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General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: Zaphod99 on Sunday 24 April 22 18:37 BST (UK)
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My DNA test kit is in transit to me. On Friday Ancestry offered me a 1-year UK subscription for £60 or worldwide subscription for £90. How is essential is it that I subscribe to one of these to get the most from my test ?
Zaph
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In order to be able to view not only matches but records, I'd say it's essential.
I'd also take the WW sub at £90 as it's a bargain = £1.73 p/w or £7.50 p/m
Annie
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I've got my main tree and records on find my past and got an ancestry DNA done (or rather my father) for more matches. What is essential is to get your tree up on ancestry and link the DNA. When I get matches I check to see if they are active and then write to them for further information if I need it. I've been able to do a lot for free. If you don't have many records yet, it is a good offer, but if you have most of your records from elsewhere, I would try without a membership subscription. If you think you would like one later, wait for another offer. It depends a bit on your financial situation. kaysii
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As an aside, slightly off topic, but related to this, can anyone advise me how to mark my ancestry account for not automatic renewal? Currently they debit my credit card automatically, and as a result, I am paying>£90.00 for the essential package.
I am thinking that if not set up for automatic renewal, I am more likely to be offered a better deal, and ideally I would love, for at least 1 year, a worldwide package so I can access records for, and search better for, my various USA/Canada/Australia/New Zealand based ancestors and matches!
The only way I can see to do it, currently, would be to delete my credit card details from my account, but I am not convinced this would work, as it might leave me, extended, for another year, but in deficit to Ancestry. Any suggestions welcome. I would love to link my many USA matches up with my known and unknown relative who could have emigrated there, either from Ireland, or from here in Scotland, where they came to from various parts of Ireland
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Hi Jane
You should be able to go into Account settings and Cancel Membership. This should then let your current subscription run until the expiry date.
There is an offer mentioned regularly on here for half price membership which many people use but to get that your current sub must have expired
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Can I clarify please?
If you don’t have an Ancestry subscription and you don’t have a tree on Ancestry can you still see all DNA related features and matches and contact them if you wish?
I don’t know how Ancestry DNA works regarding trees and records, and like Zaph I am wondering if everything DNA is available to non subscribers (apart from tree matching).
I’ve tested with FTDNA and uploaded raw data to My Heritage so am more used to how those sites organise DNA matches. No subs required. :)
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As an aside, slightly off topic, but related to this, can anyone advise me how to mark my ancestry account for not automatic renewal? Currently they debit my credit card automatically, and as a result, I am paying>£90.00 for the essential package.
I am thinking that if not set up for automatic renewal, I am more likely to be offered a better deal, and ideally I would love, for at least 1 year, a worldwide package so I can access records for, and search better for, my various USA/Canada/Australia/New Zealand based ancestors and matches!
The only way I can see to do it, currently, would be to delete my credit card details from my account, but I am not convinced this would work, as it might leave me, extended, for another year, but in deficit to Ancestry. Any suggestions welcome. I would love to link my many USA matches up with my known and unknown relative who could have emigrated there, either from Ireland, or from here in Scotland, where they came to from various parts of Ireland
Hover over your name and click the second option Account Settings scroll down to near the bottom of the page and there is the option to "modify membership"
Cheers
Guy
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Hi, Guy & Rosie99, thanks for that advice!
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Can I clarify please?
Can I clarify please?
If you don’t have an Ancestry subscription and you don’t have a tree on Ancestry can you still see all DNA related features and matches and contact them if you wish?
Yes, you paid for that part of the site that deals with DNA when you paid for the test.
I've never had a sub with Ancestry but do have my DNA there.
I can see all my matches and contact them.
Where a sub would be handy is seeing unlinked public trees, also I can only see the tree preview of those who have a public tree linked to their DNA but sometimes if they have place attached to generations I can't see I can pick up earlier names from the map.
I did eventually put a tree on there as it helps with ThruLines, (can be helpful sometimes, can also be rubbish) and lets the common ancestor feature work.
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Thanks very much Sinnan. That helps a lot.
I suppose if you have a DNA match with someone and can only see a preview of their tree, you would simply contact them to ask if they will share their tree.
(I wouldn’t want to be forever locked into having a subscription in order to view my DNA results).
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Ruskie - Originally I only had a DNA sub on Ancestry but took a note of match trees I thought might be interesting to view. I took a month sub to view them all once or twice a year. It is one way around their rather mean approach to restrict tree viewing for DNA members. Have to say though that I found Ancestry were so far ahead of the rest of the companies in working a match list to produce leads that I eventually took out a full sub.
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I don't bother asking to view trees, I guess the difference for me is my research is in Ireland and as everyone knows you can't get back too far in Ireland so there usually isn't anything or much to see beyond the preview, I just send a message and if they don't respond do the research myself, you usually end up doing that anyway to check for errors and see if you can glean any other info from the records.
