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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Laois (Queens) => Topic started by: AlanO on Sunday 04 September 05 14:39 BST (UK)

Title: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: AlanO on Sunday 04 September 05 14:39 BST (UK)
In 1849, my GGGrandfather, Joseph Day, was sentenced to 7 years transportation for malicious assault, (TR9, P139). Family notes and letters tell us that he was executed in Ireland after escaping from prison. We now believe that he was sent to Maryborough Prison, Laoghis, and I was hoping to find any record of his escape and subsequent death, whether legal execution or at the hands of soldiers or police as an escapee.
 
Facts at hand indicate that he would have escaped around June 1850. Can anyone suggest where I might find his trial record and any report of a prison breakout?

AlanO

Melbourne
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Pat Reid on Wednesday 07 September 05 07:21 BST (UK)
Alan:
I have been digging around without too much luck. However, I did come across something of interest. I  found out who your GGGrandfather assaulted and why! 

"On 30 October, 1848, Daniel, Robert, William and James Phelan of Garran, together with several other tenants were served with ejectment notices by John Price, agent for Lady Warnford. Michael Kennedy, caretaker of the estate, caused several houses of the evicted tenants to be demolished, but permitted the Phelans to remain in their homes provided they declared for the landlord. The Phelans refused to accept the terms of this agreement, because it involved the seizure of their crops in lieu of arrears of rent. On 17 March, 1849, Thomas Maher, then caretaker of the estate, summoned John Nolan, brother-in-law of James Phelan, to Rathdowney Petty Sessions for cattle trespass, was assaulted by a party of men on his way home. On 12 July at Maryborough Assizes, Joseph Day and John Delaney were convicted for the assault on Maher and sentenced to seven years' transportation. John Nolan was sentenced to twelve months' imprisonment for having incited the assault on Maher. (C.S.O. Registered Papers (Outrage), 1849/1579 : Walsh p167) "

Here is link to site:   http://homepage.mac.com/john.maher/Maher/borris.htm

Good luck!

Pat
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: AlanO on Wednesday 07 September 05 08:00 BST (UK)
Pat, thank you very much for that information. We have searched for years and had little to show for it...this site is amazing for the amount of help it generates from the members.

 A second cousin has been researching the family for 20 years and is a member of The Genealogical Society of Victoria (GSV) and part of his report follows:
 
 
The GSV library have a copy of the Irish Transportation Records, and using the information on the printout for Joseph Day, I was able to access the film of the original hand written lists of prisoners from Queens Co convicted in 1849. These were the lists transcribed to produce the records you found. From this I was able to see that of 21 on that page,Joseph was one of nine tried by "The Lord Chief Justice Doherty", between 12th July and the end of the year. Perhaps more significantly, Joseph and one other, John Delany, were listed consecutively as being tried and convicted on the same day for malicious assault, and were both given seven years transportation.
 
It is a bit of a long shot, but I thought it possible that they were tried and convicted for the same incident, and that any trial details for one would give similar details for the other. As John Delany was listed as being transported on the "Robert Small", I followed his trail and found that he was transported to WA, arriving in Fremantle on 16 August 1853. His convict number is given as 2224 and he gained his ticket of leave on 15 December 1853. From these details we may be able to learn more about the details of his charge and the court proceedings. I will try to follow this up. By the way he died in 1892 in Newcastle and was unmarried. You never know, we may learn something about this Joseph Day by going sideways for a bit.
 


We now have just one more piece of the puzzle to go and we have heard rumours of a breakout in 1850, but have lost contact with the person who told us about it.

As they say - one door closes and another one slams in your face.

Thanks again Pat.
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Christopher on Monday 11 September 06 17:11 BST (UK)
 Click  (http://www.askaboutireland.ie/show_image_gallery.do?institution_id=42&topic_id=20) to see pictures of Laois including H. M. Prison Maryborough and the Prison Cottages.
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Elliebob on Tuesday 12 September 06 09:23 BST (UK)
So pleased to have found this link Christopher - we have just been to Dublin and whilst there discovered that my husband's grandfather (a trade warder) went to Maryborough Prison from Mountjoy in 1902.  The family, including father-in-law lived in the prison cottages, so great to have access to a photo.

We found the information from the General Prison Board correspondence register in the National Archives.

