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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: KimCrawford on Tuesday 31 May 22 05:35 BST (UK)
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Hi My name is Kim Crawford nee Glew and I am having a lot of trouble finding out about William Fenton I call him my ghost.
My ancestor Samuel Fenton came to Australia on the Guildford as a convict,he was married by Banns to Elizabeth Blackshaw on the 13th August 1833 in the parish of Bathurst.
They Has 4 sons.
Samuel Fenton born 21st June1834 Guyong married Ellen Riches died on the 16th October Camboon (Rysltone) buried at Camboon property.(My Line)
James Fenton 20th March 1836 Orange
Christopher Fenton born 11th July 1841 Orange married Mary Ann Bird died 10th November 1900 Hobby's Yard
Then comes William born 26th March 1843 Kings Plains
Samuel SNR died 26th January 1874 Guyong buried Cornish Settlement
In Samuels probate dated 251st July 1874, it only mentions 2 sons Christopher and William
There is no mention of Samuel as we was in the Rylstone area by then, and the other son James, or his wife Elizabeth
I also have a birth certifiacte of William Fenton born 11th April 1859 Broombee (Mudgee)parents Samuel Fenton and Ellen Riches(my line)
and William's Fenton'sdeath certifiacte 18th June buried 20th JUne 1859 Broombie (Mudgee) died from a cold age 2 months 4 days old. parents Samuel Fenton Elizabeth Blackshsaw, My gut feeling is that when Samuel came to registar the death when asked he gave his parents names instaed of his son William's parents names.
I hope this information is useful as I have no more
regards Kim
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Samuel SNR died 26th January 1874 Guyong buried Cornish Settlement
In Samuels probate dated 251st July 1874, it only mentions 2 sons Christopher and William
There is no mention of Samuel as we was in the Rylstone area by then, and the other son James, or his wife Elizabeth
Do you have a copy of Samuel's will or simply the Probate notice?
- The Executors may have been 2 of his sons but that doesn't mean the other sons were deceased or excluded from the will.
A copy of the will may be a benefit.
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I agree that seeing the will might provide useful information.
The probate says “sons of & next of kin”. Is it possible the William Fenton referred to here is not the son William, but next of kin - the grandson William?
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I tend to agree with KimCrawford's theory
The clerk may have said
"Are you the child's father? Name please"
Samuel -"Yes, Samuel Fenton"
Clerk- "Mother ?"
Confused and upset, he gives his own mother's name and her maiden name, thinking that is the information being sought.
Samuel- "Elizabeth Blackshaw"
Sue
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I agree that seeing the will might provide useful information.
But he died Intestate according to that clip
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But he died Intestate according to that clip
Yes, agree. I really should have said the full probate petition which amounts to 20 pages. I can only see the front cover.
Unfortunately, his death certificate is most unhelpful, regarding children or in fact any information.
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Agree with Kim, Sue.
Clerks still sometimes used "thy" instead of "the" until after WWII
It took drop in church attendance and mive from King James Bible to Revised Standard Bible.
JM
JM
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I everyone,
Thankyou for replying to my message, I have the Probate papers that I applied for last year, would u like me to put them on my ancestor's site on ancestry or I could forward to u by e-mail
Kim
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If the deceased infant William was truly the child of Elizabeth nee BLACKSHAW, she would have been 52 when she produced him.
If she was even still living in 1859.
Her convict documents show a birth year of 1807.
She had already given birth to and left behind in England, 2 children when she was transported.
Sue
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Hi everyone,
Just found this, its a marriage certifiacte of a William Fenton not much on it.
Will put the rest of the probate papers up soon on my ancestry site. Been busy with grandchildren my youngest Mia turned 2 today having a party for her
Kim
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Birth: 4492/1857 THOMPSON Mary F parents LACHLAN and EMMA at BATHURST
Her father lived to be around 106. He and Emma had 17 children. 😲
I had a read of as many of her sibling’s death notices that I could find hoping to see a mention of Mary, alas nothing.
