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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Wexford => Topic started by: ken murphy on Friday 08 July 22 18:06 BST (UK)
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Am enquiring if anyone has any information concerning James (Jem) Tobin and Margaret (Peggy) Dunbar. As best as I can establish they lived in the Ballycarney area of Ferns in the 1830's, and were likely married in 1830/1831, though there is no record of the marriage in Ferns.
With regard to James Tobin, I have been unable to discover when or where he was born. He most likely died (my best guess) between 1865 and 1871.
I do know that Margaret Tobin died in Ballyvaloo on 28th September 1871, but as to when or where she was born I have no idea.
I have all the relevant information of the children born of the marriage (at least the ones that I've discovered) - Thomas (1832-1877), Sarah (1833-1891 and Margaret (1836-1916).
Anyone out there able to help?
Thank You :)
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Am enquiring if anyone has any information concerning James (Jem) Tobin and Margaret (Peggy) Dunbar. As best as I can establish they lived in the Ballycarney area of Ferns in the 1830's, and were likely married in 1830/1831, though there is no record of the marriage in Ferns.
With regard to James Tobin, I have been unable to discover when or where he was born. He most likely died (my best guess) between 1865 and 1871.
I do know that Margaret Tobin died in Ballyvaloo on 28th September 1871, but as to when or where she was born I have no idea.
I have all the relevant information of the children born of the marriage (at least the ones that I've discovered) - Thomas (1832-1877), Sarah (1833-1891 and Margaret (1836-1916).
Anyone out there able to help?
Thank You :)
There are several Dunbar families in the Ferns area - have you looked at them, just to see where they lived?
I presume you have checked the tythe valuation for Ferns, which includes Ballycarney?
Why do you think the Margaret Tobin who died in 1871 in Ballyvaloo is yours? Strikes me as too distant to be likely.
Who were the godparents for the children - any hints there?
Where did the children live/what did they do? Do they give information/hints as to what James Tobin was - ie. a farmer, laborer, or something else?
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Thank you for your response.
The 3 children that I found were all baptised in Ferns.
Thomas - 15th January 1832 - Sponsors: Tom & Catherine Dunbar
Sarah (Sally) - 9th December 1833 - Sponsors: Mick Dunbar & Dolly Doran
Margaret - 8th September 1836 - Sponsors: James Dunbar & Mary Murphy
Margaret's marriage on 24th February 1865 to Moses Doyle, James Tobin's occupation is not listed - both spouses residences were recorded as Kilmacoe, Screen.
Thomas' marriage on 9th October 1871 to Margaret Doyle (sister of Moses Doyle), James Tobin's occupation is recorded as 'Labourer' - both spouses were resident in Kilmacoe, Screen.
Sarah married in Ferns (residence: Woodlands) to William Prandy in 2nd August 1857.
James Tobin is not recorded as 'Deceased' on Margaret's marriage in 1865, but is recorded as 'Deceased' on Thomas' marriage in 1871.
Margaret (Peggy) Dunbar died (widow) on 28th September 1871 in Ballyvaloo - Moses Doyle (son-in-law) was present at her death.
I have been unable to discover any further information on James Tobin, elsewhere.
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Thank you for your response.
The 3 children that I found were all baptised in Ferns.
Well, seems to me that there is good news and bad news.
The good news is that from the Ferns baptisms all including Dunbar godparents, it is clear that the Dunbar family were from the parish or very close by. With some application you may/should be able to figure out which one - not that common a name.
The bad news is that as James Tobin was a laborer, there is unlikely to be much in the way of early records for him other than parish records. What I would do is take a look at location of local Tobin families in tythe and Griffith's valuations - how many were there, and where? Just to get a feel for possibilities as to where he might have been from.
Finally, Kilmacoe is a ways from Ferns. An unusually long way, especially for a laboring family. Kilmacoe is next to Curracloe village, in fact the village church is in Kilmacoe. Why/how did the family move - any recollection?
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There were several Tobin Families in Ferns parish.
One of particular interest might be the James Tobin holding 3 acres in Ballybeg, as shown in the 1824 tythe valuation for the parish of Ferns. That is small enough that he could be described as a farmer or laborer, depending. Do any of the Ferns baptisms you found have a townland address?
