RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Elan on Friday 06 May 22 08:20 BST (UK)
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Hi All
I am looking for any BDM's in the above area for the surname - Jackison/Jackeson/Jackson circa 1875-1900. Particularly first names John William Father and Janet ?? mother. Child - Arthur Albert or Francis Albert.
Thank you in advance
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Use this site -
https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search/births?2
to search for Jack*n births with father John...mother Janet....1875 to 1900.
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Thankyou Wivenhoe I have but no luck.
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What causes you to hope that there might be Jackison/Jackeson/Jackson births to find....1875-1900 to John William and Janet ?? named Arthur Albert or Francis Albert.
You are researching the origins of .....who?
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Arthur Albert or Francis Albert was born in Molong NSW according to his marriage and death certificate on or around 1887.
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If you have a marriage certificate for the man whose origins you are researching -
Can you please list all the details on the document. Everything please...don't leave out anything.
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Hi,
When searching through NSW bdm online, (or through compiled indexes of NSW bdm events on various websites) it can be important to remember:
1. Less is more ....
2. Any bdm could be registered at ANY deputy registrars office, NO requirement to attend the nearest one.
3. In the years AFTER civil registration started in NSW (1856) a) MARRIAGES were registered by the official performing the ceremony, b) DEATHS by the Funeral director AFTER he had been issued with interim burial order issued by police magistrate or coroner OR had medicos certificate certifying death and causes. c) It was only BIRTHS that were required to be registered by ordinary folk,
So if looking for a birth 1856-1918 (1918 being when NSW bdm started to move away from oral registration towards pro forma application forms) it can be sensible to recall parents of new babies may not be aware of their formal duty to register a birth. Not everyone could read, write, (compulsory secular education commenced 1878ish).
NSW districts were not same geographical area as Police districts, nor Pastoral districts nor civil country/parish, nor Church districts, nor local government areas.
Hence rule 1. Less is more. Put less info in NSW bdm dialogue box, study index results, pause, think, PERHAPS seek partial official transcripts.
Rhetorical questions....
Is your person the eldest child.... if so, is he listed on younger siblings birth certs? Does mum's maiden name on younger sibling's b.c. help validate the marriage cert info. If he is youngest, could he be indexed under a different surname perhaps .... could he be ex-nup of eldest sister, being raised by his granddparents...
Who were the midwives/witnesses on younger siblings births ..... family perhaps
What occupation for dad on those birth certs or marriage
Have you searched Greville Post Office directories 1872, 1875 etc...or similar directories
Have you searched 1870s 1880s electoral rolls for NSW
Have you looked for baptism record for this person...
JM edited for poor spelling .. one finger typing on e reader, sorry.
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Didn't he call himself Francis Albert Charles JACKISON in NZ? Where have you seen him as Arthur Albert?
Debra :)
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Hi Wivenhoe, Majm and Dundee
I am going to try and post the certs I have to answer your questions hope it works
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Who made the cross outs and wrote other names on the d.c.
Those alterations do not seem to have been endorsed by the NZ bdm.... so
Please, please, you really cannot rely on those changed details.
Perhaps you should consider asking NZ bdm to re-issue their document. If so, printout is the sensible option.
JM.
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Who were the witnesses to the 1925 marriage. I am on e reader, tiny screen, and cannot see their names, sorry
JM
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Thanks
The wedding Witnesses are Irene Joy Bainedell?? hard to read and Adam T or F Byers both from Auckland
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Is this your man?
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19261112.2.158?query=Francis+jackison&snippet=true
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Who made the cross outs and wrote other names on the d.c.
Those alterations do not seem to have been endorsed by the NZ bdm.... so
Please, please, you really cannot rely on those changed details.
Perhaps you should consider asking NZ bdm to re-issue their document. If so, printout is the sensible option.
JM.
:)
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Is this the marriage -
NZ BDM marriage
1925/3314 CODD Bertha marr. JACKISON Francis Albert Charles
1927/6831 JORGENSEN Sarah Matilda Caroline marr. JACKSON Francis Albert Charles
Ancestry NZ Electoral Roll 1928
JACKISON Frank 12a Servia Street blacksmith
JACKISON Sarah Matilda Caroline 12a Servia Street married
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What information is on his marriage certificate from his second marriage in 1927?
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Thankyou Neale yes it is. The whole marriage clearly difficult.
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Neale I haven’t got the next marriage cert yet - was hoping for answers on the ones I have got. Do you think it’s worth spending the $ and getting the second one in? Clearly on his death cert 2nd wife had no idea about his parents
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My own connections with NZ researchings is not 1920s, BUT I know that the NZ moderator does look ups on the records for Intention To Marry ...ITMs. I am not sure if the ITMs for the 1920s are readily available, or archived, or indexed etc but I encourage you to consider contacting Spades, the NZ moderator as ITMs may well include useful info for your quest.
