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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Oxfordshire => Topic started by: raycarpenter on Monday 27 June 22 01:28 BST (UK)

Title: william carpenter of oxfordshire
Post by: raycarpenter on Monday 27 June 22 01:28 BST (UK)
hello
just wondering if someone could help me with my 8x great grandfather william carpenter the death record says he died in 1789 south leigh oxfordshire it says he was born 1689 but i doubt that other trees have 1711 ive tried for a few years to find his parents ive just seen some tree's that added his parents as simon carpenter 14 Mar 1683 Bampton, Oxfordshire, England and Rathiell Smyth Birth Abt 1683 • Cogges, Oxfordshire, England but i have no proof to find of this ive asked a few with no answers

thanks ray carpenter
Title: Re: william carpenter of oxfordshire
Post by: amondg on Monday 27 June 22 07:27 BST (UK)
Rule number 1 never ever trust an on line tree. Do your own research and verify, verify, verify.

Who are the children you believe to be his, BUT if you are using information on someone else tree,

start again with the last known correct facts you have. Perhaps your grandparents names.

Rootschatters will be glad to help

Title: Re: william carpenter of oxfordshire
Post by: Neale1961 on Monday 27 June 22 07:51 BST (UK)
I agree 100% with the comments by amondg.
The ancestry tree from which you have posted a clip appears to be without documentation or sources, and some quite obvious contradictions / errors.

Your starting point must be facts you know are correct because of supporting documents. Avoid looking at any public tree on Ancestry.
Title: Re: william carpenter of oxfordshire
Post by: casram on Monday 27 June 22 08:58 BST (UK)
Hi Ray
Simon Carpenter and Rachiell Smyth are my 7x great grandparents who married 29 March 1703 in Cogges. Simon was baptised on 14 March 1684 in Bampton  but I have never found Rachiell's baptism. She was buried in Bampton on 19th Sep 1720.

Simon and Rachiell certainly had a son William baptised in Bampton on 15 Jan 1711 but I have no other details for him. The problem is there are a great many Carpenters in  Bampton.
If you have a subscription for Ancestry they have the Bampton parish registers and it would be worth trying to track William through them

Hope this helps
Title: Re: william carpenter of oxfordshire
Post by: LizzieL on Monday 27 June 22 11:06 BST (UK)
FindMyPast has the will of Simon Carpenter snr of Bampton. Proved 17 June 1730.
He mentions that his son Simon Carpenter is his only living son. He has a daughter Mary who seems to have married a Richard Sawyer, they have children Mary Eliza, Richard and Sarah who are in Marcham, Berks. He also mentions another grandaughter Ann, child of his late son John. But I cannot see a reference to a son William
Title: Re: william carpenter of oxfordshire
Post by: LizzieL on Monday 27 June 22 11:19 BST (UK)
Maybe the will is that of the father of Simon (1683), and the death in 1729 on the  tree snippet is  not the death of Simon (1683), but actually of his father - also Simon. That might make more sense. Fits better with daughter Mary having four children.
Title: Re: william carpenter of oxfordshire
Post by: casram on Monday 27 June 22 12:18 BST (UK)
The problem is there are a large number of Simon Carpenters in Bampton. I have 11 in my direct line and I know there are others. It is difficult because they overlap. Simon and Rachiel had 4 children - Simeon, Hester, William and Rachel. I have not positively confirmed when this Simon died.

The Simon whose will you mention was was born in 1653 and was the father of Simon above born 1684.
Carolyn
Title: Re: william carpenter of oxfordshire
Post by: raycarpenter on Monday 27 June 22 19:08 BST (UK)
Thank you for all your answers difficult this one my 8x grandfather married mary lainchbury spelt a few different ways she is my 8x great grandmother he also married elizabeth hawkins his first wife i have all there kids on my tree he is my brick wall i cant get past thanks again

My tree on ancestry is raycarpenter829

Cheers
Title: Re: william carpenter of oxfordshire
Post by: amondg on Tuesday 28 June 22 01:49 BST (UK)
Looking at your tree. Children of Thomas and Jane.

The Sarah Carpenter who died/buried 27 June 1800 was 7 weeks old in the register entry.

Your Sarah was born 12 July 1799 almost a year earlier so this is not your Sarah's burial.

When I printed out the page, I think you meant to number the entries instead they show as ages confusing.

