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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: smithy on Friday 29 April 22 09:52 BST (UK)
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Henry WATSON age 39 years as stated on his son's Gordon St.Clare Watson who was born Sale Victoria 1913. I'm having trouble trying to find anything about him before that birth, He states he was Married to Frances Roundtree in New Zealand in 1906.He may have been Henry George or George Henry. Can't find an entry for him arriving in Australia. I am a loss to find anything about him as Watson is a very common name.
thanks for any help some one may be able to give.
Carol.
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BDM VIC birth
7356/1913 WATSON Gordon St Clair parents France ROUNDTREE / Henry @ Sale
Can you please list all the information on the birth certificate.
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..........He states he was Married to Frances Roundtree in New Zealand in 1906.
Carol.
Where does Henry Watson state he was married to Frances in 1906 in NZ please?
Roundtree is often spelt 'Rountree' or 'Rowntree'
There is this birth
1872/35444 Rowntree Frances Hannah Winifred Edward Casson
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On Gordon St.Clare Watson's birth certificate it does state a marriage place, but i cannot read it and I'm not sure how to attach a copy to my post...sorry.
I have seen the birth for Frances Rowntree and haven't as yet discarded it.
thankyou
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When you click on “reply”
Under the white box where you type is
“Attachments and other options”
Select that and then “choose file”
Choose the screen shot of the relevant part of the certificate
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There are a number of trees on Ancestry that have her as belonging to the Edward Casson and Hannah Rowntree family, and a couple that have her husband as George Henry WATSON of Melbourne. Also have her death in 1954 in Wanganui which I think is probably off the mark.
No children indicated.
Ian C
EDIT
Also some trees for Gordon that have Frances' death in 1959. She is on a number of electoral rolls with him in the 1930s, 40s and 50s
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Marriage in Victoria of the aforementioned son? Note spelling of his second Christian name.....
LINDSAY-FIELD
Vera Loreen
Marriage
WATSON, Gordon Sinclair
1937
2458/1937
Minniehaha.
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Death of Gordon Sinclair Watson:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/107919754?searchTerm=gordon%20sinclair%20watson
Death registration in NSW....
WATSON GORDON ST CLAIR
18149/1970
AGED 56 YRS
FRANCES
EDEN
Minniehaha.
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When you say "he states" - is he the informant on his son's birth certificate? Or did Frances give the information? There are no other births I can see in Victoria or New Zealand to the couple.
What occupation is given for Henry?
There is a 1959 Victoria death, for a Frances Watson it gives her age as 87 which would line up with 1872 Frances, born Auckland New Zealand. Father just listed as "Roundtree", no other details.
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Just adding to reply from Jorose above:
WATSON
Frances
Death
<Unknown Family Name>, Unknown
UNKNOWN
<Unknown Family Name>, ROUNDTREE Unknown
AUCKLAND NEW ZEALAND
TRARALGON
<Unknown Family Name>
87
1959
28450/1959
It does look to be the lady.....
Minniehaha.
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Yes that is Frances's death in Traralgon Vic. 1959.
thanks for the reply.
I do have the information that I need for Gordon St. Clare Watson after his birth,
he married my aunt in 1937 I'm not sure how the Field was added to her name she was definitely Vera Doreen Lindsay.
I did try to upload part of the birth certificate for Gordon St. Clare Watson but I couldn't get it to work....I must be missing doing a step.!
I have Henry and Frances Watson on various Electoral rolls together until 1924.then nothing I can find for Henry Watson again. Frances Watson is on some 1930's with her son Gordon and from memory 1940's electoral rolls.
What I am really trying to establish and verify is parents ( I do have a birth for Frances born New Zealand 1872 that is a possibility) of both Henry and Frances and when they travelled to Victoria.
Henry Watson registered the birth and his occupation traveller.
thanks to all who have replied.
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I have Henry and Frances Watson on various Electoral rolls together until 1924.then nothing I can find for Henry Watson again. Frances Watson is on some 1930's with her son Gordon and from memory 1940's electoral rolls.
Henry Watson registered the birth and his occupation traveller.
Hi smithy
.... " I have Henry and Frances on various Electoral rolls together until 1924 " ...
Q. Can you please state exactly where?
(So we don't have to involve ourselves in lengthy searches :) )
Cheers.
