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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Andrea Pea on Tuesday 12 July 22 13:49 BST (UK)
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Help please! I’ve been searching for my gt grandfather Joseph Parkes. UK GRO has no birth cert(b 1874ish), even though I have his parents names (Philip & Phoebe) and no marriage cert to my gt grandmother May(née Claridge b 1883) though on my grand fathers birth cert it says they married in Birmingham 1908…no shipping records of them going to NSW Australia, though my grandfather was born there in 1911…no shipping records of them soon after all then going to Perth Western Australia where they settled. I have no birth dates for either Joseph or May. I’ve contacted Australian archives and I’m on ancestry and still can’t find him. Where else can I go? 🤯
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As he was born c1874 and didn't emigrate till c 1910-ish have you found him on any of the
UK census returns between those dates?
Boo
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What information is given on your grandfather's birth certificate - parents' ages, places of birth and father's occupation?
Debra :)
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I have his parents names (Philip & Phoebe)
A couple of online trees (public trees on Ancestry) have his parents as John and Phoebe.
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A bit of background for Joseph.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/81001167
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kynoch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_Small_Arms_Company
Debra :)
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I have his parents names (Philip & Phoebe)
A couple of online trees (public trees on Ancestry) have his parents as John and Phoebe.
Which would make this 1881 Census 'possible'
Piece 2825/folio/15/page 4
I think that can be discounted as that Joseph seems to have married and is on the 1911 census
Boo
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Could this be her?
Looks like May went to Canada in 1910, so it looks like she married over there or in Australia and not in 1908 in Birmingham.
Name: May M Claridge
Gender: Female
Arrival Age: 28
Birth Year: abt 1882
Departure Port: Liverpool, England
Arrival Date: 18 Jun 1910
Arrival Port: Quebec, Canada
Vessel: Victorian
Looks like that's the wrong May. She was born as Mary Eaves Claridge.
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no shipping records of them going to NSW Australia, though my grandfather was born there in 1911…no shipping records of them soon after all then going to Perth Western Australia where they settled.
How about, 21 July 1913, Moldavia
Passengers disembarking Fremantle
Mr Parkes
Mrs Parkes
Master Parkes (under 12)
Embarked Sydney
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Daily News (Perth), Tue 22 July 1913
MOLDAVIA'S PASSENGERS
The passengers who landed at Fremantle from the R.M.S. MOLDAVIA from the East were: —
...Mr. J. Parkes, Mrs. Parkes and infant...
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/79856160?searchTerm=parkes
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So, leaving Sydney, they are recorded as Parker in this report
The Sydney Morning Herald, Sat 12 July 1913
R.M.S. MOLDAVIA, FOR LONDON.
The following is a list of the passengers sailing by the P. and O. Company's R.M.S. Moldavia from
the company's wharf, Circular Quay, at noon to-day for London via ports: —
...Mr. and Mrs. Parker and infant...
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/15435079
And The Sun the day before
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/229690309
Exciting!
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I assume you have Josephs parents’ names from his death certificate. I suspect the information was supplied by someone who did not quite know the correct details – his 2nd wife or his son? Who was the informant?
If we can find a marriage it should confirm parents. But it might be that Joseph and May never actually married.
Do you have his 1926 marriage certificate from his second marriage to Dorothy Murray? That should give you vital information.
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PARKES MAY 1925 NORTHAM 189 1925
What parents’ names are given on the death certificates?
PARKES Joseph 1931 PERTH 751 1931
Death notice: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article32521657
Funeral notice: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article58648311
First Name JOSEPH
Last Name PARKES
KARRAKATTA CEMETERY Burial
Aged Years 53
Date of Death 23/5/1931
Suburb SUBIACO
Grave Location KARRAKATTA CEMETERY
ANGLICAN
Area or Denomination NA
Section 0108
Death at 53 in 1931 given him a birth year of 1878.
23899/1911 PARKES John F parents JOSEPH and MAY at SYDNEY - born 1 August 1911
FREMANTLE CEMETERY: SAINSBURY ROSE (COMP) GARDEN 19 0011
Memorial Type ROSE MEMORIAL
JOHN FREDERIK
Last Name PARKES
Aged Years 90
Date of Death 25/5/2002
Suburb PALMYRA
VALMAI GLADYS PARKES
Aged Years 90
Date of Death 26/10/2007
Suburb GREENFIELDS
John’s military record:
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=6499872
Jamjar
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May Eaves Claridge born Dec quarter 1882 Birmingham
mother - Parsonage
birth certificate can be obtained from the GRO
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May Eaves Claridge born Dec quarter 1882 Birmingham
mother - Parsonage
birth certificate can be obtained from the GRO
CLARIDGE, CHARLES PIDDINGTON mmn PARSONAGE death Jun 1867
GRO Reference: 1866 J Quarter in DAVENTRY UNION Volume 03B Page 108
CLARIDGE, HARRY JAMES mmn PARSONAGE death Jun 1905
GRO Reference: 1868 J Quarter in DAVENTRY UNION Volume 03B Page 113
Marriage:
Jun 1885 Birmingham 6d 71
CLARIDGE Harry James
BATES Alice
Marriage: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QGDL-X3GH
Probate: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:W77Y-QY2M
1891: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:W2RV-PW2
1901: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSZJ-WFJ
2nd marriage:
Jun 1906 Birmingham 6d 338
NIELD Allan
CLARIDGE Alice
Death: Dec 1910 Aston 6d 251
NIELD Allan 36
Possible death:
Jun 1912 Birmingham 6d 17
NIELD Alice 47
1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWCB-TDL
CLARIDGE, FLORENCE EAVES mmn PARSONAGE
GRO Reference: 1876 S Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 192
Marriage:
Jun 1896 Aston 6d 543
RICHARDS James
CLARIDGE Florence Eaves
1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWZZ-337
CLARIDGE, MINNIE CAVES mmn PARSONAGE death Dec 1884
GRO Reference: 1878 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 164
CLARIDGE, EDITH EAVES mmn PARSONAGE death Mar 1883
GRO Reference: 1880 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 181
CLARIDGE, MAY EAVES mmn PARSONAGE
GRO Reference: 1882 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 129
Marriage: Dec 1864 Daventry 3b 237
CLARIDGE James
PARSONAGE Mary
I don’t know how the hubby became know as Harry:
CLARIDGE, JAMES mmn THOMPSON
GRO Reference: 1843 M Quarter in DAVENTRY UNION Volume 15 Page 247
1851: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGY9-Y98
1861: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7PC-ZG5
PARSONAGE, MARY mmn TURNER
GRO Reference: 1841 D Quarter in ST OLAVE'S UNION, SOUTHWARK Volume 04 Page 419
Parent’s marriage:
Sep 1841 St Olaves 4 458
PARSONAGE John
TURNER Jane
1851: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG6C-J2V
May’s family, 1871: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5YZ-7TG
1881: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27N-CW2N
May, 1891: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:W2LX-H3Z
May, 1901: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSZD-CLB
Possibility, mother 1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWZ9-8Y5
Jamjar
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A bit of background for Joseph.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/81001167
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kynoch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_Small_Arms_Company
Debra :)
The Trove article states that he worked at BSA during the Boer War, which was 11 Oct 1899 – 31 May 1902.
