RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: Bee on Saturday 04 June 22 18:58 BST (UK)
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While searching for a marriage I spotted this, never seen that before.
The column for the father's name said "Mother, then her name", the occupation column said "Singlewoman"
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Was that in Mirfield, by any chance? It's the only place that I have seen that done.
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Sproatley. East Yorkshire.
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Apologies - I'm missing something somewhere!!
The column for the father's name said "Mother, then her name", the occupation column said "Singlewoman"
Would you be good enough to elaborate?
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Apologies - I'm missing something somewhere!!
The column for the father's name said "Mother, then her name", the occupation column said "Singlewoman"
Would you be good enough to elaborate?
In the 8th column were you would expect to see the name of the father of the bride or groom, it says Mother Mary Jane Smith, and in the final column for rank or profession it say "singlewoman"
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I think Bee is talking about a marriage record like this one from Mirfield:
20 July 1838 Joseph Richardson f/a bachelor waterman Lee Green John Richardson waterman
Elizabeth Tyne f/a spinster - Lee Green Mary Tyne singlewoman
There are one or two others in this register where the 'father's name' box has eg: Joseph Brook & Betty Ellis singlewoman.
After this had been going on for a couple of years I think someone told them to stop.
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These do crop up in parish marriage registers occasionally - I've seen quite a few examples, and would have been at the discretion of the vicar.
The father's details aren't part of the information that is legally required to be included on the register, so it isn't a problem .
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Many thanks, never seen that before.
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Normally its put when a father is decease when the child was young being brought up by the mother or if the groom or bride was born illegitimate with no known fathers name and in some rare occasions the vicar may have been at the church/parish when he participated in the baptism of said child (now groom or bride) . The vicar may have remembered the bride or groom as child and knew the child as it grew up without a father in a small village. Also you say this mother on the marriage certificate was a single woman
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I have seen this a few times where the mothers name was put for an illegitimate bride or groom.
Better than a dash and then "Dead" through the fathers names and occupations column for couples, which I have also on occasions seen. Lazy registrars not following the rules by still asking for the name and occupation of the deceased fathers.
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I have a case of a legitimate ancestor whose father’s is not included and an illegitimate one whose father’s name was included. There are lots of unexpected things on certificates.
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My maternal grandfather was born in Bolsover 1866 (He had my mother age 42 and mum (Mother born 1908) had me when she was aged 41 and I'm now aged 72. The problem was I could not find his birth certificate and his parents (GT Granny was from Boslover on the marriage certificate 1867) were married late in the year 1867 in Wales village (Not country Wales) near Rotherham Yorkshire. baptized my granddad in Wales village church in Jan 1868. It puzzled me why it always said in all census he was born in Bolsover a good 30 miles away from Wales village and no birth certificate. The 1939 register gave his birth date Nov 1866, a good year before his parents where married ? then armed with his birth date and year! i zoomed down to Chesterfield register office to ask if a Herbert had been register born on that date and bingo! they found him born under his mothers surname (and being her maiden name).
Was he the child of his baptized father and granddad took his surname name or his illegitimate father was another man-----?. I think the latter because his baptized named father had moved to Wales village in Yorkshire before 1867 then to Bolsover Derbyshire 1869 originated from Balsall in Warwickshire and some of his children (Granddads siblings) moved about a bit when they grew up also most were very clever, yet granddad stayed local, he never learn to read or write and never really mixed with his sibling, unlike his brother who used to visit his sister who moved to Canada after her marriage. ???
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There can be some bonus finds on certificates. I found the father of my illegitimate gggm named. Censuses showed him in the district at the right time, but he was 10 miles away at the next.
A named mother at least proves that you are following the right family!
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You are right about extra info on certificates - Granddads fathers named on his baptism 1868 entry Wales Rotherham was Samuel Tidmarsh from Balsall in Warwickshire , I (I thought was my GT Granddad) found Samuel's sisters marriage certificate, with her name on the certificate as Elizabeth TidmaRsh on it was a witness (GT x 2 Granddad) signed Thomas Tidmash (no R in it).
OK! Early research in Warwickshire had found GT x 3 Granddad Thomas Tidmash (No R) was baptised Tidmash(no R) in baptism register and married as Thomas Tidmash to a bride called first name Phoebe on the marriage certificate and on the 1841 census in Balsall was Thomas & Phoebe Tidmarsh (With the R ) and his son Thomas and wife Sarah Tidmarsh on the same street.
Therefore to find a marriage certificate with a direct link in a surname change ( not as clerks slip of the pen) the bride Elizabeth Tidmarsh and father signed his name very clear as Tdmarsh (No R) to prove the link was mind boggling at the time of the find.
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I've got a similar certificate from Birmingham in 1899. The groom's birth certificate doesn't show a father's name, and his marriage certificate states "son of Sarah Holyland" instead of giving any father's name.
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Another user on here once said her great, great gran was illegitimate and she put her mothers name as "illeg daughter of Mary Barnes". I think she was born in about 1867 in Norfolk, so DNA testing may help the user find a father if she was to go down the DNA route.
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I have a relative who put his mum's name on the marriage certificate. I can't find anything that happened to her.
I have another that put who I assume is her real dad on it. Hannah Parkinson put her dad as William Whitehead. No idea when he came from.
The best I've seen is an ancestor's husband putting 'can't remember' as father's name.
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I read somewhere it was allowable to enter in the column "Father's Name and Surname" on a marriage entry a mother's name instead, but only if the wording "Mary Smith, Adoptive Parent" was used, ie. referring to a female rather than male adopter. Of course, if the adopted parent was a man there would be no need, in the 'normal' course of events, to mention this at all!
(From 4 May 2021 the electronic register for marriages was introduced; now both parents' names are recorded anyway).
Melbell