~ Lu
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1919, Abergele, Orlando St, Hampton. Henry an Agent. (Page headed subdivision of Sandringham)
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On various Electoral Rolls for Victoria Australia:
Henry & Fanny Watson Sale Victoria occupation; Traveller on the 1913,
Henry & Frances Sale Victoria 1914,1915 Rolls
The next I have is Henry & Frances Jumbuk occupation: Farmer 1924
that is the only ones I can be sure that's the Henry Watson I'm researching.
Frances Watson is on 1935,1936,1937,1949 @ Selby Victoria home duties with her son Gordon St. Clare Watson.
On the 1942 Roll she is still in Selby living by herself.
On the 1949 Electoral Roll she is once again with her son In Morwell Victoria.
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Thanks for the 1919 electoral roll! that is a positive, I hadn't noticed that one....wonder how many others I haven't seen
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Thanks mckha and smithy for those addresses.
Was interested in Henry's occupation(s) during those years.
Have found something in NZ which is "vaguely interesting" ... may fit, may not. 8) Just gotta piece it together now. ;D
~ Lu
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Henry WATSON age 39 years as stated on his son's Gordon St.Clare Watson who was born Sale Victoria 1913.
.....He may have been Henry George or George Henry.
Back again ... with another question.
Carol ... why have you said he may be Henry George or George Henry ??
Q. Is that info you've taken from an online tree perhaps ? Can you explain please why Henry has these additional names ??
~ Lu
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And more questions re: VIC birth certificate for 1913 :
Q. Does the cert. give the Father's place of birth ??
Q. And does it confirm that the mother, Frances was born in NZ ... and where ??
~ Lu
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Lu, On the birth certificate of his son Gordon and the electoral rolls he is Henry., Gordon gives his fathers name as George (occupation Carpenter) on his marriage certificate to Vera Doreen Lindsay, so I guess my assumption was perhaps both names were used being first and second names....and I know we shouldn't assume! :)
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Or perhaps Gordon did not know his father's exact legal name. You say that you have lost track of Henry Watson ie that you cannot find him on later rolls after 1924 when Gordon would have been 11.
Perhaps the father's occupation was not really known either....I can understand traveller and farmer being the same person, as in those days NZers were often not far (generation-wise) from a rural upbringing. Though needs must in those times of uncertainty in the late 1930s.
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And more questions re: VIC birth certificate for 1913 :
Q. Does the cert. give the Father's place of birth ??
Q. And does it confirm that the mother, Frances was born in NZ ... and where ??[/b]
~ Lu
These questions ^ from earlier, still need answers if you can, please Carol ?
~ Lu
Added ... highlighting so this doesn't get missed. ;D
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Part quote:
"You say that you have lost track of Henry Watson ie that you cannot find him on later rolls after 1924 when Gordon would have been 11."
1926…… ??
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/232269050?searchTerm=henry%20watson
Minniehaha.
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Well if that is the correct Henry that explains the non appearance on the rolls. Op when you have found Frances on later rolls what does she give as her status ie 'widow' and on her death certificate is she noted as 'widow'?
ETA Noting that she is 'home duties' on these ones
1935,1936,1937,1949 @ Selby Victoria
But what for 1942 and on her death certificate?
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Did Gordon Sinclair go to WW11? Have you checked the Aus Defence Rolls?
What was Gordon Watson's exact date of birth please?
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On various Electoral Rolls for Victoria Australia:
Henry & Fanny Watson Sale Victoria occupation; Traveller on the 1913,
Henry & Frances Sale Victoria 1914,1915 Rolls
The next I have is Henry & Frances Jumbuk occupation: Farmer 1924
that is the only ones I can be sure that's the Henry Watson I'm researching.
Frances Watson is on 1935,1936,1937,1949 @ Selby Victoria home duties with her son Gordon St. Clare Watson.
On the 1942 Roll she is still in Selby living by herself.
On the 1949 Electoral Roll she is once again with her son In Morwell Victoria.
Hi Carol ... when giving Electoral info, could you please state the name of the actual Electorate ?
Lots of viewers for example, won't know where "Selby" is. (I've lived in Victoria so a few place names make sense.) But I was surprised to find "Selby" was in >
Electorate of "Flinders" > "Ferntree Gully" -- and that information was helpful to me in looking for other things connected to this search.
