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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Jason Jase on Wednesday 04 May 22 01:53 BST (UK)
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I need help with a brick wall on my tree Mary Fortt (nee Fisk)
born 1795 / 1796 Watchet, Somerset, England?
She married William Fortt (17961880) from Bath Somerset.
No one and Ancestry or any other sites have tried has any information about where she came from parents, siblings or pictures of her.
I have seen a few people post a William Fisk as the father with no proof or information on him. A William Fisk was at their wedding that is all I can find about him.
Shortly after Mary's death William Fortt married a Ruth Fisk (nee James)
Ruth's husband Thomas Samuel Fisk (born About. 1791 Orsett, Essex, England) committed suicide in Paglesham, Essex 1843. I am wondering if Thomas is related to Mary Fortt (nee Fisk) in some way?
I have made no movement on this and need help.
I have loads of information about Mary's children but nothing further up about her before marriage
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What year did she marry?
Does the marriage give any information at all ie was she a spinster, of this parish, who were the witnesses.
Presume it was pre certificate times.
When did she die?
Presume she doesnt appear on any census with birth place.
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Anc trees link to a marriage
Mary Fisk Spinster - William Fortt Bachelor
6 Oct 1818 Marriage Bath, St Michael, Somerset
Mary was of the parish of Walcot - Witnesses William Fisk and Sophia Larstell???
Kay
Added in 1841 she is shown as not born in the Somerset
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When did she die?
Presume she doesnt appear on any census with birth place.
She died 11 MAY 1846 Bath, Somerset, England
I have her in the 1841 England Census
Somerset
St Michael
ALL District 2
on the Census it on only asks were were you born in the Same county where on her line it is marked "N" (no)
What is meant by County in England? (I am first generation Canadian)
The census gave a space for people to indicate if they were were born in Scotland, Ireland or a foreign country which was left blank. That would mean she was born in England I assume.
She is my 3rd Great grandmother
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County in England is like a district for example Somerset is a County, Dorset, Wiltshire, Yorkshire, Lancashire etc.
If the census was taken in Somerset and there is an N for No it means she wasn't born in Somerset.
Later census have a space for place of birth so it's always more difficult if someone died before 1851 as you just get a Yes or No.
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There is a Mary Fisk baptised 26 Dec 1798 Parish of Stowmarket County of Suffolk
father William Fisk
mother Susan Chapman Fisk
There's a Susan Fisk death age 91 in the same area in 1858 but don't know if the same lady.
Death for William Fisk age 72 same area 1838.
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I also found her on https://www.fiskes.co.uk/ as born in 17-- it had less information than I had on her, but I did find the right one after some frustration.
Mary was 45 in 1841 most people post her date of birth as 1796. The census only asked for an age at the time of the census. That being the case in 1841 she could of been 44 turned 45 or 45 turning 46.
Since I don't have her birth day or the exact date of the census in the are I can figure out the exact year.
If a skilled genealogist out there has any bright Ideas that would be great on ancestry alone Mary Fortt Nee Fisk is a brick-wall on over 20 trees.
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https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/222693590/mary-fortt
I think this is her ???
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On the 1841 census adult ages were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years.
So anyone from 25-29 would have 25 for example.
Give or take, so again makes it more difficult for us.
The 1841 census was taken on the night of 6 June.
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There is a Mary Fisk baptised 26 Dec 1798 Parish of Stowmarket County of Suffolk
father William Fisk
mother Susan Chapman Fisk
There's a Susan Fisk death age 91 in the same area in 1858 but don't know if the same lady.
Death for William Fisk age 72 same area 1838.
I will make a floating tree in Ancestry on this info to see what come up
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I am rather sure you got it... :)
The Mary Fisk linked to this William Fisk had a document attached to her. It was a Very fancy looking marriage contract of sorts with wax stamps of approval from William Fisk the father and William Fortt the Husband.
Thank you I am 90% sure this is right... Mary and William a such common names I may be a bit paranoid.
Mary's mother was listed Susan Chapman Fisk but Susan's father was listed as Thomas Chapman so Susan hyphenated her last name. Which I was told was a thing way back when.
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Have you noticed the living nextdoor to Mary and William on the 1841 census are a Sophia Fisk age 25 and a Francis Fisk age 60 neither born in county.
Wondering if they are related. Struggling to find anything else on these two
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Apparently, Mary's father was a Robert:
The Ipswich Journal 23 May 1846
13th inst, at Bath, aged 52 years, Mary, the beloved wife of Mr Fortt, and youngest daughter of the late Mr. Robert Risk, formerly of Badingham, farmer.
The date on the Findagrave entry mentioned in an earlier post would be the burial date. Her son William is in the same grave.
The following may or may not be the same Robert:
Bury and Norwich Post 25 April 1827
On the 6th inst. at Framlingham, aged 74, Elizabeth, wife of Mr. Robert Fisk, formerly of Badingham, farmer.
