RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Clear on Saturday 02 July 22 12:25 BST (UK)
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In recent decades the "True Crimes" genre has greatly expanded with autobiographies of criminals, new films about famous crimes, they often seem to be making crime "a lark". There is however a much less glamorous side to these events.
Going back to Ludovic Kennedy and his campaign against miscarriages of justice it has always been very hard to find out about "frames" or miscarriages of justice which protected the in-crowd and took the lives of powerless innocents. Nobody helped them they were just laughed at.
The Old Bailey online site has court cases but there is no database of established miscarriages of justice and none of suspected miscarriages either. No wonder the establishment is laughing at us.
My London family was the victim of several "frames", anybody else discovered something in their family ?
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While there is no centralised database of miscarriages of justice, there are plenty of lists of some of the better known cases (eg Here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_miscarriage_of_justice_cases#United_Kingdom))
If you are seeking details of miscarriages which have been legally acknowledged as such then the best place to look is the annals of the Courts of Appeal within the various jurisdictions (Scotland, Northern Ireland and England and Wales) of the United Kingdom.
If you are more interested in alleged miscarriages, then this is a more contentious area. There is a huge number of projects (like the Innocence Project in the USA) run by various charities and academic institutions (eg here (https://www.gre.ac.uk/las/law-criminology/innocence-project)) which look at claims of this sort, some of which make it as far as the Criminal Case Review Commission (https://ccrc.gov.uk/). Then there are a number of campaigning groups who are perhaps slightly amateur in their approach and some of these border on conspiracy theorists.
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While there is no centralised database of miscarriages of justice, there are plenty of lists of some of the better known cases (eg Here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_miscarriage_of_justice_cases#United_Kingdom))
If you are seeking details of miscarriages which have been legally acknowledged as such then the best place to look is the annals of the Courts of Appeal within the various jurisdictions (Scotland, Northern Ireland and England and Wales) of the United Kingdom.
If you are more interested in alleged miscarriages, then this is a more contentious area. There is a huge number of projects (like the Innocence Project in the USA) run by various charities and academic institutions (eg here (https://www.gre.ac.uk/las/law-criminology/innocence-project)) which look at claims of this sort, some of which make it as far as the Criminal Case Review Commission (https://ccrc.gov.uk/). Then there are a number of campaigning groups who are perhaps slightly amateur in their approach and some of these border on conspiracy theorists.
Thank you very much. I will follow up those sources. ( and a copy of Ludovic Kennedy's biography if I can find one)
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From reading many thousands of threads on rootschat over many years, I get the impression that a lot of people think that the sun shone out of their ancestors and they they could never have done wrong.
There might have been some injustices (and there will be two sides to every story) but you’ve got to be realistic - plenty of our ancestors would not have been nice people, and many would have been criminals.
There’s nothing you can do about any perceived injustices from many decades or centuries ago. If the injustices happened more recently, there may be avenues you can explore via legal channels. A Google search might point you in the right direction.
Added: I don’t think any crime is depicted as glamorous, or a “lark”, nor do I think anyone “laughs” at victims of miscarriages of justice. Not sure how you came to the conclusion that they are/were. :-\
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Ruskie, I don't agree with you. Many people start family history research BECAUSE they suspect something is wrong or bad and it has dogged their family for some time.
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You seem to be quite intense on the subject of murders/criminals etc etc
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=863047.0
Many people start family history research BECAUSE they suspect something is wrong or bad and it has dogged their family for some time.
They will get very little info from the Criminal Registers which end 1892 and most detailed info will be from newspaper reports.
To discover that one of your ancestors was a criminal over 100 or more years ago is hardly life changing - even if he was a murderer or even if one of your ancestors was murdered. It's in the past & there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.
People find all kinds of unexpected things in their research but those with any sense do not brood over it or lose any sleep over it.
Reply 14 on your thread above is good advice
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Ruskie, I don't agree with you. Many people start family history research BECAUSE they suspect something is wrong or bad and it has dogged their family for some time.
Not sure I understand what you don’t agree with.
There are a multitude of reasons that people start researching their family history. I didn’t say anything to the contrary. ???
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Ruskie, I don't agree with you. Many people start family history research BECAUSE they suspect something is wrong or bad and it has dogged their family for some time.
I doubt many people start family history research for that reason, some no doubt will but compared to the bulk of family history researchers the numbers will be few.
Cheers
Guy
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In my own small way, I do FH research for others.
Nobody has asked for research because of something bad or wrong?
Once people have died, their records become public property.
And anyone can choose to research that person.
There is a program on BBC dealing with perceived "Miscarriages of Justice", using 2 Barristers who present their research findings to a judge.
Not all cases come to the conclusion that the petitioner wants.
The program was titled "Rough Justice" and ran from 1982 until 2007.
It led to the foundation of the Criminal Cases Review Commission.
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People start family history research for all sorts of reasons, one of those reasons is because they suspect something is wrong or something bad happened. This is a fact I'm not in need of your agreement.
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Newspapers are the best source for this kind of thing, in my experience. I have some criminals [nothing too spectacular or violent] and some victims; no known 'miscarriages of justice.
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I suspect that this just another of AngelJunctions posts thrown up to try and create controversy amongst rootschat members.
Look at his/her other posts - most quite contentious. I suggest we stop falling for them.
Pheno
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People start family history research for all sorts of reasons, one of those reasons is because they suspect something is wrong or something bad happened. This is a fact I'm not in need of your agreement.
If you're happy to share, which ancestor of yours is it that you feel has been wronged by historians/researchers? I'm curious.
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As already mentioned, no one is disagreeing with you AJ.
People start family history research for all sorts of reasons, one of those reasons is because they suspect something is wrong or something bad happened. This is a fact I'm not in need of your agreement.
Well why bother asking people for their input on a topic? Especially ones which you know people won’t agree with you. ::)
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I suspect that this just another of AngelJunctions posts thrown up to try and create controversy amongst rootschat members.
Look at his/her other posts - most quite contentious. I suggest we stop falling for them.
Pheno
I couldn't agree more!
Annie
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Me neither - and it's an opinion shared by many other members as well.
Given that AngelJunction only joined RC in May - she has posted quite a few controversial topics - but got very little support or agreement for them.
See my reply 33 on another of her posts for full list
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=863577.msg7333917#msg7333917
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The Old Bailey online site has court cases but there is no database of established miscarriages of justice and none of suspected miscarriages either. No wonder the establishment is laughing at us.
My London family was the victim of several "frames", anybody else discovered something in their family ?
It seems your experience is a 'secret' but you want others to tell of their discoveries ???
If you want to listen to genuine Miscarriages of Justice then scroll down here...
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ro8/
Annie
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Presumably someone connected in some way to the Ripper case.
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Many people start family history research BECAUSE they suspect something is wrong or bad and it has dogged their family for some time.
I doubt many people start family history research for that reason, some no doubt will but compared to the bulk of family history researchers the numbers will be few.
Absolutely & many are more likely to start family history research looking for connections to Royalty rather than 'because they suspect something is wrong or bad'.
Annie