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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: Loubu on Wednesday 01 June 22 04:45 BST (UK)
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I’m on the trail of Charles Bureau married to Jane documented in the UK census 1851 but at no other time before of after.
I’ve just learned that another Bureau family is listed in the 1841 census & I’m wondering if there is a connection. The names & year of birth are as follows-
Montague Bureau 1776
Francis Bureau 1786
Henry 1816
Montague 1821
Edward 1826
Mary Ann 1832
Much later in 1861 another Bureau household is listed in Stafford & in 1871 another in Cheshire
If none has any information I’d be very happy to hear from you.
After the birth of Charles’ son in 1823 there are no further records relating to Charles. Was he still in UK or elsewhere?
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If you purchase a copy of the marriage certificate it will give his father's name and where he was living Marriage 18 July 1850 Portsea Hampshire.
He was in the Royal Navy, try and trace his service record.
Born Quebec British subject in 1851
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After the birth of Charles’ son in 1823 there are no further records relating to Charles. Was he still in UK or elsewhere?
The Charles of the 1851 census was born in 1823, so are you saying that you are looking for the father of this Charles and that his father was Charles?
1851 census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGYB-Q8R
Marriage: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N251-TPN
Military service: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:68W7-Z5VX
Jamjar
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Possible son John Bureau registered Portsea 1851 mothers maiden name Jones.
March Quarter Vol 7 page 185.
ADDED
He died the same quarter Vol 7 page 121
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Charles Abraham Bureau on FreeBMD
on GRO as Charles Abraham Burean 1852 December Quarter registered Sheppey Union Vol 02a page 549 mothers maiden name Jones.
Correction sent
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There is a death in Wales for a Charles born in 1853:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2NR8-4JR
Charles Abraham marriage: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2DZG-7R1
An 1889 christening has mother as Margaret:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VF8M-WFF
1891: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:HMNT-TPZ
Jamjar
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Hi everyone,
Thanks for taking the time to reply. Apologies for the typo but I meant to write “ after the birth of Charles son in 1852 “ & not 1823.
So in rely to amongd, yes I have a copy of the marriage certificate of Charles & Jane Bureau & have tried to track down the naval record but had no luck so far.
So the dates I have documentation for Charles Bureau are-
1850 - marriage to Jane Jones. Fathers name is documented as John although this could be Jean if there are origins in Quebec or France?
1851- UK census, listed with just Jane
1852- named as father on the birth certificate of his son Charles Abraham…..& then the trail goes cold.
I too found the record of the birth & death of infant John Bureau in 1851. This first born child must have been names after Charles’ father.
To Jamjar, apologies my typo is explained above. I’m looking for birth details of Charles Bureau born in 1823 in Quebec, I’ve been able to trace his son / my great grandfather Charles Abraham who’s firstborn was also named Charles to add to the confusion :-\ Many thanks for the links!
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There are newspaper reports of Charles Bureau, gunner's mate, being killed (along with several others) in an accident aboard HMS London on June 15th 1853.
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Hi Shaun J,
Oh wow! Many thanks for your reply, do you by any chance have a link to the article? Just found out this afternoon that Charles was a quartermaster on HMS Excellent in 1850, obviously if he was killed on HMS London in 1853, this explains the lack of further info.
Many thanks
L
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This appeared in many newspapers in late June 1853:
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Also found this - presumably Charles Abraham - in the Aberdare Leader in March 1903
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3575507/3575511/30/
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Charles snr. Born Quebec was a British subject so his parents were English not French Canadian.
His father may have also had a military career and been stationed there.
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Born Quebec was a British subject so his parents were English not French Canadian.
Hmm I'm not sure that's correct. Quebec was then a British colony so I think that he would have been a British Subject by birth.
Father John was a coach maker per the 1850 marriage record.