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Defintely related somehow
1861 - Milsom St, Bath
All relationships are to an unnamed head of the household who is abroad
Emma E Fortt 34 - daughter
William Fortt 29
Emily W Fortt 23
Sophia Fisk 53 b Rendlesham, Suffolk, niece. Confectioner's assistant
Mary Bucknell 33
Mary Hill 25
Elizabeth Genett 22
Ellen Gregory 16
RG 9; 1687; 110; 2;
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Have you searched for wills?
Somerset or Somersetshire has Anglo-Saxon origins.
Counties were the basis for the governance of England and later for Wales.
Shires/counties were administrative areas. Some shires were based on ancient kingdoms.
Each county sent 2 representatives to Parliament from medieval times. Knight of the shire was the formal title for a member of what became the English Parliament.
Each county had to provide a militia, comprising a certain number of soldiers in wartime. A county militia was a successor of the shire fyrds in the Anglo-Saxon era.
A sheriff (from Old English shire-reeve) was a county official with administrative functions. English counties still have High Sheriffs.
It would be rare to find a picture of someone who died in 1840s.
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The Mary Fisk linked to this William Fisk had a document attached to her. It was a Very fancy looking marriage contract of sorts with wax stamps of approval from William Fisk the father and William Fortt the Husband.
The William Fisk on this document could well be a brother/uncle. No where does it say it is Mary's father.
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Have you noticed the living nextdoor to Mary and William on the 1841 census are a Sophia Fisk age 25 and a Francis Fisk age 60 neither born in county.
Wondering if they are related. Struggling to find anything else on these two
I have seen the William and Sophia Fisk thing. Ruth Fisk nee Jame William Fortt's 2nd wife had a Niece named Sophia Fisk that attended her wedding. Since Sophia's last name is Fisk I assume she is biologically related to a brother of her first Husband Thomas Samuel Fisk born (ABT. 1791 Orsett, Essex, England died by suicide in OCTOBER 1843 Paglesham, Essex, England) that is an assumption though. I don't know if this is William Fisk is the same William that is her father or this is the same Sophia Fisk but my assumption is yes.
My other Assumption is Thomas Samuel Fisk is related somehow to to Mary Fortt nee Fisk
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This is looking suggestive that Francis Fisk is Mary's older brother, and possibly father of Sophia (or uncle if not)
Francis Fisk
Baptism 9 Jul 1780 Ditchingham, Norfolk
Father: Robert Fisk
Mother: Elizabeth Fisk
Death?
FISK, FRANCIS
Age 68
Q1 1849
PLOMESGATE Volume 12 Page 297
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Have you noticed the living nextdoor to Mary and William on the 1841 census are a Sophia Fisk age 25 and a Francis Fisk age 60 neither born in county.
Wondering if they are related. Struggling to find anything else on these two
I have seen the William and Sophia Fisk thing. Ruth Fisk nee Jame William Fortt's 2nd wife had a Niece named Sophia Fisk that attended her wedding. Since Sophia's last name is Fisk I assume she is biologically related to a brother of her first Husband Thomas Samuel Fisk born (ABT. 1791 Orsett, Essex, England died by suicide in OCTOBER 1843 Paglesham, Essex, England) that is an assumption though. I don't know if this is William Fisk is the same William that is her father or this is the same Sophia Fisk but my assumption is yes.
My other Assumption is Thomas Samuel Fisk is related somehow to to Mary Fortt nee Fisk
Sophia is still appearing in the 1841 census with William Fortt and wife Mary. Ruth isn't in the picture yet.....
More digging required!
On a side note, the Francis Fisk in the '41 states he was a confectioner.
The Norfolk Chronicle 03 February 1827 has a blip about a Francis Fisk, confectioner, being bound over for two years to keep the peace with his wife Mary.
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Apparently, Mary's father was a Robert:
The Ipswich Journal 23 May 1846
13th inst, at Bath, aged 52 years, Mary, the beloved wife of Mr Fortt, and youngest daughter of the late Mr. Robert Risk, formerly of Badingham, farmer.
The date on the Findagrave entry mentioned in an earlier post would be the burial date. Her son William is in the same grave.
The following may or may not be the same Robert:
Bury and Norwich Post 25 April 1827
On the 6th inst. at Framlingham, aged 74, Elizabeth, wife of Mr. Robert Fisk, formerly of Badingham, farmer.
I have looked at this and the "Badingham" location came up as a possible location of Mary.
I have the marriage cert / Contract between William Fortt bachelor and Mary Fisk spinster of st Micheal parish bath somerset and approved by a William Fisk. It is a rather strange document and hard to read old English legal language in cursive. I carefully looked through is and it doesn't state that William Fisk is Mary's father though. If Robert Fisk died before 1818 it would make sense to some degree. So dang maybe Robert is the father maybe William???
Where can I view the The Ipswich Journal 23 May 1846 ???
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Sophia and William Fisk next door in 1841 must be related some how since they worked in the same profession as William Fortt.
the William Fisk 1752 Wrentham, Suffolk, England which I looking very promising doesn't have a record of having a daughter Mary. That doesn't mean This William isn't the father because Mary Fortt nee Fisk is born 3 years after William Fisk's 2nd son.