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Thank you for your responses, Wexflyer.
Yes I was aware of the 1824 Tithe Valuation for James Tobin in Ballybeg & also the Griffiths Valuation in Bolabeg, though neither one is conclusive.
Is Ballybeg & Bolabeg one and the same?
With regard to the Baptisms - Coolbawn was the residence for Thomas (1832); no residence recorded for Sarah (1833); Crory was the residence for Margaret (1836).
My best guess would be that Peggy Tobin (nee Dunbar) moved to Ballyvaloo after Jem's death, to be nearer to her son (Thomas) and daughter (Margaret).
Sarah Prandy (nee Tobin) was living in Hill Street, Wexford at that time.
That's about as much as I can tell you :)
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“Sarah Prandy (nee Tobin) was living in Hill Street, Wexford at that time.”
Marriage 1857, Ferns
William Prandy and Sally Tobin, residence, Woodlands.
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Yes I was aware of the 1824 Tithe Valuation for James Tobin in Ballybeg & also the Griffiths Valuation in Bolabeg, though neither one is conclusive.
Is Ballybeg & Bolabeg one and the same?
No, different places.
Bola Beg
https://www.townlands.ie/wexford/scarawalsh/templeshanbo/ballindaggan/bola-beg/ (https://www.townlands.ie/wexford/scarawalsh/templeshanbo/ballindaggan/bola-beg/)
Ballybeg (the one you are interested in, there are many)
https://www.townlands.ie/wexford/scarawalsh/ferns/ballybeg/ballybeg/ (https://www.townlands.ie/wexford/scarawalsh/ferns/ballybeg/ballybeg/)
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Thanks for your help, Wexflyer :)
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With regard to the Baptisms - Coolbawn was the residence for Thomas (1832); no residence recorded for Sarah (1833); Crory was the residence for Margaret (1836).
From that it is clear that your James Tobin was an itinerant laborer - that is a laborer who moved from farm to farm for work, as opposed to having a fixed employment at one farm.
That being so, he could only be the James Tobin of the 1824 tythe valuation if he had lost his land holding in the 1824-1832 period. Which is of course possible but unknown.
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I wouldn't disagree with your conclusion, Wexflyer.
Thanks again for your help :)
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Some final comments to OP:
Are you relying on commercial transcriptions and indexing of the parish registers to look for Ferns baptisms and marriages, or did you look in person?
Commercial indexing can be quite unreliable - they tend to misread difficult entries, or unfamiliar names. Once I know a location for one of my own families, i always consult the originals myself.
Also, as James was obviously moving around, there may have been children earlier than 1832, or in the gaps, etc. Have you looked for other later Tobin marriages with father James? Just as a possibility.
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The source of my information is the NLI Parish Registers.
I have checked Marriages in Ferns from 1819 & Baptisms from 1819 to 1844.
I think it is unlikely that I have missed any Baptisms, especially given that the family was still resident in the Ferns area, at the time of Sarah's marriage in 1857.
I would say that my research has hit a dead end, and I am unlikely to discover when/where James & Margaret were born. With regard to their marriage, I have to assume that the priest failed to record it in the Register. As it wasn't mandatory to register a death, then it is unlikely I will discover when/where James died.
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.... With regard to their marriage, I have to assume that the priest failed to record it in the Register....
I would have a different assumption as being the most likely: That the bride was from a different parish, and that they were married in her home parish. This possibility is why I mentioned that children might have been born before 1832 or in gaps - children potentially born in other parishes.
Of course the records don't exist for those other parishes, but as the marriage records do exist for Ferns, and your James and Margaret aren't in them, this seems the most likely scenario to me.
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Wexflyer, your assumption could be correct. I didn't discount that possibility, and I did investigate it some time ago, without any luck.
I can't think of anywhere else to investigate.
Once again thanks for your help & suggestions :)
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I know I am a couple of years late in commenting on this thread, but I have only very recently discovered that this couple are my ancestors and then came across your post by chance. Have you managed to get any further with them? I have quite a lot of information on the Dunbars; I discovered that several of their descendants were my DNA matches.