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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Devon => England => Devon Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Thorgils on Sunday 17 April 22 13:42 BST (UK)
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I was wondering if one of the kind posters of rootschat could give me some advice on the most effective, accurate or methodical approach of identifying the Father and Mother of Francis Roberts? If this is best put in another forum please let me know :)
Background: The only parents that I could see that would fit would be William and Mary Roberts whom baptized a Francis Roberts in Plymouth, St Andrew, Devon, England 1795. However my concern is that the christian name Francis appears in every generation for 200 years including my own father. It concerns me that I am missing something and perhaps all the family talk of french origin/channel islands are true, and during the excessive migration around the late 1700's from France they somehow alluded the traditional immigration documentation.
Francis Roberts (Customs house officer, Seaman)
B: 25 Dec 1794 - Navy records
Married: Grace Elizabeth Jasper: 24 Aug 1814 Stoke Damarel, Devon, England.(1834–1907)
D: Apr 1859 St George in the East,
Children:
Francis John James Roberts B: 4 May 1821 (1821–1861)
John Thomas Roberts B: 21 Jan 1827 (1827–1894)
Elizabeth Grace Roberts B: 17 Jan 1829 (1829–1909)
Frances Grace Roberts B: 18 Mar 1834 (1834–1907)
Any advice would be greatly appreciated
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B: 25 Dec 1794 - Navy records
It's on the record of his merchant navy seaman's ticket (1844) which also give his birthplace - Devonport (ties in with 1851 census).
Married: Grace Elizabeth Jasper: 24 Aug 1814
1813
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B: 25 Dec 1794 - Navy records
It's on the record of his merchant navy seaman's ticket (1844) which also give his birthplace - Devonport (ties in with 1851 census).
Married: Grace Elizabeth Jasper: 24 Aug 1814
1813
Thanks ShaunJ, I have searched for Devonport in 1795 and cannot find a record for Francis Roberts, was Devonport listed as something else? broaden my search to Devon?
whoops meant to write 1813
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Of course he could have been baptised anywhere (and the record may or may not have survived) or not baptised at all. The Plymouth baptism register entry is very brief and no birthdate is given.
On the plus side I couldn't find any subsequent record (census or military) of a Francis Roberts born in Plymouth circa 1795 so that is a pointer towards the Plymouth baptism being your man from Devonport.
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In case you don't have it, a Francis & Grace ROBERTS baptised a son, William Jesper 9 Jun 1816 at East Stonehouse and Henry Francis 2 Nov 1817 at Stoke Damerel (Devonport). William Jasper was buried at Stoke Damerel in 1820.
The areas of East Stonehouse and Stoke Damerel were all adjacent to Devonport (sometimes called Dock).
A William & Mary ROBERTS baptised other children - Mary in 1777, John in 1779, John in 1789 all at Stoke Damerel, and then Francis in 1795 and a daughter, Caroline Mary in 1800, both at Plymouth St Andrews. However, there are at least 2 couples names William & Mary ROBERTS married in the possible time frame!
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Hi DOB7,
No, I actually haven't found William or Henry thank you very much! Being Australian I don't really know much about the proximity of different parts of UK which has made things tricky.
Well that is very interesting!
Were you referring to:
Name: William Roberts
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 18 Jun 1766
Marriage Place: Stoke Damerel,Devon,England
Spouse:
Mary Grills
FHL Film Number: 916921
Name: William Roberts
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 31 May 1773
Marriage Place: Stoke Damerel,Devon,England
Spouse:
Mary Wolland
FHL Film Number: 916921
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.
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There is also a William Roberts married Mary Thomas 24 July 1774 at Stonehouse Devon.
Ref: ancestry
ADDED
Re: Family search there is a French Protestant Church in Stonehouse with records from 1692-1791
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The witnesses to the marriage of Francis and Grace were Mary Dunn and William Wordlock?
are they relatives?
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Hi DOB7,
No, I actually haven't found William or Henry thank you very much! Being Australian I don't really know much about the proximity of different parts of UK which has made things tricky.
Well that is very interesting!