On the 1901 census we have a few possibilities, but they are all married:
Born 1876, Birmingham, a GENERAL LABOURER: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSZ8-5YV
1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWZD-RYY
Born 1878, Birmingham, a CORPORATION CARTER (NIGHT):
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSZ8-KVX
1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWZ4-PRN
As PARKS, born 1876 Birmingham, a BRASS FOUNDER:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSZY-K1K
1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWC1-97K
What occupation did Joseph record on his son’s birth certificate?
Jamjar
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So, leaving Sydney, they are recorded as Parker in this report
The Sydney Morning Herald, Sat 12 July 1913
R.M.S. MOLDAVIA, FOR LONDON.
The following is a list of the passengers sailing by the P. and O. Company's R.M.S. Moldavia from
the company's wharf, Circular Quay, at noon to-day for London via ports: —
...Mr. and Mrs. Parker and infant...
I think the newspaper got it wrong. Looks like PARKES to me.
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Yes indeed and looks like 'Master' and not infant.
ETA Master is a male child. I don't usually think of them as an infant which to me is a baby/toddler/just starting school.
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Yes indeed and looks like 'Master' and not infant.
ETA Master is a male child. I don't usually think of them as an infant which to me is a baby/toddler/just starting school.
Above it says Mrs. Johnson + Master D. Johnson
In the newspapers it is Mrs. Johnson and child.
Also on there on the passenger list, next page, Mr. and Mrs. and Master White.
Daily News says Mr. and Mrs. White and infant
Down same page are Mrs. R. B. Irlan, Miss Irlan, Miss A. Irlan
Daily News says Mrs. R. B. Irlan, child and infant
So they are Master or Miss on the passenger list.
Child or infant in the newspapers.
What is going on here?
I only reported what I saw, trying to help.
Now everything I post has to be picked apart?
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I don't think is anything to do with you.....at all. Neale has hit the nail on the head in saying SMH. For some reason the newspapers are saying different things to what is recorded on the passenger lists themselves.
Had a similar experience in NZ newspaper reports of the voyage that part of my Irish family on to NZ. The Newspapers at the time reported XYZ (all the cabin passengers) and '120 unnamed Irish immigrants'. That stymied my mother in her quest for years until passenger lists came on line and we found the family listed with the other 116 'named' Irish immigrants. For some reason the paper had not published the names of the others, confining itself to those in the cabins.
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Well found Jon- at least we know they cam eback from Oz,when Joseph was just 2 years old.
Can we find them going back again?
Carol
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Well found Jon- at least we know they cam eback from Oz,when Joseph was just 2 years old.
Can we find them going back again?
They disembarked at Fremantle on 21st July - they did not go on to London.
They were with others travelling between Sydney or Melbourne or Adelaide and Fremantle. About 70 people disembarked in Western Australia.
ADDED. Any child under the age of 12 is recorded as “ master” or “Miss”. No specific ages recorded.
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Apologies for the rant :-[
John
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Dundee. Thank you for that. We know he was brought out from the uk to work at Lithgow arms. I applied to Lithgow arms several years back for info re Joseph. I also applied to the NAA. Both said they had nothing on him. Although they may have details locked up in defence records but I’d need his full date of birth.
On my grandfathers birth cert it has Joseph 37 & May 29. Joseph is Grinder, Engineering and they were both born and married…in Birmingham 1908.
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Jonw65. Thankyou so much for info of Joseph and May disembarking in Fremantle. We had no idea of when they got to WA. Seems ill direct all my info from now on to trove. Ancestry snd others have been hopeless 🙄
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ShaunJ. Yes the tree that says Joseph’s fathers name is John is my cousins and I've told her it’s incorrect. On Joseph’s death cert it’s says Phillip and Phoebe.
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Tickettyboo. So many Joseph Parkes went to australia. But as I don’t have his actual birthdate, and all certs I have give different years of age…it’s hard to work out who’s who ☹️
May was on a 1901 uk census but not on the next. I’m now trolling thru Australian census trying to find them.
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Johnw65. Wow. Thank you. I emailed archives Re shipping here in Perth WA and national looking for them. Both said they have nothing. I might just send that back to them, and tell them they should look harder.
I didn’t know trove has all that info.
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Neil1961. Strangely I did get Joseph’s parents names from his 2nd marriage here in Perth shortly after May died. His parents are Phillip and Phoebe. I applied to uk gro and they said they couldn’t find a marriage cert for Joseph and May. We were beginning to think they weren’t married.
But on my grandfathers birth cert it says they married in Birmingham 1908. Ive been going round in circles. Thankyou for that snippet. Do you have the full link for the Moldavia list? I can’t find it anywhere..not even on ancestry. We have no idea when they got here in WA. I have been trolling over passenger lists on ancestry trying to locate them…and it’s annoying when they didn’t use their Christian names just Mr & Mrs.
Yes…May is from the Parsonage line. I managed to get that info quite a while back.
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Jamjar. Initially the BDM here in Perth couldn’t even find May on their system. 🙄. But her death cert was posted out but there’s no helpful info on it.
May was of the Parsonage line, James Claridge and Mary(née parsonage) her parents. I did manage to find her baptism record, but Thankyou for the info you’ve supplied.
On my grandfathers birth cert it says Joseph was a grinder, engineer. My dad had told me he was and engineer. And he did come out to work at Lithgow arms NSW but they had no record of him.
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Shanreagh. Thankyou…it’s been so frustrating, and then to keep getting replies saying we have found nothing on them in our archives 🙄
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Well, I’ve run out of ideas.
I can see no Philip/Phoebe, Joseph/Mary marriages. Nor, censuses for Philip/Phoebe, young Joseph.
I wonder if he left a family behind, running off with Mary, while changing his name. It has happened before.
Say he married, in 1908, doesn’t mean that he did.
Do the certificates actually give the name PARKES as his folk’s surname?
Jamjar
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Jamjar. It’s been hard tracking down the Parkes. As the UK GRO had no marriage cert for Joseph and May we thought same, and that they’d fibbed on my grandfathers birth cert. about marrying in 1908 Birmingham. But info is on Joseph’s second marriage cert right after Mays death…about Joseph’s parents, Phillip and Phoebe(née Sanders)
There’s other info posted here about Joseph which I’ll follow up.
