdf
1886. Bridget with mother Johanna formerly Walsh
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1886/02609/1963538.pdf
1888. Mary with mother Johanna formerly Walsh
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1888/02511/1931019.pdf
1891
Patrick with mother Johanna - formerly Connor
I can’t find a birth for John
I wonder if this is Johanna Walsh who married Patrick Connor.
I also wonder if John, ‘the son’ in 1901 is John ‘the relative’ in 1911.
There is a death for Patrick Connor, 30yrs in 1881 but the informant is Johanna Connir - mother!
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1881/06418/4843643.pdf
Then I can’t find a marriage for Dennis Sullivan and Johanna Connor or Walsh.
But there is a death for Cain O’ Connor, 74 yrs and married same townland in 1879. The informant Johanna but no relationship given.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1881/06418/4843643.pdf
I don’t have time at the moment, but one would expect Cain’s wife to be Johanna so there should be a death for her.
This is such a long post and may have no relevance whatsoever as you have that Limerick reference to his parents on the parish records.
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This is a brilliant post thank you and I will check it out, Patrick Connor (my Grandfathers dad) father was Cain Connor and his Mother was Mary Cronin not Johanna. She's siblings were twins Honora an Mary. I.will go over the rest shortly I have seen shot lots but will go back and get links. Thank you so much. I have a headache from looking haha
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Just to add another Sullivan/Connor connection, there are multiple early 1880s baptisms with father Patrick Connor and Johanna Sullivan on rootsireland.
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This is a brilliant post thank you and I will check it out, Patrick Connor (my Grandfathers dad) father was Cain Connor and his Mother was Mary Cronin not Johanna. She's siblings were twins Honora an Mary. I.will go over the rest shortly I have seen shot lots but will go back and get links. Thank you so much. I have a headache from looking haha
I don’t know where your information comes from but there was a Cain Connor in Foilatrisnig in Griffiths Valuation.
There are two deaths in Tralee district
1) 1866 so no details but that Cain is 80 yrs
2) the one I posted in 1879, 74 yrs.
There may be other sightings elsewhere.
It is all speculative though. It seems so odd that John’s parents are named in 1919 with their residence :-\
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I have just seen a couple of transcriptions of that marriage
Feb 28th 1843 Gortacunig, Killarney
Cain Connor and Mary Cronin.
I think you need to be wary of these findings. I know it’s hard.
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There is a Galbally petty sessions record of a John Connors residence Annagh (John's parents
residence 1918) that occured 15/07/1908 and he is the defendant. It is a fine for drunkenness so nothing crazy but good to see evidence of Connors in the area at the time.
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Oh I have not seen that. Do you have a link to it please so I can keep it for my records. Yes on John marriage cert its show parents then lived Annagh Barington bridge so.would appreciate the link pls. If possible
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I've messaged you the details of the Petty Sessions records :)
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Yes thank you. Sorry did not know how to reply. Thank you
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There is a Galbally petty sessions record of a John Connors residence Annagh (John's parents
residence 1918) that occured 15/07/1908 and he is the defendant. It is a fine for drunkenness so nothing crazy but good to see evidence of Connors in the area at the time.
I keep searching and pouring over various records but it gets confusing. ;)
It seems there are two Annaghs in Limerick
Annagh, Galbally
https://www.townlands.ie/limerick/coshlea/galbally/galbally/annagh/
Annagh, Clonkeen.
https://www.townlands.ie/limerick/owneybeg/abington/clonkeen/annagh/
I am not really sure but Barrington’s Bridge and Clonkeen could be interchangeable.
https://www.libraryireland.com/topog/B/Barringtons-Bridge-Clanwilliam-Limerick.php
Your family mentioned Annagh, Barrington’s Bridge, I think.
Clonkeen and Galbally are a distance from each other.
If you look at the censuses for Annagh, you will see the two DEDs - Clonkeen and Galbally.
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Thank you.. I thought I posted to say I have found my Grandfathers birth certificate and parents. His Father died when he was young. Years later his mother remarried and his name was Michael. They got married in Castleconnell. So it all fell in to please. Thank every one for all your help in this. I stayed up for 48 hrs and it paid off. Xx
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Oh I didn’t see that.
I have just been looking at some folk from Castleconnell as I knew you mentioned it some time ago. :)
Can you point me to the post please. Do you mean his mother married a man name Michael or was the surname Michael.
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My phone needs charging but it's Johanna O'Connor Married Michael Supple 1892 that is why my Grandfather called his first son Michael after his step father. Many thanks for all your help x
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Thank you.