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Thanks ikas and Sinann.
Apologies if I have overtaken your thread Zaph but I hope my questions are relevant.
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How is essential is it that I subscribe to one of these to get the most from my test ?
Zaph
What other sites do you have subscriptions to?
What info. are you hoping to find?
Ancestry has the largest 'Trees' database with/without DNA members.
The offer you've had is more than worth taking up as there will be both DNA members' trees & non DNA members' trees you could match to with info. on your own tree.
It's for 1 year as I pointed out at a cost of less than £2 per week.
I've been with Ancestry for many yrs, only a small tree there, basic direct lines but since doing DNA I'm wishing I'd added far more but at the time it was too time consuming.
I knew very little about DNA & matches prior to doing my own test (with Ancestry) but I've managed (with a lot of research & effort) to work out some pretty hard matches & find it all very exciting.
I'm now considering a 2nd DNA test with another company although I haven't decided which yet.
How many DNA tests have you done & which companies have you used?
I have access to my brother's DNA on 23&me but trees aren't available to view & I've found many depend on DNA matching without going to the trouble of building trees i.e. a lot of those I've been in touch with can't tell me who their ancestors are beyond their g/parents ::)
Annie
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Annie, apologies if you already know this and have other reasons for wanting to take a second test, but are you aware that you can download a copy of your raw DNA data file from Ancestry, and many other testing companies will let you upload it (transfer in) to their databases for matching? Ancestry are one of the few that don't allow transfers in from other companies, but nearly, if not all of the companies who allow transfers in will accept Ancestry DNA files.
I have transferred my Ancestry test to My Heritage, LivingDNA/FindMyPast, FTDNA and Gedmatch.
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Having an Ancestry account is ESSENTIAL to get the best out of a DNA test.
Whilst we have had a worldwide subscription with them for many years before we actually took the DNA test we spent a lot of time going sideways and populating out tree as much as possible and we worked back generation by generation, double checking and validating everything along the way.
The DNA side is still a work in progress getting ones old grey matter around the potential issues one can face, but once the matches come in then the fun and frustration begins.
The easiest way is link your matches is to use the Common Ancestor filter, this display will then only show DNA matches where a link between you has been proposed by the Ancestry software. The presented route is often cobbled together from multiple Trees that there are on Ancestry and hence care and validation of each person is really a good idea rather than blindly accepting what is presented as fully accurate. We have found many errors and missing generations on said presented routes.
It took us about three months of work to get through all the Common Ancestors on my Wife’s and my own tree and once this was complete we started on the highest cM match and worked through all that we could.
FRUSTRATIONS caused by DNA matches
They have no tree
They have a tree of few people all are still alive and hence seen as Private
They have not linked themselves in their tree to their DNA results
They do not answer messages (8 years is our record for a response to occur)
Their user name bears no hint ie clown1234 to their name
Ladies often use their married name as a user name which leads to problems identifying them especially if she has had multiple marriages
The big one is that they have a very extensive tree but you cannot find where the link between you is
A separate frustration is the Ethnicity results, ours now bears zero relationship to what it originally showed and now with the way it is split between how ones DNA is split between parents the results can result in anxiety for in my own case it looks like my Father was not of the origins I have always believed him to be.
Then you get a high cM match with a lot of other matches being shared with them and you struggle to find the link.
Don’t get me wrong frustrations aside DNA has opened up our trees extensively and for me I have over sixty 3C to 6C family in my tree and my Wife 74 and many of the closer ones are in contact via social media.
For only yesterday a Cousin with a 95 cM match to me has responded to contact, so things are ever changing.
So yes subscribe to Ancestry and make the most of the DNA test for as a side issue it has linked both my Wife and I back via linked DNA matches to our Gateway’s.
Once you have created the tree and linked as much as you can to the matches then you could replicate what we have done and sync’d our Ancestry Trees to Roots Magic so now we are not reliant on Ancestry per say.
As suggested uploading your Raw DNA data to the various sites can kead to other matches.
For problems DNA Painter can help and its WATO tool is useful in give a number of relationship hypothesis.
Good luck.
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Annie, apologies if you already know this and have other reasons for wanting to take a second test, but are you aware that you can download a copy of your raw DNA data file from Ancestry, and many other testing companies will let you upload it (transfer in) to their databases for matching?
I have transferred my Ancestry test to My Heritage, LivingDNA/FindMyPast, FTDNA and Gedmatch.
Hi Phil,
Yes, I've uploaded to MH & Gedmatch.
I'm considering mtDNA although I'm unsure how helpful it would be.
Annie
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I'm going to try a one year when I get my results. I can't take the money with me!
Zaph
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Great Post and info Biggles
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Great Post and info Biggles
Many thanks
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A slightly different question, if I may.
I do have an Ancestry subscription, but I do not keep my tree on Ancestry and I don't wish to.
Is an Ancestry tree essential to getting the most out of a DNA test?
