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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Clear on Wednesday 18 May 22 18:27 BST (UK)

Title: John Josiah Sadler, Cabinet Maker
Post by: Clear on Wednesday 18 May 22 18:27 BST (UK)
I'm hoping to confirm John Josiah Sadler's wife from at least two sources.  John Josiah Sadler often seems confused with a John Sadler of similar occupation.

John Josiah Sadler's daughter Annetta Ann Sadler married Joseph Elisha on 7 March 1870 at St. John of Jerusalem Church, South Hackney.

Clarissa Maria Siely has been suggested as John Josiah Sadler's wife but she has two other husbands too according to Ancestry (Henry Juchau and Edward Grey)

Very confused, can you help ?
Title: Re: John Josiah Sadler, Cabinet Maker
Post by: sgf28 on Wednesday 18 May 22 19:36 BST (UK)
Is this the family?

1851 Census Fox Street, Bethnal Green

John Sadlar,34, cabinet maker, born Mile End Old Town
Maria, 28, born Norwich St Peters
Clara, 6, Shoreditch
Anetta, 4, Mile End New Town
Mary Ann, 1, Mile End
Title: Re: John Josiah Sadler, Cabinet Maker
Post by: Clear on Wednesday 18 May 22 19:53 BST (UK)
It could be the right family, first names of the children are same as other sources.. Thanks.
Title: Re: John Josiah Sadler, Cabinet Maker
Post by: Comberton on Wednesday 18 May 22 20:06 BST (UK)
Related thread
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=862140.msg7314972#msg7314972
Title: Re: John Josiah Sadler, Cabinet Maker
Post by: softly softly on Wednesday 18 May 22 21:04 BST (UK)
Is this the family?

1851 Census Fox Street, Bethnal Green

John Sadlar,34, cabinet maker, born Mile End Old Town
Maria, 28, born Norwich St Peters
Clara, 6, Shoreditch
Anetta, 4, Mile End New Town
Mary Ann, 1, Mile End

Mary Ann birth registration

SADLER, MARY  ANN     mother,s maiden name SIELY 
GRO Reference: 1850  M Quarter in BETHNAL GREEN  Volume 02  Page 73

Another daughter born 1847 

SADLER, CLARISSA  MARIA     SIELY 
GRO Reference: 1845  M Quarter in THE SHOREDITCH DISTRICT  Volume 02

John
Title: Re: John Josiah Sadler, Cabinet Maker
Post by: softly softly on Wednesday 18 May 22 21:56 BST (UK)
Am I reading your post wrong.

John Josiah Sadler baptised 10.12.1815--died aged 54 Shoreditch in 1871

John Josiah Sadler a bachelor married Clarissa Maria Siely a spinster 13.1.1866. John's occupation Cabinet maker. His father Robert Sadler occupation Cabinet maker. Clarissa's father John Siely occupation Excise Officer.
Both of full age

Clarissa Maria Sadler widow marries Henry Juchan 5th Sept 1878. Her father John Siely occ Excise Officer.

This poses the issue of quite a few Sadler children born between 1840-50 with mmn Siely.

John

John
Title: Re: John Josiah Sadler, Cabinet Maker
Post by: softly softly on Wednesday 18 May 22 22:21 BST (UK)
With regard to Clarissa having another husband Edward Gray is unless other's can show otherwise a falsehood probably taken from info on the 1891 census.

On Ancestry her name is recorded as CLARASA MCHAM, clearly incorrect if you view the image. Living with her is a grand daughter Louisa GRAY aged 12. She is probably the daughter of one of Clarissa's own daughter's as per the below birth registration

GRAY, LOUISA  MARY ANN    mother's maiden name SADLER 
GRO Reference: 1878  J Quarter in SHOREDITCH  Volume 01C  Page 118

John
Title: Re: John Josiah Sadler, Cabinet Maker
Post by: Clear on Wednesday 18 May 22 22:29 BST (UK)
Thanks for your help
Title: Re: John Josiah Sadler, Cabinet Maker
Post by: softly softly on Thursday 19 May 22 10:06 BST (UK)
Quote

With regard to Clarissa having another husband Edward Gray is unless other's can show otherwise a falsehood probably taken from info on the 1891 census.

Louisa appears with her parents on 1881 census ref 401 61 23.

Edward Gray 29 occ Blacksmith
Eliza Ann Gray 28  (she is the daughter of John Josiah Sadler & Clarissa)
Eliza Gray 5
Edward 3
Louisa 1

Louisa Gray born 3.4.1879, baptised 27.8.1879 daughter of  Edward & Eliza occ Blacksmith

Louisa goes on to marry Thomas Helier Whiting 25.12.1899 recording her father as EDWIN Gray occ Blacksmith

I think this dispells the fact that Clarissa ever married an Edward Gray.