Ellen
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Saturday 22 June 19 18:16 BST (UK)
Ellen,
I'm new to this board and was excited to learn that your husband's grandfather must have been a neighbor and co-worker of my great grandfather, Robert James (R.J.) Smith who lived in the Maryborough Gaol Cottages from at least 1893 to at least 1911, probably longer. The birth registrations of 6 of his children list the prison cottages on Dublin Road as their place of birth.
I have 2 questions at this point:
1) The original link to the photo of the cottages no longer works. Do you know how I can see it?
2) Do you know how I can verify his work role at the prison and when he retired or left his work there?
He listed "prison storekeeper" in some birth registrations and "prison clerk" in other birth registrations. I think a clerk was a deputy governor, but I'm not certain of that.

Also, I assume he also worked at the Mountjoy prison from 1886-1889, since his occupation during that time was prison warder and his residence was 1 minute's walk from Mountjoy prison. Perhaps he and your husband's grandfather worked together there as well.
Thanks so much for any direction you or any other Roots chatters can give me about this.
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Saturday 22 June 19 20:50 BST (UK)
Maryborough Prison is now Portlaoise Prison
and Maryborough town is also now Portlaoise, there is a old photo of the prison here but I don't know if the cottages are
https://historicalpicturearchive.com/picture-categories/portlaoise-and-maryborough/
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Saturday 22 June 19 20:55 BST (UK)
Cottages
http://www.portlaoisepictures.com/vanishedm.htm
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Saturday 22 June 19 21:10 BST (UK)
Sorry forgot to say Welcome to RootsChat.

Did your Robert James have a son WJ Smith who married in Kansas USA in 1908?
There is a notice of the marriage in the Leister Express give the father as James Smith 1st Class Storekeeper.

Looks good
1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Queen_s_Co_/Maryborough_Urban/Dublin_Street/1649388/
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Queen_s_Co_/Maryborough_Urban/Borris__Little__Part_of_Dublin_Street_/791996/
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Elliebob on Sunday 23 June 19 11:58 BST (UK)
Hi

Welcome to Rootschat.  I think it is quite likely that your g-grandfather knew my father in law's family.  My fil and his brothers were all born in the early 1890s while he was at Mountjoy.  We know, from the prison correspondence register which is held at the Irish Record Office in Dublin, that he went to Maryborough after 1901.  By 1911 they were in Belfast and Robert was a trade warder at Crumlin Road.  They remained in Belfast after retirement and from there the 3 brothers all joined the British Army.  The prison cottages at both Mountjoy and Portlaiose have been demolished.  The Mountjoy cottages were demolished to build the women's prison. 
Records for prison staff are hard to access -  we were told (although it was a few years ago now) that there is only the correspondence register accessible for research.
I am guessing that you are in the States but  contact with http://www.nationalarchives.ie/ may be helpful.  Good luck with your research - Ellen
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Sunday 23 June 19 12:58 BST (UK)
Sinann,

Thank you so much for the terrific photos and for the information.
I do have the 1901 and 1911 censuses which lists the family's addresses as 18 Dublin Street and "House 5 in Borris Little, part of Dublin Street". Although I haven't been able to find an historical street map, I assume these were addresses of the prison cottages (?)
I had no photo of the cottages as you sent and am very thrilled to see it. What a treasure. Where did you find it? (I don't think it's on the link with the other photos.)
I was also thrilled to find out there's an article in the Leister Express about my family. Yes, WJ Smith was RJ's eldest son and he was in the U.S.. I'm curious to know how you located this article. There's clearly a lot of information that I can access and I'm excited about learning how to do this. I'd also like to see an image of the article if that's possible.
Thanks again for your much-appreciated help, Sinann!
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Sunday 23 June 19 13:08 BST (UK)
Sinann,

I see from your link that John Dunne has a treasure-trove of photos posted on his site portlaoisepictures.com and in his book as well. I'm glad to know about this site and the book.



Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Sunday 23 June 19 13:24 BST (UK)
Ellen,

Thanks for your reply. I was sorry to hear that the prison cottages at both Mountjoy and Maryborough no longer exist. Do you happen to know the address of your fil's family in Dublin? In 1886, my family lived at 6 Philsboro Ave in N. Dublin and in 1889 they lived at 18 Avondale Ave. My G grandfather's occupation was prison warder then, so I assume he worked at Mountjoy, which was close to those addresses. Perhaps those addresses were of prison cottages (?)

Although I was sorry to learn that there wasn't more information available about prison staff, I was glad to know about the prison correspondence register, which I will try to locate through the National Archives.