Title: Re: william carpenter of oxfordshire
Post by: amondg on Tuesday 28 June 22 02:07 BST (UK)
Death of John Carpenter born 1 August 1792 buried 28 January 1867 age 76 at South Leigh

Brother to William and son of Thomas and Jane

You have Whitney this is where his death was registered for civil registration.
Title: Re: william carpenter of oxfordshire
Post by: raycarpenter on Tuesday 28 June 22 02:25 BST (UK)
Thank you, on ancestry the death of william in 1789 on the form ancestry they say he died aged 100 ive zoomed the 100 in and to me it looks like 80 with the old fashoned hook they did with writing which would make him born around 1709 ish
Title: Re: william carpenter of oxfordshire
Post by: amondg on Tuesday 28 June 22 06:08 BST (UK)
In 1881 census William is living in Standlake with daughter Ann who married Edward Turner 21 April 1833. His age given as 95

He was buried in Standlake 24 June 1882 age 94 civil registration also has age 94.
Ref: Whitney June Quarter 1882 vol. 3a Page 442

Parish record
Next to the entry are the words 3rd oldest. I take that to mean in age who lived in the village.
Title: Re: william carpenter of oxfordshire
Post by: amondg on Tuesday 28 June 22 08:20 BST (UK)
Jane Carpenter dau. of William and Mary born 13 September 1827 married James Hayward 27 October 1851

You have her death 1855, but the Jane Hayward who died 1855 was 32 years old and buried at Witney St Mary 27 April her address being Burwell Farm. This is 4 years older than your Jane so I 'd question that.

Did Jane and James emigrate the same as Thomas, although I haven't checked it yet.
Title: Re: william carpenter of oxfordshire
Post by: amondg on Tuesday 28 June 22 09:38 BST (UK)
Michael Carpenter married Ann Barret 27 May 1833 at Eynsham witnesses are John Carpenter and Selina Carpenter his brother and sister.
She dies before 1838

Michael Carpenter widower married Elizabeth Greenway 23 September 1838 at Witney both of Curbside? Witney
Elizabeth was buried 16 April 1840 age 24 South Leigh, civil registration has age 25

1841 he is with brother Levi 20 and sister Hannah 20 and Richard Hore 20 in Eynsham. Michael is 25 ages were rounded in 1841

Michael Carpenter widower married Maria Cox 10 April 1842 at Witney (she was of Coggs) witness
Richard Hoare and Ann Brown.
Title: Re: william carpenter of oxfordshire
Post by: raycarpenter on Tuesday 28 June 22 15:13 BST (UK)
Thank you ,
Title: Re: william carpenter of oxfordshire
Post by: amondg on Tuesday 28 June 22 17:46 BST (UK)
Do you have access to Find My Past as there are articles about Levi Carpenter he died in prison.

Michael Carpenter several concerning transfer of alehouse. The last one being The Wagon and Horses.
After he died it went to his widow.

Death of Martha wife of Israel Carpenter.

Narrow it down by county
Title: Re: william carpenter of oxfordshire
Post by: raycarpenter on Tuesday 28 June 22 19:45 BST (UK)
Yes i have all stuff on levi there news paper clippings on him to
Thanks links below
Title: Re: william carpenter of oxfordshire
Post by: raycarpenter on Tuesday 28 June 22 23:33 BST (UK)
Michael Carpenter had the saddlers arms in 1871 to in south leigh
Title: Re: william carpenter of oxfordshire
Post by: amondg on Wednesday 29 June 22 06:04 BST (UK)
Misread your previous post re William Carpenter. It definitely looks like age 100 but if you look again it could be 80 years old burial 15 Feb 1789
Title: Re: william carpenter of oxfordshire
Post by: amondg on Wednesday 29 June 22 07:20 BST (UK)
If they followed traditional naming patterns and at the moment we believe Elizabeth Hawkins is William's first wife.
Then first daughter is Mary for her mother
First son for his father in their case David
Second son for the father William
---------
Elizabeth was buried 2 May 1740 South Leigh
He married Mary Lanchbery 18 December 1740 at Witney he was of South Leigh she was of Witney

Next son William first named one had died for him the father
Next daughter Rachel which if he his first wife had lived we would say this was for his mother .
Since he had remarried Rachel could be for her mother.
Then they have John, George, Ann and Betty.
Title: Re: william carpenter of oxfordshire
Post by: amondg on Wednesday 29 June 22 08:16 BST (UK)
When William Snr. married 2nd Mary Lanchbery it doesn't say he is a widower just of South Leigh.
annoying.

It got me to wonder if Elizabeth Hawkins was a widow when she married William 1736?

There are 2 John and Elizabeth Hakins/ Hawkins in South Leigh hope you can follow my idea.

John Hawkins & Elizabeth had Elizabeth 1693, Mary 1694, Ann 1696, John 1698, Hanah 1701, Richard 1705.
John and Elizabeth had Hannah 1729 bap 21 September

Is this the first John with a new wife named Elizabeth?
----
Lack of ages and clarification in the register concerning burials John buried 19 April 1730, Mary buried  12 May 1730 Elizabeth 11 September 1729.
--------
So are the burials of John snr. and his daughters Elizabeth and daughter Mary, or John snr. his wife and daughter Mary?

Is the Elizabeth Hawkins who married William Carpenter the widow of John Hawkins?

Alternate
There is an Elizabeth Hawkins bap Coggs 1703 daughter of William !!

Settlement reports, apprenticeships and a will or 2 would help a lot.
Title: Re: william carpenter of oxfordshire
Post by: raycarpenter on Friday 01 July 22 01:38 BST (UK)
thank you,