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A possibility for the father in the 1842 Quebec census: J B Bureau, charon (= coach maker)
https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1842LC&op=img&id=004569590_00289
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Possible baptism at Quebec: Charles Ferdinand Bureau dit Sanssouci, baptised 17 May 1822, son of Jean Bureau charon (coach maker) and Luce Monier (?)
https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/11780564:1091
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ShaunJ I can’t thank you enough for sharing all this information :)
The newspaper report is really concrete evidence of the demise of Charles Bureau, the date fits with the rest of the story & why he cannot be found in the following years. The report says the men were buried at sea the same day. I’m just wondering about the death certificate as I’ve not been able to find any record of one, would this be specially recorded by the RN & not by the usual method do you think?
Thanks amongd for your contribution although I tend to agree with ShaunJ that Quebec was a British colony at that time, so despite being born in Quebec Charles would still be considered British. Looking back through UK records to find any UK based parents of Charles, I’ve drawn a complete blank & as I mentioned at the beginning of this thread in the 1841 census I see several entries for Bureau, but the head of the household in Montague with no mention of a Charles or John.
ShaunJ I’ve previously seen the 1822 baptism entry & wondered if it’s relating to my ancestor or not, points for are the fathers name John & occupation which are the same as Charles’ wedding certificate although I’m imaging both were commonplace at the time?
Points against is Charles name is not the same as used in UK although this could be just a simpler form, just using the name Bureau alone often makes things complicated in UK! Also the date of birth is 1822, in the 1851 census Charles gives his birthdate as about 1823 & unfortunately in the wedding certificate it’s illegible, looks more like a word than a number, so my guess is it’s an abbrev for of age or something similar?
I contacted the Quebec Geneological Society a few months back & they said the surname Bureau is very common in Quebec & for the years 1669-1849 they have over 2000 entries, they said the baptism entry is the closest they have to the date 1823 for a Charles Bureau.
The only other way I can think of to confirm parents details would be if any of this information was documented when he joined the RN.
Many thanks once again!
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in the 1851 census Charles gives his birthdate as about 1823
No he said he was 28. The census date was 30 March 1851, so he would have been born sometime between 1 April 1822 and 30 March 1823. A birth year of 1822 is three times more likely than 1823.
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Yes now you mention it I remember seeing 28 documented somewhere, I’m glad your maths is better than mine! The pieces are slowly coming together & this could be a match.
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I’m just wondering about the death certificate as I’ve not been able to find any record of one
The death was outside British waters (somewhere off the coast of Portugal I think) so no death certificate would have been issued.
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Many thanks to Shaun J and LouB for the above info. I've been looking for many years without success. This explains a lot. How horrific an ending for the 30 year old Charles, and for his poor young wife and young son at the time. And then for his son too, later on, that he was disabled. Presumably he met with an accident as well? Having read the article about Charles's dreadful accident on board ship, i have again searched RN records, but still cannot find him! Why not?? Re his purported parents, yes difficult, as Bureau in France and Quebec as common as Jones in Wales! Your suggestions are feasible. My question would be, who was he named after, if anyone, as I am under the impression that sons were usually named for their father or grandfather. Charles is of course both a French and English name, but Abraham, i suspect not French [?]. Maybe further information and confirmation will be forthcoming. Thanks once again.
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Hi, again. Just read Shaun J latest post on reason for no death cert being issued. Guessed the accident happened in foreign waters. Presumably RN issued some kind of document? His widow subsequently married my great great grandfather, also in RN, but they lived together for 18 years before they actually tied the knot. Might this reason have been because she couldnt produce a death cert to prove she was a widow?
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She didn;t need to produce a certificate to prove she was a widow when she remarried (many women said they were widows on marriage when they weren't!). It might be she has some sort of allowance as a result of her husband's death in service which would have been stopped if she remarried
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Thanks very much for this info. I'm not surprised Jane didn't have to supply a death certificate as I guess the authorities were not hot on bureaucracy then! Your explanation for why she was late remarrying makes perfect sense, and something I'd never considered.