Here's Frances and son Gordon St Clare WATSON in 1954 >
VIC > McMillan > Morwell ... both living at 61 Comans Street - he's a mechanic / she's listed as F. (Female) "h.d. (home duties).
~ Lu
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Lu, On the birth certificate of his son Gordon and the electoral rolls he is Henry., Gordon gives his fathers name as George (occupation Carpenter) on his marriage certificate to Vera Doreen Lindsay, so I guess my assumption was perhaps both names were used being first and second names....and I know we shouldn't assume! :)
Hi again
It does seem that Gordon probably had little knowledge of his father - and maybe that's strange if he spent so many years living with, or near to, his mother Frances. It just seems odd ... although some people, did keep "family stories/secrets etc" well hidden. ;D
As well as your finds of Henry (traveller) and Fanny WATSON on Electoral rolls 1913/ 1914/ 1915, at Sale, Victoria, I have also found Henry WATSON, traveller and Fanny WATSON, home duties on another 1913 Electoral roll in Victoria.
It seems that AUS e/rolls differ from those of New Zealand in that in NZ we can often find if names were removed from rolls when persons shifted to another location during an election year ??
SO ... I can only assume the Henry (traveller) and Fanny WATSON on the 1913 VIC > Gippsland
> listing that I have found, are the same people who are at Sale in 1913 ?
1913 - VIC > Gippsland > Bairnsdale :
WATSON - Fanny - h. d.
WATSON - Henry - traveller both at Main Street, Bairnsdale.
Now, not sure if the following helps in establishing a connection to the "Frances ROWNTREE - bc 1872 NZ ??
In the aforementioned Electorate (Gippsland > Bairnsdale) in the very next year -- 1914 -- the following people are resident :
1914
BROOKS - Hannah Casson [* - a sister of the 1872 NZ-born Frances ROWNTREE ]
BROOKS - Charles William - [her husband ] - commission agent
and Edward Casson ROWNTREE - joiner - [ - the father of Hannah and Frances ]
.... all are residing at Main Street, Bairnsdale.
[* my notes are in italics ]
~ Lu
continues next post > >
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ROWNTREE etc. continued >
I don't want to bog down this thread with a lot of info on the ROWNTREE family because that's not really who you are searching for ... except to add the following background info which may aid in finding when Frances (and possibly Henry WATSON*) travelled to AUS.
[ * Note: No evidence that Henry WATSON was ever in NZ, aside from his stating a 1906 marriage to Frances in NZ].
* Edward Casson ROWNTREE is well documented and fairly easily found in newspapers mentions.
He married Hannah Winnyfred (sic) BUTTON at Hobart, Tasmania - 25/12/1858. He was in Otago province, NZ, by 1862 at least - made bankrupt at some stage - and advertising himself as an Architect and Surveyor. Electoral listings show him as "Builder" or " Carpenter" at various times.
* A daughter Eva ROWNTREE (Evalina ?) married in Oct. 1899 (to Walter Richard BLACKBURN) at her parents residence, at Fairfield Park, VIC. Unknown when Edward etc. returned to NZ but when his son Frank Chilton ROWNTREE married in VIC 1906, notice said his father "MR E C ROWNTREE lived in Wellington NZ."
* In 1908 the ROWNTREEs (Edward, wife Hannah and some children) are on the Wellington > Hutt > e/roll, residing at Petone (nr Lower Hutt).
* Frances ROWNTREE seems to still be in NZ but moving around different localities in years 1908 / 1911. (No occupation shown for her and named as "Francis ... - a spinster" on some rolls (that being the male spelling of her forename.) ::)
* Edward's wife Hannah Winifred ROWNTREE died at Wellington NZ in Auguust 1932.
* Edward Casson ROWNTREE died at the home of his daughter (Hannah Casson - Mrs BROOKS) in Victoria, in 1922. Can't see any probate documents for these people ... or death notices that might reveal a direct connection to Frances WATSON.
* The sister Eva BLACKBURN and husband returned to NZ to live (husb. d. 1949 at Auckland).
* Sister, Hannah Casson ROWNTRE, married Charles William BROOKS - 1892 - VIC.