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Yes. Thrulines work by comparing your tree against similar branches of the trees of other users that you have a DNA match with. It isn't essential to have a tree, but Thrulines hints can save you a lot of work in trying to establish how some of your matches are related.
Don't take Thrulines as 100% accurate though. They are only as good as the information in your and other people's trees, and there are quite a few dubious trees on Ancestry. If you havea Thrulines hint to a shared ancestor, it is always worth researching the lineage in the matching tree to satisfy yourself that it is correct, or otherwise.
My Ancestry tree is just a bare Gedcom export from my Family Historian project, uploaded to find record hints and Thrulines matches, nothing more
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Biggles, I enjoy reading your posts as they're very informative but I think you should start your own thread with the frustrations as this is perfect & I'm sure you could add a few more & head it...
'10 Frustrations of DNA Matches' as it's so true & I've experienced them all! :)
FRUSTRATIONS caused by DNA matches
They have no tree
They have a tree of few people all are still alive and hence seen as Private
They have not linked themselves in their tree to their DNA results
They do not answer messages (8 years is our record for a response to occur)
Their user name bears no hint ie clown1234 to their name
Ladies often use their married name as a user name which leads to problems identifying them especially if she has had multiple marriages
The big one is that they have a very extensive tree but you cannot find where the link between you is
A separate frustration is the Ethnicity results, ours now bears zero relationship to what it originally showed and now with the way it is split between how ones DNA is split between parents the results can result in anxiety for in my own case it looks like my Father was not of the origins I have always believed him to be.
Annie
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Yes. Thrulines work by comparing your tree against similar branches of the trees of other users that you have a DNA match with. It isn't essential to have a tree, but Thrulines hints can save you a lot of work in trying to establish how some of your matches are related.
Don't take Thrulines as 100% accurate though. They are only as good as the information in your and other people's trees, and there are quite a few dubious trees on Ancestry. If you havea Thrulines hint to a shared ancestor, it is always worth researching the lineage in the matching tree to satisfy yourself that it is correct, or otherwise.
My Ancestry tree is just a bare Gedcom export from my Family Historian project, uploaded to find record hints and Thrulines matches, nothing more
Ancestry isn't the only option though, is it?
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Ancestry isn't the only option though, is it?
Of course it isn't, but you referred to Ancestry in your question. I assume you have tested with Ancestry, or you wouldn't have asked the question that you did. You can transfer your test data to several other providers such as My heritage, LivingDNA/FindMyPast, Family Tree DNA, GEDmatch etc. to obtain matches with their databases, but if you haven't tested with Ancestry you can't transfer in to them.
But you asked whether it was necessary to have a tree on Ancestry. If you haven't tested with Ancestry and you aren't in their DNA database, uploading or creating a tree is of no value whatsoever for DNA purposes. If you have tested with Ancestry, which your previous question intimated, a tree is still not essential; but without it you will not get any Thrulines suggestions to your DNA Matches, which could save you many hours of investigative research in establishing how you and some of your matches may be related.
My Heritage have a similar feature. Again, it's not necessary to have a tree on My Heritage, but their smart matches won't give you hints without one.
GEDmatch strongly suggest that you upload a Gedcom if you transfer in to them. Again, it's not necessary, but in each of these examples you are not taking full advantage of the resources available to you if you don't.
Personally, if I'm looking for or investigating DNA Matches, I want to be able to take advantage of every tool available to me that might help my research. I see no point it making things harder or more difficult than necessary.
As I said, my Ancestry tree (and those on other sites such as My heritage and FindMyPast) are bare Gedcoms, and private. No one else can see them unless they ask me for permission, but they work for hints and Thrulines/Smart Matching, which is why I have them there.
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Ancestry isn't the only option though, is it?
Of course it isn't, but you referred to Ancestry in your question. I assume you have tested with Ancestry, or you wouldn't have asked the question that you did. You can transfer your test data to several other providers such as My heritage, LivingDNA/FindMyPast, Family Tree DNA, GEDmatch etc. to obtain matches with their databases, but if you haven't tested with Ancestry you can't transfer in to them.
But you asked whether it was necessary to have a tree on Ancestry. If you haven't tested with Ancestry and you aren't in their DNA database, uploading or creating a tree is of no value whatsoever for DNA purposes. If you have tested with Ancestry, which your previous question intimated, a tree is still not essential; but without it you will not get any Thrulines suggestions to your DNA Matches, which could save you many hours of investigative research in establishing how you and some of your matches may be related.
My Heritage have a similar feature. Again, it's not necessary to have a tree on My Heritage, but their smart matches won't give you hints without one.
GEDmatch strongly suggest that you upload a Gedcom if you transfer in to them. Again, it's not necessary, but in each of these examples you are not taking full advantage of the resources available to you if you don't.
Personally, if I'm looking for or investigating DNA Matches, I want to be able to take advantage of every tool available to me that might help my research. I see no point it making things harder or more difficult than necessary.