BTW, if you haven't seen it before, there's a fascinating diploma dissertation about the prison written by Matt Keenan.
http://www.hh-gs.com/UCCDiplomaGenealogy/Matthew_Keenan-Queens_County_Gaols-2017.pdf
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Elliebob on Sunday 23 June 19 14:55 BST (UK)
Hi Sinann

My fil was born at 46 Mountjoy Cottages, as was his younger brother.  The elder one was born at  39 Innisfallen Parade which was close by the prison.

Ellen
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Elliebob on Sunday 23 June 19 14:59 BST (UK)
Sinann,  Thanks too for the link to the dissertation.  It is fairly recent and I've not seen it before.  Just glancing through it I see that prisoners were transferred from Mountjoy to Maryborough and it is likely that is why Bob's grandfather went there too.  Thanks again
Ellen
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Sunday 23 June 19 15:15 BST (UK)
Getting a little confused about who posted what there, Ellen.

Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Sunday 23 June 19 15:36 BST (UK)
Borris Little is the name of the townland, the prison is also in Borris Little

You can use GeoHive to see old maps, unfortunately I can't post direct links although I have been assured they are working on introducing this feature.
http://map.geohive.ie/mapviewer.html
Search for Portlaoise, than use Base Information and Mapping, choose the Historic 25" map, the prison as you look at the map is on the right of the town, you can look at the other old maps as well.
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Sunday 23 June 19 15:50 BST (UK)

 .....and "House 5 in Borris Little, part of Dublin Street". 


Welcome to RootsChat   :)

Borris Little townland, Borris Civil Parish.
https://www.townlands.ie/laois/maryborough-east/borris/borris-little/

KG
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Sunday 23 June 19 16:11 BST (UK)
There is a death of a William Boulger in 1908, daughter Sarah H is the informant, he is listed as a Civil Servant
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1908/05488/4537056.pdf

Possible son Edmund
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014915/005014915_00317.pdf
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Sunday 23 June 19 16:22 BST (UK)
An Edmund married 1888 and his father William is an Inspector of buildings for the Board of Works
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1888/10776/5929926.pdf

This is starting to fit with the information you have that he was an architect.

Assuming I have the correct people
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Sunday 23 June 19 17:13 BST (UK)
Yes, Sinann. You absolutely have the right family. Thank you.

Sarah Boulger promised her father that she'd stay in Ireland until he died and would ensure that he was buried as a protestant (His wife was Catholic). Sarah was on a ship to the US shortly after her father died (I have the ship's record). Thanks to you, we know that she and William Smith married soon after her arrival in the U.S.

I'm excited to open the document you have about William Boulger's employment. Many thanks!!
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Sunday 23 June 19 17:24 BST (UK)
It's only a marriage cert.

I wanted to see if I could find anything more in the newspapers about him but the site is playing up on me, I'll try later on a different computer.
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Sunday 23 June 19 20:29 BST (UK)
No luck with the newspapers
This looks like William and family in 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Queen_s_Co_/Maryborough_Urban/Stradbally_Road/1649697/
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Sunday 23 June 19 20:45 BST (UK)
Have you got all the children of William Boulger?
Could Georgina be one
She married Richard Tyndall in 1882
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1882/10976/8012300.pdf
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Monday 24 June 19 00:49 BST (UK)
Sinann,

You've found so much great info. I had found that Georgina was a sibling (or perhaps a half sibling?) of Sarah Boulger (Bolger) Smith. I've wondered if William Boulger might have been married before and perhaps Georgina was from his first marriage (????)

Ancestry.com has a Boulger family tree which lists a number of siblings to Georgina, Edmund (Edward?) and Sarah.

Georgina married a number of times and ended up in the U.S. I noticed that Edmund was a witness at Georgina's wedding and that it took place in a Church of Ireland church.

The 1901 census shows the divide in the family over religion. All of the males are listed as Church of Ireland members, while all of the females are listed as Catholic Church members. For some reason, Georgina and Sarah don't fit that pattern.

Fascinating stuff!
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Monday 24 June 19 12:11 BST (UK)
Does the tree give a name for the children's mother?
The older children appear to be born before Civil Registration of birth in 1864.
There is a marriage in Wicklow of a William Boulger to Eliza Byrne in 1857
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QGVD-HMV5
but the image of the cert isn't online yet and may not be for some time the last update to Irish Genealogy was very recent.
I can't see Sarah's birth cert or Hariet of the census or a second marriage for William.
That said there is a Sarah Jane Boulger to a William Boulger and Eliza Byrne in 1875, in Johnstown which is in Kildare but close to the border with Dublin, the father in this case is listed as a Carpenter.
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Monday 24 June 19 15:57 BST (UK)
Sarah H Boulger is on The Statue of Liberty & Ellis site
She travelled on the Oceanic from Queenstown (Cobh) arriving Nov 11 1908
She give her mother as Elizabeth Boulger 27 ? Quay Maryborough.
Sarah is travelling to her sister, can't make out the name but she lives as 229 West 123rd St New York
Think Sarah gives her occupation as Servant.
Age 28
Place of Birth Dublin
https://www.libertyellisfoundation.org/passenger-result
Going to see if I can figure out the mother's address, why would Maryborough have a Quay!

