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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Armagh => Topic started by: Looflow on Wednesday 25 May 22 15:48 BST (UK)

Title: Andrew & James ARMSTRONG
Post by: Looflow on Wednesday 25 May 22 15:48 BST (UK)
Hello I am trying to find out about my Armstrong relatives who were in Armagh in the 1800s.  My great-great-great grandfather Andrew Armstrong is listed as a shepherd on his son James' marriage details.  My 88yr old father says the Armstrongs were sheep stealers from Langholm (border rievers) but I do not know if they were the first generation to come over to NI.  I have no address for him and on searching in Griffiths Valuations I found several Andrew Armstrongs but do not know which is the correct one.  Is it possible to find out the name of his wife and any children other than James.  James married Elizabeth Emma Crozier on 1 Jan 1879 in the United Presbyterian Church, Portadown.  I do not know his date of birth it just says 21 which could be older.   They lived in Charles St and had their first 2 children born in Lurgan and later moved to Belfast.  Her father Robert was a weaver.
Title: Re: ANDREW & JAMES ARMSTRONG
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 25 May 22 16:37 BST (UK)
From your earlier thread- Elizabeth Emma Armstrong & children in 1901-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000719036/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Victoria/Upper_Newtownards_Road/1219581/

Youngest child at home in census is William Watson Armstrong age 9 so looks like James died c1891-c1901.

Marriage of Jas. Armstrong to Eliz. Emma Crozier (indexed as Eliza)-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1879/11055/8044399.pdf

Son Joseph Edward Anthony born 1887 and died 1890 (registered as Joseph Edward)-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1887/02552/1944376.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1890/06099/4740772.pdf

Daughter Sarah Lind born 1888-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1889/02488/1923345.pdf

Daughter Sarah Elizabeth born 1890-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1890/02433/1906039.pdf

Twins Minnie & Watson born 1891 and registered by father August 1891-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1891/02381/1888659.pdf
Title: Re: ANDREW & JAMES ARMSTRONG
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 25 May 22 16:42 BST (UK)
Twin Minnie died 1894-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1894/05960/4694128.pdf
Title: Re: ANDREW & JAMES ARMSTRONG
Post by: aghadowey on Wednesday 25 May 22 17:50 BST (UK)
Elizabeth Emma Armstrong in 1911 with some of the children- 10 children/7 living-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Victoria__part_of_/Pomona_Avenue/231562/
Title: Re: ANDREW & JAMES ARMSTRONG
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Wednesday 25 May 22 19:23 BST (UK)

George Armstrong and his wife Sara Jane and two children in 1911 census also at Pomona Avenue.
House 21 in Pomona Avenue (Victoria (part of), Down).
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Victoria__part_of_/Pomona_Avenue/231565/

Marriage 1908 in Belfast.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1908/10041/5652406.pdf

Lennon Wylie index - 1910
Pomona Avenue off Holywood Road
21. Armstrong, Geo., clerk
https://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/nopcomplete1910.htm


Title: Re: Andrew & James ARMSTRONG
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 26 May 22 09:07 BST (UK)
Belfast News-Letter, 29 Sept.1909: ... proprietor, High Street, for having kept his premises open for sale of drink on the night of Sunday, 22nd August. Andrew Armstrong, 15, Pomona Avenue, Belfast, was charged with having been found the premises. Mr. T. J. Campbell (instructed by Mr. Joseph Donnelly) ...
Title: Re: Andrew & James ARMSTRONG
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Thursday 26 May 22 10:42 BST (UK)

Andrew Armstrong, his wife Sarah Jane and son James Crozier in 1911 census.
House 34 in Knocknagoney (Ballyhackamore, Down).
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Ballyhackamore/Knocknagoney/232301/

Marriage in 1910 at Knock Methodist Church.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1910/09972/5625808.pdf

James Crozier Armstrong born 2nd September 1910 at Richmond Lodge, Knocknagoney.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1910/01563/1631167.pdf

