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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cork => Topic started by: katiesam on Tuesday 31 May 22 12:23 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
I'm unable to find any birth/marriage/death records for my great-great grandparents. I'm relying on what my grandmother has told me about her grandparents.
I'm a subscriber to myhertiage and have looked on there and have searched on the Irish Geneaoly site with no results matching.
I've been told the following -
John Costello 1885-1947 born in Dublin, died in Cork
Mary Costello (born Garins) 1887-1961, born in Cork and died in London, England
They had a son called John in 1917 who is my great grandfather and a son called James circa 1920. There could be other children, but these are the only ones I'm aware of.
I have a feeling the surname Garins could be spelled wrong or maybe is wrong, my grandmother is adamant it was Garins and presumes it was spelled that way.
Please can someone point me in the right direction - I would love to find out details about their siblings and parents if possible. Don't know where to look for more info
Thank you!
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I wonder if the name was Gearon or Guerin - lots of variations.
It is strange that no records are showing.
When you say John snr died in Cork, is that the city or the county?
Is this John’s death?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1947/04577/4209854.pdf
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From FreeBMD.org.uk:
Deaths, September qtr 1961
Wandsworth Registration District vol 5d, page 543
Costello, Mary age at death: 75 (so birth c1886)
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From FreeBMD.org.uk:
Deaths, September qtr 1961
Wandsworth Registration District vol 5d, page 543
Costello, Mary age at death: 75 (so birth c1886)
Hi, Thank you! Yes she died in Wandsworth so this is definitely her x
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Closest I found so far is a John Costelloe & Mary Donovan ???
son John born 1917-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1917/01316/1543864.pdf
son James born 1920-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1920/01196/1497816.pdf
This couple married in 1916-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1916/09782/5550765.pdf
katiesam- do you have a date of birth for your great-grandfather John?
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I wonder if the name was Gearon or Guerin - lots of variations.
It is strange that no records are showing.
When you say John snr died in Cork, is that the city or the county?
Is this John’s death?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1947/04577/4209854.pdf
Hi, yes that seems to be him, I'm unsure if it was the county or the city, I presumed it was the city as I was told his wife Mary was from Cork City. It is strange that I cannot find anything about her birth or marriage - I wonder if records have been destroyed in the record fire as I know alot of Irish records were.
Thank you! x
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Closest I found so far is a John Costelloe & Mary Donovan ???
son John born 1917-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1917/01316/1543864.pdf
son James born 1920-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1920/01196/1497816.pdf
This couple married in 1916-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1916/09782/5550765.pdf
katiesam- do you have a date of birth for your great-grandfather John?
yes his date of birth is 2nd January 1917 I've been told
funny you should say donovan as that's the only close match I found and was told my family members she was garins? so strange
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No Irish vital records (births, marriages, death) were destroyed.
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yes his date of birth is 2nd January 1917 I've been told
funny you should say donovan as that's the only close match I found and was told my family members she was garins? so strange
It's possible she was also known by another name (stepfather, mother's partner, mother's parents' etc.) so too soon to rule anything out yet.
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Hi, yes that seems to be him, I'm unsure if it was the county or the city, I presumed it was the city as I was told his wife Mary was from Cork City.
It was definitely the city - it says Urban 5 for the Registrar's District.
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Thank you so much all!
How would I confirm that the Mary Garins my family knew her as is actually Mary Donovan - would her parents be the best place to start? Her age at marriage to John was 29 so maybe a previous married name?
My great grandad was born 3rd January 1917 and Mary Donavans son was born same day with same name in same city - must be her!
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Sorry - I came to this late and didn’t realise you were on the 2nd page! ::)
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Sorry - I came to this late and didn’t realise you were on the 2nd page! ::)
Thank you! Was you able to find her birth entry? Her marriage entry says her father's name was James Donavan but all the entries I could see for 1887 do not have James listed as the father so I fear I might have the wrong year of birth - such a common name as well! x
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Not yet - just looking.
I was out and when I came back was still on the 1st page so continued looking and found the Donovan entries. I posted them, then saw the other posts.
Have you searched for Katie, the witness?
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Not yet - just looking.
I was out and when I came back was still on the 1st page so continued looking and found the Donovan entries. I posted them, then saw the other posts.
Have you searched for Katie, the witness?
