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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ayrshire => Topic started by: DanielSC20 on Thursday 14 July 22 22:39 BST (UK)
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Hi. I was wondering if I could have some help with something.
Hugh Alexander died on March 1st 1890 aged 64, but first of all, people on ancestry have his birth date as May 14th 1816, making him 73, but I can also find no records for a Hugh Alexander born between 1816 and 1826 with the same parents that are listed on his death certificate. The census seems to estimate his birth around about the 1816 mark. A little more info on Hugh, he married Jane/Jean McWilliam in 1844, and she died in 1904. They had 9 children, James (1844-1910), Annie (1846-1892), Jane (1849-1924), William (1850-1925), Agnes (1852-1921), John (1855-1930), Hugh (1857-1920), George (1859-1936) and Margaret (1861-1880).
Hugh was the son of Hugh Alexander, Coal Miner, and Jane Campbell.
Some people claim that he is Hugh Montgomery Alexander, son of John Alexander and Jean McDowall, however I heavily doubt this is my Hugh.
I'm looking for information on his parents, and when he was actually born.
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Firstly - ignore what other people have - you will find lots of posts about the huge number of inaccurate info on trees on Ancestry. Do your own research
Presumably you have Hugh on censuses 1851-1881 so does his birthyear on those entries correspond with his age at death?
1851 he is 36 b Dailly- Jean is 30 b Kirkoswald Galloway occ is farm labourer
1861 - 45 & 39 occ is ploughman
1871 - 60 but Jane is 35 - you need to check the 1871 image - occ is labourer
1881 - can't find him
No census shows him as a carter
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I can just about see a possible error I've come across in my own family records :-\...
Son is the informant of his fathers' death...
He gives his fathers' name as Hugh Alexander...
The Registrar then asks the son, father's name (although meaning the name of his g/f) & he repeats his own father's name as Hugh then the Registrar asks, what's your fathers' mother's name & maiden name :-\
Only a suggestion as I've come across several records with wrong info. & have had to try & work out the wording of questions which would create the wrong answers ::)
Annie
Add...If the naming pattern was used, might his father be James?
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From the minutes of the kirk session of Dailly:
Dailly 17th July 1814. After Prayer Sederunt
with the Minr. David Dick, Alexr Davidson, James
McGill, Hamilton Scot &c Elders
Compeared Jane Campbell an unmarried woman
who confessed she was with child and accused Hugh
Alexander (Irish) as the father of her child she was
rebuked and exhorted and dismissed for the present.
Dailly 13th November 1814.
... Appeared at the same time Jane Campbell who was
rebuked for the sin of fornication with Hugh McAldridge
and was also absolved from the scandal.
[The accounts book records that Jane Campbell paid a fine of 5/- for fornication on 13th November 1814]
Hugh Alexander/McAldridge does not appear before the session and there is no record of him paying a fine. Presumably he had disappeared from the area.
Is this the same person?
Dailly April 14th 1817.
Voluntarily Compeared Jane Campbell,
an unmarried woman, and made confession
that she had been guilty of the sin of unclean-
ness: - accused John McMannas, an unmarried
man, as the Father of her child - She was rebuked
for her sin.
Dailly Septr. 8 1817.
Jane Campbell having been repeatedly
with Mr Hill at the Manse for admonition & given
tokens of repentance was rebuked for the sin of for-
nication with John McMannas who acknowledged himself the father & absolved
from the scandal.
[Mr Hill was the minister.]
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1841 census, Dailly Village:
Jane Campbell, 47, Pauper,
Jane McManas, 24,
Elisabeth McManas, 22, Sewer,
Sarah McCormick, 7,
John Stewart, 20 months
- all born Ayrshire
1851 census, Main Street, Dailly:
Jane Campbell, head, unmarried, 60, Pauper, Ag. Lab., b. Dailly,
Elisabeth McManus, daughter, unm., 26, Seamstress, b. Dailly,
Sarah McCormick, daughter, unm., 16, Seamstress, b. Dailly,
John Stewart, grandson, 11, scholar, b. Dailly
1861 census, Main Street, Dailly:
Jane Campbell, head, unm., 70, pauper, b. Dailly,
Joanna Stewart, granddaughter, 1, b. Dailly
1871 census, Main Street, Dailly:
Jane Campbell, head, unm., 80, retired servant, pauper, b. Dailly,
Sarah McCormick, daughter, unm., 34, farm worker, b. Dailly,
Ellen Stewart, granddaughter, 1, b. Dailly
Jane Campbell, mother's maiden name Ferguson, died in Dailly in 1874, aged 84.