The most curious point is that I still cannot find any reference to Charles in RN records. I certainly don't get that! Thank you again. Most helpful. It's been a brick wall for so many years for all us descendants! Now we know the truth about his awful death.
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The most curious point is that I still cannot find any reference to Charles in RN records
There are no surviving records for the other sailors who died in that accident either. I know that the army routinely (after a period of years) destroyed records of soldiers who had died in service - my guess is that the navy did the same. No need to keep them for pension purposes.
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Thanks for that very important info. I think that's disgraceful! It's like they never existed!! They still served. But maybe it's typical of the way this country treats its service people...
You may have seen a post yesterday from a lady who suggests that Charles's pension would have been paid to his widow until such time as she remarried, which I thought might explain why Jane didn't do so for 18 years? But maybe that wasn't the case if he disappeared from their records? Thanks again.
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In other newspaper reports of the 1853 accident his name is given as Charles Burreau.
Now the plot thickens ! There's a Royal Navy allotment declaration for Quartermaster Charles Burreau in 1848 (1 June), HMS Howe, Sending money to a Jno Swarton as trustee for a child Charles Burreau aged 7 months. 58 King Street, Portsea
https://www.familysearch.org/search/ark:/61903/1:1:68W7-L78C
Also see this account of the accident: https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_United_Service_Magazine/ONoRAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22charles+burreau%22+1853&pg=RA1-PA455&printsec=frontcover
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Child's name. age (on 1 June 1848) and place of baptism. Is that St John's Portsea?
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Well, goodness gracious me! You really couldn't write it! It implies it's maybe an illegitimate baby? More research for Louise and I to do. Why would you call 2 of your sons Charles, oh, unless this first one died? Your research is amazing! We would never have got this far without it. Thanks so much. Are you also a descendant, or a person who revels in genealogical research? Clare
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So here is the trustee - at 58 King St, Portsea. John is ex navy
Ina Swatton 65 - image shows Jno aged 45. Messenger in dock yard
Mahala Swatton 36 [maiden name Byles]
Elizeth A Swatton 13
Heneretta Swatton 12
Emma Swatton 9
Flora Swatton 8
Edwin Swatton 4
Mary Ann Barker 47
HO107; 1658; 378; 16;
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Wow, thanks, Mabel. So kind. Some questions, please. What exactly is a Trustee in this instance? Where is the baby, Charles Burreau, and who is his mother? As you may know, Byles is my family, Valentine John McLaughton Byles being my grt grt grandad.
Mahala Byles is one of his sisters. I can't find a birth reg for the baby, or his baptism, nor a death rec. If he's Chas Bureau's son, why did he name the son in his marriage to Jane Jones, Charles as well? I'm guessing first baby Chas died. Was Chas married before he married Jane? You and ShaunJ are obviously excellent researchers, as I can't find the info you both have! The info we've recently had is quite mind-blowing, knocking down a longstanding brickwall. But it's also thrown up a plethora of questions, as I suppose is often the case? Many thanks once again. Clare
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I'm assuming being a trustee means Mr Swatton is holding the money Charles is sending to the youngster
The connection might not be easy to work out - I did wonder if the Swattons had on older daughter who could have been little Charles' mother, but that doesn't look to be the case. Another option is that they're fostering him and Charles snr is sending home cash for his care
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Thanks, Mabel. I wonder why he isn't on the family list, unless he is living elsewhere with his mum?
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Hi, again, Mabel. My apologies. I obviously wasn't concentrating properly when I sent my reply! Of course, the little boy could very easily have been fostered.
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Hi everyone, many thanks Shaun for this latest piece of information & thanks Mabel.
So early on in my search to learn more about Charles Bureau one of the first listings of someone of that name was in the 1881 census, this was also noted by Amby in a thread that started in 2009.
