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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Galway => Topic started by: Spookyvjh on Thursday 02 June 22 15:08 BST (UK)
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Hello. Would anyone have any information about family origins in Galway please? I have an ancestor, Joseph Manning who married a Dorinda (and had 2 month baby Joseph). He was born around 1798 then enlisted in the EICA in 1819. All I know is that he came from Galway, it is written as Asera but am wondering if this was an error and should be Ahascragh? Any help would be appreciated thanks.
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It's hard, really hit and miss, to find any records that far back in Ireland. It helps if you know a parish.
If you've done DNA testing, there's a Mannion by DNA Facebook group that might be useful. Or even one of the generic Galway groups on there. (Mannion being the common Irish spelling of the name.)
Good luck!
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Hello.
Thanks for message. Yes it is hard. I have put ancestor onto Ireland Reaching Out for Galway (and Ahascragh which I think is the area in Galway he came from) and a volunteer said they were studying Mannion/Manning but I have not heard back as yet. I am also on Roscommon for another Irish family of mine (Gannon). Not even started on the Doyles yet. I will join the FB group for Mannion and a Galway one. I am on Irish Genealolgy one and Roscommon one. Thank you for your suggestion.
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What is the EICA please?
Where have you got the info about a Dorinda and a 2 month old from?
What is the full name, dates and names of children.
There are census substitutes that can go some way back but we need more inofrmation to help you.
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East India Company Army.
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How long did he serve for in this Army? Did he return to Galway?
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No he did not return to Galway. The family arrived in Bombay in 1820 and his wife died shortly after arrival and Joseph himself died in 1826 aged 28 years. Not sure what happened to Joseph Jnr when his parents died but we think Joseph Snr had possibly remarried again shortly after Dorinda died but a researcher found an Eliza Manning married another solider shortly after Joseph died. I am of Joseph Snr and Joseph Jnr and Joseph Jnr Jnr (aka Joseph Benson Manning) line. I had another relative (Gannon) never made it back to Roscommon and have other Irish descendant ie Doyle in India that I have only vague thing of possibly originated from Cork but not sure if returned or not as records not great for India in some cases either. I have public tree on Ancestry.
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Could you pl put all the details you can here as many of us do not subscribe to Ancestry
1 Joseph Manning 1798 -1826 Born Ireland died Bombay
2 Dorinda Manning nee ?? where married ?? when exactly died
3 Joseph Manning where born when died
Presumably Joseph Benson Manning is the son of the 2 month old?
Are you able to able to put up the part of the enlistment documents that you are taking the name Asera/Ahascragh from.
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On the Tithe Applotment Books (1824) there are several Mannings in Co Galway, Thomas and a Michael. The Thomas may lease/own more than one piece of land
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/index.jsp
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01rob/
Clonbaniff, Lissyegan & Killeen will be useful for further investigation.
The other item that is useful is to know the religion.
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Clonbaniff, Lissyegan & Killeen will be useful for further investigation.
The three townlands in Ahascragh civil parish-
Clonbaniff (sic) - Cloonbanniv
https://www.townlands.ie/galway/killian/ahascragh/ahascragh/cloonbanniv/
Lissyegan(Hodson) with Lissyegan(Mahon) to the east.
https://www.townlands.ie/galway/killian/ahascragh/ahascragh/lissyegan-hodson/
Killeen
https://www.townlands.ie/galway/kilconnell/ahascragh/clonbrock/killeen/
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Hi. Thank you for info. Yes I was aware of those names but not sure if relation or not or in what capacity.
As for request for further info, I don't know if I can upload items as not done before but here is some information (quite a lot).
Joseph Manning (Snr) Born abt 1798 (written Ascra, Galway on notes but believe Ahascragh) Death about 6th June 1826 Bombay. May 1819 attestation papers for EIC says he is 5'7", Blue Eyes, Fresh complexion, long face, brown hair, 21 years. Birth of son around 1819 - he was said to be about 2 months when sailed for India. Joseph Snr was signed up in Galway by Cpt Grange for EIC for unlimited service. Bombay Artillery. He was listed as 'Clerk' on occupation on attestation papers. He sailed on the 'Thomas Coutts' with his wife Dorinda and 2 month son Joseph. Religion - Roman Catholic. Joseph was due to be transferred to Golundaze battalion but died just before transfer on 6/6/1826.
Dorinda - know nothing about her maiden name, think born around 1798. Died 12 Aug 1820 in Bombay.
