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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Warwickshire => England => Warwickshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: stevetewk65 on Tuesday 05 July 22 12:35 BST (UK)

Title: Williams - Wardell marriage
Post by: stevetewk65 on Tuesday 05 July 22 12:35 BST (UK)
Hope someone can help, I can't see for looking!

I have a Thomas William Williams born 4th quarter 1875 (24th September I believe) in Birmingham and his mother's maiden name shows on FindMyPast as "Wardell". But I can't find a marriage between Miss Wardell and Mr Williams.  ???

Steve
 
Title: Re: Williams - Wardell marriage
Post by: Jamjar on Tuesday 05 July 22 12:48 BST (UK)
WILLIAMS, THOMAS  WILLIAM mmn WARDELL 
GRO Reference: 1875  D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM  Volume 06D  Page 172

WILLIAMS, MARK  HENRY mmn WARDELL 
GRO Reference: 1877  S Quarter in BIRMINGHAM  Volume 06D  Page 142

WILLIAMS, ALICE  MAUD mmn WARDELL 
GRO Reference: 1882  M Quarter in BIRMINGHAM  Volume 06D  Page 6

Jamjar
Title: Re: Williams - Wardell marriage
Post by: Jamjar on Tuesday 05 July 22 12:51 BST (UK)
Maybe they didn’t marry until later: Q Jun 1882 William to Mary Jane

1891 census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:W299-GPZ

Mark H in 1901: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X96G-NFW

Jamjar
Title: Re: Williams - Wardell marriage
Post by: ColC on Tuesday 05 July 22 13:02 BST (UK)
Maybe they didn’t marry until later: Q Jun 1882 William to Mary Jane

Jamjar

There is a marriage record for that on ancestry, William was 46 widower of 15 Pope Stand Mary Jane 26 of Summer Hill. Given the separate abodes it seems unlikely.

Colin
Title: Re: Williams - Wardell marriage
Post by: emeltom on Tuesday 05 July 22 13:03 BST (UK)
Do you have Thomas William in any of the Censuses? There is a Thomas W born 1875 in Birmingham in 1881 with parents John and Emma. This Thomas (and his siblings) is on the GRO Index with mmn George.

Thomas William Williams Dec 1874 Birmingham 6d 23 mmn George

John Williams married Emma George 23 October 1870 in Kingswinford Staffs
Title: Re: Williams - Wardell marriage
Post by: stevetewk65 on Tuesday 05 July 22 14:58 BST (UK)
Thanks all.

They could well have married later, but how to prove it?

I believe William Thomas married Gertrude Williams in 1895. They are on the 1901 census as a family but helpfully he is listed as Thomas William.
 
Emeltom, I previously had the Williams - George marriage down as my path but I now know their son was definitely born September 1875 so this one (birth Q Dec 1874) isn't a match.
Title: Re: Williams - Wardell marriage
Post by: ColC on Tuesday 05 July 22 18:29 BST (UK)
1901 census Enfield

Mark H Williams
Birth Place:   Birmingham, Warwickshire,
Age:   23
Estimated Birth Year:   about 1878
Spouse:   Matilda E Williams

Deaths Dec 1908 
WILLIAMS    Mark Henry    31    Edmonton    3a   258

Colin
Title: Re: Williams - Wardell marriage
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Tuesday 05 July 22 21:01 BST (UK)
On the marriage register Mark's father is also Thomas William Williams, a packer

Added: which matches William Williams' occupation in the suggested 1891 census
Title: Re: Williams - Wardell marriage
Post by: Jamjar on Wednesday 06 July 22 00:51 BST (UK)
1881 census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27N-H64Q

I think this is the father in 1871: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KD8T-RTH

If so, though, where are his children in 1881?

WILLIAMS, ELIZABETH  EMILY mmn HOLLOWAY 
GRO Reference: 1860  M Quarter in BIRMINGHAM  Volume 06D Page 191

WILLIAMS, SARAH  ANN mmn HOLLOW
GRO Reference: 1862  D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM  Volume 06D  Page 168

WILLIAMS, WILLIAM mmn HOLLOWAY 
GRO Reference: 1865  D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM  Volume 06D  Page 159

WILLIAMS, FREDERICK  HENRY mmn HOLLOWAY 
GRO Reference: 1867  D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM  Volume 06D  Page 191

WILLIAMS, CHARLES  ALBERT mmn HOLLOWAY death Dec 1871
GRO Reference: 1871  M Quarter in BIRMINGHAM  Volume 06D  Page 172

Jamjar
Title: Re: Williams - Wardell marriage
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Wednesday 06 July 22 19:41 BST (UK)
Just to note, Ancestry have transcribed him as F H on 1871, rather than T H as on the  Familysearch link, which looks correct from the image. He's also a painter not a packer

1861 - Frederick H Williams b Cheltenham, painter and decorator, with wife Elizabeth and children Elizabeth 1 and Martha 1 month

marriage 1859 - Frederick Henry, spouse Elizabeth Holloway  His father is Mark - so perhaps he's a relative of Thomas William given the latter calls his son Mark?

Added: there's a number of baptisms matching the birth registrations you listed, parents Frederick Henry and Elizabeth
Title: Re: Williams - Wardell marriage
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Wednesday 06 July 22 19:49 BST (UK)
Frederick Henry Williams
Age:    41
Death Q1  1878
Birmingham Vol 6d, p135