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Can you please list all the information on the birth certificate, 1911, NSW.
Can you please list all the information on the marriage certificate, 2nd marriage, W.A.
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I have no birth dates for either Joseph or May.
Andrea, In your opening post you say you don’t have a birth date for May. Now after people have spent time finding this for you, you say you already have all her family information.
In the meantime, over the last few posts you have added bits of information previously not given.
• “We know he was brought out from the uk to work at Lithgow arms”
• “On my grandfathers birth cert it has Joseph 37 & May 29”
• “On my grandfathers birth cert it says Joseph was a grinder, engineer. My dad had told me he was an engineer.”
• “Joseph’s parents, Phillip and Phoebe (née Sanders)”.
This is frustrating for those trying to help you. Any bit of information however small, might be the item that unlocks other clues. If you don’t actually post the information that you know, then we have little to go on.
With the information that you have just supplied, (and the fact that the decision to build a munitions factory was made in 1907), I draw your attention to the following shipping record:
August 1908 Ship “SOMERSET” - Mr. J Park (Engineer) departed Liverpool, arrived Sydney.
He may not have been travelling with May, if he was brought out by the government. She may have followed him later, and / or she may have travelled under a different surname, if they were not married.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS8V-V9FV-T?i=1&cc=2613135&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AWXMJ-CYT2
Given the following article it seems unlikely that Joseph would have arrived in Australia earlier than about 1908.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/204574599?searchTerm=
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Help please! I’ve been searching for my gt grandfather Joseph Parkes. UK GRO has no birth cert(b 1874ish), even though I have his parents names (Philip & Phoebe) and no marriage cert to my gt grandmother May(née Claridge b 1883) though on my grand fathers birth cert it says they married in Birmingham 1908…no shipping records of them going to NSW Australia, though my grandfather was born there in 1911…no shipping records of them soon after all then going to Perth Western Australia where they settled. I have no birth dates for either Joseph or May. I’ve contacted Australian archives and I’m on ancestry and still can’t find him. Where else can I go? 🤯
The GRO UK records are good as copies from original records in town/city UK register offices, but I have known of odd BMD's slipping the net in GRO copied records (Similar to UK Parish record copies as BT's) My bothers death 1947 recorded in Huddersfield register office ledger 1947 but GRO did NOT have a copy of the death event- Thus check for your lost Birmingham 1908 marriage in Birmingham register office original ledgers of their BMDs 1908.
As for not finding a birth certificate with GRO -there is always the possibility that the birth event was illegitamate with the childs surname name being its mothers maiden name (as was the case with my granddad born 1866 - who to this day ? I don't know if his father was the man as my Gt grandmother married a year after granddads birth or another man was his father and granddad was baptized in his mothers recently married 1867 husbands surname ) (Granddads real dad or stepdad -?)
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The Somerset: https://marinersandships.com.au/1908/09/052som.htm
Jamjar
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Neale1961. I apologise and have contacted a moderator to amend Re birthdate for May.
I’ve been trolling thru masses of info for days so don’t even remember writing that…other than I’m tired. I have a month free on ancestry…and I’m using it!
I have info for May yes..but my entire post is about Joseph and looking for him. The shipping info you gave has been the best info so far. Seems there was a mr and Mrs Parker & infant who went to London…and also a mr and Mrs Parkes & infant who went to Fremantle in the trove newspaper info.
I’ve tried posting pics of cert info for you all…but it won’t let me.
May & Joseph married 17/9/1908 Birmingham, on my grandfathers birth cert.
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Dobfarm. Yes it can very hard when info you know should be there but isn't. I’m just glad UK GRO don’t charge for info they can’t find. I just keep getting doors shut on me. Frustrating!
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Wivenhoe. ETC
My grandfather John Frederick birth cert 1/8/1911 - Australia NSW
May (née Claridge) aged 29 - born Birmingham
Joseph Parkes aged 37 - born Birmingham - Grinder, Engineering works
Married 17th September 1908 Birmingham England
Joseph’s (2nd marriage) cert to Dorothy Murray. 15th December 1925
Joseph - 50 yrs - mechanic - birth Birmingham - widowed (date unknown recorded)
Parents - Phillip Parkes/Moulder/deceased & Phoebe (née Sanders)/deceased
May Parkes (née Claridge) born 1883 / death 15/9/25
Joseph Parkes born 1874?? / death 23/5/1931
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17th September 1908 was a Thursday, not a usual day for a wedding to take place.
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I draw your attention to the following shipping record:
August 1908 Ship “SOMERSET” - Mr. J Park (Engineer) departed Liverpool, arrived Sydney.
He may not have been travelling with May, if he was brought out by the government. She may have followed him later, and / or she may have travelled under a different surname, if they were not married.
If Joseph left on a ship for Australia in Aug 1908 ,it's hardly likely he was back in Birmingham to be married on 17th Sept 1908.
I think they made that one up!
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Can you please list all the information on the certificate.
My grandfather John Frederick birth cert 1/8/1911 - Australia NSW
May (née Claridge) aged 29 - born Birmingham
Joseph Parkes aged 37 - born Birmingham - Grinder, Engineering works
Married 17th September 1908 Birmingham England
Where and when was the birth registered.
What is the birth place....where was baby born.
Who is the informant.
Under a heading....previous issue....what do you see.
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Can you please list all the information on the certificate.
Joseph’s (2nd marriage) cert to Dorothy Murray. 15th December 1925
Joseph - 50 yrs - mechanic - birth Birmingham -
Parents - Phillip Parkes/Moulder/deceased & Phoebe (née Sanders)/deceased
Where were they married....church?...registry office?
Who are the witnesses?
Are there any addresses on the certificate?
What information do you see relating to the first marriage?
What information do you see for Dorothy Murray. Can you list it please. All the information. Everything.
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Seems there was a mr and Mrs Parker & infant who went to London…and also a mr and Mrs Parkes & infant who went to Fremantle in the trove newspaper info.
No you are confused about this. Please review the posts and especially read my reply #20.
There was no couple named Parker (newspaper error).
The Parkes disembarked in Fremantle, the ship continued on to London.
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Wivenhoe
Birth registered 25/8/1911. Sydney
Witness - nurses from Women’s Hospital Crown Street ??
Informant - May Parkes, 29 waterloo street (no suburb listed)
Second marriage cert details
15/12/25 St Albans (church) Highgate Hill WA
Reg’d 6/1/1926
No mention of first marriage
No witnesses mentioned
Dorothy Grace Murray / hairdresser / spinster 28
Father John Beverley Murray deceased
Mother Amy cecelia Hummer deceased
That’s it!