I'm wondering now if it should be Essex Quay Dublin
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Monday 24 June 19 17:00 BST (UK)

Alice Maud Boulger married Edward J Thompson in 1897.
Father William Boulger - Clerk of Works.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1897/10443/5802965.pdf

Eileen Maud Thompson - birth 15th December 1897
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1898/02097/1799150.pdf

KG
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Monday 24 June 19 17:03 BST (UK)

Eileen with her aunt, uncle and grandmother in 1911 Irish Census.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Rathmines___Rathgar_West/Rathmines_Upper/56533/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000154772/

KG

Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Monday 24 June 19 17:13 BST (UK)
Sinann,

Sarah's mother was Elizabeth Bryne Boulger and the marriage in Co Wicklow in 1857 is almost definitely hers.

Siblings were Edmund (B: 1859), Georgiana (B: abt 1861),  Hariet (Harriet) (B: betw 1871 & 1873),  Henry (B: 1879).

I did have the ship's manifest documenting Sarah's immigration to the U.S.,  but only page one and not page 2. Page 2 has her place of birth which I have never known before. I assumed it was in Marlborough, not Dublin. That's great to know. I've never been able to find her birth registration.

I think the name of the  person listed on or 2 that she was visiting on New York was her sister, Georgiana (Georgina) whose last name then was Scardefield.

Of course, three weeks later she was getting married in Kansas to William Smith.

Her mother's address listed on pg 1 of the document is 27 Essex Quay in Maryborough. 

It was great getting page 2 of this document. Many thanks, Sinann!
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Monday 24 June 19 17:32 BST (UK)
Kiltaglassan,

This is great. I never knew there was another sibling, Alice Maud Boulger. Also, I'd spent hours trying to find what happened to Elizabeth between the time of her husband's death and her death, but I couldn't find her. There she is with Harriet and her granddaughter in the 1911 census. Very exciting. Thank you so much!
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Monday 24 June 19 17:34 BST (UK)

You're very welcome   ;D
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Monday 24 June 19 17:43 BST (UK)
There is no Essex Quay in Maryborough, I don't think there is any kind of Quay they barely have a decent river.

I think I saw a Reid marriage but it didn't click at the time, I could  be wrong I've looked at so many by now.

Still slowly coming together.
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Monday 24 June 19 17:48 BST (UK)


I think I saw a Reid marriage but it didn't click at the time, I could  be wrong I've looked at so many by now.



Marriage 1st June 1903
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1903/10237/5725466.pdf

KG
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Monday 24 June 19 18:07 BST (UK)
Sinann,

You're right again. Harriett married James Reid and Elizabeth was living with them in Dublin in 1911.

I'm, also confused about the 1908 family address given as 27 Essex Quay in Maryborough. There is a 27 Essex Quay in Dublin, however. Also confusing is that only three months earlier, in August of 1908, Elizabeth's husband William died at 13 Ranelagh Avenue in Rathmines /Dublin.

In 1901, the family was living at house 8 on Stradabally Road in Maryborough. In 1911, Elizabeth was living with her daughter, Harriet, and family in Dublin.
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: hallmark on Monday 24 June 19 18:16 BST (UK)
Is

Name   Ellen Bolger
Date of Birth   21 November 1865
Group Registration ID   7360323
SR District/Reg Area   Callan
Sex   Female
Mother's Birth Surname   Byrne

one of yours?

Can't post Link for some reason!
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Monday 24 June 19 18:17 BST (UK)
Yesss William and Elizabeth also married in the RC church, sadly no parent's names
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634038#page/92/mode/1up
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Monday 24 June 19 18:26 BST (UK)
Sinann,

You're right again. Harriett married James Reid and Elizabeth was living with them in Dublin in 1911.

I'm, also confused about the 1908 family address given as 27 Essex Quay in Maryborough. There is a 27 Essex Quay in Dublin, however. Also confusing is that only three months earlier, in August of 1908, Elizabeth's husband William died at 13 Ranelagh Avenue in Rathmines /Dublin.