I can only see a couple of that name with children in the censuses but no marriage so perhaps not them.
The children do have a mother’s name of O’Connor though.
If it is them, was John illegitimate?
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I cant seem to find a Johanna/Michael marriage either, John being illegitimate came to mind for me too.
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John's father was Patrick Mother Johanna Patrick died young and John was the only child from thst marriage. Johanna Married Michael in Castleconnell 1892. They went on to have 5 children. I can not post the links as on Roots Ireland but yes I am happy I have what I need now. Again thanks for your your suggestions.
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You must decide for yourself but if this is your family, it doesn’t seem right.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Limerick/Ballyvarra/Clyduff_West/1493924/
Those children have a mothers name O’Connor.
Where is John in 1901 when he would be quite young?
I just want you to find the right family. As you will know, we feel quite attached to John by now :)
Added
I can see that Ballyvarra is close to Barringtonsbridge so that is good.
Could Johanna Supple (born Kerry) have been John’s older sister ?
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I have now had confirmation from the Church that John O’Connor Mother was Johanna Walsh and father as I knew was Patrick O’Connor. They were from Townland Camp in Kerry.
I have found there marriage cert on Irishgeneaology and they married in Lissodige which is in Ballynahaglish Kerry, on 25th Feb 1879....
Debbie, I have been reading this over the last few days, so hoping that with the help you have been getting you would get the confirmation you need ;)
Have to say, I am now confused. The confirmation you got from the Church that John married at in 1919 was that his mother was a Johanna Walsh. The Johanna who married Michael Supple has the maiden name of Connors not Walsh :-\ Son Stephen's birth reg in 1901 https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1901/01959/1756267.pdf
Also, her age. In 1901, she is showing as c. 26 www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Limerick/Ballyvarra/Clyduff_West/1493924/
Monica
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Heywood, sorry. Posts crossed!
Monica
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I was just going to post my thought -
If the marriage is on Roots Ireland, it will be a parish record. I wonder if that has Johanna’s parents named?
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Checked the RI record, no parents or mention of Walsh, she is just called "Connors"
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Thank you every one for all your replies. Also for being attached to John. Johanna Walsh married Patrick Connor/OConnor so her name was O'Connor/ Connor when she married Micheal roots records show her father as John same as it was when she married Patrick. My Grand father was born 1879 so would not expect him to be on the 1901 census as he would have been 22. Back in the day records of age were not recorded people lied I have all the records the information is as good as the informant. I have the paper trail and it all makes sense.. Appreciate all your help xx
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Johanna’s age
1901 - 30yrs born abt 1871 (Michael 26 yrs)
1911 - 43 yrs born about 1868 ( Michael 45 yrs)
1948 death 82 yrs born abt 1866
Birth records for the Supple children would show Johanna’s birth name not her former married name.
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Back again - sorry.
Which parish did they marry in?
Is there a residence for her on the marriage?
There are published trees which give her father as Maurice but there is no supporting evidence for the marriage which they also have as 1892.
The census info for Maurice and family is also wrong as daughter Johanna is still at home in 1901.
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Not necessarily also she should have showed as widow but she does not. As I explained I have all the records it all fits and happy withwhat ai have found. So on thst note. I appreciate all your help. Thanks everynone.
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Ok. I understand you are happy with your findings. It seems to have been a long journey.
Best wishes.
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After all the comments i got here I thought i best re check all the documentation and was shocked to see the Johanna father's name was O'Connor which is totally wrong it should say Walsh. So thank you for casting doubt in my mind when I was sure it was correct. Back to the drawn board!! It's deflated me as put so much in to finding correct evidence I messed up.!!!
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This happens to us all at some time.
I think the thread is confusing now, as we have all tried to find the right people.
It might be best to draw together those things that are known.
John’s marriage - father Patrick both labourers.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1919/09687/5513444.pdf
His residence Oola Hills, Oola.
You know where he lived subsequently and his death in Dublin in 1969 gives his age as 74 yrs. therefore born around 1895.
His residence Ballybrian, Tipperary.
Parish records you have show his parents as Patrick O’Connor and Johanna Walsh.
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When he married, a witness was John Mulcahy.
This is the only one I see in Oola district.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Limerick/Oola/Moanoola/644187/
It might be that your John, as a labourer just happened to be working in the area and was not necessarily from there.