As I said, my Ancestry tree (and those on other sites such as My heritage and FindMyPast) are bare Gedcoms, and private. No one else can see them unless they ask me for permission, but they work for hints and Thrulines/Smart Matching, which is why I have them there.
I haven't tested at all.
I asked about Ancestry as everywhere I searched about using DNA seems to talk about having a tree on Ancestry.
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I have been an ancestry member for 10 years and did my DNA earlier this year, but it's been rather disappointing. My closest match is a young cousin who lives 2 streets away and only has himself in his tree. The other 'close' ones don't have trees on Ancestry; most of the others don't have any matching surnames, nor do most even appear to be in the UK. I did have one match which looked interesting as it was on my troublesome Irish line - but his tree has no sources, has my great grandfather married to his sister (same first name), and one ancestor has 135 siblings :(
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I haven't tested at all.
I asked about Ancestry as everywhere I searched about using DNA seems to talk about having a tree on Ancestry.
Probably because Ancestry has the largest number of users and DNA tests, and hence the largest database, by some margin. You are more likely to find the greatest number of matches on Ancestry as a result. That doesn't mean if course that your closest or most relevant matches will necessarily be on Ancestry, only that the odds are greater, but you could find them elsewhere, which is why it is good advice to get into as many databases as possible.
You can transfer an Ancestry test elsewhere as I previously said, but Ancestry don't allow transfers in from other vendors, hence Ancestry is a good place to start.
If you are serious about DNA testing and want the best advice and answers to your questions, I'd recommend obtaining a copy of "Tracing your ancestors using DNA", edited by Graham S. Holton.It covers everything from the basics of genealogical DNA testing to more complex issues, with chapters written by different experts in each field.
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I have to agree with phil57.
I built my tree on my family history software which sits on my pc, and it was very happy there, especially after I had a poor experience about 15 years ago when I shared my tree with one person and asked them not to share ::). That tree is now littered with errors all over ancestry.
Earlier this year I finally did an Ancestry DNA test.
Results arrives and the closer matches were pretty easy to work out but there are the frustrations of private trees.., extremely small trees and no trees at all. It then became more time consuming to work out the matches, so, like phil57, I uploaded a barebones tree, kept it private but searchable, which is necessary to get the thru-lines and hints.
More matches to work through, some frustrations with very no matches at all and my original shared tree keeps coming up ;D…
I email one person linked to this tree and he very politely replied today and said yes, you know the Morgan line is a very big tree lol! If only he knew! Anyway, he didn’t answer my question (he has one of those clown1234 user names and kept his parents and grand parents private). No worries, I know roughly where he sits in the tree.
So yes, if you do decide on doing a dna test, I suggest you do as phil57 has done.
I’m still learning with this dna lark and must thank several members on the boards who have shared their advice.
My aim was not to find a missing grandparent but to try and verify my years of research. It’s working out quite well and I have also found the parentage of 2 NPE matches so far.
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I have been an ancestry member for 10 years and did my DNA earlier this year, but it's been rather disappointing. My closest match is a young cousin who lives 2 streets away and only has himself in his tree. The other 'close' ones don't have trees on Ancestry; most of the others don't have any matching surnames, nor do most even appear to be in the UK. I did have one match which looked interesting as it was on my troublesome Irish line - but his tree has no sources, has my great grandfather married to his sister (same first name), and one ancestor has 135 siblings :(
I'd suggest reading through this topic, particularly the posts by Biggles50.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=863488.0
Have you researched your tree as far and wide as possible? Most matches will not have your surname or that of your mother. They will be the descendants of the brothers and sisters of your parents, grandparents, great-grandparents etc. who share a common ancestor with you several generations back, and whose names will have changed one or several times due to marriages of their ancestors in the intervening generations. If you research those lines (your collateral lines, since they are not in your direct line of descent) and bring them forward to as near the present day as possible, you will stand a much greater chance of recognising some surnames, or having algorithms such as Ancestry's Thrulines identifying them.
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Thanks phil57, i will have a read later, but i’ve already done that, in fact right from the start as I quickly realised that widowed parents invariably ended up with one of their children. With ancestors having anything up to 15 children it’s a very wide tree, with masses of detail and sources. Back to pre 1800 on all but my Irish lines (with a few missing deaths), and further on a few. I have every birth, marriage and death certificate for my primary line, and a large number of related infant deaths. Only a few very distant cousins emigrated and none of those are popping up 😀
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Thanks phil57, i will have a read later, but i’ve already done that, in fact right from the start as I quickly realised that widowed parents invariably ended up with one of their children. With ancestors having anything up to 15 children it’s a very wide tree, with masses of detail and sources. Back to pre 1800 on all but my Irish lines (with a few missing deaths), and further on a few. I have every birth, marriage and death certificate for my primary line, and a large number of related infant deaths. Only a few very distant cousins emigrated and none of those are popping up 😀
You are most definitely on the right track, I have found that having a wide tree really does help with getting DNA matches successfully linked into my trees even if they have no trees or user names that give no clue to their ID.
