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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Norfolk => Topic started by: jamie300 on Saturday 18 June 22 17:05 BST (UK)
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This is I believe Edward Slipper Gaff, possibly with one of his daughters. It is simply labelled "Cromer 1920".
I've had a look on maps of the time, and then on Google, and I reckon this is highly likely to be 19 Chesterfield Cottages, Cromer.
The problem is that Edward Slipper Gaff lived in London for most of his life, in 1911, at his marriage in 1919, in 1929 on the electoral register etc... So what was he doing in Cromer? Maybe on holiday but why is he wearing his work clothes (he was a butcher)? He does have family from Norfolk but none I am aware of in Cromer.
Who lived at 19 Chesterfield Cottages in Cromer in 1920? I tried searching using the findmypast free search for the 1921 census but none of the Chesterfield Cottages addresses showed up.
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why is he wearing his work clothes (he was a butcher)?
Or is it a raincoat?
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There was a Ernest Edward Gaff, b 1895, living very close to Cromer on the 1921 census
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Why is it "highly likely" to have been 19 Chesterfield Cottages? Have you seen a photo of Chesterfield Cottages & identified it from the design?
If not - how have you arrived at the address?
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1911 census has 1 Chesterfield Cotts, West Street,Cromer
Free search of 1921 census for 19 West Street, Cromer has this
Rose Amis 1884
Violet Beatrice Amis 1901
Gerald Fredrick Amis 1904 all born Norfolk
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Why is it "highly likely" to have been 19 Chesterfield Cottages? Have you seen a photo of Chesterfield Cottages & identified it from the design?
If not - how have you arrived at the address?
Cromer was quite a bit smaller in the 1920s than now, so there's aren't many possible streets of 19+ houses. I looked around on Google Streetview and most are either grander or else built entirely in red brick. I haven't found a picture of no.19 but you can see most of the rest of the terrace on Streetview and I also found sale/rental adverts for other numbers. The details such the single row of red bricks below the second story windows and the arrangement of bricks around the doors all match up.
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1911 census has 1 Chesterfield Cotts, West Street,Cromer
Free search of 1921 census for 19 West Street, Cromer has this
Rose Amis 1884
Violet Beatrice Amis 1901
Gerald Fredrick Amis 1904 all born Norfolk
Thanks for looking this up. I did notice that Chesterfield Cottages are sometimes listed as being on West Street, however West Street continues into the town centre towards Garden Street and definitely has its own No.19 at the opposite end of it from Chesterfield Cottages.
If you subscribe to findmypast to view the 1921 census, do you get access to scans of the original returns that you can browse through, or is it just transcriptions? I'd be happy to browse through all of Cromer tbh, maybe Chesterfield Cottages is scribbled down as something else.
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Well I think I've got it. Browsing around the 1911 census scans and what free searches I can do for the 1921 on findmypast, I've found these address written variously as e.g. "4 Chesterfield Cottages, North Row, Cromer" and "No 12 North Row, Chesterfield, Cromer" and "15 North Row, West Street, Cromer"
So I bought the 1921 record for 19, North Row, Cromer. Which I believe is Chesterfield Cottages. Living there are widow Elizabeth Smith and son Frederick and lodger George Neale. No connection to Edward Slipper Gaff or the Gaff family that I know of, but maybe one can be found.
I'm 98% sure that the man pictured in my OP is Edward Slipper Gaff but if I can find a link to this address I'll know for sure.
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As you have discovered, it appears that Chesterfield Cottages was known formally as (or as part of) North Row back then.
James John Dennis married in 1921 and gave his address as 1 Chesterfield Cottages. In the electoral rolls his address is 1 North Row.
In the 1911 census there are at least three households (Blogg at 17, and Allen at 4 and 10) who gave addresses in Chesterfield Cottages but whose census returns were addressed to them in North Row.
In the 1920 and 1921 electoral rolls, Elizabeth Smith is at 19.
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why is he wearing his work clothes (he was a butcher)?
Or is it a raincoat?
You think so? I thought it looked more like work overalls, especially with the pockets and the fact it looks white.
Butchers seemed to wear such coats when they weren't wearing aprons:
https://flashbak.com/meat-is-beautiful-art-of-the-butchers-shop-window-1924-1970-56323/
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As you have discovered, it appears that Chesterfield Cottages was known formally as (or as part of) North Row back then.