Were you referring to:
Name: William Roberts
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 18 Jun 1766
Marriage Place: Stoke Damerel,Devon,England
Spouse:
Mary Grills
FHL Film Number: 916921
Name: William Roberts
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 31 May 1773
Marriage Place: Stoke Damerel,Devon,England
Spouse:
Mary Wolland
FHL Film Number: 916921
Thorgils - there are added complications regarding marriages. Depending on which couple gave birth to your Francis, there are also these possibilities:
18 May 1779 William ROBERTS (a shoemaker) = Mary LOYNES (of Tavistock) at Plymouth Charles
11 Nov 1787 William ROBERTS (a butcher) = Mary LANE at Plymouth St Andrew
All of these churches are within a very small area - Plymouth St Andrew & Plymouth Charles being the 'mother' churches, with the dockyard churches being Stoke Damerel and East Stonehouse. The area was known as 'The three towns of Plymouth, Devonport and Stonehouse. Have a look at https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/Plymouth/Lewis1831 and https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/Plymouth
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ame: William Roberts
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 18 Jun 1766
Marriage Place: Stoke Damerel, Devon, England
Spouse:
Mary Grills
FHL Film Number: 916921
Name: William Roberts
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 31 May 1773
Marriage Place: Stoke Damerel, Devon, England
Spouse:
Mary Wolland
FHL Film Number: 916921
18 May 1779 William ROBERTS (a shoemaker) = Mary LOYNES (of Tavistock) at Plymouth Charles
11 Nov 1787 William ROBERTS (a butcher) = Mary LANE at Plymouth St Andrew
24 July 1774 William Roberts married Mary Thomas at Stonehouse Devon.
So were up to five options now yikes!
Mary Dunn and William Wordlock don't appear to be related to anyone that I'm aware of.
I'm still trying to post these generation to give a better idea of how it looks but not having much success posting the JPEG grrrr
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Hi DOB7,
No, I actually haven't found William or Henry thank you very much! Being Australian I don't really know much about the proximity of different parts of UK which has made things tricky.
Well that is very interesting!
Were you referring to:
Name: William Roberts
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 18 Jun 1766
Marriage Place: Stoke Damerel,Devon,England
Spouse:
Mary Grills
FHL Film Number: 916921
Name: William Roberts
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 31 May 1773
Marriage Place: Stoke Damerel,Devon,England
Spouse:
Mary Wolland
FHL Film Number: 916921
Thorgils - there are added complications regarding marriages. Depending on which couple gave birth to your Francis, there are also these possibilities:
18 May 1779 William ROBERTS (a shoemaker) = Mary LOYNES (of Tavistock) at Plymouth Charles
11 Nov 1787 William ROBERTS (a butcher) = Mary LANE at Plymouth St Andrew
All of these churches are within a very small area - Plymouth St Andrew & Plymouth Charles being the 'mother' churches, with the dockyard churches being Stoke Damerel and East Stonehouse. The area was known as 'The three towns of Plymouth, Devonport and Stonehouse. Have a look at https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/Plymouth/Lewis1831 and https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/DEV/Plymouth
Thanks mate, I'll take a look. The plot thickens yikes!
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Since I cant seem to post an image this is the only way I can seem to post the tree so far.
William Roberts + Mary Roberts
Possible Children:
Mary Roberts
B:1777 Stoke Dameral, Devonport,County, England
John Roberts
B:1779 Stoke Dameral, Devonport,County, England
John Roberts
B:1789 Stoke Dameral, Devonport,County, England
Caroline Mary Roberts
B:1800
Francis Roberts - Sailor, Customs House Officer
B:25 Dec 1794 Devonport, Devonshire, Devon, England
D:14 Apr 1859 St George in the East, London, United Kingdom
Francis Roberts + Grace Jasper:
Possible Children:
William Jesper Roberts
B:09 Jun 1816 East Stonehouse, Devon, England
D:Abt. 1820 Stoke Dameral, Devonport, Devon, England
Henry Francis Roberts
B:02 Nov 1817 East Stonehouse, Devon, England
D:June 1857 London, United Kingdom
Francis John James Roberts
B:4 May 1821 Middlesex, England
D:1861 Boston, Massachusetts
Elizabeth Grace Roberts
B:17 jan 1829 St George in the East, London, England
D:06 feb 1909
Frances Grace Roberts
B:19 March 1834 St George in the East, London, middlesex,England
D:1907 Wandsworth, London, UK
John Thomas Roberts - Sailor, Miner, Farmer
B:21 Jan 1827 Elmham, Kent, England
D:5 MAR 1894 'Homedale', Wagga Wagga, New South Wales, Australia
Possibles:
18 Jun 1766 William ROBERTS married Mary GRILLS = Stoke Damerel, Devon, England
31 May 1773 William ROBERTS married Mary WOLLAND = Stoke Damerel, Devon, England
24 July 1774 William ROBERTS married Mary THOMAS = Stonehouse Devon.
18 May 1779 William ROBERTS (a shoemaker) = Mary LOYNES (of Tavistock) at Plymouth Charles
11 Nov 1787 William ROBERTS (a butcher) = Mary LANE at Plymouth St Andrew
20% chance if I take a guess :P
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Is the son John Thomas ROBERTS a clue? One of the Williams married a Mary THOMAS.