My trees are Private and my DNA settings allow for being found.
The Common Ancestor hints is by far the best Ancestry tool but as you are probably aware the lines suggested to link to the match are cobbled together from many trees and can be full of errors including missing generations.
Once you are comfortable with using the DNA then downloading the Raw DNA Data from Ancestry and uploading it to Gedmatch and the other comparison websites can yield even more results and the tools available can help in drilling down to paternal and maternal sides and many other analytical tools can support identifying where a match shares an ancestor.
On Gedmatch each Tool has an accompanying How Too video tutorial that explains usage, it may be beneficial for anyone interested in gaining more understanding of DNA to watch these video tutorials.
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My DNA test kit is in transit to me. On Friday Ancestry offered me a 1-year UK subscription for £60 or worldwide subscription for £90. How is essential is it that I subscribe to one of these to get the most from my test ?
Zaph
I am a bit late in replying.
It is not essential at all as all testing companies give a short term subscription to their databases with the test kit.
This free subscription is long enough to dertmine if a long term membership would add any value to your research, or whether you would be better subscribing with a different company.
Cheers
Guy
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Thanks Biggles50, i am on leave next week so will look into downloading to gedmatch and others.
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I haven't tested at all.
I asked about Ancestry as everywhere I searched about using DNA seems to talk about having a tree on Ancestry.
To get the best out of a DNA test if the main aim is to find Family then you really need an online Family Tree, its not essential but it really helps.
Your online Tree can be hidden by setting it to Private and once you link your DNA results to yourself in your tree then the floodgates will open.
I have added 70 Cousins to my tree and 76 to my Wife’s tree which is separate this would not have happened without being Tested.
The wider your tree going back to 1800 the better and easier it will be to find links.
There is a lot of frustration, there can be NPE’s, there can be endogamy not to mention matches with no trees and a username like Joe90 that is neither use nor ornament. A biggie is a female with a user name like JaneJones, is Jones her married name or her birth name and if it is her married name is it her first, second or even third married name, I highlight this because living people are seen as Private so you do not see the full picture and the fathers surname may well not be seen.
Hence it is not a bed of roses and it can take a few years to get reasonably proficient in the finer points of DNA but using the Common Ancestor, Shared Matches and Thrulines means you can make progress without knowing a lot about DNA.
One thing to know about DNA is the use of the free online tool DNA Painter, using its Shared Matches Tool you enter the DNA matches cM value and the App gives you the probabilities of various relationships, ie enter 100 and amongst the Probabilities is 3C which will give a good idea of where to pitch your research.
I am far from being an expert, its just that I have been using DNA for a good few years now.
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My DNA test kit is in transit to me. On Friday Ancestry offered me a 1-year UK subscription for £60 or worldwide subscription for £90. How is essential is it that I subscribe to one of these to get the most from my test ?
Zaph
I am a bit late in replying.
It is not essential at all as all testing companies give a short term subscription to their databases with the test kit.
This free subscription is long enough to dertmine if a long term membership would add any value to your research, or whether you would be better subscribing with a different company.
Cheers
Guy
Zaph
My view is the opposite to Guy’s.
A subscription for at least a year is essential if you are serious about finding Family via a DNA test.
Without the subscription then following up on all the DNA matches, using Common Ancestor hints, Shared Matches and Thrulines will be far more difficult.
Put a time value on the £90 using how much you get paid per hour and the subscription has to be great vfm.
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My view is the opposite to Guy’s.
Put a time value on the £90 using how much you get paid per hour and the subscription has to be great vfm.
See my Reply #1 - 5 months ago with no reply as to whether it was thought to be good value or not!
Annie
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I did have one match which looked interesting but his tree has no sources, has my great grandfather married to his sister (same first name), and one ancestor has 135 siblings :(
I often wonder the mentality of those with 'facts/figures' which are clearly impossible ???
jc26red...
"I uploaded a barebones tree, kept it private but searchable, which is necessary to get the thru-lines and hints"
Can you please explain how to do this as my tree is Private i.e. I don't understand how 'private but searchable' works?
"I email one person linked to this tree and he very politely replied today and said yes, you know the Morgan line is a very big tree lol! If only he knew"
Did you let the person know you'd made an error in the early days & point it out?
I'm pretty sure if you had/did it would be ignored anyway as the 'person' has obviously not done their own 'research' to verify/rectify your errors ::)
Annie
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In the tree settings there is a Privacy Tab where at the bottom is a tick box to either allow the tree to be found in searches or for it not to be found.
If find in searches is allowed it will show as Private and another user has to send a request to you and you to either send them a link or to deny access.
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I am a bit late in replying.
It is not essential at all as all testing companies give a short term subscription to their databases with the test kit.