The location was Bayley Cottages, Monken Hadley, Barnet, Middlesex & Charles Bureau 22 yrs was lodging with William Matthews & his family, he was noted as being a baker/journeyman, so who was he ? It’s clear from the information from Shaun J this wasn’t Charles Bureau husband of Jane as he died in 1853, also his son Charles Abraham Bureau was listed in the 1881 census along with his mother, step father & step sibling in Pembroke, Wales, it was mentioned he was a mariner.
One thing has become clear & that is there were very few men of this name in the UK at this time. The baby Charles that was entrusted to John Swatton & family in 1848 aged 7months would have been approx 32 years old in 1881. I can’t help but wonder if this the Charles at Bayley Cottages is the child left with John Swatton & perhaps a simple mistake has been made in documenting his age, a typo of that era? The only other explanation is that he is someone completely unrelated & just passing through the uk at that time. Does anyone else have any ideas about this person? In the old post Ambly seemed convinced this was Charles Abraham but obviously that is not so.
Going back to baby Charles being left with John Swatton, I can’t help but wonder what happened to the mother? There doesn’t seem to be a birth record, I must try & access the baptism records next.
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The location was Bayley Cottages, Monken Hadley, Barnet, Middlesex & Charles Bureau 22 yrs was lodging with William Matthews & his family, he was noted as being a baker/journeyman, so who was he ?
Charles Michael Briveau, born Gravesend 1859, married Julia Edwards in 1885, still at Bayley's Cottages in 1891.
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So, I'd guess absolutely no relation, and a different name, tho I know Bureau has been spelt different ways.
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Following up on the baptism posted earlier by ShaunJ (reply #14) for Charles Ferdinand Bureau with parents Jean Bureau and Luce Monier….
The 1851 census for Quebec (actually taken in 1852) at this link appears to connect the dots between that Charles and the Charles who went to England and married Jane. At the end of the list of children in the census is a Charles noted as living elsewhere, in Angleterre. This is England.
Father in the census a coachmaker.
2nd son listed as living in Boston. Both entries crossed out for some reason but still clearly legible.
https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1851&op=img&id=e002332556 (courtesy of Library and Archives Canada)
Anyway, food for thought.
PB
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At the end of the list of children in the census is a Charles noted as living elsewhere, in Angleterre.
Well found, Polarbear. That bit of (extra statutory) census information feels like a breakthrough. I think we have the right family.
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Just waking up to your message Polar Bear, what a find, many thanks for sharing :)
In this entry it is quite nice to see the name simply written as Charles Bureau rather than the full name of Charles Ferdinand Bureau dit Sancoucy, which rather explains why (if this is the same Charles married to Jane), just Charles Bureau was used in other documentation in England.
There is an extensive family tree for Charles Ferdinand posted on Family Search, & whilst the birth & death dates are entered for his parents & sibling there is no date of death for Charles. I’ve recently tried contacting the person who posted the tree to compare notes but no reply so far.
Seeing the crossed out entry of the two sons not resident in Canada is so very serendipitous!
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Family tree of Charles Ferdinand Bureau dit Sancoucy
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/fanchart/LBZZ-C47
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You are very welcome. Certainly looks like your family.
Haven’t found the parents’ marriage yet but Ancestry seems to have info about a marriage contract from 1821, if I remember correctly.
PB
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Just had a closer look & column 9 is quite interesting, “Marie/non Marie” married or single?
For Charles it indicates that he’s married, Charles & Jane married in 1850.
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There’s a tree on ancestry which says Jean Baptiste and Luce Monier were married on 20 may 1821 in Quebec. It has both their births in Quebec too. BUT it doesn’t have Charles as a son, and says Jean Baptiste died in 1837, yet he’s on the 1851 census posted above 🤔
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Charles died 15 Jun 1853 when the ship he was serving on had a disastrous accident.
There are multiple newspaper articles on it, such as Portsmouth Times and Naval Gazette 25 June 1853.
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Charles died 15 Jun 1853 when the ship he was serving on had a disastrous accident.