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Thank you , I am devastated I was so sure it was right. So agree this thread is what to confusing now. the last few links above are correct. Here is Johanna and Patrick Marriage cert
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1879/11063/8047577.pdf
and here is John birth certificate, both records are under Tralee, so my grandfather was not illegitimate so when his father died, which I can not find now he was young at some point he was in Oola as he married my Grandmother. here is there marriage certificate, that is all correct
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1919/09687/5513444.pdf
Thanks every one, I feel like giving up!!!
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You say here is John’s birth certificate but haven’t posted it.
It would help as there could be (although we have not found them) other couples with the same names. As your thread title says - ‘too many’.
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Been looking for potential siblings of John, marrying early 1900s etc. There was no O Connor marriages in Tralee in between 1902-1906 with father Patrick.
these are the only ones I could find in Kerry and Limerick:
William O Connor / Margaret Riordan, 1913
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1913/09877/5587821.pdf
Michael O Connor / Johanna Shanahan, 1911
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1911/09952/5618575.pdf
John Fitzgibbon / Johanna O Connor, 1908
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1908/10059/5658642.pdf
Patrick O’Connor / Mary Quinlivan 1906
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1906/10139/5689155.pdf
I know most of these are not likely, but i think they are worth sharing anyway :)
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The John birth certificate Justme mentioned earlier :)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1880/02879/2055244.pdf
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He was born 21st Dec 1879 the birth was not registered till after Christmas Jan 1888
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1880/02879/2055244.pdf
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He was born 21st Dec 1879 the birth was not registered till after Christmas Jan 1888
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1880/02879/2055244.pdf
He was born 12 Dec 1879 on 21 Dec 1879. Off course! ETA
He was registered 14 January 1880 not 1888
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When he married, a witness was John Mulcahy.
This is the only one I see in Oola district.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Limerick/Oola/Moanoola/644187/
It might be that your John, as a labourer just happened to be working in the area and was not necessarily from there.
I agree Heywood I think I made that point some time back......it is the current place of residence not where you are from ie where you are born or where your parents may still live.
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The John birth certificate Justme mentioned earlier :)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1880/02879/2055244.pdf
Of course, I posted various records ::)
Shanreagh, I am just thinking aloud ;)
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Is it possible as Johanna was then Johanna Connor/ OConnor and never declared she was a widow it was assumed her father was O'Connor/Connor so as not to get caught for lying? It's very possible
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I can see the possibility of the O Sullivan family in some ways.
In 1901 there are 5 children including John O’ Sullivan aged 20yrs.
In 1911 it states 4 children born alive - one of whom is now deceased.
I found four births earlier in reply #49 - Michael, Bridget and Mary - mother Walsh and Patrick with mother Connor.
Death of Patrick in 1907
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1907/05535/4551803.pdf
As the births are meant to be recorded to the mother on the census and the present marriage one can only assume they are to Johanna.
That would leave son John :-\
In 1911, there is a relative John O’Connor, 29 yrs. he is a shopman (drapery) so not exactly a labourer.
The difficulties:
Marriage missing - Denis O’ Sullivan and Johanna ?
the distance to Oola
Parents named and placed in Annagh, Barringtonsbridge in 1919 on John’s marriage.
There is not enough evidence yet to link these.
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I must admit after all the work by various people the only thing I am certain of is that we are looking for the ancestors of the
John O'Connor who married Margaret at Oola in 1919 so of Patrick O'Connor.
We have since been advised by the church that married them that his mother's name was Johanna Walsh. His father's name is Patrick, from the register.
Oola is likely to be the church of his wife Margaret as it is close to Pallas Hill Pallas Green.
I have searched on Irish Genealogy for John's death registration. This may have been in Dublin in 1969.
I think to get back to basics we should see a link to the death certificate of John O'Connor/Connor who married in 1919... please. This says he was 74 and therefore born in the 1890s sometime rather than the late 1870s.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1969/04169/4061910.pdf
The registration says at the time of death he was from Ballybrian Monard Co Tipperary.
https://www.townlands.ie/tipperary/clanwilliam/solloghod-more/ballykisteen/monard/
He died from cancer of the stomach and pulmonary TB so may have gone to Peamount Hospital for treatment or palliative care. Peamount Hospital was set up for specialist TB care. It is located
'Our address: Peamount Road, Newcastle, County Dublin, Ireland'
I think that medical people would pick up on the difference in between a 74 year old and a 90 year old.
Were there death notices in the paper for the death?
When did Margaret die?
Could we link to that please?
Again were there notices in the papers ......rememebering this was late-ish last century so newspaper notices were very common.
Where is John buried? Is it on Findagrave or similar please?
Where is Margaret buried? Again is it on Findagrave.