This free subscription is long enough to dertmine if a long term membership would add any value to your research, or whether you would be better subscribing with a different company.
Cheers
Guy
Zaph
My view is the opposite to Guy’s.
A subscription for at least a year is essential if you are serious about finding Family via a DNA test.
Without the subscription then following up on all the DNA matches, using Common Ancestor hints, Shared Matches and Thrulines will be far more difficult.
Put a time value on the £90 using how much you get paid per hour and the subscription has to be great vfm.
I do not dispute that but most if not all DNA kits include a short membership to the companies datasets. For example Ancestry have 3 options available when purchasing a DNA test kit at present
1 A basic kit only offer (this used toto include 7 or 14 days membership but now does not) at 59 pounds
2 An enhance offer with 3 months worldwide membership for 60 pounds, i.e. 3months for £1
3 The basic offer plus Traits for an extra 9 pounds.
To my way of thinking the only one worth taking up is offer two which gives 3 months membership in the cost so no need to subsccribe for 3 months and possibly you will have exhausted all your links in that time or at least had the chance to decide if a membership is worthwhile.
This is why I say there is no need to subscribe as a short subscription wass and is still free or almost free when you buy the kit.
Cheers
Guy
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When some of you say you've uploaded a 'barebones' tree, did you have to put that together from scratch, or is there some way you can export a certain amount only from a family tree program, or is there another way altogether?
Does a "barebones" tree just include direct lines (parents, grandparent, great grandparents etc) or does it include siblings, aunts & uncles, grandaunts & uncles etc?
I'm considering doing a DNA test and/or getting a subscription at some point, and don't want to upload my entire tree (especially as I know it has some errors or queries I'm working through, and wouldn't want them to be duplicated)... but don't like the idea of having to build a basic one from the start either.
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I export my tree as a Gedcom file from my family history software, in my case Family Historian. The software gives various options for creating the Gedcom when exporting. In my case I include all individuals in my tree, related or not, excepting those still living or specifically excluded for other reasons such as confidentiality. I include all relevant facts or events, but no source or media files.
The resulting Gedcom is uploaded to Ancestry and marked as private but searchable. I link it to my DNA test and others that I manage, linking the correct individuals in the tree. Periodically, as my tree expands, I upload an updated copy and repeat the linking process. Hints usually populate fairly quickly. Thrulines can take 2-3 days.
Sometimes I upload a speculative tree consisting of a branch where I am uncertain of the direct Ancestors, or have options for the correct individual, to see if I pick up any DNA Matches that could guide me to the correct individual or line. That does mean unlinking the primary tree for a while, as you can only have one tree linked to your DNA test(s) at any particular time. I also regularly upload the same bare Gedcom to other sites for similar reasons.
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Thanks for all that info phil57!
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When some of you say you've uploaded a 'barebones' tree, did you have to put that together from scratch, or is there some way you can export a certain amount only from a family tree program, or is there another way altogether?
Does a "barebones" tree just include direct lines (parents, grandparent, great grandparents etc) or does it include siblings, aunts & uncles, grandaunts & uncles etc?
I'm considering doing a DNA test and/or getting a subscription at some point, and don't want to upload my entire tree (especially as I know it has some errors or queries I'm working through, and wouldn't want them to be duplicated)... but don't like the idea of having to build a basic one from the start either.
No to a barebones, my full tree is on Ancestry but it is set to Private but searchable so it shows up in a search but they cannot see the content.
A wide and full tree will enable Ancestry to present Common Ancestor hints and Thrulines hints a small barebones tree will not do this.
Regards errors, the software you have should have Error Checking Tools, Roots Magic certainly does.
The software that I use sync’s with Ancestry so I make changes in the software Tree I can sync it with the Ancestry tree, I make changes in Ancestry, I sync it to the Software tree within the software itself.
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A wide and full tree will enable Ancestry to present Common Ancestor hints and Thrulines hints a small barebones tree will not do this.
You have a different definition of a bare bones tree to me. My Ancestry tree contains over 3,000 individuals, with their relationships, ancestors, descendants, collateral lines, and summary information for facts an events. So, for instance, it includes the dates and locations of births, baptisms, marriages, deaths, appearances in censuses, occupations etc. where they are known. What it does not include from my offline tree are the sources for that information, any media such as image of source documents, places or people, or my notes and other research information.
It is perfectly capable of obtaining record hints, common ancestor hints and Thrulines suggestions.
The export function in my software can track accepted or viewed hints in such a way that they are not repeated when I upload an updated Gedcom, but I have never felt the need to use that aspect of the software. Any new sources or information discovered as a result of Ancestry, FindMyPast or other hints and matches I download, source and cite in my offline tree. That information will make its way into subsequent uploads of updated Gedcoms, but only as summarised facts. It works for me.
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A wide and full tree will enable Ancestry to present Common Ancestor hints and Thrulines hints a small barebones tree will not do this.