There are multiple newspaper articles on it, such as Portsmouth Times and Naval Gazette 25 June 1853.
Thanks, the tree has his father’s death in 1837
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The family search tree has a similar birth - year out but same place - for JeanBaptiste as the tree on Ancestry but has his death in 1874
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Charles died 15 Jun 1853 when the ship he was serving on had a disastrous accident.
There are multiple newspaper articles on it, such as Portsmouth Times and Naval Gazette 25 June 1853.
See replies #8-#10.
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Thanks for this info. We've just found this out about a fortnight ago from other kind people's postings. It's broken down our brickwall of many years.
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The problem I have with the suggested family tree and 1825 census, is that Charles Ferdinand, the first child, born in 1822, does NOT appear on it, when he would have been 2/3 years of age. So, is it the correct family?
Having been previously confused by having several Charles Bureaus in Quebec to choose from, there are also several Jean and Jean-Baptiste Bureaus. In some censuses there is a Jean Bureau, occupation Charon, but in other censuses there is listed Jean-Baptiste! It should be noted there is another Jean-Baptiste Bureau around the same time, and in the censuses, but with a different wife and children!
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The 1825 Quebec census doesn't list the names or ages of children.
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clarecuba - The 1851 census posted by polarbear earlier today which has Jean Bt Bureau, charron, Luce Monier, plus children, and includes 2 children crossed out at the bottom, Chs (Angleterre) and Theo (Boston) - presumably including them by mistake as they no longer live in Canada - seems to be pretty good proof that this is the right family.
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Most certainly the same family in the 1851 Quebec census. It is extremely fortunate that Jean recorded his son Charles as living in England. Connects the dots quite well, IMHO.
Here are the pertinent facts for the parents’ marriage. The full image is available on Ancestry.
On 02 May 1821
At Basilique Notre-Dame Quebec City Quebec
Between…
Jean Baptiste Bureau Master Coachmaker of this city (Quebec City)
Son of the age of majority of Jean Baptiste Bureau and Marie Jacob of the parish of l’Ange Gardian
And…
Luce Monier of this city (Quebec City)
Daughter of the age of majority of Charles Monier and deceased Marie Anne Falardeau of this parish
In the presence of…
Jean Baptiste Bureau father of the groom
Louis Bureau brother of the groom
Louis Jacob maternal uncle of the groom
Charles Monier father of the bride
Charles Monier brother of the bride
Brother-in-law of the bride whose name I can’t make out
Others not named
PB
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Wow! Thanks so much for that.
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You’re very welcome.
Here is the Quebec family in the 1861 census. Jean now has 2 sons in Boston. Charles, now deceased, is not included.
https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1861&op=img&id=4108624_00711
Luce Monier died in 1864 (image on Ancestry as Luce Monier). I haven’t yet found a death for Jean.
PB
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According to the detailed tree on FS JeanBaptiste died on 16 nov 1874 and was buried on 19 Nov - but I can’t find that record on ancestry.
Edited: died at St Jean Baptiste, Quebec, same as Luce, buried there too, but Luce was buried at Belmont Sainte-Foy
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You can find the record indexed on Ancestry as Jean Baptiste BURON. Poor writing in the record. It is image 78 of 99 for St Jean Baptiste church in 1874.
At St Jean Baptiste Church Quebec City
Jean Baptiste Bureau
Coachmaker
Widower of Luce Monier
Died 16 Nov 1874
Buried at Notre-Dame de Belmont 19 Nov 1874
PB
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Thanks polarbear, great help 😀
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Thanks so much for this info
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You’re welcome.
Do you have access to the burial record for Luce on Ancestry? I didn’t post much about it at the time.
PB
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Thank you. My French is reasonable, but I'm struggling with a lot of the script! Hopefully I can get a transcription.
