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General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: CarolineWebb on Friday 22 July 22 15:28 BST (UK)
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Hi,
We are trying to find the identity of my husband's great grandfather (his father's grandfather).
He has taken a DNA test and so has his mother so we know which matches are on the correct side. We have sorted matches into 2 groups of people that do not fit anywhere within the family tree so far.
We think this is such a long shot but would love to work out the identity of our 'mystery man'.
Are there methods we should use or is it a case of building up trees from the matches, hoping to find a common ancestor. We're aware of how unlikely this is to happen but would love to try!
thanks in advance :)
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Have you tried...
https://www.danaleeds.com/the-leeds-method/
Sometimes it's difficult to judge whether others' trees are completely accurate i.e. use them as a guide only & do your own research.
Annie
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It is possible to trace back your husband's line. Perhaps we can help, here on RootsChat, BUT there is a rule that living people are not named.
You obviously know your husband's name and his age, and the name of his father. Assuming that the father is dead, then you could give us his name and we can see if we can assist.
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Sorry but I haven't explained it properly - we know who his great grandmother is but the identity of great grandfather is unknown as she was unmarried and there is no-one named on the birth certificate! Does that make sense?! ???
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Have you tried...
https://www.danaleeds.com/the-leeds-method/
Sometimes it's difficult to judge whether others' trees are completely accurate i.e. use them as a guide only & do your own research.
Annie
We've never heard of this so will have a look thank you :)
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Ah!!! I now see your problem :-[
BUT - just another thought - is there an unusual name associated with grandfather, which may or may not offer a clue?
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Lol I wish! He was called Fred Webb (no middle names!) His surname was his mother's name. She had four children all out of wedlock by four different men!
We did find the names of two of the proposed fathers in court records for her other children but not for Fred.
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we know who his great grandmother is but the identity of great grandfather is unknown as she was unmarried and there is no-one named on the birth certificate!
Did he give a name for his father on his marriage cert?
Annie
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I had this problems with a grt grandfather. I used a mix of DNA info and traditional genealogical methods. As Annie says, don't rely on the matches' trees but use them as a guide.
If you've identified a shared group, what range of cMs do they share with you? Also, is there anyone there who has a tree that you can verify? Have you messaged any of them to find out more about their lines? If you're lucky, you will be able to identify a common ancestor from the group. Then investigate locations, etc.
It took me about 3 months to identify the correct 'father'. I checked my info at each step and didn't use the Leeds method but used my own tried and trusted routines!
Gadget
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we know who his great grandmother is but the identity of great grandfather is unknown as she was unmarried and there is no-one named on the birth certificate!
Did he give a name for his father on his marriage cert?
Annie
We haven't seen a marriage cert. but we know that his mother never divulged the name of his father to him, apparently he did ask and she refused to say.
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Just to add, I later had other (lower cM) matches cropping up that linked to ancestors of the earlier generations.
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I had this problems with a grt grandfather. I used a mix of DNA info and traditional genealogical methods. As Annie says, don't rely on the matches' trees but use them as a guide.
If you've identified a shared group, what range of cMs do they share with you? Also, is there anyone there who has a tree that you can verify? Have you messaged any of them to find out more about their lines? If you're lucky, you will be able to identify a common ancestor from the group. Then investigate locations, etc.
It took me about 3 months to identify the correct 'father'. I checked my info at each step and didn't use the Leeds method but used my own tried and trusted routines!
Gadget
We have already tried what you did for your quest. Unfortunately for us, the highest cm match we have is only 56 for people in a mystery group, therefore we have to go back several generations to find a common ancestor which is months, if not years of research!
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It took me about 3 months to identify the correct 'father'. I checked my info at each step and didn't use the Leeds method but used my own tried and trusted methods!
Gadget,
I was using a similar method of my own with an excel spreadsheet when I discovered the Leeds Method, it can be very helpful visually in front of you & very easy to follow.
However, someone on one of the DNA threads said it didn't work for them because of the lack of matches at the levels needed.
Annie
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We have already tried what you did for your quest. Unfortunately for us, the highest cm match we have is only 56 for people in a mystery group, therefore we have to go back several generations to find a common ancestor which is months, if not years of research!
With or without using DNA many of us spend years trying to find ancestors or relatives.
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I know that's the reality but we'll keep trying!
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If you have tested on Ancestry, you need to build a tree with as many ancestors as possible. Hopefully then you will get some common ancestor matches and you can use those to help group the rest of the matches.
What I did (not sure if this is the Leeds method) is create groups for each great grandparent pair. E.G. P1GSmithJones, P1GBloggs/Dickens M1GHowardRivers etc. then when you get a common ancestor, add all the shared matches to the same group.
Once you have things grouped, start looking for common surnames within the group and try to build them into a single tree with a common ancestor.
However, having said all that, what cracked it for me was more "social research". I found my grandmother on the 1939 census and the widow she was working for had a son of just the right age...
Good luck!
R.
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Annie -
I found my own methods were easier and I've helped a few others using my methods. I've spent many years analysing large data sets so it was easier that way. It's just a bit of crosstabs and multivariate methods, as long as some of your matches have trees that can be verified.
I think it's whatever a person finds easiest/understandable. Multiple methods always work best.
Gadget
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If you have tested on Ancestry, you need to build a tree with as many ancestors as possible. Hopefully then you will get some common ancestor matches and you can use those to help group the rest of the matches.
What I did (not sure if this is the Leeds method) is create groups for each great grandparent pair. E.G. P1GSmithJones, P1GBloggs/Dickens M1GHowardRivers etc. then when you get a common ancestor, add all the shared matches to the same group.
Once you have things grouped, start looking for common surnames within the group and try to build them into a single tree with a common ancestor.
However, having said all that, what cracked it for me was more "social research". I found my grandmother on the 1939 census and the widow she was working for had a son of just the right age...
Good luck!
R.
It seems we have done very similar things to yourself but as you say, social research may be the way to go. The Mum was a domestic servant and each time she got pregnant lost her job. Need to look at men living at the same address maybe to get some ideas!
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Look for the strongest DNA cousin on your father’s side. Then look at all their shared matches, and start looking at their trees for a common ancestor. If they don’t have a tree, message them and ask how they relate to another match. Most won’t reply, but at least one might. Make lots of notes and draw up their trees. Group them into your paternal mother’s side, and paternal father’s side. If you don’t know which is which, just family groups based on shared matches. I did this and found that the father of my grandmother was one of two brothers. DNA from half 2nd cousins does not point strongly enough to which one. I also surprisingly discovered my grandmother had an affair which resulted in my father and one of his sisters. I have also found grandparents etc for friends. Sometimes it’s really fast and easy, but other times you have to wait for a “smoking gun” to show up, ie. a half 2nd cousin from that side of the family. Good luck.