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Neale1961.
Ok…3 newspaper articles over different 3 dates.
Only one got the spelling correct…but what was the ACTUAL date they arrived in Fremantle?
From that Moldavia shipping list you’ve seen ??
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/229690309
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/15435079
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/79856160
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On the second marriage, Joseph was a widower.
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Neale1961.
Ok…3 newspaper articles over different 3 dates.
Only one got the spelling correct…but what was the ACTUAL date they arrived in Fremantle?
From that Moldavia shipping list you’ve seen ??
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/229690309
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/15435079
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/79856160
21st July. The passenger list can be viewed on Ancestry.
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Second marriage cert details
15/12/25 St Albans (church) Highgate Hill WA
Reg’d 6/1/1926
No mention of first marriage
No witnesses mentioned
Dorothy Grace Murray / hairdresser / spinster 28
Father John Beverley Murray deceased
Mother Amy cecelia Hummer deceased
That’s it!
Hi,
I feel concerned that this information is incomplete.
In my experience and according to legal requirements, this is the information which should appear on a Western Australian Marriage certificate.
MARRIAGE
Date
Couple's names
Couple's ages
Couple's birthplaces
Previous status
Couple's occupations
Couple's residences
Fathers' names
Fathers' occupations
Groom's mothers name
Where the information is not known or unavailable, there will be an entry to reflect that, such as, "Not Known" Rather than a blank space.
You have omitted all details of the bridegroom or his marital status, addresses, .
I would have thought a witness or 2 would be expected too.
However if that is all your document holds, then it is very odd!
Sue
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Another immigration possibility ......
Mr and Mrs Parkes (British)
- passengers on “MONGOLIA” from London to Sydney, arriving 16 November 1910
No other detail on passenger manifest.
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Another immigration possibility ......
Mr and Mrs Parkes (British)
- passengers on “MONGOLIA” from London to Sydney, arriving 16 November 1910
No other detail on passenger manifest.
I’d discounted this one, as it has PARKES T. Of course, a T could easily be mistranscribed from a J.
https://marinersandships.com.au/1910/11/104mon.htm
The Moldavia also left Fremantle on the 21st. 2nd page, 2nd column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article229688930
Jamjar
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I’d discounted this one, as it has PARKES T. Of course, a T could easily be mistranscribed from a J.
https://marinersandships.com.au/1910/11/104mon.htm
Looking at the original passenger list (not a transcript) I cannot see letter “T”.
To me, it simply says Parkes, Mr & Mrs. :)
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At reply #28
"Initially the BDM here in Perth couldn’t even find May on their system. But her death cert was posted out but there’s no helpful info on it."
Why was there a problem finding May?
WA BDM death
PARKES May F(emale) died 1925 NORTHAM 189 /1925
At reply #25
"May was on a 1901 uk census but not on the next."
What are you seeing on the Census, 1901?....enough information please for others to locate it.
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Looking at the original passenger list (not a transcript) I cannot see letter “T”.
To me, it simply says Parkes, Mr & Mrs. :)
The Fremantle arrival has them as Mr G.A. PARKES and Mrs. PARKES.
Debra :)
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1901 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSZD-CLB
Piece: 2879; Folio: 147; Page number: 32
Debra :)
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And he did come out to work at Lithgow arms NSW but they had no record of him.
The Lithgow small arms factory did not open until 1912. It was still being built and awaiting the machinery when Joseph's son was born in Sydney in August 1911.
The earliest electoral roll that I can see them on in WA is 1915.
Debra :)
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At reply #28
"Initially the BDM here in Perth couldn’t even find May on their system. But her death cert was posted out but there’s no helpful info on it."
Why was there a problem finding May?
WA BDM death
PARKES May F(emale) died 1925 NORTHAM 189 /1925
At reply #25
"May was on a 1901 uk census but not on the next."
What are you seeing on the Census, 1901?....enough information please for others to locate it.
May on all censuses was posted in reply #13.
Jamjar
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Sparrett
All info that you listed is on the marriage cert.
more info further back.
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Another immigration possibility ......
Mr and Mrs Parkes (British)
- passengers on “MONGOLIA” from London to Sydney, arriving 16 November 1910
No other detail on passenger manifest.
Neale1961
On Joseph’s death cert it says he spent 4 years in NSW & 16 in WA.
They got married in 1908, so if they arrived in Sydney 1910…and then Fremantle in 1913…that could be them on your info.
FYI. It took me ages, but I finally found the shipping passenger list you mentioned on ancestry.
No matter if you have all the correct dates, names & spelling it pulls up everything but what you want.
It’s not an easy place to find stuff.
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And he did come out to work at Lithgow arms NSW but they had no record of him.
The Lithgow small arms factory did not open until 1912. It was still being built and awaiting the machinery when Joseph's son was born in Sydney in August 1911.
The earliest electoral roll that I can see them on in WA is 1915.
Debra :)
https://www.lithgowsafmuseum.org.au/history.html
Jamjar
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Wivenhoe
In 1901 May and her mother Mary Claridge were living in Birmingham..Aston. Looks like 12 Warell or Marell road
May was a school teacher.
When I called Perth BDM they said they had no record of her in their computer search. But said pay the $40 and if we don’t find her you’ll get your money back. Told her I knew she was there cause she has a grave site. Maybe they had a glitch at the time.
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1871 Aston, Birmingham
Philip PARKES aged 18, born Birmingham. Living 272 Watery Lane Aston . He is the son of Henry and Mary Ann and has siblings.
Piece- 3141
Folio-117
Page number- 26
He is a plane maker as are others of his male family. The area had brass and metal works employing local workers.
A moulder is one who makes moulds for the manufacture of metal tools and other items. A plane is a metal tool used in carpentry.
Sue
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The Lithgow small arms factory did not open until 1912. It was still being built and awaiting the machinery when Joseph's son was born in Sydney in August 1911.
The earliest electoral roll that I can see them on in WA is 1915.
Debra :)
That threw a spanner in it. But I know Joseph did work there (via my grandfather) as he was in munitions. It’s trying to tie down the right Parkes on the right ship. Seems Birmingham was all Parkes 😁
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The nearest Phebe /Phoebe SANDERS to Philip PARKES of a suitable age is a 20 year old single woman who, in 1871, lived in Sheffield, Staffordshire. Not very close at all to Aston. ::)
Phebe SANDERS
Piece 4687
Folio 32
Page number 7
She is unemployed on census night and lives with her father William, a labourer and her 22 year old brother.
Sue
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1871 Aston, Birmingham
Philip PARKES aged 18, born Birmingham. Living 272 Watery Lane Aston . He is the son of Henry and Mary Ann and has siblings.