Joseph Manning (Jnr) born abt 1819 and died 17/9/1891 in Bengal, India. Enlisted EIC on 23/4/1846 as Bugler 1st Battallion. ** This is an interesting one as Researcher said Bugler roles were almost always allocated to the soldiers of mixed race and there are some discrepancies in ages which could be because they just did not know and if orphaned he may have thought born in India. It is possible Joseph Snr married again after but we don't know if this Joseph was original one born to Dorinda or another baby named Joseph if first one died. Found no record of first one dying and the death for Joseph Snr seems to tie up with him being the one born to Dorinda.** Anyway - carrying on with Joseph Jnr - he married Johanna Salvador (Anna) - a minor - on 2/8/1847. Anna died 29/3/1890. They had a number of children: Joseph Richard 1848-1849, Harriet Catherine, 1852-1914, Ellen 1885-1859, Elizabeth 1857 - ?, Joseph Benson 1858-1909 (Benson is believed to be made up middle name later on in life to distinguish himself?), John 1860-1896, David 1863-1903. Joseph stayed in Bombay Army as Bugler until retired and then worked as a Pound Keeper and Custodian of Elephanta Caves. He died on 17/9/91 in Bengal.
Joseph 'Benson' Manning born 28/1/1858 Bombay. Died 13/4/1909 Bombay. Joseph worked a customs officer and later in trade where business interests did not prosper and died a poor man. He had two marriages:
Mary Jane Harris (b 1866-1891) married 1882. They had children - Ethel May Harris Manning (1866-1891), Percival Lionel Harris Manning (1885-1929), Henry Herbert Graham (1866-?), Matilda Elizabeth Harris Manning (1888-1889), Berthan Jane Harris Manning (1891-1894). After Mary Jane died, he had children out of wedlock with Sophia 'Jane' Oakley (she was a Widow nee Frazer).
Sophia Frazer born 1866-died 1907 Bombay. Married to Joseph Benson on 22/4/1903, Byculla, Bombay. Their children were Herbert (1896-1900), Wilfred David (1897-1897), Bertram (1899-1973), Ernest George (1900--1940 * He died on the German bombing of the Lancastria in the War), Marie (1902-1903), William Henry Ronald Patrick (1904-1985) and John (1905-1908).
I hope that is helpful.
NB attachments below just about Joseph Snr but the picture entry does cut off mentioning child Joseph Manning 2 mths with Dorinda but it is on the document.
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Thanks for all the info!
Looking at the name of the place he is said to come from, as written on the enlistment papers I think it says Ascra rather than Asera (see reply1). Ascra is closer in pronunciation to name Ahascragh especially if a local pronunciation seems to 'swallow' some of the letters. Anyway I think the idea that it is Ahascragh is fine.
Do you have any idea when the ship (Thomas Coutts) sailed for India so we can pinpoint a rough dob for the 2 month old Joseph.
So you knew of the Thomas and the Michael and the three areas mentioned from the Tithe Applotments (Kiltaglassan has found out more info on these areas).
So you are trying to find out parents names and if the Thomas/Michael are connected to Joseph?
Also his occupation before enlistment of clerk is valuable.
He attested in May and they embarked in Nov, not sure which date the entry about Dorinda and baby Joseph appies to.....born March or September 1819.
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Hi.
Thomas and Michael - No - other than I have seen their name in a few places and thought possibly owned more than one property I have not researched further as don't know if related or if so, how. I just saw a document with their name and area on but it would be good to explore further.
Yes I thought it read Ascra more than Asera and when I checked with Galway heritage, they thought more likely Ahascragh spelling error based on the sound of it. There was nowhere else in Galway that the researcher looking at older Galway parishes etc or Galway Heritage thought it may be.
I don't know anything more about Joseph Snr but it just said Clerk on the military papers. He sailed on the 29th November 1819 so presumably Joseph (Jnr) was born in September (depending on how accurate the records are).
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I have been skimming through this website, mainly to find Manning/Mannion who may be contemporaries of your Joseph.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/
I have found found a death for Thomas Mannion in 1871 who died aged 80. He died in the Workhouse hospital so no home address for him. He was a widower so there would have been no-one to nurse him at home and that is probably why he went to the hospital.
He may be the Thomas who held land noted in Griffiths.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1872/020743/7277286.pdf
There is also an 85 year Army pensioner John Mannion who died in 1880. He died at ? Inis Island.
If you were able to find his army file there might be some connection to your ancestor.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1880/06484/4865748.pdf
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Hello.
Thank you. That is really helpful. I have joined FB Mannion groups to try and see if I can get further with this through this route also but shall look into these links and explore more - I know Ahascragh was very near the heart of Mannion Clan territory (later spread out) and that Manning is a variation of Mannion, so hope to find out more.
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Kiltaglassan - Thank you re townlands. I had not realised Ahascragh was a Civil Parish with more than one townland. I saw from Griffiths that it said Ahascragh town then Ahascragh west and Ahascragh east so it is useful to know about Killeen, Lissyegan and Cloonbanniv. Do you know if the Ahascragh Civil Parish was an RC one? Thanks.
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Do you know if the Ahascragh Civil Parish was an RC one?
Yes,
Ahascragh and Killosolan
Diocese of Elphin | County Galway
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0535
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Thank you again.