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The basics for Luce…
At St Jean Baptiste Church Quebec City
Madame Luce Monier age 63
Wife of Jean Baptiste Bureau Coachmaker
Died 30 June 1864 (day prior to burial)
Buried 01 July 1864 at Notre-Dame de Belmont Cemetery.
PB
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Child's name. age (on 1 June 1848) and place of baptism. Is that St John's Portsea?
I've found the baptism records for St John's Portsea and St John's RC Cathedral (though it wasn't a Cathedral at that time) but can't find any record of a baptism of a Charles .....
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Many thanks PB, after searching for so long, it’s a wonderful feeling to have some answers :)
Following on from the 1851-2 census I was curious about the other absent son Theophile-Jean who was understood to be in Boston. It seems Theophile lived the remainder of his life in the USA, where he was known as John T Bureau.
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/fanchart/KLCJ-H11
In the 1900 USA census Theophile/John is living with his son George-Henri & family in Manistee, Michigan, a few years later he passed away 12 January 1903 aged 76. Theophiles’ wife Luce (same name as his mother) passed away a few years previously in 1900 aged 70
I was thrilled to stumble upon this delightful photo of George-Henri & his wife Georgina.
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/memories/9DDZ-FGM
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This is a wonderful discovery! You must be so happy!
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Baptism..
Jean Baptiste Bureau
Born 17 Mar 1796
Bapt 18 Mar 1796
Parents Jean Baptiste Bureau and Marie Jacob
Godfather (paraine) Joseph Jacob Grandfather (this is mother’s father)
Godmother (maraine) Marie Anne Touchet Grandmother (this is father’s mother)
At l’Ange Gardien Montmorency County Quebec
Baptism..
Luce Monier
Bapt 08 Mar 1798, born this morning
Parents Charles Monier, Butcher, and Marie Anne Falardeau
Godfather Louis ?
Godmother Madeleine Seguin
At Basilique Notre-Dame Quebec City
Images available on ancestry and possibly familysearch
PB
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Thanks for this very useful information. It's enabled us to break down a longstanding brickwall.
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Glad to be able to help.
Marriage..
At l’Ange Gardien Montmorency County Quebec
22 Oct 1793
Between
Jean Baptiste Bureau
Son of Jean Baptiste Bureau and Marie Anne Touchette of this parish
And
Marie Jacob
Daur of Joseph Jacob and Marie Magdaleine Julien of this parish
In presence of
Father of groom
Father of bride
Julien Bureau
Simon Lecompte
Francois Julien
Francois Vezina
And others not named
Image available on ancestry and possibly familysearch
PB
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Thanks again.
I'm now looking for my great great grandmother, Jane Jones, born about 1824 in Pembrokeshire, who married Charles Bureau. I don't know how to post that on this site!! I can't find any records for her or sisters Lettuce or Mary, or father Thomas. I'm guessing they must have been non-conformist chapel goers?
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Lettice!
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Brilliant work PB!
Clare & I have deduced that Lettice & Jane were both married in Portsea in April & July 1850 respectively. It seems their father Thomas Jones died after Lettice’s marriage but before Jane’s. This is quite a small window of time but as Thomas Jones is quite a common name & we don’t know where he died, it’s not an easy task.
Clare, I’ve had a look at Free BMD & there are no deaths in Pembroke or Portsea for this time period. I wonder if we are looking at an event like Charles Bureau’s where the death was not registered in the normal fashion.
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I’ve had a look at Free BMD & there are no deaths in Pembroke or Portsea for this time period.
I didn't see this one on freebmd, but it shows at the GRO:
JONES, THOMAS age 48
GRO Reference: 1850 M Quarter in ALVERSTOKE Volume 07 Page 13
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Image of Lettice's marriage to Valentine BYLES is on FindMyPast 28 April 1850.
So is Jane's 18 July 1850. Lettice Byles is a witness, and Thomas the father is shown as deceased, at least that is what it looks like. Charles is a Petty Officer in RN and his father John is a coach maker.
Both at Parish Church, Portsea.