Piece- 3141
Folio-117
Page number- 26
He is a plane maker as are others of his male family. The area had brass and metal works employing local workers.
A moulder is one who makes moulds for the manufacture of metal tools and other items. A plane is a metal tool used in carpentry.
Sue
I did wonder about it, also: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KD82-GH4
Andrea, if you read the history carefully, you will note that negotiations began earlier. Although the British companies didn’t win the tender, Joseph may have been sent out during negotiations. He also may have been involved in the setting up of machinery for the 1912 opening.
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Sparrett…Sue
Seems all the male Parkes in Birmingham were metal workers/engineers.
That Philip/Phillip gives a me a bit more to go on. If correct one it’d make him 21 when Joseph was born.
I’ll look further into him
Ta
I did find Joseph(27) on a 1901 census in Walsall Staffordshire with his mum Phoebe(widowed 59) & her niece Lilly(18).
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Mar 1850 Aston 16 262
PARKES Henry
SMITH Mary Ann
PARKES, PHILIP EDWIN mmn SMITH
GRO Reference: 1853 S Quarter in ASTON Volume 06D Page 242
Jamjar
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Jamjar.
they got married in 1908, and IF shipping records London to sydney are correct for 1910, my grandfather born 1911 then they travelled to Fremantle 1913, that could’ve happened.
Word is he was asked to go out to australia to join Lithgow arms.
They were in Sydney 4 years, but that could’ve been a bit less. 🤔
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I did find Joseph(27) on a 1901 census in Walsall Staffordshire with his mum Phoebe(widowed 59) & her niece Lilly(18).
Under what surname?
Added: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSQB-3ND
A polisher is very different from an engineer.
Jamjar
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Jamjar.
Parkes.
Yes…and 10 years later @37 he was grinder, engineer on my grandfathers birth cert.
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I think that Phoebe was the wife of John Parkes:
1871: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KDD8-47R
1891: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:WQQL-CPZ
Jamjar
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I did find Joseph(27) on a 1901 census in Walsall Staffordshire with his mum Phoebe(widowed 59) & her niece Lilly(18).
That Joseph was discounted back in reply #5. He is still working in Walsall as a polisher in 1911 census, and married. His mother's maiden name was GENT.
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The nearest Phebe /Phoebe SANDERS to Philip PARKES of a suitable age is a 20 year old single woman who, in 1871, lived in Sheffield, Staffordshire. Not very close at all to Aston. ::)
Phebe SANDERS
Piece 4687
Folio 32
Page number 7
She is unemployed on census night and lives with her father William, a labourer and her 22 year old brother.
Sue
A possibility. I used SAUNDERS with phonetically similar variations and only one suitable.
SANDERS, JOSEPH -
GRO Reference: 1873 J Quarter in LICHFIELD Volume 06B Page 448
Jamjar
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I did find Joseph(27) on a 1901 census in Walsall Staffordshire with his mum Phoebe(widowed 59) & her niece Lilly(18).
That Joseph was discounted back in reply #5. He is still working in Walsall as a polisher in 1911 census, and married. His mother's maiden name was GENT.
PARKES, JOSEPH mmn GENT
GRO Reference: 1875 S Quarter in WALSALL Volume 06B Page 690
Jamjar
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Seems there are way too many Joseph Parkes. I’m searching everywhere for a connection to Phillip & Phoebe. No birth, no baptism, no link to parents.
Could it be possible that UK parish records were lost thru fire or ??? And so they can’t be found?
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A possibility. I used SAUNDERS with phonetically similar variations and only one suitable.
SANDERS, JOSEPH -
GRO Reference: 1873 J Quarter in LICHFIELD Volume 06B Page 448
Jamjar
I wonder if this boy died in infancy
(EDIT) June quarter 1873
SANDERS Joseph
Aged 0
At Lichfield 6b/239
Sue
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Lets go back to what you defiantly know.
John F was born 1/8/1911 in Sydney.
Father Joseph was described as a Grinder Engineering Works.
Not at Lithgow, the factory hadn't opened at that time.
So how many engineering works were they in Sydney at that time?
He appears to have been a workman, not super skilled so I don't think he was involved in setting up the factory, so I think you can discount that story.
The Birmingham marriage I think you can be sure that didn't take place, at that time no person would have dreamed that in 100 plus years in the future their descendants would be able to check out easily any story they told.
I guess Joseph or whatever his original name was had been married in the UK and had taken up with May and they left for Australia possibly changing names en route.
Have you tried DNA? It could possibly throw up some clues.
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Lets go back to what you defiantly know.
John F was born 1/8/1911 in Sydney.
Father Joseph was described as a Grinder Engineering Works.
Not at Lithgow, the factory hadn't opened at that time.
So how many engineering works were they in Sydney at that time?
He appears to have been a workman, not super skilled so I don't think he was involved in setting up the factory, so I think you can discount that story.
Sorry..but this throws a spanner in your assumption of Joseph.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/81001167
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This entire search started because my grandfather had told his sons (my dad & his brother) that they were related to Sir Henry Parkes. That one of Henry’s brothers was a great uncle of his.
Henry’s family tree is not easy to locate. Most info is about Henry not his siblings families.
So all of us grew up being told the same info that my grandfather said back in the late 1940s.
Also…that May was from the Claridge hotel line.
He told my dad when he was young…that when his mother May died, he moved out from his fathers house because he was so angry at Joseph for remarrying 3 months after May died. He had her trunk full of personal effects and he moved into a lodging house. In that trunk was Claridge family jewels and keepsakes. When he got back from his work…it was all gone.
I have info on Mays mother’s side…the Parsonages…but not the Claridges.
We all know there are family Chinese whispers…I just don’t understand why my grandfather would say this stuff…and then it turns out that Joseph and May are hard to find info on. 🤔
I want to get info one way or the other for my family future gens…so thank you for any help you’ve given so far. It’s tiring but I’m going through it.
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Andrea My interest in family history started when my aunt insisted my family was due to inherit from the Jennings Millions ( Google it )
She had many years ago spent hours trying to research the family history, living in London she had access to records way before the internet was even thought of.
I spent many hours trying to research the Jennings family coming up against a brick wall for a long time.
When I eventually did crack it it turned out the man who brought the Jennings name into the family wasn't born Jennings it was the surname of the man his mother married some time after his birth.
So you just can't believe family stories you have to look at facts.
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my grandfather had told his sons (my dad & his brother) that they were related to Sir Henry Parkes
I think similar family stories have been handed down in many Parkes families. In my case via Job Parkes born Smethwick in 1809, and his father Joseph Parkes. No connection found so far.