Sarah McCormick's father was James McCormick - a case of adultery (although he said he would appeal to the Presbytery).
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Thank you all for such quick responses.
I guess it could be possible that Hugh was illegitimate. It seems to add up, Hugh came from the Dailly area I believe. Where would he be in 1841? -I cannot seem to find the 1871 census you have listed on Ancestry however (for Jane Campbell). Perhaps due to this situation Hugh didn't know his birthday, resulting in the conflicting years?
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"Hugh, he married Jane/Jean McWilliam in 1844,"
Where is this marriage...location and date?
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Childrens births show mmn as McWilliam
1861 shows Jane b Kircowan Wigtown & there is an 1820 birth on SP in Kircowan - parents William & Jane nee Dougan - don’t know whether that matches her death cert
Can’t see any marriage for Alexander/McWilliam
Son James was b 20.10.1844 - parents Hugh Alexander/Jane McWilliam
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Hugh came from the Dailly area I believe. Where would he be in 1841?.
The baptism of possibly their 1st son William (1st of 2 named William) of Hugh & Jane McWilliam...
ALEXANDER WILLIAM - HUGH ALEXANDER/JANE MCWILLIAM FR72 - 07/10/1843 -
888/20 29 Kirkcowan (Wigtown)
Their next son James was also baptised in Kirkcowan, Wigtown...
ALEXANDER JAMES - HUGH ALEXANDER/JANE MCWILLIAM FR73 - 20/10/1844 -
888/20 30 Kirkcowan
Could Hugh have been in Wigtown in 1841...
ALEXANDER HUGH 27 (b1813/14) - 886/ 4/ 3 Inch, Wigtown
Looking at the index, Hugh is with Jannet Alexander 60
I haven't looked at other available resources.
I couldn't find a marriage for Hugh to Jane McWilliam but the BC for John b 1855 will give date/place of marriage i.e. what info. was given?
It will also state where both parents were born i.e. what info. was given?
Annie
Edit...Probably not your Hugh as the above 1841 entry (FreeCen) gives PoB for Hugh as Wigtown...http://www.rootschat.com/links/01rp2/
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I have his son Hugh's birth certificate, in 1857 and it does not state a parents marriage. Apologies, I said 1844 I meant 1842, June 9th in Kirkcowan, I found their marriage on scotlands people, it seems as though they have messed up Hugh's name and have put him down as Alexander Hughs. The birth for a William Alexander would be right. I believe William died as a child before the 1851 census. And yes, Janes parents are William McWilliam and Jane Dougan.
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Could this be the marriage & his name has been mixed up, not impossible :-\
MCWILLIAM JEAN & ALEXANDER HUGHS/FR92 - 09/06/1842 - 888/20 53 Kirkcowan
HUGHS ALEXANDER & JEAN MCWILLIAM/FR92 - 09/06/1842 - 888/20 53 Kirkcowan
Everything does seem to fit well, names, area & date for the 1st birth.
It would be good if the marriage info. from the 1855 BC of John matches.
Annie
Add...Our posts crossed, I must've been typing when you posted, sorry, I didn't see it ::)
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Ah, no problem. I am strongly convinced that is the correct marriage, I don't have credits at the moment to view it however everything seems to add up. I think it could certainly be possible that Hugh was illegitimate, with the lack of information people on ancestry and myself have been able to find. If that illegitimate story is correct, it would mean Hugh was born abt 1814. Maybe he wanted to hide his illegitimacy from his children resulting in the conflicting age at death?
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I have his son Hugh's birth certificate, in 1857 and it does not state a parents marriage.
Unfortunately, births 1856 - 1860 don't give the parents marriage details but all 1855 certs (Birth, Marriage & Death) are full of all sorts of info.