Jamjar
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Children of William and Mary:
17097/1875 Elizabeth A ORANGE
7795/1877 William E BATHURST
11366/1879 John Henry CARCOAR
21665/1881 Hilda Mary RYLSTONE
25729/1884 Joseph A GULGONG
16225/1886 Agnes M BOURKE
Jamjar
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An online tree has the parents of William of that marriage certificate as William Fenton and Jane Curry.
Jamjar
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The marriage document you have at reply #9 is from the records at BDM, Sydney....the civil/state record of the marriage.
This couple was married at Trinity Church, Guyong, and church register recorded details given by the people present....bride/groom/minister and witnesses.
This church record was copied to the civil register, and was an incomplete transcription. The state clerk copying the details from the church record only copied some details, and left out a lot of information.
If you access the original, handwritten, records for Trinity Church, Guyong, 1874, it will have the details that, I am suggesting, were not copied to the civil register that is your 1998 document.
Contact a family history society in.....Bathurst?...Orange?.....they might have handled the BDM records for that church.
Or, try Church of England Archives -
http://www.sydneyanglicanarchives.com.au/home.html
and ask if they have the records, and what is the cost for a digital image of the original.
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Hi I put the marriage transcribt up as I am in 2 minds that he isn't my William.
Also I have put on my site on ancestry the rest of Samuel's Probate
Kim
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Hi Kim, do take note of Winenhoe’s comment and suggestions about accessing the church record for full information, to confirm that this is your William.
However, I actually think that marriage transcript that you have posted is probably for the correct man. Usual residence is Gulong which is where his father died just a few weeks earlier, and his brother Christopher is a witness to the marriage. Also his first child is named Elizabeth, perhaps after his mother.
The tree on ancestry claiming that this William Fenton is the son of William and Jane Curry has a number of errors, and no documentation to support this claim, or to support other information which appears problematic. Don’t be put off or swayed by public trees on Ancestry where there is no supporting documentation.
This William Fenton died 8 Sept 1896 at the Sofala Hospital of pneumonia (8 days). The informant at his death was not a relative, but Henry Hinton – recorded as both “Medical attendant” and “Secretary”. His death certificate is a mish-mash of part truths and complete confusion - a good example of how easily incorrect information is recorded by someone who does not know the deceased.
• William Fenton, age 53, occupation miner, born Blayney NSW.
• Father’s name - William Fenton; mother’s maiden name Thompson
• Married at Gooyong at age 22, spouse Mary Ann Thompson
• Children of the marriage: Elizabeth Anne 22, William Edward 20, John Henry 18, Hilda Mary 16, all living.
• Buried 9 Sep 1896, General Sofala, Church of England, Minister Henry Glasson, Witnesses Jas and Joseph Goodlet.
Added: newspaper notice re this death of Fenton in Sofala.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/63933936?searchTerm=Fenton%20AND%20Sofala
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Hi,
Wivenhoe is right, NSW BDM has ONLY a summary.
I have written about those "elusive blanks" in NSW BDM records ON many threads over many years. One now every long thread is part of RChats NSW resources. It has reliable advice to help overcome those blanks.
The late Nick Vine-Hall (best professional genealogist in my option) technique with minor modifications has always worked for me
PLEASE consider it. .... the Official transcript has important info to assist.
JM
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Hi Everyone,
I rang the Bathurst Dicesan yesterday and was talking to Louise, so I e-mailed Louise the transcribt of William Fenton marriage, I am hoping there is information in the church records. Louise said she will let me know.
Kim
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Thanks for the up-date. Here’s hoping you get the additional detail you need.
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Hi Everyone,
Just got a e-mail from Louise from the Bathurst Discose regarding William Fenton.
Enclosed is what Louise sent me, hoping you all can read it.
Kim
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Not possible to read anything on such a tiny sized document.
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Hi Everyone,
Here is William Fenton Marriage
Kim
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Here is the 2nd half
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Hi Still learning how to put stuff on roots, the last bit on the second half off marriage parents names and occupation are blank
Kim