SO other than the fact the the WATSONs / BROOKS and Edward C. ROWNTREE lived in the same location just year apart and that E C ROWNTREE (possibly Gordon's grandfather ?? ) was a "carpenter", I can't really offer any more.
Our NZ BDM is undergoing maintenance at present so some difficulty exists in trying to confirm certain items.
~ Lu
PS : I'll keep the notes I have gathered for ROWNTREE in case you need further info.
ALso, sorry for the big GAP in this post - have tried to correct it but HUGE advertisements keep creeping in. ;D
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Lu, thanks for all that you have done, Today I discovered that Henry George Watson died in 1923 in Melbourne! and buried at Burwood Cemetery Victoria along with Frances and I knew by Frances death certificate that she was buried at Burwood, so just thought I would check the cemetery records for deceased and Lo and behold Henry George Watson is buried in same grave aged 50yrs.! I then bought his death certificate and gives his birth as Timaru New Zealand had been in Australia for 14 years, and had been married to Frances Rowntree when he was 31yrs old. So by my reckoning he would have married in 1902 in I think its Kaikoura New Zealand. So of course that brings me back to trying to find his parents. On checking the New Zealand BDM for about 1872 I can find two George Henry births but no Henry George.
Regards
Carol
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And more questions re: VIC birth certificate for 1913 :
Q. Does the cert. give the Father's place of birth ??
Q. And does it confirm that the mother, Frances was born in NZ ... and where ??[/b]
~ Lu
These questions ^ from earlier, still need answers if you can, please Carol ?
~ Lu
Added ... highlighting so this doesn't get missed. ;D
Hi Carol
.... just while you are there, can you please answer these questions above for me.
They might just help in some leads I have toi a Henry George / George Henry.
~ Lu
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What else is on that death certificate please ??
Are you able to type it up on here (your transcription of it) ??
~ Lu
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Lu, I think I put in my original post Henry was born New Zealand but The certificate is not very clear so can't read the name of the place. Frances it said was born Melbourne, but family members had always believed she was born in New Zealand and according to her death certificate she was born Auckland New Zealand.
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The original post doesn't specify where Henry was born. Says his son was born at Sale.
And that he married Frances in 1906 in New Zealand.
Please, it's important that we have the information from the certificates - or any other official documents you have (rather than just guessing or taking a stab at things. Please remember too that we give our precious time freely here to try and help you. )
~ Lu
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Frances Rowntree daughter of Edward Casson was born in Dunedin on 8 March 1872.
A number of the other Rowntree children were at school in Dunedin around that time as well. Frances was known as Fanny.
Ian C
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Hello again smithy // Carol
... not sure if you perhaps have all the information you need now ... or whether you are coming back to this thread ??
I do have some more information I can share with you.
~ Lu
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I'm sorry i haven't answered any replies the last few days have been away from my laptop!
thanks Ian C for the info. re Rowntree children attending Dunedin school to be honest I haven't concentrated on Frances as yet but I'm aware of who her parents most likely are.
Lu yes I am still trying to sort through Henry Watson info.
once again I'm sorry I haven't been able to get back to you earlier.
Regards,
Carol
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Haven't forgotten Carol ... will post additional when I'm able to spend a bit more time online here.
~ Lu
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Lu, thankyou,
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.... I discovered that Henry George Watson died in 1923 in Melbourne! and buried at Burwood Cemetery Victoria along with Frances
...... Henry George Watson is buried in same grave aged 50yrs.!
...... I then bought his death certificate and gives his birth as Timaru New Zealand ....
and had been married to Frances Rowntree when he was 31yrs old.
.... On checking the New Zealand BDM for about 1872 I can find two George Henry births but no Henry George.
Hi Carol
Haven't been able to find a birth in NZ for a "Henry George WATSON" which is near in birth year to the man who died 1923 in Melbourne.
But there were two births of a "George Henry WATSON" -- one in 1872 and other in 1874.
Both these males came from large families and it was difficult going through various records, to get a handle on just which of them belonged to what family. [Ancestry has a great many trees for each of these WATSON families ... and I generally do my own searching first before resorting to looking at online "trees". But have to say the trees I did browse were error-ridden (mostly dates and mistakenly identifying with others of the same name) and these errors had been repeated over and over (in about 100 trees in all :o ) ]
Sorry to say, that neither of the New Zealand-born 1872 and 1874 "George Henry's", are not the man who died 1923 in Melbourne.