You have a different definition of a bare bones tree to me. My Ancestry tree contains over 3,000 individuals, with their relationships, ancestors, descendants, collateral lines, and summary information for facts an events. So, for instance, it includes the dates and locations of births, baptisms, marriages, deaths, appearances in censuses, occupations etc. where they are known. What it does not include from my offline tree are the sources for that information, any media such as image of source documents, places or people, or my notes and other research information.
It is perfectly capable of obtaining record hints, common ancestor hints and Thrulines suggestions.
The export function in my software can track accepted or viewed hints in such a way that they are not repeated when I upload an updated Gedcom, but I have never felt the need to use that aspect of the software. Any new sources or information discovered as a result of Ancestry, FindMyPast or other hints and matches I download, source and cite in my offline tree. That information will make its way into subsequent uploads of updated Gedcoms, but only as summarised facts. It works for me.
Thanks for that Phil
My own definition of a barebones tree is a limited number of people tree with just names, dates and locations.
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Thanks Phil, I use the same techniques as you and yes my tree is very wide and full and I do get plenty of useful thru-lines which I verify.
One other thing I did which proved reasonably useful was to downloaded the closest matches list sort them in excel. many have the same person managing the tests… At least one will have some sort of tree visible which I can work on, that way you can do several at a time and clear some of the poor trees at the same time.
You tube have instructions on how to download the lists google sheets, I then opened the sheet in excel as I find it easier and quicker to use.
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Thanks Biggles50 an phil57 for your input. It's very helpful to know what people consider a barebones tree, what they have up on Ancestry, what different software does. I really appreciate it as it gives me a bit of an idea before I start (if and when I decide to do a DNA test).
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you can only have one tree linked to your DNA test(s) at any particular time.
That's disappointing. Ideally I would split my tree into two, the paternal and maternal lines as there is no crossover between the two.
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you can only have one tree linked to your DNA test(s) at any particular time.
That's disappointing. Ideally I would split my tree into two, the paternal and maternal lines as there is no crossover between the two.
I am not sure why you would want two distinct Trees.
Personally I would keep one tree and then in Software like Roots Magic I would sync the whole tree into a Roots Magic project, and then check for Problems, Duplicates and perform a Tree Count, these actions would clear any issues.
Then I would start a new Roots Magic Project, select Father in the whole tree and drag him into the new project.
Then do the same with the Mother.
I would add myself and set me as the home person, then upload both trees to Ancestry.
So now on Ancestry I would have the whole tree, a Paternal tree and a Maternal tree then I would swap over the DNA link to myself in each tree, keep it there for a while and swap over as often as required.
With a strong DNA match I build a tree in Ancestry around them until I find where we have a Common Ancestor(s). Once found I sync the Tree to a new project in Roots Magic and after error checking as prior, I drag the home person into my whole tree and merge the Common Ancestor(s). The DNA match and their tree is now part of my whole tree.
I then sync my Roots Magic whole tree back to my whole Ancestry tree.
If you build a DNA match in your Ancestry tree but fail to find a Common Ancestor(s) you end up with what could be a large floating branch, do this with a few DNA match’s and you have a whole mass of unlinked branches.
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you can only have one tree linked to your DNA test(s) at any particular time.
That's disappointing. Ideally I would split my tree into two, the paternal and maternal lines as there is no crossover between the two.
I am not sure why you would want two distinct Trees.
Personally I would keep one tree and then in Software like Roots Magic I would sync the whole tree into a Roots Magic project, and then check for Problems, Duplicates and perform a Tree Count, these actions would clear any issues.
Then I would start a new Roots Magic Project, select Father in the whole tree and drag him into the new project.
Then do the same with the Mother.
I would add myself and set me as the home person, then upload both trees to Ancestry.
So now on Ancestry I would have the whole tree, a Paternal tree and a Maternal tree then I would swap over the DNA link to myself in each tree, keep it there for a while and swap over as often as required.
With a strong DNA match I build a tree in Ancestry around them until I find where we have a Common Ancestor(s). Once found I sync the Tree to a new project in Roots Magic and after error checking as prior, I drag the home person into my whole tree and merge the Common Ancestor(s). The DNA match and their tree is now part of my whole tree.
I then sync my Roots Magic whole tree back to my whole Ancestry tree.
If you build a DNA match in your Ancestry tree but fail to find a Common Ancestor(s) you end up with what could be a large floating branch, do this with a few DNA match’s and you have a whole mass of unlinked branches.
I have a single tree on Family Historian with myself as the root person. As I am an only child the whole tree is only of interest to me. For any of my relatives the interest will only be in half the tree: either my father's tree or my mother's tree. If I want to share the tree with a cousin, it's better to split the tree accordingly, so it's not clogged up with branches that are irrelevant to them.
