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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Dark Star 2407 on Saturday 25 June 22 07:59 BST (UK)
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Hi all
I;m trying to find any information about my 4G Great grandmother, Sarah ORWIN. All I have so far is she was married (poss living with) a William Parker (1790-1858) and they are buried together at Jesmond Cemetery, Newcastle Upon-Tyne.
They had 3 children I know about (last one born 1826) and she was dead by 1841 census (certainly not on the 1841 census and William is a widower on the 1851.
I have found a birth record for a Sarah from 1779 but this is unlikely I would feel given the dates of birth of their 3 children (1823-27) Equally, I have found a BMD death record for a Sarah Orwin dated 1836 which would fit but suggests they weren't married. Waiting on a copy of that as we speak.
Thanks for any help
Phil
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I note on Ancestry a member has placed a number of documents about a
William Parker born about 1790 Death 3 May 1858.
And this online.
https://nelh.net/blue-plaque-unveiled-to-william-parker-ouseburn-chartist
Is this the person you refer?
Colin
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Thanks Colin
Indeed this is him. Its more his wife I'm looking for now. Still, I appear to have a murderer in the family now
Cheers
Phil :>)
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I was not to sure as there is no mention anywhere that I can find of Sarah.
Colin
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Another family member sent me details of their (Wm and Sarah's) gravestone. But, as you say there's little trace of Sarah herself. I'm hoping the Jesmond graveyard will send me more details about the stone and I've found a couple of potential birth and death records. Its linking them to William is the issue.
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https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-chronicle-south-tyneside-and-durham/20210812/281840056730957
In the above article it mentions that William was married at St Mary's Church, Gateshead in 1821, and 20 years later was widowed with 3 daughters. It also says that he served in the army in India in 1811.
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Oh Terri, that's excellent , many thanks. I got a lot of the newspaper reports from that time reporting Williams speeches and I had a few modern reports regarding the plaque and Mike Greatbatch's research but not this one .
Once more down the rabbit hole :>)
Phil
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Grrr.
Found the 1821 church record for William but the bride is a different name. Not saying this is not my William , need to wait on the cemetery hopefully telling me the name of the wife on Williams gravestone.
Hey Ho
Phil
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....the dates of birth of their 3 children (1823-27)
Who are these children?
The William PARKER who lived in Lime Street had Mary, Isabella and Sarah. It seems likely that he married Isabella POTTS in 1821 at St Mary's, Gateshead. Where are you getting the name 'Sarah ORWIN'?
Debra :)
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Hi Debra
When I first put this up I had been told by a descendant of William that he and Sarah were buried together at Jesmond cemetery. After that I was given the link to the Parker-Potts wedding which I hadn't been able to find . I agree that now it seems more likely that Isabella is his wife. I'm still waiting on the cemetery to confirm the gravestone details.
Cheers
Phil :>)
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1841 Mary Parker is not born in Northumberland.
Bapts;
St Mary, Gateshead, Durham
RALPH POTTS Parker 09 Mar 1822, buried 24 Mar 1822 sage 14 days
MARY Parker 16 Nov 1823*****
Parents as WILLIAM/ISABELLA, Father a Gardener, abode Gateshead
(FreeREG)
1821 Marriage is there also, it implies William could write as Isabella signs X
Its appears to me that Daug Sarah married a James ORWIN 1869
1871 Census
James Orwin 30 Head
Sarah Orwin 38 Wife
William Orwin 8 Son
Isabella Orwin 5 Daughter
Michael Orwin 27 Lodger
Trish :)
EDIT;
SARAH Parker bapt 1 Jan 1829 Wallsend, Northumberland
Birth 17 Oct 1827***
Parents WILLIAM/ISABELLA nee Potts
(F/S.Org)
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It is possible Sarah lied on her bapt of Son WILLIAM Bapt 18 Oct 1863
Parents as WILLIAM/SARAH, Father a Soldier
This may be why Trees are confused?
She then bapts as a singlewoman;
ISABELLA 10 Jul 1866, abode Ouse Burn
This would be William/Sarah Orwin who appear in the 1871 Census with James/Sarah Orwin
1891 we have;
James Orwin 44 Head
Isabella Orwin 24 Daughter
John Parker 8 Grandson
John is the Son of William Parker/Jane Poulton married 1882
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Hi Trish
Thanks for all that. It looks like the Parker / Orwin gravestone might be father / daughter perhaps. Thanks for the Potts info, I'd found the Gateshead marriage details earlier today. I'm hoping that Jesmond cemetery will get back to me next week to give more info on the stone
Good stuff, many thanks
Phil
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Good luck Phil.
Let us know how you get on with the cemetery info.
Trish :)
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Hi trish
Thanks for all your help. I found a BMD entry for an Isabella Parker who died 1837 in Newcastle, could well be mine. Waiting on the certificate as we speak. Will post when I get that result as well as when I hear from Jesmond
Cheers
Phil
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Ah well, Wasn't my Isabella Parker and Jesmond haven't got back to me. Back to the blackboard.
Phil
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So, Jesmond cemetery got back, turns out there isn't a gravestone, just a burial plot, no other info. Dead end for now
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Just to confuse things, there is a news article from December 1852 which mentions Isabella and James Parker of Lime Street, and she is very much alive at that point. Is she then a second wife if James was a widower in the 1851 census? Or perhaps two sets of Isabella/James on Lime Street? ???