In 1901, the family was living at house 8 on Stradabally Road in Maryborough. In 1911, Elizabeth was living with her daughter, Harriet, and family in Dublin.

I think Maryborough is an error on the part of the person writing up the record, Sarah says her last residence is Maryborough and I think they assumed this was where her mother lived, it's likely Elizabeth and William had moved to Dublin, moving around their children's homes, we still can't be sure we have found all their children.
If Elizabeth did manage to have children from c1859 to c1879, which is fairly normal for the time than there is possibly several more children.
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: hallmark on Monday 24 June 19 18:31 BST (UK)
This Search on https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp

should find all Civil Reg for them in Dublin

one can narrow them down by decades etc in 1800's/1900's or Marriages etc as required.
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Monday 24 June 19 18:39 BST (UK)
Looks like Georgian was Maria Georgian 22 Nov 1861, not baptised until the following year.
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.mary%27s-pro-cath_mf_1858-1865_ba_0394

Elizabeth 20 Dec 1868
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.michans_mf_1865-1888_ba_0011

Edward Joseph Oct 1859
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.mary%27s-pro-cath_mf_1858-1865_ba_0213

Mary Harrett 1867 no image
There is a load of them here, now I have the mother's name I'm on a roll.
Scratch that looks like there is an image as
Mary Hariott Jan 1867
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.michans_mf_1865-1888_ba_0009

Alicia Teresa 15 April 1864
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.mary%27s-pro-cath_mf_1858-1865_ba_0625

William born 2 Dec 1857 baptised 1859
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.mary%27s-pro-cath_mf_1858-1865_ba_0153

Jonannes 8 Jan 1872
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st_lawrence_mf_1853-1880_ba_0670

It should be possible to find some of their birth certs now

If you want to look up these baptisms use https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/
choose the More Search Options to put in the parents names
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Monday 24 June 19 19:04 BST (UK)
Great sleuthing, Sinann   8)

Alicia Boulger, 23rd April 1864  #299
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03617/2335012.pdf

KG

Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Monday 24 June 19 19:13 BST (UK)
Great sleuthing, Sinann   8)

Alicia Boulger, 23rd April 1864  #299
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03617/2335012.pdf

KG



Father William is a Carpenter which is the same occupation of the Sarah Jane born in Johnstown.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1875/03081/2129791.pdf
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Monday 24 June 19 19:22 BST (UK)
That's great. It makes sense that William and Elizabeth would be married in the R.C. Church.

I've been trying to get the church records for a long time and have been unsuccessful. This is great.

The name of the husband of Elizabeth Byrne and the father to some of these children (wow -  ton of kids!) is not William. Is the name listed the Latin name for William? Are these people definitely the same people or are there 2 Elizabeth Byrnes, one married to William and the other married to Guillaume ?
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Monday 24 June 19 19:34 BST (UK)
First names are in Latin,
Think they are all the same family but the civil certs would help, not all will have civil certs of course.
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: hallmark on Monday 24 June 19 19:37 BST (UK)
That's great. It makes sense that William and Elizabeth would be married in the R.C. Church.

I've been trying to get the church records for a long time and have been unsuccessful. This is great.

The name of the husband of Elizabeth Byrne and the father to some of these children (wow -  ton of kids!) is not William. Is the name listed the Latin name for William? Are these people definitely the same people or are there 2 Elizabeth Byrnes, one married to William and the other married to Guillaume ?


https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/  would be the site

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/church-records/about/what-church-records-are-available-online
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Monday 24 June 19 19:42 BST (UK)
Jonannes 8 Jan 1872
is John date slightly different but that's not unusual
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1872/03262
/2195686.pdf
again father is a carpenter
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Monday 24 June 19 19:42 BST (UK)
Okay, I think I answered my own question. In Alicia Teresa's church record, her father is listed as Guillaume (or something like that) and while in her civil record, her father is listed as William.

Cannot believe they had that many kids!
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Monday 24 June 19 20:08 BST (UK)
Hyperlink at #45 showing 'Not Found'
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1872/03262/2195686.pdf

KG
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Monday 24 June 19 20:16 BST (UK)
Kiltaglassen,

Thanks for the link to John's birth. Not sure what you mean by hyperlink at #45 showing not found
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Monday 24 June 19 20:52 BST (UK)
My link at reply #45
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Monday 24 June 19 21:14 BST (UK)
Time for a tidy up to make it all easier to see.
William Boulger married Elizabeth Byrne 1857

Children so far
William 1857
Edward Joseph 1859 (assuming Edmund is the same person) married Frances Harvey 1888
Maria Georgina 1861 Married Richard Tyndall 1882, has more than one marriage.
Alice 1864 married Edward Thompson 1897
Mary Harriett 1867 married James Reid 1903
Elizabeth 1868
John 1872
Sarah 1875 married WJ Smith 1908

That could be all the children, no major gaps there, still it's only 8, you'd expect 10 or 11

William the father died 1908
Mother Elizabeth still alive in 1911.