Did you try my suggestions for searching for the Jackison family on NSW 1870s and 1880s ... including searching NSW bdm?
JM
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Thanks all for the suggestions I will keep plugging away.
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The surname JACKISON in Australia/New Zealand is not a name in common use by anyone except Francis and his family. He has either made it up or it is a variation on another name, possibly Nordic?
Does the certificate have original signatures? Did he sign confidently?
I would get a printout of the second marriage to see if he gives the same information about his parents. It wasn't a long time, but if he had invented the names he might not have remembered what he said the first time. It is always good to see if someone is consistent with their information.
The death is indexed by the Registry as Arthur Albert Francis so the correction was an official one. You have cropped the document but it should have a notation of when the correction was made, probably somewhere in the margin or on the bottom.
The intention to marry as mentioned by JM should give a "length of residence" and it would be good to know how long he says he has been residing in Auckland. You can ask on the NZ board for someone to do that for you.
Debra :)
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Do you know what he looked like? Was he a tall man, 6ft plus, blue eyes?
Debra :)
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Thanks Dundee I will get in that extra cert and there is a signature at the bottom. Will keep you all posted.
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https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers
this is the link to NZ newspapers.. putting JACKISON in the search box will bring up details of his divorce from Bertha Codd and also his time as an official for the Waterside Worker Union.
Just some extra background that you may not have.
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Shume - very grateful for your response. I do have that info. Hes an interesting man. our family have no past stories or information of. I will keep you all posted. Thank you for taking the time.
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At reply #8, marriage record, 1925...
Francis Albert Charles JACKISON can name his father to be John William JACKISON, but cannot give an occupation for his father? Even something general such as labourer. He does not know his father's occupation.
Francis Albert Charles JACKISON - do you see him naming a daughter Janet after his own mother?
Of course there are other people to name your children after, but use of his own mother's name might suggest what degree of connection he has to his mother.
Or does he know names of his parents because he has been told ie he has little/no personal knowledge of them, only received knowledge?
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At reply # 14 Frank JACKISON is a blacksmith at Auckland for the 1928 Electoral Roll.
Lyttleton Times 7 Jul 1908 p1
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/LT19080707.2.3.6?
there is F JACKSON, blacksmith, in NZ at 1908. The name, JACKSON, and the occupation are hardly rare, but if your Frank is in NZ at 1908, and born ~ 1889, does he enlist for WW1, or reserves, in NZ?
Is he still in Australia and enlisting for WW1? As JACKSON etc, or something other?
He is the WW1 generation. Was he a WW1 veteran?
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Wivenhoe - good points - to my knowledge there is no daughter named Janet. Still waiting on the 2nd marriage cert that Dundee suggested I should get. Have got in touch with Spades re ITM. Hopefully can do it myself through archives. Will keep you posted. :)
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Dundee, Majm, Neale196, Wivenhoe.
So have got the second marriage cert in ( still waiting for the 2 ITMs)
This marriage cert says - Father- William Jackison - blacksmith - Mother Margaret Jackison nee Wright.
The parent information especially Mother is completely different.
Any advise?
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You have this marriage record? -
1927/6831 JORGENSEN Sarah Matilda Caroline marr. JACKSON Francis Albert Charles
Can you please list all the information on the document.....everything.......names, dates, addresses, ages, occupations, church, witnesses.....everything.
And the signature for Francis JACKSON.......a good match?.
No reason not to be, but useful to account for this.
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Ok all so here is the second marriage cert. Hopefully it comes through.
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So as you can see he is true to his place of birth also ish his fathers name- John William on one cert and Willian on the other - BUT - the mothers details change.???
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"So as you can see"
I cannot read any of it. Can you please list all the information that you see on the document.
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No, cannot see anything on that tiny size.
Please post again in a size which can be read.
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Perhaps if you scan as a pdf, it will be easier to read. (( add, When you attach it. :) to a new post, with new file name. ))
JM
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Hope this is better
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No, not much better, I’m afraid. Still just a blur.
Can you please list all the information that you see on the document.
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Ok here is the written info:
Francis Albert Charles Jackison 40 builder divorced b- molong NSW F- William Jackison, Blacksmith M- Margaret Jackison nee Wright
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I have downliaded the latest version. I can zoom into various parts.
He is an honest man, gives age as 40, born Molong N.S.W., divorce absolute with that effective date, etc.