Newcastle Guardian and Tyne Mercury 11 December 1852
EDIT never mind..... you need a William, not a James!
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In reply #5, TerriG mentions an article that stated William was widowed 20 years after his marriage. There is an Isabella Parker that died in 1841 that might be worth looking at, or leaving "on the back burner" to check out when you get desperate!
Her death does not appear (that I could find) on FreeBMD, Anc, or FindMyPast civil death records, but it does at the GRO. And if it is her, she was separated from William, whether for health or other reasons, as her abode is given as Frederick Street, Bishop Wearmouth. She died 01 July 1841, so mere weeks after the census, and yet there is no Isabella Parker on that street. There are Isabella Parkers in the area, which appear to be married, but the '41 doesn't give relationships, and a Hill Parker with (assuming) his wife on Frederick St. Most of the Isabella's I tracked on to 1851, but not all, but they would have had to move to Frederick St., then died, in the time frame between 06 Jun (census day) to 01 Jul, date of death.
One street over, on John Street there are is an older William Potts, but that could mean nothing.
I am wondering if she was ill and staying with/near some relatives, then passed away.
Anyways, the newspaper mention states Mrs., so we know she was a married woman:
Newcastle Courant 09 July 1841
Deaths (Bishop Wearmouth)
In Frederick St., on the 1st inst., aged 44, Mrs Isabella Parker.
The GRO has a match for a 44 yr old:
PARKER, ISABELLA 44
GRO Reference: 1841 S Quarter in SUNDERLAND UNION Volume 24 Page 171
The Durham Online Parish has the burial record; I don't know if it is just a full index or the actual image, and they charge £1.50
https://www.durhamrecordsonline.com/
FindmyPast also has the burial index. Both of them show Frederick St, and age 44, so it is the one from the newspaper.
The biggest problem is that the burial and death record may not hold any information that helps connect her to your Isabella, even if she is your Isabella. If she died in hospital, the informant is probably a staff member.
The age and timing of this death fits well, but location... not so much, although that could explain why they aren't buried together.
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Wow bbart, many thanks for all that detective work, I'm very appreciative indeed.
I'll certainly be looking into this a bit more.
I had a look at the Durham site, didn't give a lot more info than you mentioned (buried 5 july 1851), I'm going to get the GRO record, thanks for the reference there.
I found a couple more Isabella Parkers on the Durham site but only one was feasible by age and she appears to be married to someone else on the 1841 census (lives at a different address as well) so the death cert might be for mine
I'll keep you posted, again many thanks for the help
Phil
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Ah well, that didn't work. The Isabella Parker at Bishop Wearmouth was a James Parker, a ship owner. More digging ahead :>)
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Ah well, that didn't work. The Isabella Parker at Bishop Wearmouth was a James Parker, a ship owner. More digging ahead :>)
Well, darn it! I was so hoping it would solve the mystery.
Back to the drawing board we go!
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Ah well, that didn't work. The Isabella Parker at Bishop Wearmouth was a James Parker, a ship owner. More digging ahead :>)
Well, darn it! I was so hoping it would solve the mystery.
Yup. Also just realised I missed a line out of that message, ... should read that she was "the wife of: James Parker.
Thanks again for your help and advice
phil
Back to the drawing board we go!
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SARAH Parker bapt 1 Jan 1829 Wallsend, Northumberland
Birth 17 Oct 1827***
Parents WILLIAM/ISABELLA nee Potts
(F/S.Org)
The above was part of Reply #10 from Trish.
Have you actually seen the image, or just the transcript?
On the actual image, the person who baptized Sarah also noted where each parent was born, and there are witness names that might help.
If you've seen it, I'm still posting in case it helps someone else hunting!
Record set England & Wales Non-Conformist Births And Baptisms
Denomination United Secession
Sarah the daughter of William Parker iron worker and Isabella Potts his wife. was
born October 17th 1828 at West House in the Parish of All Saints and county of Northumberland and was baptised January 1st 1829 by me, Robert Vice (?)
The father of this child was born at Colton in the Parish of ?? and in the North Riding of Yorkshire.
The mother of the above mentioned child was born at Forth Bank in the Parish of Saint Johns, Newcastle upon Tyne.
Witnesses: William Pickering, Ann Pickering, Mary Robinson.
The following is a clip of the Parish William was born in. I just can't make it out.
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I hadn't seen this particular section and haven't seen the original.
The problem here however is my William Parker, on the 1851 census states he was born in Wandsworth, Surrey.
He was a local voice in Charterist politics of the time and multiple newspaper reports describe him as living in Lime Street, Newcastle which both the 51 census refers too as well as the marriage cert of his daughter.
Do you know where the actual image was accessed?
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It's at FindMyPast. If the birth place is wrong, at least that rules a few census' out!
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Thanks again bbart. I had a look at the original. It's tantalisingly close to what I want it to be LOL but all the 1851census and newspaper reports swing it the other way.
I think the William in the FindMyPast record was born in the parish Thirsk which is in the North Riding of Yorkshire but I can't yet make out the actual place, it might refer to Carlton Miniott which was part of Thirsk parish