Robert Fisk I am trying to find something on him now with not much luck yet.
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this got confusing fast
Per the UK Fisk / Fiske web page Thomas Fisk's parents were Robert Fisk and Elizabeth Read yet on ancestry this couple has no record of having a child named Thomas or Mary
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Death?
FISK, FRANCIS
Age 68
Q1 1849
PLOMESGATE Volume 12 Page 297
Bingo!
The Ipswich Journal 14 April 1849
30th ult, at Framlingham, in his 69th year, Francis, 3rd son of Mr. Robert Fisk, farmer, formerly of Badingham.
Many libraries offer free access to the British Newspaper Archive, as well as Findmypast or the original site https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/ by subscription.
As for the marriage licence: As they are not doing banns, William Fortt and a William Fisk have to put up a substantial surety in the event they should not have been married, such as one is already married. I would imagine a father could put up the surety, but I have never seen one do so. Can you imagine marrying your daughter off, finding the new husband is already married, and then having to pay a small fortune on top of it!?
The persons putting up the surety also had to be living a minimum of one month in same area.
As for being confused, don't try to rush the process! Gather all the bits and pieces of possible relatives without making any assumptions, and sooner or later it all comes together. :)
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Have you noticed the living nextdoor to Mary and William on the 1841 census are a Sophia Fisk age 25 and a Francis Fisk age 60 neither born in county.
Wondering if they are related. Struggling to find anything else on these two
On a side note, the Francis Fisk in the '41 states he was a confectioner.
The Norfolk Chronicle 03 February 1827 has a blip about a Francis Fisk, confectioner, being bound over for two years to keep the peace with his wife Mary.
Well Mary Fisk and William Fortt Were married in 1818 so it's not this Mary
Elizabeth Copping and Robert Fiske / Fisk of Badingham, Suffolk, England have a daughter Mary born 26 SEP 1799 Dennington, Suffolk, England but also a daughter Maria born 25 JAN 1804 Dennington, Suffolk, England (which may or may not indicate the first Mary Died???) either way it is three to Five year off the birth of the Mary Fortt nee Fisk I am looking for?
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As for the marriage licence: As they are not doing banns, William Fortt and a William Fisk have to put up a substantial surety in the event they should not have been married, such as one is already married. I would imagine a father could put up the surety, but I have never seen one do so. Can you imagine marrying your daughter off, finding the new husband is already married, and then having to pay a small fortune on top of it!?
The persons putting up the surety also had to be living a minimum of one month in same area.
They didn't have to present the surety money, only promise to pay it if something was wrong.
Wasn't it usually the bridegroom who applied for a marriage licence? He would ask a relative or friend or a trustworthy person who knew him well to be his co-bondsman.
Jason, if you're having difficulty deciphering old writing or understanding meaning of a document you can ask for help on the handwriting board.
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Well I still haven't cracked this. I have been wanting to solve this for over a year now
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so I was able to find and view that newspaper article mentioned
Printed 23 May 1846
it says Mary wife of William Fortt and Youngest Daughter of Robert Fisk formerly of Badingham, Farmer
so the Mary's father is Robert Fisk of Badingham now I have to find him and his date of birth plus his wife the Mother of Mary and Hopefuly a brother named Thomas Fisk(who was the Husband of William Fortt's 2nd wife Ruth James before he sadly committed suicide)
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Sophia Burman
BIRTH ABT 1781 Framlingham, Suffolk, England
DEATH 24 JAN 1854 South Stoneham, Hampshire
might be the mother of Mary Fisk
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Well I found a 2nd Mary Fisk in the Same area and Parish born around the same date which makes this even more confusing.
This Mary Fisk married a George Parslow in Bath somerset
I found a record of William and Marry Fisk of Wilcot baptizing their Daughter Mary Fisk in 1814. William the Father was also a confectioner. My Mary Fisk marriage Banns with William Fortt (also a confectioner) was from Wilcot.
Granted my Mary Fisk would of been 16-ish at the time but the baptism record doesn't state when that Mary was born.
The one newspaper clip States that Robert Fisk of Badingham, Suffolk was my Mary Fisk's Father but I can find nothing much proving that or who the mother is?
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Granted my Mary Fisk would of been 16-ish at the time but the baptism record doesn't state when that Mary was born.
Was it C. of E.? Custom was infant baptism. Most babies would have been between a few days and a few months old when they were baptised. Infant mortality was high, especially during 1st year of life.
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Yeah don't think that was the right couple. Or baptism
I found 10 Robert Fisk's of the right age to be my Mary Fisk's father in Suffolk with daughters Named Marry.
I have eliminated all but 2 of them.
most likely possibility is
Robert Fiske family search number 93gv-q2q
Elizabeth Copping kp7j-nkv
they have a daughter Mary born 1799 (mine was born 1796) which is close enough to be the same thing.
the other couple I am looking at as possible parents are
Robert Fisk Kn7289m
and Ann Pipe pv7p-ml2
I have also found one Robert Fisk that has no information other than his name and that he was born in Badingham Stuffolk (right locatiion) and is the right age