I've had a look - can't see one with james donovan listed as the father on birth entry - either I've missed it or maybe it's a sister in law
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Something to file for now-
1901 census has a Mary Donovan age 15, previous entry a Catherine Donovan age 14 and 2 after Mary is another Catherine Donovan age 15- St. Finbar's Industrial School http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Cork_Urban_No__4/Carrignaveigh/1106274/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000517806/
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Something to file for now-
1901 census has a Mary Donovan age 15, previous entry a Catherine Donovan age 14 and 2 after Mary is another Catherine Donovan age 15- St. Finbar's Industrial School http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Cork_Urban_No__4/Carrignaveigh/1106274/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000517806/
I found an entry of birth for a Kate Donovan in 1888 - one year younger than Mary Donavan whos father was also James Donovan, as I can't find a birth entry for Mary I can't compare the listed address to see if they match - its so hard to know who is who with such common names.
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This record?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1888/02500/1927242.pdf
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Mary Donovan born Oct.1885 with same parents as above Kate (James Donovan & Kate Cronin)-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1885/02619/1966771.pdf
Address is 7 Weigh House Lane
Added-
marriage of parents in May 1885-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1885/10871/5970139.pdf
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I’m slow today - saw the same ones.
I have tried searching deaths for either/both parents pre 1901 but nothing yet.
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How would I confirm that the Mary Garins my family knew her as is actually Mary Donovan - would her parents be the best place to start? Her age at marriage to John was 29 so maybe a previous married name?
Mary Donovan's age on the marriage registration was "Full" which meant that she was over 21.
Does the address she gave when she married provide any clues?
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How would I confirm that the Mary Garins my family knew her as is actually Mary Donovan - would her parents be the best place to start? Her age at marriage to John was 29 so maybe a previous married name?
Mary Donovan's age on the marriage registration was "Full" which meant that she was over 21.
Does the address she gave when she married provide any clues?
unfortunately not as I have no confirmed details for her - all I know for sure is she was from cork city, husband was john costello and she has two sons called John and James. All very common names :(
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I’m slow today - saw the same ones.
I have tried searching deaths for either/both parents pre 1901 but nothing yet.
I found Kate Cronin (marys mother) remarried in 1913 and her address is listed as Midleton Workhouse in Cork and it listed her as a widow so the father must have died pre 1913
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I found Kate Cronin (marys mother) remarried in 1913 and her address is listed as Midleton Workhouse in Cork and it listed her as a widow so the father must have died pre 1913
Can you post a link to that marriage or at least name of groom.
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I found Kate Cronin (marys mother) remarried in 1913 and her address is listed as Midleton Workhouse in Cork and it listed her as a widow so the father must have died pre 1913
Can you post a link to that marriage or at least name of groom.
Groom was Roger Bevan
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1913/09884/5590932.pdf
first time I've seen tramp listed as profession :o
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Death of Roger Bevan- informant wife Kate-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1931/04901/4328256.pdf
A Catherine Bevan died 1940- is this Kate?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1940/04728/4263932.pdf
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Death of Roger Bevan- informant wife Kate-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1931/04901/4328256.pdf
A Catherine Bevan died 1940- is this Kate?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1940/04728/4263932.pdf
I'm not sure that Catherine is kate as that would mean she was born circa 1870 and would mean she was only 15 when she got married for the first time in 1885 - the marriage certificate says she was full age. Thank you for the potential death for Roger - will see if I can get some more info on him, he must have been a bit younger than kate as he was only 6 years older than her oldest daughter. x
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I wasn't convinced that Catherine is Kate either but checking further that death may be the wrong Roger Bevan.
He's one in 1911 who is a painter with wife 'Cathern' & married 10 years- same address as death in 1913-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Cork_No__4_Urban__part_of_/Blarney_Street/390162/
Marriage of that Roger Bevan to Catherine O'Neill in 1900 rules that one out-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1900/10349/5767558.pdf
Back to searching for deaths of Roger & Kate :-\
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This looks interesting :o
1911 census a Roger Bevan, age 35, with wife Kate, age 45, and a daughter Maggie, age 4- married 5 years-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Watergrasshill/Watergrasshill_Town__part_of/415060/
Birth of daughter Margaret Bevan in Youghal Workhouse gives parents as Roger Bevan and Kate Cronin-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1906/01727/1683057.pdf
Can't find any marriage in Ireland- that would explain 1913 marriage if this is the correct couple.
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Is this Margaret/Maggie Bevan?
A Margaret Bevan, father Roger (labourer) married in 1923- says minor and Maggie would have been about 17 at the time-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1923/09193/5325174.pdf
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Is this Margaret/Maggie Bevan?
A Margaret Bevan, father Roger (labourer) married in 1923- says minor and Maggie would have been about 17 at the time-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1923/09193/5325174.pdf
Same address as Costello/Donovan marriage :)
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Thomas Fleming 1922 Irish Army Census
https://census.militaryarchives.ie/pdf/Victoria_Barracks_Southern_Division_Cork_Command_Page_26.pdf
possibly this lad 1905
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1905/01785/1701321.pdf
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/South_Dock/Davitt_s_Parade/92592/
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I wasn't convinced that Catherine is Kate either but checking further that death may be the wrong Roger Bevan.