Elizabeth McCormick Armstrong born 1912.   MMN Peden
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1912/01484/1604378.pdf

Sarah Jane Armstrong born 1915.   MMN transcribed as Pedan
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1915/01381/1568265.pdf

Annie Florence Armstrong born 1920.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1920/01218/1506989.pdf


Title: Re: Andrew & James ARMSTRONG
Post by: Looflow on Thursday 26 May 22 13:30 BST (UK)
Hello from Newtownards

Thank you so much - my dad was just asking this morning about the son Andrew Armstrong who lived at Knocknagoney, Belfast.  We didn't know about his 2 daughters, so that gives me more to find out.  I am delighted you found the 2 deceased children of James & Eliz Emma (Joseph and Sarah - do you think her second name might be Lena rather than Lind).  I had found out about Minnie as she was the twin sister of my grandfather.

Any luck with James Armstrong's birth/death or his father the shepherd!

Looflow

Title: Re: Andrew & James ARMSTRONG
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Thursday 26 May 22 13:53 BST (UK)

...........the 2 deceased children of James & Eliz Emma (Joseph and Sarah - do you think her second name might be Lena rather than Lind). 


Here's the death record for the Sarah 'Lind' born 1888.
Died February 1890 at Ballyhackamore - named as Emma Lena Jane Armstrong.
 https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1890/06119/4747204.pdf


Title: Re: Andrew & James ARMSTRONG
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Thursday 26 May 22 19:41 BST (UK)
You may have this OP but.....

Marriage of Sarah Elizabeth Armstrong to Walter Ernest Leonard.
9th April 1913 at Mountpottinger Methodist Church.
Her brother John Graham Armstrong one of the witnesses.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1913/09879/5588519.pdf

Birth of a daughter Irene Elizabeth Maitland Leonard in 1914.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1914/01424/1584691.pdf

Walter Ernest Leonard in 1911 census - born in Wales
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Pottinger__part_of_/Mourne_Street/222458/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002185665/


Title: Re: Andrew & James ARMSTRONG
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Friday 27 May 22 12:06 BST (UK)

At reply #3 - John Graham McWha Armstrong in 1911 census with his mother and siblings.

John Graham McWha Armstrong married Sarah Elizabeth Dawson on 4th April 1917 at St Mark's Parish Church, Dundela, Belfast. He was living at 15 Pomona Avenue.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1917/09742/5535012.pdf

Birth of daughter Winifred Eileen Armstrong - 2nd August 1918 at 15 Pomona Avenue.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1918/01274/1528527.pdf

Birth of John Graham McWha Armstrong in April 1886 at Strandtown.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1886/02606/1962550.pdf

Title: Re: Andrew & James ARMSTRONG
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Saturday 28 May 22 17:11 BST (UK)

Youngest son William Watson Armstrong married Annie Florence Crozier on 13th November 1916 at Mountpottinger Methodist Church.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1916/09792/5554733.pdf

Annie Florence Crozier with her grandparents in 1911 census.
House 53 in Balfour Avenue (Cromac, Antrim).
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Cromac/Balfour_Avenue/158420/

Annie Florence Crozier born in 1895 at Union Street, Lurgan.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1895/02232/1841419.pdf


KG

Title: Re: Andrew & James ARMSTRONG
Post by: Looflow on Saturday 28 May 22 17:55 BST (UK)
William Watson Armstrong was my paternal grandfather,  His first wife died and left one son Wesley?James who lived with different relatives most of his life because my grandfather's work took him round Ireland.  He remarried in 1933 - to Ellen Eva Davies in Antrim at the Gasworks where her father worked.  There was a big age gap between them as he was born in 191 and she in 1902 in Co Cavan.  I have only got handwritten details of their marriage.  They had 1 son, my dad William Edwin in 1934.

My grandfather (Watty) also went to work in Leeds with the SWCS and was an ARP during the war. 

Thanks for you help - I am trying to compile a booklet for my father's birthday on 8 June so everything is gratefully accepted.

