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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: bclc71 on Sunday 17 July 22 02:27 BST (UK)
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HI. I've been exploring my family history online for about 15 years. Like many i have some dead ends where I just cant find enough information to go any further. Yet using DNA links on Ancestry I can see other people with information on shared ancestors that I have no idea where they get it from. I message but get little joy. There is an awful lot of people just accepting other peoples findings but no citations or proof. Mistaken assumptions become viral and it makes it very unreliable!!
I am trying to find information on a James Ryan.
- My grandfather was William (Liam)Ryan (1908-1980) born Dublin.
- His father was Thomas Ryan (1859-1938) who was born 9 Upper Exchange St ( several siblings born same area)
- His father was Jacobus (James) Ryan. I have no details other than at Thomas's wedding in 1892 James in listed as Bootmaker. I cant find anything else other than his marriage 1850 in St Nicholas RC Church to Maria Anna McKenna, and baptism of 6 children.
But my grandfather William had some connection to Tipperary but my mother never knew what and appears to have never known anything about that side of the family.
My main question is, given how poor records are before about 1830, how do people go about researching for that time? I am relying on digital records (given my location overseas) and not sure how to get further information. any magic wands or suggestions appreciated!!
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There are no "magic wands".
What you do see all the time are people who either:
- Take any and all "hints" Ancestry throw at them, no matter how bizarre or inappropriate, or
- Themselves collect any baptism or marriage with the right name within roughly the right 30 year period, no matter where located.
These nonsensical choices then get put into Ancestry family trees, and get "hinted" again in turn to others, feeding and perpetuating the cycle....
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- My grandfather was William (Liam)Ryan (1908-1980) born Dublin.
- His father was Thomas Ryan (1859-1938) who was born 9 Upper Exchange St ( several siblings born same area)
- His father was Jacobus (James) Ryan. I have no details other than at Thomas's wedding in 1892 James in listed as Bootmaker.
Link to 1911 census ??
House 2.4 in Fitzgibbon St. (Rotunda, Dublin)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Rotunda/Fitzgibbon_St_/31254/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000072190/
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Thanks. I have lots on that generation thanks to census ans digital church records. ,It's James Ryan and wife Mary Anne Mckenna that I have gotten stuck on - no details on their births or parents or place of birth.
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If I may- it would be helpful to list the known children of James Ryan and Maria Anna McKenna. Irish in most cases used naming patterns which may help. We know you have what you need on James' & Thomas' families but info on yhem may help.
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If I may- it would be helpful to list the known children of James Ryan and Maria Anna McKenna. Irish in most cases used naming patterns which may help. We know you have what you need on James' & Thomas' families but info on yhem may help.
thank you. Yes I will do that - Ive had success in the past making connections from information in a post - its like leaving a thread of breadcrumbs , that may be found years after the original post.
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He was deceased by 1886 according to daughter Mary’s marriage record
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1886/10851/5961864.pdf
Do you have a death for him?
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This is the only death I can see but not sure because of the area.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1874/020645/7244009.pdf
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The information I have on James Ryan and Maria Anne (Mary Anne)McKenna is as follows:
5 August 1850 Marriage of Jacobus Ryan and Maria Anne McKenna at RC church of St Nicholas (Without), Dublin City
1856 Birth of son William Ryan Dublin City
- married Bridget Donnelly (daughter of Thomas Donnelly and Mary Duffy) 12 January 1890, St Mary's Pro Cathedral. Bridget born 1868, Dublin
2 Oct 1857 Birth of daughter Catherine (Katie) Ryan(1857–) • 9 Uppr Exchange Street, Dublin
- sponsors Joanne and Catherina Kenna ( possible siblings of Mary Anne )
- Katie married Patrick Lennon (son of John Lennon and Anne Ledwith) 29 Nov 1890 St Marys Pro Cathedral
01 Dec 1859 Birth of son Thomas Ryan(1859–1938) • 9 Upper Exchange Street, Dublin, Ireland
- married Ellen Everard (daughter of William Everard and Mary Conroy) 29 Feb 1892, St Josephs Berkley Road. Ellen was born 26 Oct 1872, Dublin and died 1943.
James is listed as a bootmaker on marriage certificate.