[I'll put details in a following post in case they're of help to researchers of these other WATSON men.]
* On Gordon's 1913 Birth Certificate, the places of birth of his father and mother should be stated ... and that information given by Henry WATSON himself when he registered the birth, will be the most reliable you'll get.
* Was Frances (wife) the informant to Henry WATSON's death ??
I do have some further information for another "person of interest" - just awaiting more info on that one.
~ Lu
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These New Zealand births for George Henry WATSON - 1872 and 1874, CAN BE ELIMINATED FROM THIS SEARCH :
1. George Henry WATSON - born 29 April 1872 - probably at Wairau*, Marlborough Province, NZ, - son of Margaret MAXWELL and George Henry WATSON (marr. NZ 1863). [*George Henry WATSON snr. is on electoral rolls at Renwick Town / Wairau Valley - Freehold land - from 1870-71.]
George Henry WATSON (b. 1872) died at Hastings (North Island) 22 January 1940 - aged 68 years (Suicide by poisoning). At the inquest into his death, a Mrs Dorothy E.M. WARD, his niece, gave evidence. [Dorothy WARD proved to be the daughter of his sister Isabella (m. SIMONSEN) ].
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19400126.2.94
--------------------------- //
2. George Henry WATSON - born 1874 - Buller, West Coast (South Island) - son of Robert aka Robert Tannahill WATSON and his wife Jessie. // Marr. Isabel Emily WRIGHT - 1906 //
Died 15 June 1954 at Christchurch aged 79 years [bc 1875] - Cremated (record of his death does not show on Christchurch Cemeteries database. ) His death notice in a local newspaper named his wife and children and also mentioned that he "was late of Granity, West Coast" :
---------------------------- // end
~ Lu
Edit : clarify wording
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This Australian one also eliminated : > >
VIC - BIRTH
Year : 1873
WATSON - Henry George
Parents : George WATSON & Susan MALONE
Birthplace : The Loddon, VIC
> Married : 1897 - Maud Eugenie TIBBETT - Henry George WATSON
> Electoral : Henry George (labourer) // Maud Eugene (sic) WATSON both at Farnworth Street, Castlemaine, VIC > 1924 // 1936
DEATH :
Year : 1952
WATSON - Henry George > Parents: George WATSON // Susan MALONE
Reg: Swan Hill, VIC :
--------------------------------------------// end
~ Lu
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Oh Lu, You have done such a lot of work looking for Henry George Watson, thank you so much. I have just been reading the info. you have found.
Frances wasn't the informant on the death certificate it was the clerk at the Hospital in Melbourne where he passed away. death certificate (1923) gives his birth as Timaru New Zealand and had been in Australia 14years so my calculations on arrival in Australia would be 1909.
On Gordon St.Clair Watsons birth certificate Henry Watsons birth is Oamaru New Zealand as far as i can understand the writing.( I have tried earlier on to upload a little of the certificate but had trouble doing it) Frances on the birth certificate has Melbourne as place of birth!
As we know birth certificates are the most reliable but as far as family knows she was from New Zealand. On Frances' death certificate Place of birth is Auckland New Zealand in 1959 when she died at Traralgon Victoria she had been in Australia for 50 years
Have had a look at distance between Timaru and Oamara and the distance is not great but guess it was a good way in the 1800's.
I wonder would local family history societies perhaps have information on any Watson families that I might be 'lucky' enough to be able to connect to Henry George Watson.
Regards
Carol
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Hi Carol
That additional info from the certs is great thanks.
Yes, Timaru / Oamaru are fairly close ... (my husband was born in one of those places, and schooled in the other ;)). It's the ..."maru" bit in the name ... and their close proximity which causes the confusion, I think. ;D
WATSON, you'll already know is a bit of a nightmare to research ... and there are so many with the same christian names !!
I do have a theory regarding Frances and Henry (Henry George), and some information to back that up. Will share that with you on here, just as soon as I have free time to get it in order (deciphering scribbled notes is my problem).
~ Lu
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Lu,
thank-you.
Carol
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.... Frances on the birth certificate has Melbourne as place of birth!