James John Dennis married in 1921 and gave his address as 1 Chesterfield Cottages. In the electoral rolls his address is 1 North Row.
In the 1911 census there are at least three households (Blogg at 17, and Allen at 4 and 10) who gave addresses in Chesterfield Cottages but whose census returns were addressed to them in North Row.
In the 1920 and 1921 electoral rolls, Elizabeth Smith is at 19.
Thanks. I didn't think to look for alternate street names at first, because it's called "Chesterfield Cottages" now but also on the 1886 OS Map, and all maps I looked at in-between.
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The picture you have posted appears to me as a door set in a wall - not the front of a house. If you Streetview check the wall that runs from No 1 Chesterfield Cottages off Cabbell Road (behind the newly built Chesterfield Hall) and a second check from the Beach Road end there appear to be no doors set in the wall.
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The picture you have posted appears to me as a door set in a wall - not the front of a house. If you Streetview check the wall that runs from No 1 Chesterfield Cottages off Cabbell Road (behind the newly built Chesterfield Hall) and a second check from the Beach Road end there appear to be no doors set in the wall.
I don't think it's a wall, what you see at the top right is the bottom of the first floor window, not the top of the wall.
Compare with the front and rear of No.10 here: https://www.lastminute-cottages.co.uk/properties/united-kingdom/england/norfolk/north-norfolk-district/cromer/inviting-cromer-cottage-s71063
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Have you compared the no. of bricks in the bottom row over the door of the picture posted against the no. of bricks in any of the images available for Chesterfield Cottages on Streetview or for sale?
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Have you compared the no. of bricks in the bottom row over the door of the picture posted against the no. of bricks in any of the images available for Chesterfield Cottages on Streetview or for sale?
Unfortunately it's difficult because 1) many cottages, including no.19 now have porch extensions, 2) the cottages are on a gradient so the number of stones between doors and windows varies as you go down the row, and 3) the builders alternated between neat rows of flint stones, and a random placement, seemingly based on which side they got out of bed each morning (visible on streetview on the side elevation of no.20)
This is best view of 19 I can find, although the door pictured in 1920 could easily have been the door on the north side of the property rather than this one:
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double post
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A feature of the cottages that can be viewed is that the brickwork over both door or downstairs window is a single vertical brick followed by two half bricks to form the vertical. The brickwork in the posted picture is quite, quite different.
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Ernest Edward Gaff (mentioned earlier) married Florence Agnes Rose in 1922. She lived at 14 North Row, Cromer. Just throwing that in!
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A feature of the cottages that can be viewed is that the brickwork over both door or downstairs window is a single vertical brick followed by two half bricks to form the vertical. The brickwork in the posted picture is quite, quite different.
Good point, although it wouldn't surprise me if some were in a different style. I suppose I could ask to have a look if I can visit Cromer, but I'm pretty sure both front and rear walls on the ground floor are now internal and have been plastered over.
I won't stop looking for alternate locations. I did consider that in writing "Cromer" the author may have meant "near Cromer", but I don't think any of the villages in the area are large enough to support a row of 19+ Victorian-era houses. Villages like Roughton were basically tiny hamlets in the 1920s with just a handful of dwellings.
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Ernest Edward Gaff (mentioned earlier) married Florence Agnes Rose in 1922. She lived at 14 North Row, Cromer. Just throwing that in!
Thanks, I'd not heard of Ernest before this thread but will take a dive into that now!
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There was a Ernest Edward Gaff, b 1895, living very close to Cromer on the 1921 census
Thanks Kloumann for this too. I've just discovered Ernest Edward Gaff b1895 was son of Esau Gaff b1856 of Booton. Esau's older brother George Herbert Gaff b1847 at Reepham was Edward Slipper Gaff's father.
The fact that Edward's cousin's soon-to-be wife was living at No.14 certainly points to this No.19 in the picture being Chesterfield Cottages, and if so that would make it highly improbable that the man is anyone other than Edward, given everything else I know.
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Ernest Edward Gaff (mentioned earlier) married Florence Agnes Rose in 1922. She lived at 14 North Row, Cromer. Just throwing that in!
Good spot!
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Villages like Roughton were basically tiny hamlets in the 1920s with just a handful of dwellings.
Wasn't there a Gaff's Farm at Roughton?
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Also Gaffs at Runton?