John
Title: Re: John Josiah Sadler, Cabinet Maker
Post by: softly softly on Thursday 19 May 22 19:51 BST (UK)
Hope the below is of intereset, I have enjoyed trying to find this family.

Known children of John Josiah Sadler
1. Mary Ann Clarissa Sadler dq 1837  mmn Siely  died 1840
2. John Sadler  1840 mmn Siely
3. Maria Jane sq 1842  mmn Siely
4. Clarissa Maria Sadler mq 1845 mmn Siely---married 2.4.1871 Frederick Charles Ball.
5.SIELY, ANNETA  MARIA     mothers maiden name SADLER 
GRO Reference: 1847  J Quarter in WHITECHAPEL UNION  Volume 02  Page 555
  Married Joseph Elisha 1870 Annetta died aged 87 in 1933
6 Mary Ann (Jane) mq 1850  mmn Siely --married James Thomas Wilks 18.10.1873.
  Mary Ann was witness at the marriage of Annetta to Joseph Elisha
7. Louisa (Julia) Sadler sq 1854 mmn Siely. Married John Gray 2.6.1874.
    Daughter Louisa Mary Ann Gray baptised 2.6.1878  see next post


Wonder if Edward Gray and John Gray were brothers.

John & Maria previously found in 1851 census

1861 ref 237 9 38
John is recorded on Ancestry as Jacob SUDLER

1871 ref 441 17 29

John
Title: Re: John Josiah Sadler, Cabinet Maker
Post by: softly softly on Thursday 19 May 22 20:30 BST (UK)
With regard to Clarissa having another husband Edward Gray is unless other's can show otherwise a falsehood probably taken from info on the 1891 census.

On Ancestry her name is recorded as CLARASA MCHAM, clearly incorrect if you view the image. Living with her is a grand daughter Louisa GRAY aged 12. She is probably the daughter of one of Clarissa's own daughter's as per the below birth registration

GRAY, LOUISA  MARY ANN    mother's maiden name SADLER 
GRO Reference: 1878  J Quarter in SHOREDITCH  Volume 01C  Page 118

Louisa Gray is the daughter of John Gray and Louisa Sadler (born 1854)

John
Title: Re: John Josiah Sadler, Cabinet Maker
Post by: jonwarrn on Thursday 19 May 22 20:31 BST (UK)
Related thread
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=862140.msg7314972#msg7314972

From just a couple of days ago.
Just a page, but a lot of the Sadler family info on here is on there.
If the OP had a problem with anything, they could have said so on the original thread?
Title: Re: John Josiah Sadler, Cabinet Maker
Post by: softly softly on Thursday 19 May 22 20:37 BST (UK)
Thanks jonw65, at least my searching was not to far out.

John
Title: Re: John Josiah Sadler, Cabinet Maker
Post by: jonwarrn on Thursday 19 May 22 21:09 BST (UK)
Known children of John Josiah Sadler
1. Mary Ann Clarissa Sadler dq 1837  mmn Siely  died 1840
2. John Sadler  1840 mmn Siely
3. Maria Jane sq 1842  mmn Siely

You've done brilliantly well as always, John.
With those extra births of children for John Josiah and Clarissa Maria you have found, they should be together in 1841.
Title: Re: John Josiah Sadler, Cabinet Maker
Post by: softly softly on Friday 20 May 22 08:10 BST (UK)
Many thanks jonw65 for your generous comments. I felt like going into the corner and wearing the D hat after reading your post. However, onwards and upwards and it spurred me on to find them in 1841.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQVD-K2Y

John Sadler 25 occ Carver born in county
Maria 20 Not born in county
Thomas Sadler 20 born in county  occ--Chair Maker

Cannot find a baptism though for Thomas with Robert & Jane as parents as I thought he might be a brother.
Did find a Thomas Sadler "chairmaker" in 1851 ref 1542 523 18

John
Title: Re: John Josiah Sadler, Cabinet Maker
Post by: Clear on Friday 20 May 22 11:35 BST (UK)
Thank you for your help. It looks like John Josiah Sadler's fifth listed child Annetta Maria Siely (mmn Sadler) was adopted from a Siely sibling who died ?. Annetta born in Whitechapel Union Workhouse under the Poor Law. and later adopted by John Josiah Sadler and Clarissa Maria Siely ? Annetta later married Joseph Elisha and had a large family of cab drivers !  Thank you all again for your expert help, you are much more adept at this than me.
Title: Re: John Josiah Sadler, Cabinet Maker
Post by: Montaigne on Tuesday 14 March 23 17:18 GMT (UK)
For what it's worth, Thomas Helier Whiting was my Grandfather.