That one of Henry’s brothers was a great uncle of his.
Then Henry himself and all the other brothers would be great uncles too wouldn't they? Apart that is from the one who is the grandfather.
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Although they were married in Perth, Dorothy Grace MURRAY had been registered to vote in Busselton where she was employed as a barmaid.
I wonder had Joseph travelled there and so had met her.
MURRAY, Dorothy Grace, Esplanade Hotel Busselton, WA.
A sad death for her father
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/237026255
A flippant and rather sarcastic report of a previous attempt.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/257877222
He had been widowed very early
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/257747953
Sue
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I have had a look at the Claridge family. Hoping the following is easy enough to follow.
You do have some publicans in past generations of your Claridge family, so maybe over time this became embellished into a London hotel owner. ;)
1861 census Daventry Northamptonshire. 90 Sheaf street
James CLARIDGE, head, 56, master cooper , born Daventry
Mary Ann CLARIDGE, wife, 60
Mary Ann CLARIDGE daughter, 20, single
James CLARIDGE son, 18, single
1861 census Living next door to the Claridge family , at 89 Sheaf St Daventry was
Mary PARSONAGE, lodger, single, 19, sewing machine operator, born London
James CLARIDGE born 1843 Daventry & Mary PARSONAGE – They married 3 Dec 1864 at Daventry
(On marriage record - James’s occupation is a clicker; his Father was James CLARIDGE snr, occupation Cooper)
Children:
• Charles Piddington CLARIDGE 1866 Daventry; died 1867
• Harry James CLARIDGE 1868 Daventry (by 1891 married and a publican in Brearley St. St George Birmingham)
• Gap? Why?
• Florence Eaves CLARIDGE 1876 Birmingham
• Minnie Eaves CLARIDGE 1878 Birmingham
• Edith Eaves CLARIDGE 1880 Birmingham
• May Eaves CLARIDGE 1882 Birmingham
Question – where does the Eaves name come from. James’ brother William married a Catherine Eaves. I am a little suspicious.
In 1871 /1881 census James is a publican in St George Birmingham.
By 1891 his wife Mary is a widow and working as a victualler with daughters Florence and May. She died 1912.
I don’t know when James died. The 1907 death is not him.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
One generation earlier……….
James CLARIDGE snr married Daventry 14 June 1827 to Ann BLAND (died 1 July 1830, age 26)
2nd married 8 Sep 1831 Northampton All Saints to Mary Ann THOMPSON
Children baptised Daventry Holy Cross (Father’s occupation is Cooper)
• John bapt 31 Jan 1828
• Charles bapt 30 Jul 1829
• Ann bapt 5 Nov 1832
• Elizabeth bapt 1 July 1834
• William bapt 14 June 1836 (married Catherine EAVES 4 Feb 1860 Coleshill Warwickshire)
• Martha bapt 3 May 1838
• Mary Ann bapt 8 Mar 1841
• James CLARIDGE 26 Mar 1843 (married Mary PARSONAGE)
1851 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGY9-Y9H
James CLARIDGE snr burial 3 May 1864 Daventry (59 yrs)
Mary Ann (Thompson) CLARIDGE burial 15 Nov 1867 Daventry (66 yrs)
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Another generation earlier ………
John CLARRIDGE (bachelor) marriage 27 Apr 1797 Daventry to Lydia WAWMAN (widow from Weedon Bec)
Children: (Father’s occupation is Fish Monger, and later Victualler/ Innholder)
• Elizabeth bapt 4 July 1797 Weedon Bec St Peter & Paul
• John bapt 12 Apr 1799 Daventry Holy Cross
• Martha bapt 16 Apr 1800 Daventry
• John bapt 12 Aug 1802 Daventry
• James CLARIDGE baptism 8 Feb 1805, born 27 Jan Daventry (married Mary Ann Thompson)
• Martha bapt 14 Mar 1808 Daventry
• Lydia bapt 22 Mar 1810 Daventry
• Charles bapt 3 Jan 1812 Daventry
• Mary Ann bapt 18 Oct 1813
John CLARIDGE burial 7 Jun 1844 Daventry (age 75)
Lydia CLARIDGE burial 15 Aug 1844 Daventry (age 73)
(Lydia was possibly bapt Lyddy THOMPSON 17 Nov 1771 Weedon Bec – parents Thomas and Eliz.)
1841 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7QQ-GDJ
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Neale1961.
Thank you. I have the Parsonage side tree, but that only mentions May and Florence, no other kids. And after Mary Claridge (née Parsonages) brother Thomas(a beer house publican d:1890) & sister in law Julia(d:1889) die…she takes on her niece, Florence Parsonage & runs the business.
I’ve been suspect of the ‘eaves’ name as there’s no mention of them on the tree info I got back in 2012.
My cousin had the eaves on her tree but it doesn’t fit.
But you’ve given me info on the claridges. Ta.
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Sparret
Sue. Thank you for that.
I haven’t started looking at Joseph’s second marriage yet. My farmer dad, John Parkes, lives in north Western Australia…and there are 2 other John Parkes up there near him.
We’ve wondered if Joseph had kids with Dorothy in their 5 years of marriage…as she was only 28 when she married Joseph.
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Jaywit.
That’s why I’m doing what I’m doing. My entire focus has been on the elusive Joseph.
But on my mum’s Clifton side…those rumours turned out true. By My 4x great grandmother, Elinor Bell, who married a Clifton, we are ancestors of king edward 1st. Kate Middleton is also an ancestor of king Edward 1st. That huge tree was done when snail mail was big. Now it’s all online to just look up.
And masses have heard about the USA presidents all being connected in some way and to royalty…thru that same Bell line…we are many lines tied to many USA presidents. It’s jaw dropping amazing what can be found. 🙂
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We’ve wondered if Joseph had kids with Dorothy in their 5 years of marriage…as she was only 28 when she married Joseph.
I can't see any births registered in WA to Joseph and Dorothy.
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Andrea, Do you have May Claridge's birth certificate? What names does it give for parents? I wonder if Florence, Minnie, Edith and May all have one parent from the Eaves family.
I notice that Edith Eaves Claridge born 1880, was baptised in 29 Dec 1882, and her father is named as Richard (not James as you would expect). I wonder if this was Richard Eaves? ??? Of course it might be an error on the baptism register, but I am curious.
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Sparret
Sue. Thank you for that.
I haven’t started looking at Joseph’s second marriage yet. My farmer dad, John Parkes, lives in north Western Australia…and there are 2 other John Parkes up there near him.
We’ve wondered if Joseph had kids with Dorothy in their 5 years of marriage…as she was only 28 when she married Joseph.
Surely your father would have known if he had half-siblings.