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Is the son John Thomas ROBERTS a clue? One of the Williams married a Mary THOMAS.
I hadn't thought of that???
The same names do tend to turn up constantly in every generation:
John Thomas
William John
Francis Henry
Frances Grace
Grace
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There is also a William Roberts married Mary Thomas 24 July 1774 at Stonehouse Devon.
Ref: ancestry
ADDED
Re: Family search there is a French Protestant Church in Stonehouse with records from 1692-1791
Just been doing some reading via a poster called cemetery friends:
The main church St Andrew's allowed the Huguenots to use the church "out of hours" and they entered some of their events, baptisms etc at the back of the C of E registers. Adjacent was the parish in East Stonehouse [which in modern times merged into Plymouth]. East Stonehouse had many Huguenot settlers probably more than St Andrew's in Plymouth. The East Stonehouse entries are entered into the IGI (as of Jan 1993): French Episcopal Church Christenings 1692-1791.
Perhaps this would be the french connection?
Cemetery friends goes on to say:
There was no list or record of refugees landing. It is just possible that you may discover the marriage of the parents but that may have been elsewhere before they landed. The main batch of Huguenot refugees from the CI's landed and worshiped at St Julien's French Church Southampton and it is slightly unusual for any to head to Plymouth but perfectly possible but Weymouth in Dorset and Southampton in Hampshire were favoured.
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Not sure why you think there is a French connection. The surname ROBERTS is very English and the forename Francis was very popular in Devon because of Sir Francis DRAKE and his connections to the area.
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A very long held family belief but ultimately we’ve never seen any real evidence to support this so you’re probably right. Certainly I hope that our family has a long history in the UK, this would make the family history tracking a great deal easier, though I’ve never been able discern Francis’s parents, I should imagine it’s next to impossible to track the escape migrations from France but also BDM information.
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Not sure if this is helpful:
I have noted also the there are a couple of entries in the UK, Register of Duties Paid for Apprentices' Indentures, 1710-1811 for a Wm Roberts. "cabinet maker" and I cant make our the other profession Newke, Hewke, Heuke, Neuke?
Name
Wm Roberts
Payment Date
10 Feb 1792
Residence Location
Plymouth, Devon
Household - 2
Name
Wm Roberts
Payment Date
25 Apr 1788
Residence Location
Plymouth, Devon
Household - 2
UK directories 1680-1830 also show:
Name: William Roberts
Dates: 1776-1800
Location: Plymouth Dock
Occupation: Agent financial/brokering services
Gender: Male
Address:Plymouth Dock
Source Date:1784
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The 1788 apprenticeship is for William ROBERTS apprenticed to John MILLER a cabinetmaker. The 1792 apprenticeship is for a William ROBERTS apprenticed to Daniel WITHERALL a perukemaker (maker of wigs). I doubt either of these would be your William as they would likely have been young boys and too young to have Francis in 1795. There's also a 1767 apprenticeship for a Christopher HANDLEY, to William ROBERTS (master) a whitesmith in Stoke Damerel.
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Thank you DOB7 a fountain of information as usual.
Wigmaker, I would never have worked that one out.
I assume a whitesmith is someone that predominantly work white metal? Tin or some-such?
So based I what we know we seem to be leaning towards the marriage highlighted in red. I have tried in vane to find sailor records for William Roberts due to the next 2 generations involved in seafaring however again I found little evidence.
18 Jun 1766 William ROBERTS married Mary GRILLS = Stoke Damerel, Devon, England
31 May 1773 William ROBERTS married Mary WOLLAND = Stoke Damerel, Devon, England
24 July 1774 William ROBERTS married Mary THOMAS = Stonehouse Devon.
18 May 1779 William ROBERTS (a shoemaker) = Mary LOYNES (of Tavistock) at Plymouth Charles
11 Nov 1787 William ROBERTS (a butcher) = Mary LANE at Plymouth St Andrew