Is that everything so far?
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Monday 24 June 19 21:29 BST (UK)
John married Matilda Roe 1902
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1902/10276/5740105.pdf

Wife in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Galway/Oughterard/Fough_West__Main_St_/471500/

This looks like John in 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Galway/Galway_South_Urban/Kilcorrey/1374891/
Clerk in Bk of Ireland not Ch of Ireland
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Tuesday 25 June 19 12:03 BST (UK)
Really helpful "cleaning up," Sineann. Thanks!

I'm going to go back and double-check all the docs that have been uncovered regarding children, but here is some additional information I have about William and Elizabeth.

James Boulger B: 1799 D: 1882 Son: William Boulger

William Boulger B: abt 1837 (Co Wicklow) Married Eliza Byrne 1857 D: 1908

John Byrne Daughter: Elizabeth Byrne

Elizabeth Byrne B: abt 1843 (Co Wicklow) Married William Boulger 1857 D: 12 Dec 1923
    (Buried in Glasnevin [Prospect] Cemetery)

Need to go back to notes on the following, but...
There may be both an Alicia Teresa and an Alice Maud (?)
Henry William - born in ~ 1879
Sarah Helena - I have her birth date as 1882 or 1883 - but she may have lied about her age (Imagine that! Ha!)


Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Tuesday 25 June 19 12:28 BST (UK)


Need to go back to notes on the following, but...
There may be both an Alicia Teresa and an Alice Maud (?)
Henry William - born in ~ 1879
Sarah Helena - I have her birth date as 1882 or 1883 - but she may have lied about her age (Imagine that! Ha!)


Henry Charles born 21st April 1878   #54
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1878/02967/2086940.pdf

KG
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Tuesday 25 June 19 14:07 BST (UK)
Kiltaglassen,

Bingo! Great job on Henry.

Also, I just put together the pieces on what you found about John. Really interesting. Apparently he moved to Co Galway by 1901 to work and then married there in 1902. In 1911, his wife, Matilda, and his 3 kids are living with her brother. Although the document lists her status as "married," where is John?

Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Tuesday 25 June 19 14:23 BST (UK)
Kiltaglassen,

Sorry. Somehow missed your entry about an Ellen Bolger and just now saw it. IF I'm putting the pieces together right, looks like that Ellen's father was "John" rather than "William."
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Tuesday 25 June 19 14:40 BST (UK)

Kiltaglassen,

Sorry. Somehow missed your entry about an Ellen Bolger and just now saw it. IF I'm putting the pieces together right, looks like that Ellen's father was "John" rather than "William."


I think you mean hallmark!

KG
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Tuesday 25 June 19 14:58 BST (UK)
Great sleuthing, Sinann   8)

Alicia Boulger, 23rd April 1864  #299
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03617/2335012.pdf

KG



Father William is a Carpenter which is the same occupation of the Sarah Jane born in Johnstown.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1875/03081/2129791.pdf

Kiltaglass and Sinann,

You're both great sleuths!

Sarah Jane's place of birth (9 Sept 1875) in Johnstown, Co Kildare, is the same as Henry Charles' place of birth. Henry Charles father's occupation is Clerk of Works while Sarah Jane's father's occupation is Carpenter. Looks like Alicia (Alice Maud), Henry Charles, Sarah Jane (Helena?) and all the others we've identified are all in the same family. William's occupation is sometimes listed as carpenter and sometimes listed as clerk of works.

It is still a little confusing to me why her immigration record says she was born in Dublin about 1880. (Says she was 28 years old in 1908.)

Looks like the family moved from Dublin to Johnstown sometime between 1872 and 1875. Not sure when they moved to Maryborough, but they were there (without Sarah) in 1901. William died in Rathmines / Dublin in 1908 and Elizabeth was in Dublin in 1911.
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Tuesday 25 June 19 15:01 BST (UK)

Kiltaglassen,

Sorry. Somehow missed your entry about an Ellen Bolger and just now saw it. IF I'm putting the pieces together right, looks like that Ellen's father was "John" rather than "William."


I think you mean hallmark!