.... but as far as family knows she was from New Zealand. On Frances' death certificate Place of birth is Auckland New Zealand in 1959 when she died at Traralgon Victoria she had been in Australia for 50 years.
.... I wonder would local family history societies [*Timaru / Oamaru ] perhaps have information on any Watson families that I might be 'lucky' enough to be able to connect to Henry George Watson.
[* = my note ]
Hi Carol
From that info you've supplied, it appears that Frances and Henry had both been in Victoria from 1909. (Some consistency there ;D ).
Frances ROWNTREE (dau. of Edward Casson ROWNTREE and Hannah Winifred BUTTON) was born 1872 in Dunedin NZ (as per post from "eyesee" earlier) ... and electoral rolls also confirm Edward's presence in Otago during late 1860's and 1870's. :
Info from family history societies (Timaru / Oamaru ) : Try as I might, I cannot find a possible birth in or near, either of those localities for a "Henry / Henry George / George Henry" .
Have also just recently scoured the newspapers of those areas for WATSON birth notices and any other WATSON snippets which might relate. I've been able to eliminate some persons/items. The problem with the NZ Birth index (@ ancestry site) is that for the early 1870's, the index only gives "New Zealand" as a place of birth registration (rather than a specific city, town, etc. ) And that means we have to employ other techniques to hopefully find further information ... not always possible when working solely online. As to electoral information / directories etc. for NZ, not all males were on rolls before 1880-81 ... so at the time of Henry's birth, early 1870's, it might be that his father (and, if indeed his surname was WATSON ?) was not showing up on rolls.
I have no idea whether a family history society can assist you at all with this ?
In the information I'll post next, there is an obscure link to Timaru (which may link to "possible place of birth" on Henry's death cert. ?? ... it's purely speculation though).
~ Lu
PS ... sorry if there's a large gap in this post ... have tried unsuccesfully to correct it. (probably connected to an advertisment appearing on page - although there's not one coming up ?? )
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Henry WATSON / Henry George WATSON / George Henry WATSON : ??? ??? ???
Earlier in this search > before info was posted here about the contents of death certs and electoral rolls > I stumbled upon the following "George Henry WATSON".
I kept him in the background - just in case - and was a bit suprised when you'd said that Gordon S. WATSON had, on his marriage, given his father's name as "George" (albeit a "carpenter by trade").
And ... when Henry's death was discovered, that he'd been buried as "Henry George WATSON".
So why was Henry, always just "Henry WATSON" on VIC e/rolls ... and why did the name "George" creep in ?? Was he Henry George or George Henry in a former life ??
As already mentioned by others here, NO marriage between Frances and Henry has been found in New Zealand ... and I'm guessing too that Australian indexes have been checked ?
There does seem then to have been an "impediment" to Frances and Henry marrying ? Was it that one, or both were already wed to others ?? Nothing found for Frances ... Henry a little more difficult to trace.
Aside from the names "Henry" / "George" ...and those two names in combination, there are other similarities such as, year of birth, occupation and the time-frame in which one man "Henry George WATSON" apparently arrived in Australia, and the other, "George Henry WATSON" apparently disappeared from New Zealand ??
~ Lu > continues next post >>
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George Henry WATSON - New Zealand :
The New Zealand Police Gazette of January 1910, reported a George Henry WATSON* > born in NZ - aged [at that time ] 37 years, [born c. 1872 ], a former manager at Colonial Mutual Life Assn. [insurance company] at Palmerston North, had deserted his wife, Henrietta Louisa, at Auckland on 6th instant.
A follow up report of un-issued warrants at 31 March 1910, shows WATSON had not been found by that date. Could find no further articles seeking this man in NZ or Australia.
[* Not to be confused with a Henry WATSON (deserted wife Louisa May) also Auckland 1909 or another George Henry Watson (bc 1870) reported in other issues of NZ Police Gazette.]
link >
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/periodicals/NZPG19100119.2.2
This George Henry WATSON had married Henrietta Louisa RASMUSSEN (bc 1872 - NZ) in 1900 - probably at Napier where both were residing.
The couple moved around the country, alot. Probably this had to do with his job as an "insurance agent".