Was there no contact even at his father's funeral or in the settling of his estate?
Sue
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In 1871 /1881 census James is a publican in St George Birmingham.
By 1891 his wife Mary is a widow and working as a victualler with daughters Florence and May.
I'm struggling with him in 1881.
1880 Kelly's Directory of Birmingham
Claridge Mary (Mrs.), King's Head, 125 Brearley street
1881 Census, 125 Brearley Street, Birmingham
Harry Claridge Head Mar 38 Licenced Victualler, born London
Harry Claridge S(on) 12 Scholar Daventry Northampton
Florence Claridge D 4 Scholar B'ham
Minnie Claridge D 3 B'ham
Edith Claridge D 11 months B'ham
Richard Evans Visitor Un 34 Grocer B'ham
Mary Ann Hodgetts Servant 17 Servant B'ham
Is Richard Evans actually Richard Eaves?
Is Harry Claridge the victualler really Mary? :-\
Birmingham Mail, 21 June 1882 (ocr text)
WHOLESALE ILLEGAL SUNDAY TRADING. Mary Claridge, the landlady of the King’s Head, Lower Brearley Street, was summoned for keeping her licensed premises open for the sale of intoxicating liquor on Sunday, the 11th inst., between 7.30 a.m. and 9.30 a.m.— Police constable William Cook stated that the morning of Sunday, the 11th inst., he and another officer secreted themselves.....(continues)
In the Birmingham Mail, 24 Aug 1882
Mary Claridge, King’s Head, Lower Brearley Street, was fined with costs, improper hours.
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Hey Jonw65.
I have been wondering exactly who Richard Evans was too. I don’t think he is the same as Richard Eaves. The Eaves family were saddlers and harness makers. I will look some more later.
Good finds re Mary as the publican. YES, now it makes more sense that on the 1881 census, the head of house “Harry” is actually Mary. she was after all born in London.
So where was James - wandered off, or died? And then who was the real father of those girls?
A family of many mysteries!
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A family of many mysteries!
Indeed, Neale!
Poor May. The identity of her husband may be in doubt, and now her father as well!
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Maybe James did wander off, and that is him in the 1891 and 1901 census working in Birmingham as a tram driver. He has two children with him - John (born 1887) and Martha (born 89).
And in 1891 he has another / different wife named Mary.
That James died 1907.
ADDED.
Those two Claridge children John and Martha, have birth registrations with mother’s maiden name as BASTOCK.
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This might be Joseph Parkes on the GRO with an unusual name spelling:
Joseph Ernest "PAERKES", mother's maiden name Sanders, birth registered December 1873 quarter Pontypridd Volume 11A Page 335
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This might be Joseph Parkes on the GRO with an unusual name spelling:
Joseph Ernest "PAERKES", mother's maiden name Sanders, birth registered December 1873 quarter Pontypridd Volume 11A Page 335
Great find!
1881 in Amblecote, Staffordshire
Ernest Josh. Perks 7 Scholar, born Ponty Pride South Wales
With siblings, and living with grandparents Henry & Mary Ann Perks
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27F-KJTF
Birth of sister Phoebe
PERKS, PHOEBE LOUISA
Mother's Maiden Surname: SAUNDERS
GRO Reference: 1871 D Quarter in STOURBRIDGE Volume 06C Page 173
Brother Henry
PERKS, HENRY PEEL
Mother's Maiden Surname: SAUNDERS
GRO Reference: 1868 M Quarter in STOURBRIDGE Volume 06C Page 188
1871 in Amblecote
William Perks Head 31 Chair Maker
Pheoboe Perks Wife 26
Emma Littlewood 7
Henry Perks Son 3
Mary Anne Perks Daug 1 (yr) 10 ms??
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5R1-4H8
Previous house is Henry & Mary Anne Perks as per 1871
Spellings not perfect, my transcriptions may not be either!
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Oops!
I think I've gone wrong somewhere there!
William Henry Wallace Perks married Phoebe Littlewood, widow.
21 Apr 1867, Brierley Hill
Bride's father Charles Cartwright.
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Henry Peel Perks + Mary Saunders
4 March 1867, Dudley.
So Henry and Mary are in the household in Amblecote in 1881, along with their children. Living with his parents.
And the Henrys are chain makers (not chair makers!)
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He may be the Ernest Perks, tube drawer, in Handsworth, in 1901 and 1911.
Age 27 and 37.
Born Wales.
Married to Jane.
If so, he is eliminated :(
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If so, he is eliminated :(
Indeed, eliminated. Like a few other possibilities I have explored - so full of potential at the outset, but then ultimately proves to be no good.
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Given that Joseph claims to have worked at both Kynoch’s and BSA for over 12 years, during the Boer war, and before coming to Australia, he must have been there during the 1901 census and earlier. The munitions factories and the “gun quarter” were in the Aston district of Birmingham. This is also where Joseph’s future wife May Claridge was living. Therefore, I have concentrated my search specifically on Aston Birmingham.
Although there are a few Parks families around, the name Philip Parkes is not so common. Also the name Phoebe Sanders is not very common.
We do find a possible Phoebe Sanders and a possible Philip Parkes in Aston at the right time, but is there any connection?
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Phoebe SANDERS born 1846 Aston, Birmingham to Charles SANDERS (a wire drawer) and Sarah WARREN
In 1865 Phoebe married Thomas KELLY (KELLEY), a labourer, born 1841 either Worcestershire or Ireland.
4 children born to Phoebe and Thomas Kelly registered in Aston Birmingham :-
• William Henry 1866
• Henry 1870
• Sarah 1871
• Joseph 1874 (GRO Reference: 1874 S Quarter in ASTON Volume 06D Page 284)
In the 1871 census Phoebe is with her husband Thomas and her first 2 children living in Aston, Birmingham
What happened to Thomas and the children after that ? – they seem to disappear. Can anyone find the son named Joseph born 1874?
By 1881 census Phoebe has become “wife” of John Henry FISHER (Was not able to find a marriage)
In 1891 census Phoebe is still living in Aston with John FISHER.
5 Children born to Phoebe and John Fisher registered in Aston:
• Elizabeth Sarah 1879
• Alice 1881
• John 1882
• Phoebe 1886
• John Henry 1888
Phoebe (Sanders – Kelly) FISHER died 1893 Birmingham
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From Reply #61 from sparrett 15 July
Philip Edwin PARKES born 1853. He was the ‘plane / tool maker”.
In the 1871 census Philip is single, living with his family in Aston. It is possible he fathered an illegitimate child born 1874.
By 1881 Philip has partnered with Mary Ann PALMER, and their first child was born October 1874.
Note: Philip and Mary Ann did not marry until 1890.
Philip died in 1930.
