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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Doc1966 on Sunday 22 May 22 20:52 BST (UK)
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I recently came across a monumental inscription on a grave in Gretna, Dumfries, Scotland. It reads:
In memory of John MILLAR cattle dealer who died at Springfield on the 22nd of March 1825 aged 88 years. Of Jane JOHNSTON his spouse who died the 29th of March 1831 aged 81 years. Of Robert his son surgeon on board the ship Liverpool who died on his passage from Old Callabar in Africa on the 25th of Decr 1816 aged 32 years. Of Mary his daughter who died in infancy. Also John MILLAR his son who died the 5th of Novr 1826 aged 50 years. Also Walter MILLAR their son who died the 30th of Octr 1844 aged 60 years.
The person I'm interested in is Robert Millar surgeon aboard the Liverpool.
The only ship called Liverpool I could find is the following HMS Liverpool.
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/HMS_Liverpool_(1814) (https://www.wikiwand.com/en/HMS_Liverpool_(1814))
Liverpool was commissioned under Captain Arthur Farquhar in May 1814. Her first commission was very brief, though. She escorted convoys to Newfoundland, Nova Scotia and Quebec. She then served at the Cape Station before returning to Deptford to be paid off on 3 April 1816. First, though, she captured the French schooner Circonstance on 21 October 1815. Circonstance was carrying 67 slaves.
On 5 Match 1816, Liverpool was driven ashore and severely damaged at Dover, Kent, England. She was later refloated and taken in to The Downs. In 1817 she was laid up at Deptford.
As you can see it was no where near Old Callabar in Africa in 1816.
Does anyone know any websites that can confirm which ship Robert Millar served on, or any details of his career.
Thanks
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Wiki wand has this on
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Liverpool_(1815_ship)
Mike
Use the link and click on the first suggestion.
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Thanks Mazi I'll have a read later.
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The Muster Roles of HMS LIVERPOOL seems to confirm your findings. The last entry was April 1816
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_ep=Liverpool&_cr=adm37&_dss=range&_sd=1816&_ed=1816&_ro=any&_st=adv
There was a naval hospital in Liverpool.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2753217
That said, it may be worth looking at all the above mentioned files but I think it was more likely that Robert Millar was surgeon on a merchant ship named LIVERPOOL which was a regular trader to Africa.
The one owned by Tobin and Co., which was connected to the port of Hull.
https://archive.org/details/HECROSU1818/page/n349/mode/2up
Hull History Centre hold Muster Roles for vessels registered in the Humber ports. It may be worth enquiring there.
https://www.hullhistorycentre.org.uk/research/research-guides/muster-rolls.aspx
regards
SW
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Do you have an image of the headstone?
Can you post it here please.
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Seaweed I think you are right in your thinking. I will look into the links you have given me.
I have not seen the gravestone. My info comes from a PDF document listing all gravestones in Gretna old church. It's on page 33 of the document below.
http://www.longtown19.co.uk/index_htm_files/Gretna%20Old%20Church.pdf (http://www.longtown19.co.uk/index_htm_files/Gretna%20Old%20Church.pdf)
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I think you need to see the inscription. Are you able to get an image?
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This is a detailed inscription, and decipherable after.....what?...nearly two hundred years. It records names, ages, dates of death, family relationships, manner of death, location of death, circumstances of death...all decipherable.
It would need to be on good quality stone?...or, what?...marble?...a stone that cost money.
I think the inscription is worth closer consideration, and I have listed the information in chronological order for the six deaths detailed -
* Of Robert his son surgeon on board the ship Liverpool who died on his passage from Old Callabar in Africa on the 25th of Decr 1816 aged 32 years.
*In memory of John MILLAR cattle dealer who died at Springfield on the 22nd of March 1825 aged 88 years.
*Also John MILLAR his son who died the 5th of Novr 1826 aged 50 years.
* Of Jane JOHNSTON his spouse who died the 29th of March 1831 aged 81 years.
* Also Walter MILLAR their son who died the 30th of Octr 1844 aged 60 years.
* Of Mary his daughter who died in infancy
Do a google search to find in The Scots magazine, 1825 -
"March 23 at Springfield, near Gretna Green, aged 88, Mr John Millar, snr, and father of the firm of Messrs Millar, the extensive cattle-dealers of the Border, and had crossed the Solway Frith more than two thousand times, before the erection of the metal bridge at Garristown"
Use Britishnewspaperarchives.co.uk, search, 1825 .....Springfield near Gretna.......
to find death notice in six publications, Perthshire Courier, Durham Chronicle, The Scots Magazine, Cumberland Pacquet and Ware's Whitehaven Advertiser, Caledonian Mercury, Inverness Courier.
John MILLAR, died 1825, is a prominent businessman, and known extensively through Scotland and England.
Me....thinking aloud -
The headstone would be put in place on the occasion of the death of family patriarch, John MILLAR, 1825, and he is accounted for as -
* John MILLAR cattle dealer who died at Springfield on the 22nd of March 1825 aged 88 years.
This is the same wording found in newspaper death notices. John MILLAR, a man who would have money, and standing in the business community, that is all that is recorded on his headstone?.
Inscription for Robert MILLAR is added 1825 or later , and has a great amount of detail.
Later deaths on the headstone are basic records....name, rank, serial number...nothing more.
Why is there so much detail about Robert MILLAR, died 1816.
Many people died at sea in those days. Sail over the horizon....coastal traffic....crossing oceans...and there was a chance that you might not come back.
There is too much information about Robert MILLAR, died 1816.
The ship he travelled on when he died would not be worth mentioning unless the name Robert MILLAR...and..."Liverpool" were identifiers of the man. Robert MILLAR was the builder/owner/master of the "Liverpool".
The particular voyage of the "Liverpool" would be recorded on the headstone if it was a significant voyage, and understood as such by the public. If that voyage of the "Liverpool" was associated with....what?...mutiny by the crew?...attacked by pirates?......great loss of life from disease?.....then including this detail would be relevant.
There is too much information about Robert MILLAR when compared with details about the other deaths.
This headstone might be of recent creation/placement, with the inscription being an account of a recent researcher's work.
An image might give a clue to the age of the headstone.
If it is the work of a recent researcher, then Robert MILLAR, died 1816, would seem to be the person of interest to that researcher. Cemetery records would identify the person who put the headstone in place. Contact the Church/cemetery to see if you can contact the person who, as I am suggesting, is the recent researcher of your Robert MILLAR.
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You could look at the Lloyds Register of Shipping archives which are online and free.
There are volumes for 1816 of Owners and of Underwriters. There are a few "Liverpool" craft.
I dont think the Casualty lists go back that far.
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Further to my last post, I have found that Tobin and Co were a leading shipping company in Liverpool who's main business was concentrated on the African trade.
Logically, why would a ship bearing the name LIVERPOOL be registered in Hull?
If you don't get a positive result from Hull History Centre try an email to Liverpool Maritime Museum
maritime@liverpoolmuseums.org.uk
If they can confirm the ship LIVERPOOL was in fact registered in Liverpool. You can then go on to look at the Muster Roles at TNA Kew. A visit would be the best way to view.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4064441
see also
https://www.hslc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/142-6-Lynn.pdf
SW