Looflow

PS:  My son is taking me to see the Cliffs of Moher in the summer.
Title: Re: Andrew & James ARMSTRONG
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Sunday 29 May 22 08:26 BST (UK)

William Watson Armstrong was my paternal grandfather,  His first wife died and left one son Wesley?James who lived with different relatives most of his life because my grandfather's work took him round Ireland.  He remarried in 1933 - to Ellen Eva Davies in Antrim at the Gasworks where her father worked.  There was a big age gap between them as he was born in 191 and she in 1902 in Co Cavan


You're welcome Looflow  :)

Here's some more information for your 8th June presentation.

Annie Florence Armstrong died in 1919.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1919/05164/4424450.pdf

Marriage via GRONI https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/
William Armstrong to Ellen Davies   11th July 1933    Antrim

James Wesley Alderdice Armstrong born 25th August 1917 at 53 Balfour Avenue, Belfast.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1917/01306/1540227.pdf

Ellen Eva Davies born at Cootehill in 1902 (as you may have).   MMN Hands
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1902/01888/1733881a.pdf

Enjoy the 8th June (and the cliffs of Moher).  ;D


KG

Title: Re: Andrew & James ARMSTRONG
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Monday 30 May 22 08:10 BST (UK)

Some more information, Looflow

Your grandmother (Ellen Eva) in 1911 census.
House 27 in Chapel Lane (St.) (Mun0ly) (Cootehill Town, Cavan).
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cavan/Cootehill_Town/Chapel_Lane__St____Mun0ly_/343593/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001722241/

Note your grandmother's two older brothers born in Scotland.

Using ScotlandsPeople https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/, this might be your Davies family in the 1901 census.

DAVIES EDWIN 1901 M    Age 2    570/ 6/ 10    Lochwinnoch    Renfrew
DAVIES WILLIAM 1901 M    Age 7    570/ 6/ 10    Lochwinnoch    Renfrew

You can purchase credits and view the census image for 6 credits (£1.50).


KG

Title: Re: Andrew & James ARMSTRONG
Post by: Looflow on Monday 30 May 22 15:48 BST (UK)
Hi

I got the information from Scotlands People about the 2 older brothers born in Scotland.

On a diffferent note searching records in GRONI I also found details of 2 older sisters of my grandmother.  They died aged 10wks and almost 2yrs.  That solved the mystery of the number of children born on the 1911 census although looking at the actual form the number has been overwritten so could be 8 or 9.

Thanks
Looflow
Title: Re: Andrew & James ARMSTRONG
Post by: Looflow on Monday 30 May 22 15:52 BST (UK)
Hello KG

In relation to Sarah Elizabeth Armstrong who married Walter Leonard, I think they also had another daughter Ernestine born in Wales?

LF
Title: Re: Andrew & James ARMSTRONG
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Monday 30 May 22 17:22 BST (UK)
In relation to Sarah Elizabeth Armstrong who married Walter Leonard, I think they also had another daughter Ernestine born in Wales?

Checked out FreeBMD https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl but can't find a birth for this Ernestine Leonard between 1913 and 1930.   ???

Do you have a year date?


Title: Re: Andrew & James ARMSTRONG
Post by: Looflow on Monday 30 May 22 21:07 BST (UK)
I checked through old research I did in 2009.  I never throw anything ou, t!  I found her name on rootsweb world connect posts by one of her sons.  She was called Nesta Ernestine born in Swansea on 19 Apr 1926, her married name was Roach and she died 31 January 2001.  Sorry to give you that wild goose chase when it has nothing to do with Armagh research. :(
Title: Re: Andrew & James ARMSTRONG
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Tuesday 31 May 22 17:36 BST (UK)
I found her name on rootsweb world connect posts by one of her sons.  She was called Nesta Ernestine born in Swansea on 19 Apr 1926, her married name was Roach and she died 31 January 2001. 

Here's the birth record from FreeBMD but it's 1925. ;)

Births Jun 1925   
Leonard    Nesta E    Armstrong    Swansea    11a   1922