KG

You're right, Kiltaglassen!  :o
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Tuesday 25 June 19 15:13 BST (UK)

Quote
William's occupation is sometimes listed as carpenter and sometimes listed as clerk of works.

It would be a natural progression for a house carpenter to be elevated to the position of clerk of works. A promotion for him!

KG
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Tuesday 25 June 19 16:37 BST (UK)
Just adding the new finds.
Time for a tidy up to make it all easier to see.
William Boulger married Elizabeth Byrne 1857

Children so far
William 1857
Edward Joseph 1859 (assuming Edmund is the same person) married Frances Harvey 1888
Maria Georgina 1861 Married Richard Tyndall 1882, has more than one marriage.
Alice 1864 married Edward Thompson 1897
Mary Harriett 1867 married James Reid 1903
Elizabeth 1868
John 1872 Married Matilda Roe 1902
Sarah 1875 married WJ Smith 1908
Henry Charles 1878

That could be all the children, no major gaps there, still it's only 9, you'd expect 10 or 11

William the father died 1908
Mother Elizabeth still alive in 1911.

Is that everything so far?

Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Wednesday 26 June 19 16:42 BST (UK)
Sinann & Kiltaglassan

I think that is everything so far. I've been trying to find info about Elizabeth after 1911 to add to this list, especially her death date, but haven't been able to verify any leads.

Until I do, thanks again for all your incredible help!
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 26 June 19 18:23 BST (UK)
I was trying to find Elizabeth as well, there is a marriage to a Joseph Boothe, if I remember his name correctly but there is no occupation for the father so difficult to know if it's her.
It wouldn't surprise me if she, like her siblings, has changed her name, she may have a second name we don't know about and is using that.

I also tried the newspapers again for William as a carpenter but no joy.
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Wednesday 26 June 19 19:40 BST (UK)
Sinann,

When you talked about her father's occupation and changing her name, were you referring to Sarah or Elizabeth?

Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 26 June 19 20:38 BST (UK)
Elizabeth.
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Wednesday 26 June 19 22:08 BST (UK)
Sinann,

Got it...the Elizabeth born in 1868, not her mother. I've been focusing on her mother who lived with her sister Harriett (Boulger) Reid in 1911. Would love to know what happened to Elizabeth Sr. As faithful as she was, you'd think her death would turn up in the Catholic records, but I haven't been able to confirm anything. I did find an Elizabeth who died in 1923, but I can't confirm that it's my family's Elizabeth.  :-\

Would also love to find out what happened to her daughter, Elizabeth. With such a big family, there's no shortage of rocks to turn. More fun stuff!
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 26 June 19 23:26 BST (UK)
Catholic church registers weren't very good at keeping burial records and many deaths weren't registered so it can be very difficult to find a death.
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 26 June 19 23:31 BST (UK)
I can see an Elizabeth Bolger died in 1923 in Dublin but she is the widow of a bootmaker.

Could she have gone to America to some of her daughters.
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Thursday 27 June 19 11:43 BST (UK)
Sinann,

Good job on finding the occupation of the E. who died in 1923. Initially I thought it was our Elizabeth, so that's good to know.

As far as I know, only Georgiana and Sarah immigrated to the U.S. I don't think Elizabeth followed anyone to the U.S., but I could be wrong. Not a bad idea to double-check that.
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Thursday 27 June 19 12:53 BST (UK)
Meant the occupation of the husband of the Elizabeth who died in 1923. Guess she could have made boots herself, but.....oh well... another topic for another time. Ha!
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Thursday 27 June 19 12:56 BST (UK)

As far as I know, only Georgiana and Sarah immigrated to the U.S. I don't think Elizabeth followed anyone to the U.S., but I could be wrong.


Might she have gone to England? Maybe to a relative in the Greater London area.

There is a death on https://www.freebmd.org.uk/ of an Elizabeth Boulger aged 86 who died in 1922 (1911 Irish census said she was 75).

Boulger    Elizabeth    86    Richmond S.    2a   588

You would need to purchase a PDF death certificate from GRO England/Wales, to find out.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp
The cost is £7.00.

KG

Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Sinann on Thursday 27 June 19 13:48 BST (UK)
It's likely Elizabeth's death was just never registered.
Where is her husband William buried? Any chance she's with him.


Just notice Kiltaglassan's post, looks like a possible.
Keeping in mind we have no idea where her sons went.
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Thursday 27 June 19 15:14 BST (UK)
Looks like John went to Co Galway in 1901. Don't know whether he ever returned or not.

