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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: MrsS2012 on Friday 24 June 22 15:13 BST (UK)

Title: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: MrsS2012 on Friday 24 June 22 15:13 BST (UK)
I’m currently researching the Cope family who mainly resided around the Dagenham, Essex area.
I’ve got back to a William Cope and Sarah White who were married in Wanstead, Essex in 1818. Cope has been transcribed as Coope. Not sure if this is a transcription error or the name was actually Coope.. I only have the transcript to go on.
William Cope according to census records was born around 1799 in Dagenham.
I’ve found a possible baptism record for him, a John William Cope (again transcribed as  Coope) for 1803 also in Wanstead with his parents recorded as John and Anna Maria.
Now I’m stuck. I haven’t been able to find any mariage record for a John and Anna Maria and can’t find them on any later census records. Of course they both may have died before 1841.
Other trees on ancestry have William’s parents as Henry and Mary so I don’t know if I have the right information?
Not sure where to go from here to prove what info is correct?
Any tips welcomed!
Title: Re: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 24 June 22 15:22 BST (UK)
If it is John William (1803) who married Sarah White as William Cope in 1818 he would have been very young when he married
Title: Re: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: familydar on Friday 24 June 22 15:32 BST (UK)
The PR clearly says William COOPE & Sarah WHITE.  Marriage with consent of parents.  Witnesses Henry WHITE & Sarah COOPE.  All parties marked (they didn't sign).

Have you discounted the 1792 Woodford bap (William COPE, transcript on FindMyPast)?

Jane :-)
Title: Re: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 24 June 22 16:19 BST (UK)
If he is the William Cope in Dagenham in 1841 / 51 then 1851 has his birthplace as Barking.  Year of birth is c1799
Title: Re: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: MrsS2012 on Friday 24 June 22 16:30 BST (UK)
Thank you for the replies everyone. Yes he would have been young which was why I questioned my info.. BUT the census does say around 1799 for a birth and the Wanstead baptism was the only one that seemed to fit.
I think I did see the Woodford one too but discounted it as it was too early. Of course I’m aware that year of births on census records aren’t always accurate so discounting it may have been a mistake?
Title: Re: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 24 June 22 16:32 BST (UK)
Where and when did he die, I see he was widowed in 1851 census
Title: Re: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: MrsS2012 on Friday 24 June 22 16:46 BST (UK)
According to someone else’s tree on ancestry he died in 1883 in Ongar, but I’m yet to prove this fact. Sarah died in 1846. That I’m quite sure I’d due to his widowed status in 1851
Title: Re: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: familydar on Friday 24 June 22 16:56 BST (UK)
And Sarah was 50 when she died, slightly older than 1841 census and 1818 marriage suggests, might William have been older too?  I know 1795/6 is still just about "in range" for the 1841 age of 40, but husband and wife both enumerated as 40. There again, if she was indeed 50 when she died, she was popping out sprogs fairly late in life.

Glad it's not my conundrum!

Jane :-)
Title: Re: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: softly softly on Friday 24 June 22 17:11 BST (UK)
Think you should disregard the death of a William Cope in 1883 Ongar. He appears with wife Mary in 1881 census in Lambourne Essex with a pob as Lambourne. He also appears in 1851 census with Mary with a pob as Lambourne.
The 1883 death in Ongar covers Lambourne.

John
Title: Re: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 24 June 22 17:42 BST (UK)
There is a death registration Romford reg district in March qtr 1869 for a William Cope age 74  :-\
Title: Re: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: Annette7 on Friday 24 June 22 18:58 BST (UK)
There is a death registration Romford reg district in March qtr 1869 for a William Cope age 74  :-\

Doesn't come up on Ancestry for some reason but is on FindMyPast and GRO.   It's actually September quarter not March.

Was buried 11/7/1869 Dagenham so sounds like it's him.

Annette

 
Title: Re: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 24 June 22 19:13 BST (UK)
Not sure if this is a transcription error or the name was actually Coope.. I only have the transcript to go on.

Image of marriage register is free on FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-66B9-HSX

They have the BT as well
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-YSLN-ZGK
Title: Re: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: Annette7 on Friday 24 June 22 19:47 BST (UK)
I think his parents were probably a Henry and Mary too but don't think Mary's surname was Thick as shown on the various trees.   That marriage took place in London and trees show she died St. Pancras in 1840 when the Cope family were fully ensconced in Essex!!

Between 1798 and 1818 a Henry and Mary had children baptised Romford, Dagenham and Barking and in 1841 Henry is in Barking (no wife with him) and living with him are his married daughter Maria (Flack) and her family.   Henry Cope bc.1768 buried 21/6/1846 Gt. Ilford.   Henry and Mary had a dau. Phoebe Ann bp.1804 Dagenham (not a common name for the time) and I note that William and Sarah named 2 of their daughters Maria and Phoebe.