He's one in 1911 who is a painter with wife 'Cathern' & married 10 years- same address as death in 1913-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Cork_No__4_Urban__part_of_/Blarney_Street/390162/
Marriage of that Roger Bevan to Catherine O'Neill in 1900 rules that one out-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1900/10349/5767558.pdf
Back to searching for deaths of Roger & Kate :-\
Think I may have found death of roger but still can't find kate's.
Name Rodger Bevan
Birth Circa 1877
Death Mar 6 1917
Age at death 40
Burial / Commemoration Faubourg D'Amiens Cemetery, Arras, France
Burial Notes V. G. 20.
Rank Private
Regiment Royal Munster Fusiliers
Unit / Ship B Coy. 1st Bn.
Service # 9/5417
Father
Name: Maurice Bevan
Residence: Cork
Mother
Name: Mary Bevan
Residence: Cork
Spouse
Name: Kate Bevan
Residence: 21, Peter St., Cork
Comments Son of Maurice and Mary Bevan, of Cork; husband of Kate Bevan, of 21, Peter St., Cork.
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Maybe this is death of James Donovan?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1902/05691/4603977.pdf
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Could this be the death of Catherine Bevan?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1940/04728/4263932.pdf
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Maybe this is death of James Donovan?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1902/05691/4603977.pdf
He is a baker and there is one in 1911 to match the occupation and address.
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Could this be the death of Catherine Bevan?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1940/04728/4263932.pdf
I originally thought this but it would have made her a bit younger than she’s put herself in the census…I know this can happen. This really is a puzzle
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Maybe this is death of James Donovan?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1902/05691/4603977.pdf
He is a baker and there is one in 1911 to match the occupation and address.
So this can’t be him then?
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Could this be the death of Catherine Bevan?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1940/04728/4263932.pdf
The death informant here is John Shinkwin.
There is this marriage in 1919 for Catherine Donovan (father James, deceased) to John Shinkwin.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1919/09698/5517799.pdf
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Kate Shinkwin death 1919
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1919/05147/4418518.pdf
The age wouldn’t fit though :-\
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I was puzzling over the Shinkwin connection
1911 - John and Catherine Shinkwin - 6 Step Lane
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Cork_No__4_Urban__part_of_/Step_Lane/389199/
That 1919 death of Kate might be Catherine from 1911.
She died in June and then John Shinkwin widower married Catherine Donovan in October 1919.
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I was puzzling over the Shinkwin connection
1911 - John and Catherine Shinkwin - 6 Step Lane
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Cork_No__4_Urban__part_of_/Step_Lane/389199/
That 1919 death of Kate might be Catherine from 1911.
She died in June and then John Shinkwin widower married Catherine Donovan in October 1919.
Thank you so much! So do you think Catherine Donovan (Kate Bevans daughter and sister of Mary) married John Shinkwin in 1919? and the death of Kate Bevan in 1940 it was her son-in-law present at the death on the entry?
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I can only say ‘possibly’. That’s what it looks like but whether they are part of your extended family is hard.
It is that Garins name that is a puzzle.
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I can only say ‘possibly’. That’s what it looks like but whether they are part of your extended family is hard.
It is that Garins name that is a puzzle.
I’ve since spoken to another relative who has confirmed her real name was Donovan so I guess that mystery is solved. Was told she was known to extended family as by Garins (g-air-ins) but had no idea why.
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Well, that’s good and would seem to be right :)
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Well, that’s good and would seem to be right :)
Just need to work out death date for James Donovan and I can work on the next mystery lol thank you for all your well
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Good detective work.
I just looked in a couple of times. It seemed very complicated.
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I can only say ‘possibly’. That’s what it looks like but whether they are part of your extended family is hard.
It is that Garins name that is a puzzle.
I’ve since spoken to another relative who has confirmed her real name was Donovan so I guess that mystery is solved. Was told she was known to extended family as by Garins (g-air-ins) but had no idea why.
Surname variants in BMDs registered in Cork (city). GERAN, GUERIN, GEARON, GEARIN, GEARN.
Some births registered to a Patrick & Margaret Gearon (formerly Donovan), Catherine 1884, Margaret 1884, Catherine 1887. Address Lower George St. Patrick was a sailor. May be red herring. Donovan is a common surname. https://irishgenealogy.ie/en/
Correction. Margaret Gearon's birth was registered 1885.
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That was my first thought too Maiden Stone re the surname - see reply #1
It could be a name going back in the family history but it has not been found in the connections here to date.
Cronin/Garins only have the ‘in’ in common so not much help there.