Ian C
Added - Not sure if you have this or even if it is your Lettice
Lettice BYLES death registered
GRO Reference: 1855 S Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND Volume 02B Page 238 - aged 30
Do you know what happened to Mary?
What was their mother's name?
I have an ancestor named Mary JONES born c1808 in Wales. Like looking for a needle in a haystack.
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According to FreeBMD Valentine John BYLES married Jane BUREAU in 1875 in Bristol.
There are a number of trees on Ancestry that have him and Jane as having children in the 1850s and 1860s, although she is called Lettice Jane. Is it possible that it is Lettice that died in 1855 and Jane got together with Mr Byles but did not marry him until later on.
GRO has mmn of children after 1855 as JONES which if it is Jane then that would still be correct.
Of course you may know all of this already.
Ian C
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1861 census Bangor Wales
BYLES John, head, m, 36, Coast guard, born Hampshire
BYLES Jane, wife, m, 35, - , born Pembrokesh.
BYLES Samuel, son, 9, scholar, born Hampshire, Southsea
BYLES Charles, son, 8, scholar, born Sheppey
BYLES William, son, 4, born Hampshire, Landport
BYLES Rosetta, dau, 2, born Carnarvonshire, Bangor
BYLES John, son, 3m, born ditto.
Samuel's mmn JONES, so probably Lettice's
No sign of birth for a Charles BYLES in 1852-3. Is he the Charles Abraham Bureau born Dec qtr 1852. Fits with age and birthplace. See reply #4 by amondg.
Other BYLES children all have mmn as JONES, so probably Jane's.
The trees on Ancestry would appear to have confused the two Jones sisters hence the name Lettice Jane.
Valentine was going by John as well. He died 1900 and Jane in 1901, both in Neyland, Pembrokeshire.
As I said in the previous post you may already know all of this.
Ian C
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In 1871 Charles BYLES aged 19 is on the Anson in the RN at Chatham, Kent.
In 1881 he is back in Wales with John and Jane aged 28 a Mariner.
His naval records are on Ancestry. Gives his birthdate as 22 Oct 1852, Sheerness, Kent. Joined in 1870 for 10 years.
Can't find him after 1881 as BYLES.
In 1891 and 1901 he is Charles A BUREAU in Aberdare, Wales. Died there in 1904.
Ian C
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Some trees on Ancestry for Charles Abraham with his parents as Charles BUREAU and Jane JONES. One of them has a link to a baptism of a Jane JONES on 29 Dec 1822 at Moncton, Pembroke, parents Thomas and Mary.
https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/62109/images/004220539_00034?pId=286300
Ian C
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Thanks for this. Louise and I already have the info. This Jones family is proving very elusive atm. But I'm optimistic we'll find them eventually. But, yes, Jones/Wales/needle/haystack!
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Thanks so much Eyesee! I wonder if the Jane Jones born/baptised 1822, dad Thomas, mum Mary, is ours?? It could be promising. The Pembroke archives couldn't find anything, but they were looking in Cuffern/Roch parishes, as directed by me, as Jane and Lettice's birthplace is given as Cuffern on the censuses. His occupation as mariner could fit in with what's on the girls' marriage certificates, as rigger.
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So maybe we've been looking in the wrong place, ie Cuffern? But why would they have put that? Mystery. And, yes, I've seen references to Lettice having several more children with Val John; bit difficult when she died in 1855! The 2 girls were sisters. Mary was another, older sister. It was illegal until about 1910 to marry your deceased spouse's sibling, but it did happen. If you moved to another part of the country, who would know? We don't know why Jane and Val J waited 28 years to tie the knot. Not sure if you know this, but we very recently discovered what happened to Charles Bureau, Jane's hubby. Killed in a tragic accident at sea in June 1853. No death certificate issued; royal naval records expunged. We know a lot more now about his French Canadian - Quebec from records there. Interesting to note that Bureau is as common a name there as Jones is in Wales!