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I have a single tree on Family Historian with myself as the root person. As I am an only child the whole tree is only of interest to me. For any of my relatives the interest will only be in half the tree: either my father's tree or my mother's tree. If I want to share the tree with a cousin, it's better to split the tree accordingly, so it's not clogged up with branches that are irrelevant to them.
When I need to do that, I either create a chart specifically relating to the branch I want to share, and/or create a report covering the relevant people, or export a Gedcom from FH for the people/branch of interest. But I want my tree whole.
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For my Cousins I set them as home person and view them, take a screen shot in both Pedigree and Tree Branch view and eMail the screenshots of the trees to the Cousins.
For each of my Cousins they are on the Family Tree and I have gone back at least 200 years on each of their parents who is not a blood relative so they do get a good tree and the resolution is good enough to print out and frame (having a 5k iMac or 4k PC monitor does help).
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QUOTE:
"The easiest way is link your matches is to use the Common Ancestor filter, this display will then only show DNA matches where a link between you has been proposed by the Ancestry software. The presented route is often cobbled together from multiple Trees that there are on Ancestry and hence care and validation of each person is really a good idea rather than blindly accepting what is presented as fully accurate. We have found many errors and missing generations on said presented routes."
This is pure gold! Thank you Biggles. :-*
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For my Cousins I set them as home person and view them, take a screen shot in both Pedigree and Tree Branch view and eMail the screenshots of the trees to the Cousins.
In Family Historian, which Sloe Gin and I are using, any individual in the tree can be set as the root person for creating a chart, and the resulting chart can be printed or saved as a PDF file. The resolution of resulting PDF files is excellent for clarity, even with large tree branches, and it is a trivial matter to hide certain individuals if necessary, e.g. sensitive in nature or living, before creating the tree. Similarly, reports or booklets, again printed or saved as PDF, RTF, plain text files etc. are trivial to produce on the fly, including citation and bibliography lists in various formats with inline references included in the main content.
Branches can be split off or copied to a new file for export or manipulation using the split tree helper function. It really is quite powerful software, which is why I am surprised that Sloe Gin apparently prefers to keep his maternal and paternal lines as two separate trees. When I share trees with relatives or DNA matches who I am corresponding with, I prefer to email them a copy of the relevant part of my tree or other information produced from FH, rather than sharing my Ancestry tree.
As I previously mentioned in this thread, my Ancestry tree only contains very basic information sufficient for hints, thrulines and common ancestor matching; no sources etc. I regularly upload new copies as my tree expands, so sharing my Ancestry tree is my least preferred option, as it would provide very little in the way of useful information and trying to keep track of individuals I had shared a particular copy with and asking if they still wanted access and/or migrating them to the latest version periodically would be a nightmare.
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QUOTE:
"The easiest way is link your matches is to use the Common Ancestor filter, this display will then only show DNA matches where a link between you has been proposed by the Ancestry software. The presented route is often cobbled together from multiple Trees that there are on Ancestry and hence care and validation of each person is really a good idea rather than blindly accepting what is presented as fully accurate. We have found many errors and missing generations on said presented routes."
This is pure gold! Thank you Biggles. :-*
You are welcome and thank you for the complimentary comment.
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QUOTE:
"The easiest way is link your matches is to use the Common Ancestor filter, this display will then only show DNA matches where a link between you has been proposed by the Ancestry software. The presented route is often cobbled together from multiple Trees that there are on Ancestry and hence care and validation of each person is really a good idea rather than blindly accepting what is presented as fully accurate. We have found many errors and missing generations on said presented routes."
This is pure gold! Thank you Biggles. :-*
You are welcome and thank you for the complimentary comment.
I have been struggling with making best use of my temporary access to Ancestry, and your tip isolated 3 people in USA who are all descended from siblings of my direct ancestor.
So it was VERY helpful to me.
Also, I may have been exceeding dense, but in case anyone else is still searching for "THRULINES" it is in the drop down menu from DNA. (Along the top!)
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Common ancestors works fine on my maternal side to an extent (all are through one particular line), but I get a lot of matches that make no sense at all. Somewhere someone told a few fibs and I can't work out who and when as my matches are too distant.
My paternal side is an even bigger nightmare, it looks as if the name I have for my grandfather is simply untrue though my 'grandparents' did live together and appear together in the 1921 census. Most of my unknown paternal matches are either Irish or have a lot of Irish connections but the matches rarely have trees and/or inactive. The same applies to the results on myheritage, 3rd-5th cousins mostly with trees full of entries with just a surname and private forename for generation after generation, no dates or places given and no replies to messages.
I've just had the results on ftDNA and again a large percentage seem to have links to Ireland though there are lots in the USA and Canada though they are mostly marked as 'less active', knowing my luck that means they added their results and vanished afterwards. Thereis one match who has 24 shared matches so maybe I might get lucky but I have a feeling the link is a short lived meeting my grandmother had at some point and it will be almost impossible to pin down who, where and when.