Of interest (maybe), is that this George Henry WATSON, insurance agent, in both 1899 and 1900 is listed as living in Carlyle Street, Napier. In the same street (unumbered), same years and earlier, some other WATSONs. Benjamin WATSON - a gun maker - his wife Laura / their married son Charles (warehouseman) and his spouse, Rosina.
Benjamin WATSON, wife and five children had arrived in Napier from Warwickshire, ENG in 1877 (ship : "Mataura"). Their youngest child, b. 1877 (ENG), was named Rowland and in later NZ electoral rolls he is often shown as "Rowland St. Clair WATSON" or variations "Roland" / "Sinclair" / and also as R. St Clair Hawkesford WATSON ... Hawkesford being his mother Laura's, maiden name.
Unfortunately, have not been able to find a link for George Henry to these other WATSONs ... and to confuse further, "St Clair" and its variants, used with surname WATSON, is not as unusual as it might seem. (A couple of NZ births too.)
[Note: There was quite a bit of info to be had for all these WATSONs ... electoral / burial / probate files / etc. etc. ... won't publish here as it's irrelevant for the time being, but will keep my notes in case needed. ]
In following post will give further detail for George Henry WATSON and the deserted wife.
~ Lu continues > >
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George Henry WATSON - husband of Henrietta Louisa WATSON :
I found no births to this couple. They seemed to be forever on the move throughout the North and South Islands ... often being registered in the same year in two electorates. I'm guessing that the nature of George Henry's job in selling life insurance, necessitated these moves ?
Electoral :
1899 - 1900 - Hawkes Bay > Napier
WATSON - George Henry - insurance agent - Carlyle Street
RASMUSSEN - Henrietta Louisa - Criterion Hotel, domestic duties (name not removed from 1902 roll at Napier)
1902 - Wellington > Newtown -- and also -- 1902 - Canterbury > Avon rolls
WATSON - George Henry- insurance agent / Henrietta Louisa - married
both at 9 Russell Tce, Wellington and ... at 20 Haast Street, Linwood, Christchurch (her mother at this address too).
1905-06 - Nelson > Nelson Main roll
- both at Waimea Street - GHW is listed as Superintendent, T & G Life [Temperance and General Insurance] - HLW is married.
1905-06 - also on Supplementary roll (dated 15 November 1905) at Otago > Dunedin South
GHW - Insurance superintendent -- HLW married - both at 125 Maitland Street
1908 - still on Dunedin roll
1908 - have moved to Manawatu-Wanganui > Palmerston (North)
- GHW - Life Insurance Inspector / HLW - married - at 38 Broad Street, Palmerston North.
No further sightings in NZ of this George Henry WATSON (insurance company employee) :
In 1911 his deserted wife is alone at 73 Symonds Street, Auckland - listed as "married".
Later, Henrietta Louisa WATSON is a "widow" living 1914 at Wellington and a "widow" still when she begins sharing an address in 1919 (in Wellington) with Frederick William NEEDHAM a billiard saloon proprietor. They remain in Wellington until 1928. They're missing from rolls in 1931 but marry in 1934 and by 1935 are residing in Timaru where they are both eventually to be buried. [Her mother, Philippina RASMUSSEN and a sibling (Caroline ?? ) are also buried at Timaru. ]
Edited to add > the sibling was "Willowmena ANDREWS" [aka Wilhelmina ? ]
I haven't found a divorce record for GH and HL WATSON ... and perhaps they didn't ever divorce ?
The "widow" status of Henrietta Louise may have been simply a ruse ? (Fairly common for deserted wives to do just that).
"Timaru" ... can't really find an explanation for this connecting to Henry WATSON ... he was long dead before this woman Henrietta went to live there (if in fact he is George Henry and Henrietta is his former wife ?). ??? ??? ???
[Henrietta Louisa RASMUSSEN's birth 1872 was registered at the gold-mining town of Gabriel's in Otago. ]
~ Lu continues next > >
Edit ... to enhance text.
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Henry WATSON / Henry George WATSON / George Henry WATSON :
Summary :
Think I mentioned earlier that I'd found Frances ROWNTREE on NZ electoral rolls.