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Hi All,
I have been working through much of the above information with Neale over the last few days (by PM :D)
I believe this to be the most likely correct couple.
I am speculating that there was a relationship between Philip and Phoebe preceding the second marriage/partnership of both.
Sue
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What happened to Thomas and the children after that ? – they seem to disappear. Can anyone find the son named Joseph born 1874?
Great minds think alike. Aren't they in the Bromsgrove Union Workhouse in 1881?
Piece: 2940
Folio: 127
Page Number: 5
Debra :)
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Yes, Debra. That does appear to be them, even though ages not quite right and incorrect birth place. I wonder how long they had been in the workhouse.
Where are they after that?
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I thought that Joseph KELLY might be the one who married Mabel Eva NEEDHAM in Derbyshire in 1900, father Thomas, a labourer. In 1901 he is born in Birmingham, in 1911 he is born in Bromsgrove.
Debra :)
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This is getting complicated..
On the 1890 marriage of Mary Ann PALMER and Philip PARKES, witness is JOHN FISHER the same name as the "husband" of Phoebe KELLY.
Ancestry link. The image marriage of PARKES and PALMER 1890
https://www.ancestry.com.au/imageviewer/collections/4994/images/40458_316788-00131
Sue
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I thought that Joseph KELLY might be the one who married Mabel Eva NEEDHAM in Derbyshire in 1900, father Thomas, a labourer. In 1901 he is born in Birmingham, in 1911 he is born in Bromsgrove.
Debra :)
Yes, it does look as if that is the same Joseph .... and there is another Joseph eliminated. :'(
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Yes, it does look like wrong track again >:(
Sue
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On the 1890 marriage of Mary Ann PALMER and Philip PARKES, witness is JOHN FISHER the same name as the "husband" of Phoebe KELLY.
That is an interesting find Sue, but I am not convinced he is Phoebe's partner John Fisher. His signature is different when he witnesses the marriage of his daughter, Elizabeth Sarah in 1896.
I don't think it is the link we need between Phoebe and Philip.
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Can anyone remind me please....what response to this request at reply #32?
Can you please list all the information on the birth certificate, 1911, NSW.
Can you please list all the information on the marriage certificate, 2nd marriage, W.A.
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HI wivenhoe,
Reply #38 offered some information about the contents of the certificates.
Sue
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Thank you for that.
It would be useful to have all the information, from both records, at one place ie here.
Andrea - can you please list all the information on the birth certificate, NSW....and the marriage certificate, Western Australia.
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Wivenhoe.
It was ALL in #38 & #44.
Wivenhoe. ETC
My grandfather John Frederick birth cert 1/8/1911 - Australia NSW
May (née Claridge) aged 29 - born Birmingham
Joseph Parkes aged 37 - born Birmingham - Grinder, Engineering works
Married 17th September 1908 Birmingham England
Joseph’s (2nd marriage) cert to Dorothy Murray. 15th December 1925
Joseph - 50 yrs - mechanic - birth Birmingham - widowed (date unknown recorded)
Parents - Phillip Parkes/Moulder/deceased & Phoebe (née Sanders)/deceased
May Parkes (née Claridge) born 1883 / death 15/9/25
Joseph Parkes born 1874?? / death 23/5/1931
Birth registered 25/8/1911. Sydney
Witness - nurses from Women’s Hospital Crown Street ??
Informant - May Parkes, 29 waterloo street (no suburb listed)
Second marriage cert details
15/12/25 St Albans (church) Highgate Hill WA
Reg’d 6/1/1926
No mention of first marriage
No witnesses mentioned
Dorothy Grace Murray / hairdresser / spinster 28
Father John Beverley Murray deceased
Mother Amy cecelia Hummer deceased
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Neale1961 #90
Mary(née Parsonage) married James Claridge in Daventry Essex November 1864.
Thats the only info about him on the Parsonage family tree.
The lady who did the Parsonage tree said she couldn’t find May(18) after the 1901 UK census. She was in Aston Birmingham with Mary(59)
I have Mary on a 1991 census as a licensed victualler. (103 new John street beer house Aston Warks) Which she took over after her brother Thomas Parsonage died November 1890 & his wife Julia died august 1889. Mary took on her niece Florence.
The other kids Ernest went with Harry Claridge (publican) and Victoria went with Henry J Claridge(innkeeper). Im seeing the trend for hotel owning. 2 other boys James & Samuel went to Cottage Homes Coleshill Birmingham.
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Jorose / Jonw65
This might be Joseph Parkes on the GRO with an unusual name spelling:
Joseph Ernest "PAERKES", mother's maiden name Sanders, birth registered December 1873 quarter Pontypridd Volume 11A Page 335
Does it pan out that that Joseph is the correct one…or even a big possibility at this stage?
If so…a huge thank you ☺️
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The birth certificate, 1911, NSW, should ask for "previous issue".
What do you see?
How did you access the marriage certificate, 1925, WA......where did you get it from?
Is it a handwritten document...with signatures?.......a transcription?
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Does it pan out that that Joseph is the correct one
Sorry, it seems he is not the one.
It may even be that the team has now eliminated nearly all possible Joseph Parkes? :-\
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Wivenhoe
1911 birth cert has nothing about ‘previous issue’ on it.
Birth certs I got from BDM NSW
This cert is hand written & states it’s a copy of original.
Marriage cert from BDM WA.
It is a typed up newer version.
Would be great if we could add pics on this platform 🙄
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Does it pan out that that Joseph is the correct one
Sorry, it seems he is not the one.
It may even be that the team has now eliminated nearly all possible Joseph Parkes? :-\
So it seems I’m back to where I started from☹️, though I do now have WHEN they entered Fremantle WA.
Thank you to all for your efforts.
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Hi all. Does anyone know how much approx it would cost for a genealogist to look into Joseph? I can’t leave that part of my family blank. Thank you.
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Hi all. Does anyone know how much approx it would cost for a genealogist to look into Joseph? I can’t leave that part of my family blank. Thank you.
What makes you think a hired genealogist will locate the missing birth record when you do not know with any certainty the name of his parents? A registered birth in the approximate year and to the parental names he gives, does not exist on the public record .
Team members here at Rootschat have applied their skill voluntarily to a thorough exploration of existing records and other closely linked records too.
You have no certainty that anything he stated on his certificates was true and he may have had reason to deceive.
OR
The birth was simply not registered.
There is many a family tree which contain a part of family blank where there is no located information and this is preferable to ascribing something that "is likely" or "possibly" or "based on family stories"
I know nothing about the commission rates of professional genealogist, so no help there.
Sue
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Andrea Have you tried DNA?
As Sparret says what do you think a professional genealogist can find that Rootschat members can't?