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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: ali. on Thursday 23 June 22 16:07 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
Can anyone help identifying the uniform/badges found on these soldiers? What regiment might they have belonged to? One of them is my great grandfather, and he served in Egypt during the Second World War (where this photo was taken). Anything else is unknown. He was from Manchester, but it might not help.
I'm going to start the long process of getting his service record, but maybe you can help me sooner!
Thanks so much,
Ali
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Hi,
As nobody has responded yet, can I just comment on the photo ?
Nearly all seem to be wearing the same cap badge, which appears to be a thin upright one which I don't recognise. Only one officer but I can't make out his cap badge at all. Many, but not all, of the group are wearing dark coloured flashes on their shoulder tags. This might denote an officer cadet but is not something I have seen before. Then there is the corporal in the dark uniform and his hat (?) at an unusually rakish angle on the far left of the group - is he perhaps from Allied forces, Free French or similar?
I know I'm not being particularly helpful here but might perhaps provoke a few responses to help solve the problem.
Maec
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Looking at it again, I don't think it was taken in Egypt. Look at the forested hills in the right-hand background.
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Yeah it’s a bit confusing isn’t it! As far as I’m aware the only place he served is Egypt, though I am going to request his service record so I should be able to find out for sure, though it could take months. There was one possible record that could be him serving in British Palestine from around 1945-1948, but again this is just speculation.
They do seem to be wearing a hot-weather uniform (the name escapes me) but any info beyond that is lost on me lol. Thank you so much for trying to figure it out. I massively appreciate your input.
Ali
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Parts of Egypt do have wooded hills, especially along the coast and around Alexandria so I don't think that factor alone rules Egypt out. But more to the point, after May 1943 when the German and Italian forces in North Africa surrendered, the Eighth Army took part in the Italian campaign, so this photo could also have been taken in Italy (which definitely has wooded hills!), without contradicting the story that Ali's great grandfather served in Egypt.
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Parts of Egypt do have wooded hills, especially along the coast and around Alexandria so I don't think that factor alone rules Egypt out. But more to the point, after May 1943 when the German and Italian forces in North Africa surrendered, the Eighth Army took part in the Italian campaign, so this photo could also have been taken in Italy (which definitely has wooded hills!), without contradicting the story that Ali's great grandfather served in Egypt.
That definitely could be true, as the only story I have of his time in the military was a necklace given to him by an Italian soldier, so he definitely had contact with the Italians at some point! You could be onto something.
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And Ali, in answer to your earlier question, the pattern of uniform is KD - Khaki Drill. In this case it's the pale tan version which was worn in the Western desert in WW2.
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It is odd that they are all in KD apart from the corporal on the left hand side who is in a much warmer dress and puttees/gaiters as well. He is the only one with his legs crossed, strictly a no no in formal photographs and what would then have been known as an effiminate pose to put it politely.
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It is odd that they are all in KD apart from the corporal on the left hand side who is in a much warmer dress and puttees/gaiters as well. He is the only one with his legs crossed, strictly a no no in formal photographs and what would then have been known as an effiminate pose to put it politely.
I think MaecW was onto something when he suggested this person might have been attached from another unit or even another nation (I think Polish is more likely than Free French). The anomaly is that the photograph appears to show a platoon or troop sized sub-unit (1 Officer and 27 other ranks) and therefore would be unlikely to have any attachments from outside the unit.
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Didn’t expect it to be such an unusual photograph. Shame I don’t have any better quality photos of the uniform, just this one. Thanks so much to everyone trying to help & figure this out!
Ali
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It's the sort of photo that got taken at training events. A class photo perhaps.
Might the cap badge be RAOC?
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Ali,
The soldier on the far left of the middle row is definitely wearing the famous Battleaxe insignia of the British 78th Infantry Division, which served in the North African and Italian campaigns and ended up in Austria at the war's end.
All the troops are wearing a small flaming grenade in their (rather unflattering) general service caps which identifies them as Gunners in the Royal Artillery - the RA didn't wear their usual Wheeled Gun badge in this particular type of headdress.
Given how smart and relaxed they look, the fair few medal ribbons being worn and the mountain background I'd take an educated guess that the photo was taken in either northern Italy or Austria after hostilities had ceased.
Steve
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Ali,
The soldier on the far left of the middle row is definitely wearing the famous Battleaxe insignia of the British 78th Infantry Division, which served in the North African and Italian campaigns and ended up in Austria at the war's end.
All the troops are wearing a small flaming grenade in their (rather unflattering) general service caps which identifies them as Gunners in the Royal Artillery - the RA didn't wear their usual Wheeled Gun badge in this particular type of headdress.
Given how smart and relaxed they look, the fair few medal ribbons being worn and the mountain background I'd take an educated guess that the photo was taken in either northern Italy or Austria after hostilities had ceased.
Steve
Thank you so much Steve, I think you’ve got it! I’ll do some digging into the 78th Infantry Division & the RA at the time. Can’t thank you enough.
Ali
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Can you give us your great grandfather's name? If he was Royal Artillery there may be a record of his attestation and/or a tracer card.
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Can you give us your great grandfather's name? If he was Royal Artillery there may be a record of his attestation and/or a tracer card.
His name was Wallace Broomhead, born 9 Oct 1907 in Manchester.
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Not seeing anything for him in the RA attestations or tracer cards
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Thought i'd give an update, I received his record a while back and he was absolutely a member of the 78th Infantry Division, 64th Anti-Tank Regiment from Sept 1944 until the end of the war. You were bang on! Thank you so much again for your help.
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Thanks for the update Ali. My Dad was in the same campaigns. I remember seeing a letter type-written on his demob, signed by commanding officer, detailing all their regiments' accomplishments. Unfortunately lost now when Mum moved. Does anyone know if museums keep this sort of thing ?
All I've got is a paperback entitled 'Monte Casino' that was his.
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I'm glad to hear your query has been solved.
As a matter of general interest can anybody identify the uniform of the corporal in the dark uniform with his hat (?) at an unusually rakish angle, and his legs crossed, on the far left of the group. He may be from Allied forces, Free French or similar, but I've been unable to find any similar uniform ?
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Thanks for the update Ali. My Dad was in the same campaigns. I remember seeing a letter type-written on his demob, signed by commanding officer, detailing all their regiments' accomplishments. Unfortunately lost now when Mum moved. Does anyone know if museums keep this sort of thing ?
All I've got is a paperback entitled 'Monte Casino' that was his.
That's great to know your dad was in the same campaigns! I have no idea, but I would imagine some war museums or private collectors would definitely keep hold of things like that. I hope you can find some version of it somewhere!
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I'm glad to hear your query has been solved.
As a matter of general interest can anybody identify the uniform of the corporal in the dark uniform with his hat (?) at an unusually rakish angle, and his legs crossed, on the far left of the group. He may be from Allied forces, Free French or similar, but I've been unable to find any similar uniform ?
It looks like the standard khaki battledress worn by the British Army in Europe. Perhaps he is a new arrival and has not been issued his tropical kit yet. His medal ribbon on its own is probably an African Star.