1905-06 - West Coast - Buller (South Island) and also in 1908
ROWNTREE - Francis* - Wakefield Street (Westport) - spinster
[Note: * Francis is usually the male spelling of name - but as it also says "spinster" it probably is meant as Frances ? This date is earliest sighting of her on NZ e/rolls although she may have been eligible to vote from 1893 in NZ ... possibly she was in Victoria with her parents at the time her sister Hannah married there ?? Family ROWNTREE appear back in NZ at Petone, Wellington in 1905-06. ]
1908 - also on Manawatu-Wanganui > Pahiatua roll
ROWNTREE - Frances - Woodville - spinster
... she also has this same listing in 1911 although it may just be because her name was not removed from the roll.
Who knows though if she met her Henry WATSON in NZ and they ran away to Australia ?
In 1908 - George Henry WATSON was living at Palmerston North and Frances was residing at Woodville. Those places are reasonably close - although in that era I'm not entirely sure what the practicalities were in journeying easily between the two ?? [I think we have an expert on here who knows that territory well ?? ;) hoping he can help ? ]
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Just going back to Henry WATSON on VIC e/rolls from 1913 (and birth cert of Gordon) where he's a "traveller" by occupation. Very similar perhaps to the work that George Henry WATSON in New Zealand was engaged in ? Travelling to numerous localities selling life insurance.
And later it is noted (I think) that Henry WATSON in VIC was "an agent" / a "commission agent" on e/rolls ? Seems he was a "sales person" of some sort ??
For my part, I think there are too many similarities between these WATSONs - Henry and George Henry, to ignore completely. ;)
A step forward may well be to purchase the marriage printout of 1900 for George Henry WATSON and Henrietta Louisa RASMUSSEN ?? [Weigh that up with what it might cost to get research done by a Timaru/Oamaru family history society - who may just echo info already given here. ]
I'll add a link next post for NZ BDM so you can see what info is available on a 1900 marriage record.
~ Lu
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Link to NZ BDM >
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Home/
Names of both parents for each, plus father's occupation, birthplaces of bride and groom and their current and usual addresses, ... were questions asked in that era. Names (and sometimes addresses) of witnesses to marriage.
Be sure though to order the printout version ... this is a scanned image of the original record.
NZ BDM Reference :
Marriage
1900/532 - RASMUSSEN, Henrietta Louisa -- WATSON, George Henry
~ Lu
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The Manawatu Gorge road as a bridle track was opened up in the 1870s and a coach road was there by the 1890s so getting between Palmerston North and Woodville would have been quite easy by 1908. Saddle Road was not there, not sure about the Pahiatua Track road.
Ian C
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Thanks Ian ... I knew you would come to the party !! ;D Most helpful. :)
[ And now the Gorge road, ain't no more - courtesy of an earthquake or two. ]
~ Lu
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The railway was through the Gorge by then as well and there were lots of passenger trains at that time, not like today.
Ian C
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Great information ... thanks again. :)
Sad about lack of trains, these days. And the Gorge road trip was quite magnificent scenery-wise as long as you weren't the driver !
~ Lu
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WATSON in Napier NZ :
Back in reply # 45 where I've mentioned the Benjamin WATSON family (and the "St Clair" name), I have now come across an advertisement confirming his longevity in Carlyle Street.
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/DTN18981031.2.10.3
Seems to have been quite a lengthy street back in the day, with a mix of industry and residential cottages, hotels, boarding houses. This got me to thinking some more about whether this George Henry WATSON, insurance agent, resident of Carlyle Street in 1899 and 1900, was living at the same place as Benjamin or Charles WATSON ? A nuisance that there were no apparent street numbers. I came to the conclusion that if George Henry WATSON - in his daily business of selling insurance and travelling for that purpose - had been staying elsewhere in Carlyle Street, then it might well have been that his address listing showed more information .. e.g. name of a hotel or boarding house ??
~ Lu
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Lu, Thanks for all that information...I'm really trying to get my head around it all,I have read it through a couple of times.
I actually did wonder if Henry and Frances ever married!
Thank you doesn't seem enough for the amount of work you have done.
I'm thinking I may order the certificate of the marriage with Henrietta Rasmussen and see if there is anything on it that may connect!!
Regards Carol
P.S, Thanks also to Eyesee for the extra information about the Manuwatu Gorge Rd.It always amazes me someone is always able to answer about the roads tracks and even dwellings that no longer exist