If I remember previously-viewed docs right, Edmund was a policeman in Dublin his entire career. Think he died there too.
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Thursday 27 June 19 16:31 BST (UK)


If I remember previously-viewed docs right, Edmund was a policeman in Dublin his entire career. Think he died there too.


Edmund was a chief clerk in the police court in the 1901 & 1911 censuses i.e. a civil servant.

He died on the 3rd March 1951 at 'Wolverton', Barnhill Road, Dalkey. The informant was his son E J? Boulger (Edmund Joseph?) of South Ruislip, Middlesex.     #234

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1951/04513/4187556.pdf

KG

Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Thursday 27 June 19 16:36 BST (UK)


 The informant was his son E J? Boulger (Edmund Joseph?) of South Ruislip, Middlesex.     #234



It's Edmund Francis, born 1892.    #420
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1892/02338/1874624.pdf



Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Thursday 27 June 19 16:58 BST (UK)
Good info about Edmund, KG. Thanks!

Can't find doc about Elizabeth Boulger's death in London that you referenced, but trying to do everything with my phone today which makes it more difficult.
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Thursday 27 June 19 17:25 BST (UK)

Deaths Jan-Mar 1963   
BOULGER    EDMUND F    70    UXBRIDGE    5F   196

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/
Boulger Edmund Francis of 3 Hardy Avenue, South Ruislip, Middlesex died 12 March 1963 at Harefield Hospital, Middlesex - Administration (with Will) London 1 May 1964 to Aubrey Edmund Verdun Boulger, engineer. £4005.

KG
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Saturday 17 August 19 14:30 BST (UK)
Gosh, Kiltaglassen, just realized that I never thanked you for all the additional info you sent on Edmund. I've gotten back to focus on Robert James Smith (William James Smith's father), but do want to pick up my hunt for more on Sarah Jane Helena (Boulger) Smith soon.
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Saturday 17 August 19 15:24 BST (UK)
Maybe I'm blind, but I cannot find where Sinann or Kiltaglassen had found links to the birth of Sara Jane Boulger (father: William/ mother: Eliza Byrne) in Johnstown, Co Kildare in 1875 (Registrar District Naas / Rathmore).

Both a Catholic church record and civil record were found, but I cannot locate either of them (even by going to the suggested primary sites)....guess I'm both blind and a slow learner!

Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Saturday 17 August 19 15:41 BST (UK)


Maybe I'm blind, but I cannot find where Sinann or Kiltaglassen had found links to the birth of Sara Jane Boulger (father: William/ mother: Eliza Byrne) in Johnstown, Co Kildare in 1875 (Registrar District Naas / Rathmore).

Both a Catholic church record and civil record were found, but I cannot locate either of them (even by going to the suggested primary sites)....guess I'm both blind and a slow learner!


See Sinann's reply #41   #168

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1875/03081/2129791.pdf

KG

Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 17 August 19 15:44 BST (UK)


They are quite easy to Search for on

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp


e.g. the following will find it




Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Saturday 17 August 19 15:47 BST (UK)
Perfect. Many thanks, KG!
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Saturday 17 August 19 15:51 BST (UK)
Terrific. Thanks, Hallmark!
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 17 August 19 15:59 BST (UK)

The Irish Government BDM website

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp

has 3 stages to it as per attachment

even if you only put  Boulger  Naas in you get  163 results.

those with Returns Page No  don't have Images yet but one can check back every now and then to see if any have been updated even once every 6 months!


If one knows the names from a Marriage e.g.  "about 1870"  just put Name in, Tick Marriage box and use Year Range 1868 to 1872  leaving District  blank if unknown!

The Catcha and Sign in page are all part of process the Irish Government BDM website and do not take anyone to any other website!


Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 17 August 19 16:02 BST (UK)


What civil-records are online ??

See    https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/what-civil-records-are-on-line 
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: luckytobeirish on Sunday 18 August 19 11:05 BST (UK)
Thanks so much for taking time to add these images, Hallmark. This will be a big help with all my research. I think I might have been putting in too many and too specific details.
Title: Re: Maryborough Prison??
Post by: cdt1955 on Monday 26 May 25 17:35 BST (UK)
I just came across this conversation and if anyone is still tracking it, I am the great-great grandson of William Boulger and Elizabeth Byrne.  My great-grandmother is Alice Maud Boulger.  I have quite a bit of information on the family if anyone wants to continue this thread.  Thank you for all of the wonderful information in this thread.  It helps me confirm what I have found previously.  I am located in the US.  if anyone needs information, I am happy to share.