Annie
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I have just purchased John Alexanders birth certificate. You were right, 1855 births really give lots of info! Hugh was born near Dailly and was aged 39 at the time, putting his birthdate to about 1815 (John was born in early January 1855, so likely that Hugh's birthday had not passed yet) and it says that Hugh and Jean got married in 1843 in Kirkcowan, which is close to what I have.
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I have his son Hugh's birth certificate, in 1857 and it does not state a parents marriage.
Date and place of parents' marriage is recorded in 1855, omitted 1856 to 1860, and included again from 1861 onwards.
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I also got Jane Campbells death cert, and this also looks good.
I am now rather convinced that Hugh was the son of this Hugh Alexander and Jane Campbell. I wonder if Hugh knew his mother? Jane even had some great grandchildren alive at the time she died!
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Daniel,
Hugh Alexander was my 4 Great grandfather. He is definitely not Hugh Montgomery Alexander And he was not a Farmer as some people have in their trees on Ancestry and other sites. He married Jane McWilliam in Kirkcowan on 9th June 1843. Recorded as Alexander Hughes. The Jane Campbell mentioned in the Dailly Kirk sessions is his probable mother and I also believe he was born illegitimate.
Hugh and Jane had 10 Children, and he was, a farm/labourer/ploughman, also described as a carter on his death cert. Hugh spent time in prison in 1844 for stealing meal. he was described as being 28 years old, 5ft 8in. Brown hair and blue eyes. He is buried in Tarbolton churchyard in an unmarked plot next to his son William Alexander.
Hugh has been evading me for years and I will probably never get a definite answer to his parentage.
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Hi there cousin! Hugh is my 4th great grandfather!
Thanks for that info about him, I didn't know he was in prison!!
Which child of his are you related to? I'm descended through his son, Hugh.
I live in Tarbolton and have been in the Churchyard Cemetery many times.
The name Hugh Alexander has been carried through my family for generations. My own grandfather was Hugh Alexander!
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Also forgot to include this in my post
Do you have anymore information of Hugh, or, the Alexanders in general that may be of interest?
Thank you!
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My line is from Hugh Alexander's son William.(1850-1925). Hugh has always been a challenge, There's no record of his birth, that I can find and his death cert names Jane Campbell and no father. My sister was in contact with and elderly lady in Ireland several years ago, and she said that Hugh's father was Irish. However we lost contact with her.
Hugh was jailed in Wigton for stealing 10 stone of meal and apart from the description i mentioned before, he was described as dirty and his clothes ragged. I could not find anything about his son William b1843
I checked the burial records in Ayr and found that he was buried in Tarbolton churchyard along with his wife Jane McWilliam and granddaughter Margaret. William my GG grandfather is buried in the next plot.
That's about all I know about Hugh and like yourself I found lots of trees online which are not correct. So the advice about doing your own research and verifying, where possible, is good advice.
If there is anything else I can help with our Alexander family feel free to contact me
Regards
Ross
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I have posted this information before - a long time ago - in reply to a previous query from Ross. You have asked for any info on Alexanders.
I have an Andew Alexander who is named as the father of an illegitimate child on the child's birth certificate. The birth took place at Trabboch, Stair 3 Feb. 1897, the mother (my great aunt) was from Coylton. He did acknowledge the child and signed the certificate, giving his address as 45 Newmarket Street, Ayr. The couple did not subsequently marry. The child was named Jeannie and given Alexander as a middle name. Hope this adds to your info!
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Hugh has been evading me for years and I will probably never get a definite answer to his parentage.
Have you read GR2's reply #3 in this thread?
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Forfarian
Aye I've had that information for a while now. I believe that the Jane Campbell who had an illegitimate Child with Hugh Alexander is my relative. Unfortunately there are no records, that I can find, that back this up. Which is why i said that we might not get a definitive answer. I am not convinced either way that the Jane Campbell who was with John McMannas is the same person, but she could be. Again lack of records
Ross
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You have a death record giving Hugh's parents as Hugh Alexander and Jane/Jean Campbell. GR2 has supplied a birth record with parents Hugh Alexander and Jane/Jean Campbell in the right parish at the right sort of time. Why do you think that this is insufficient evidence?