- Thomas is my great grandfather
abt 1861 Birth of daughter Mary Ryan(1861–) • Ireland
married Thomas O'connor (son of Thomas O'Connor and Catherine Fox) on 24 Nov 1886 St Marys Pro Cathedral
18 Apr 1862 Birth of son James Ryan(1862–) • 56 Georges street, Dublin
03 Mar 1865 Birth of son Patrick Laurence Ryan (1865–) • 56 Georges street, Dublin.
He married Mary Anne Whelan
So James and Mary married in Dublin and had their children in Dublin as far as I can ascertain. No information on where James or Mary came from or their DOB.
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He was deceased by 1886 according to daughter Mary’s marriage record
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1886/10851/5961864.pdf
Do you have a death for him?
thank you. No I dont. interesting that on Marys marriage record 1886 it shows James is deceased because on Thomas's marriage record 1892 it doesnt note that he is deceased.
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Some records show ‘alive’ or ‘dead/deceased’. Others don’t but it doesn’t mean that the person was alive at that time.
I think you have reversed the birth year for William - should it be 1856?
You would imagine that there would be births between 1851 and 1855 but there does seem to be a lack of records.
Godparents can be useful in case they are family and would spread the search wider.
What do you mean by ‘William had some connection to Tipperary’? Where did that information come from?
It’s a bit vague. :)
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This is the only death I can see but not sure because of the area.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1874/020645/7244009.pdf
interesting - right age range ( 52 in 1874 = birth approx 1822, married 1850 ), Shoe maker consistent with 'bootmaker' on children Mary and Thomas's marriage documents
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What do you mean by ‘William had some connection to Tipperary’? Where did that information come from?
It’s a bit vague. :)
yes very vague!!! my mother remembers her father William(Liam), son of Thomas 1859-1938 going to visit family in Tipperary - but never gave any details, never talked about. So my mother assumed thats were Thomas had come from but he was born and raised in Dublin.
On Ancestry there are people with shared ancestry who have recorded James as coming from Callen, Kilkenny but no evidence that its the same James at all and some inconsistencies.
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He was deceased by 1886 according to daughter Mary’s marriage record
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1886/10851/5961864.pdf
Do you have a death for him?
thank you. No I dont. interesting that on Marys marriage record 1886 it shows James is deceased because on Thomas's marriage record 1892 it doesnt note that he is deceased.
William’s marriage - father is deceased.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1890/10692/5896967.pdf
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What do you mean by ‘William had some connection to Tipperary’? Where did that information come from?
It’s a bit vague. :)
yes very vague!!! my mother remembers her father William(Liam), son of Thomas 1859-1938 going to visit family in Tipperary - but never gave any details, never talked about. So my mother assumed thats were Thomas had come from but he was born and raised in Dublin.
And were the family William visited on his paternal grandfather or grandmother's side? Or his mother's side? Seems to me that there are alternatives to they being Ryans at all.
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And were the family William visited on his paternal grandfather or grandmother's side? Or his mother's side? Seems to me that there are alternatives to they being Ryans at all.
I dont know anymore unfortunately, but valid point. I may never know.
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Could they be from the McKenna/Kenna side?
5 August 1850 Marriage of Jacobus Ryan and Maria Anne McKenna at RC church of St Nicholas (Without), Dublin City
Have you seen the marriage details? Are there any clues eg father's names etc.
Just looked witnesses were Jacobo Gernon and Anna Lee.
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This is the only death I can see but not sure because of the area.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1874/020645/7244009.pdf
interesting - right age range ( 52 in 1874 = birth approx 1822, married 1850 ), Shoe maker consistent with 'bootmaker' on children Mary and Thomas's marriage documents
The informant was a Mary Ryan. He was a widower so that means his wife may have died prior to 1874, so after the wedding and the births of her children.
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This is the only death I can see but not sure because of the area.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1874/020645/7244009.pdf
interesting - right age range ( 52 in 1874 = birth approx 1822, married 1850 ), Shoe maker consistent with 'bootmaker' on children Mary and Thomas's marriage documents
The informant was a Mary Ryan. He was a widower so that means his wife may have died prior to 1874, so after the wedding and the births of her children.
I would presume that Mary was the daughter.
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Well that’s what I thought :)
She was married from 5, Lower Dominick Street and William from 1 Lower Dominick Street but the marriages were somewhat later than that death.
The family were in Upper Exchange St around 1860s according to bclc71.
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The baptism of James (Jacobus) 29th April 1862 (bottom of page) gives residence as 56 George Street
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633574#page/161/mode/1up
Catherine in 1857 - 9 Upper Exchange Street
Patrick Laurence - 1865 - George Street I can’t see a civil birth for him.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633575#page/26/mode/1up