So the question becomes :
Why can we NOT find his NSW birth rego. :)
Some answers include
:) registered under a different name
:) not registered
:) registered at Molong Court House, but the quarterly/annual return was not submitted and/or not procesed by Reg General at Sydney HQ ( until after WWI there was NOT any admin rule at HQ to check WHY no returns from any rural district.
:) in mid 1970s Reg General dept insisted on ALL the original ledger books being recalled from every deputy registrar. Some rural senior officers ummm took no action to comply.
:) when EDP System initially set up, if a card mangled itself, noone knew how to recognise what data list
I could add many more "excuses" ... but we need solutions.
I am on e reader, tiny screen.... 1 finger typing.
My ancient rellies suggest:
Use LESS is more technique on NSW on lline birth search.
Use Jack* for surname.
Search one year at a time and one bdm district at a time.
So Molong is one diiatrict. Look also at Wellington; Forbes; Coiwra; Orange; Mudgee; Bathurst; West Macquarie; any Central West locality with a Court House during the ten years before and after he was born.
Also consider he may have Aboriginal heritage at a grandparent or earlier generation.
My ancient rellies include retired NSW bdm senior bods, they will clear their committments for early next week to give your eyes a rest.
JM sorry for possible typos, por grammar and silly spelling. GOOD LUCK.
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Uf you "know" month of year born, not just year, use that to help limit the search (scroll down, it works similar to NZ bdm online date searching
JM
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Thanks Majm for that wonderful advise.
I dont know of the areas around Molong so I will do what you suggest. Two things however bother me.
1 - why say on the first marriage cert your mother was Janet and you didnt know what occupation your father had and then on the next marriage cert TWO years later its a different story.
2 - I cannot find him in any either Australia or NZ WW1 records he was clearly of the right age.
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Re 1st marriage info.
Remember that those details are NOT written by the bride or groom (on that document).
Remember that when you married, the clergy or officiating celerant pointed to where you were to sign, gave you the pen, and their arm blocked your view of what was written... YOU were NOT asked to read this contract and check that the details are correct... like everyone else YOU TRUSTED the celebrant to accurately record the info you had provided. Often the printed form provides for the celebrant to write the details later, (that day/week) ... before then sending it thriough to the HQ Admin for the BDM.
Clergy are human, they rely on their own diary notes, they can make errors. Bridegroom are human, they rely on their own memories, and they make mistakes.
I was born in NSW 1947. Some of my uncles include CofE clergy. Hmmmm.... best I button my lip. ;D
The info on NZBDM marriages in 1920's is likely "informant driven" so unlikely for celebrant to demand positive proof of ID but importantly, ordinary folk treated clergy as totally trustworthty, to be obeyed, and significant community leaders. Clergy automatically had superior knowledge ahead of just about everyone, especially ordinary folk.
Context in time, location, practices, expectations, living standards and education all are very important.
JM
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WWI.
Australians were all volunteers. NO conscripts. 2 referendums, each time conscription rejected. Also, some active discrimination meant very difficult for those with any hint of darker NON Anglo complexions to enlist ... so ummm ... Arbitrary decisions or passive non actions meant ignorance reigned, and many were not wanted in AIF by the majority of decision making bods.
JM
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Is JACKSON Francis Albert Charles your direct ancestor?
Did you know him when you were a child/young adult, or is your knowledge of him limited to what older family members have told you? Did you visit his house?
The 1927 marriage certificate....what is it?......registrar's copy #2?
All the handwriting is the same....no signatures.
Where is the original civil record?
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Both marriage certs are printouts of the original through nzbdm it’s the cheapest option.
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He was a big man around 6ft plus. With big hands. And Caucasian. He left his second marriage for a few years and lived on his own because his wife’s sister moved in with them and he didn’t like her so moved out.
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So I have both ITM's in and they tell me nothing apart from the wife of the first marriage hadnt heard from her previous husband as alive for seven years but there is a Papers past article on him miraculously appearing after she remarried - Jackison. Any suggestion about where to from here??
:) :) :)
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Hi All thought I would touch base and let you know I found Arthur Albert Francis Jackison ( Traynor) He was registered in Dubbo under Traynor. Had married in 1913 had 7 children then up and left. In 1924 there were 6 warrants out for his arrest for child support. He disappeared. Only to turn up in NZ under a completely different name and married twice more. I found a photo of his eldest son online and he looks exactly like his father. The only constant information I had to go on was his place of birth and the name change on the death cert. So I took your advice and trolled though all the births in NSW around that time and found him!
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Do you know what he looked like? Was he a tall man, 6ft plus, blue eyes?
Debra :)
Thought he might be, good job ;D
Debra :)