Annette   
Title: Re: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: MrsS2012 on Friday 24 June 22 20:02 BST (UK)
Fantastic advice everyone… and yes the Ongar death didn’t make sense to me either.
Ok I’ll get back onto this tomorrow with fresh ideas!
Not that familiar with family search so I’ll check that out thank you so much. Still fairly new to all this, only been doing it full time for the past year so much to learn!
Title: Re: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 24 June 22 20:04 BST (UK)
Baptisms of children of William and Sarah Cope at Barking
10 Dec 1820, Thomas
Father a Labourer
Abode Barkingside
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6Q9S-15B

19 May 1922
Anne
Father a Labourer
Abode Green Lane
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6Q9S-V75

15 Feb 1824
George
Father a Labourer
Abode Barkingside
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6Q93-QHZ

Plenty more follow in Barking and Dagenham!
Title: Re: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 24 June 22 20:04 BST (UK)
Who is Sarah Coope, the marriage witness?
Title: Re: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 24 June 22 20:29 BST (UK)
William Cope died in an accident :(
Broke his neck.
Inquest.
Newspaper reports
Title: Re: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: MrsS2012 on Friday 24 June 22 21:21 BST (UK)
William Cope died in an accident :(
Broke his neck.
Inquest.
Newspaper reports

Oh my GOD this is gold! Horrible for poor William but so interesting… the lady I’m doing this for is going to be so interested!
Title: Re: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: MrsS2012 on Friday 24 June 22 21:23 BST (UK)
Will double check on the other things you’ve posted when I start my research again in the morning
Title: Re: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: jonwarrn on Saturday 25 June 22 08:47 BST (UK)
Who is Sarah Coope, the marriage witness?

Possible :-\
Baptism at Lambourne, Essex, 5 Jan 1794
Sarah Cope, daughter of Henry and Mary

Marriage, 13 Sep 1793, Navestock
Henry Cope + Mary Laurance

William Cope's son Henry married Caroline Bennett, 5 July 1839, Chapelry of Great Ilford
Henry was a minor. Residence for both Chadwell.
BT
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-YSLS-MH8

Marriage of Henry's daughter Maria to William Flack (as mentioned by Annette) is on image 86. Residence for both Barking Side.
Title: Re: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: MrsS2012 on Saturday 25 June 22 10:55 BST (UK)


Image of marriage register is free on FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-66B9-HSX

They have the BT as well
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-YSLN-ZGK
[/quote]

Thank you for this, do you mean the baptism for William? When I click the link it takes me to the marriage record?
Looking at the existing trees on ancestry where Henry and Mary are named as William's parents.. the baptism records attached are completely out date wise.. so I don't think the info is correct.
The Wanstead baptism fits as he married in Wanstead and both are spelled Coope I believe.. but now looking at the Woodford baptism I don't know if that could also be a possibility?
That would mean his parents were Benjamin and Dorothy??
So confused ???
Title: Re: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: jonwarrn on Saturday 25 June 22 13:04 BST (UK)
Hi
Yes, those two are the marriage in 1818, the parish register and the copy made of it later and sent to the Bishop.
Henry and Mary are appealing as William's parents, but no baptism has been found :(
He could come in between the baptisms of Sarah and Henry, so around 1796. Kind of fits with his age on death.
But no proof so far.

I haven't looked into the Wanstead one yet.
Title: Re: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: jonwarrn on Saturday 25 June 22 13:10 BST (UK)
Has William been found in 1861?
Title: Re: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: MrsS2012 on Saturday 25 June 22 13:14 BST (UK)
Ahh I see, yes Henry and Mary would certainly fit especially when you consider the names of their other children (thank you for that info Annette) but reluctant to put this as fact unless I can prove it, especially as I'm doing this tree for someone else!
And no I couldn't find William in 1861, I was hoping he would turn up as I researched the rest of the Cope line as they all seem to live with and near eachother
Title: Re: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: jonwarrn on Saturday 25 June 22 13:47 BST (UK)
Baptism of John William Coope in Wanstead in April 1803.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-66B9-PHF
Title: Re: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: MrsS2012 on Saturday 25 June 22 13:52 BST (UK)
Baptism of John William Coope in Wanstead in April 1803.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-66B9-PHF
That's the one! I found the transcript on FindMyPast. Yes I'm wondering if this is the correct record as it fits with the surname spelling and area. The lady I am doing this for was very interested to know if the surname was originally Coope and changed to Cope.
Of course I'm not entirely sure this is the right baptism?
Title: Re: Hit a brick wall.. where to go from here?
Post by: jonwarrn on Saturday 25 June 22 17:14 BST (UK)
I think the problem is his age, as you mentioned. There is a birth date given. He would have been only fifteen when he married.