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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Hampshire & Isle of Wight => England => Hampshire & IOW Lookup Requests => Topic started by: cguil_uk on Friday 15 April 22 12:41 BST (UK)
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I am looking for information (including their families) on -
My 2nd GGF JAMES HAYDEN
1806–1848
BIRTH 1806 ??
DEATH OCTOBER 1848 Isle of Wight, Southampton, England
Occupation - Pilot
Spouse - JEMIMA COOKE
BIRTH 1810 Isle of Wight, Hampshire, England
DEATH JUN 1892 Isle of Wight, England, United Kingdom
My 3rd GGF - WILLIAM HAYDEN
1785– ?? Death??
Spouse - HANNA DRAPER
1787–1862
BIRTH 1787 St Helens, Hampshire, England
DEATH 04 AUG 1862 Isle of Wight, Hampshire, England
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Presumably you have them on census :-\
ADDED. You really need to be more specific about what information you are after on them and their families so we don't spend our time looking for what you already know :)
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I think you may have made an incorrect assumption about William's wife Hannah. 1851 census entry records her as a widow, and 'Formerly Draper.' The 1841 census records her as a Linen Draper. Her maiden name is not Draper, that is her occupation.
It looks like William may have died before 1841.
Nell
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Good spot Nell :)
Perhaps this marriage in Whippingham from familysearch, though a bit late
William Hayden
Hannah Searle
Spouse's Sex Female
Marriage Date 4 Aug 1812
Marriage Place Whippingham, Hampshire
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Hi,
Just to save some time :)
It was a few years ago but a lot of research about this has already been done here,
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=794899.0
Regards,
Daisy
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Thank you Daisy, it seems I did a lot of work on it then and there was no response to my last post :-\.
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Regardless of what was handed to you from work done by your aunt - Hannah Hayden was never married but was a mother to James bp.19/9/1805 St. Helens, Hampshire (as well as aunt to another James bp.30/6/1805 Brading, Hampshire, son of James and Elizabeth).
Her death and 1861 census confirm she was unmarried and bc.1787 St. Helens, Hampshire and thus, as was given to you 4 years ago, Hannah was bp.23/4/1786 St. Helens, Hampshire, dau. of William and Deborah (nee Hollis, married 1776 St. Helens).
There was no Hannah Draper - this is unmarried Hannah Hayden who was a draper by occupation.
Annette
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Thank you Daisy, it seems I did a lot of work on it then and there was no response to my last post :-\.
Sorry about that - I have been having a few personal problems over the past few years and have been out of the loop. As a result, I completely forgot that I had asked before. I did try to get the admin to delete this post when I realized. Thank you for all your help guys it was very wrong of me not to respond.
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Hi,
Just to save some time :)
It was a few years ago but a lot of research about this has already been done here,
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=794899.0
Regards,
Daisy
Thank you for all your help it was very wrong of me not to respond.
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Presumably you have them on census :-\
ADDED. You really need to be more specific about what information you are after on them and their families so we don't spend our time looking for what you already know :)
The double ?? is what I am after :-D
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Since you have Hannah's exact date of death, have you obtained the death certificate to see who was the informant and whether it says that she was the widow of William Hayden or something else? The informant might be a family member, in which case the relationship will be shown.
Does her address - if it is specific enough - on the death certificate match with her residence on 1861 census?
Also the date of death matches that in the probate registry for a will for Hannah Hayden, spinster. The IoW BDM index only shows one Hannah Hayden dying in that year.
So are you satisfied that
- the Hannah Hayden shown on the 1841 census living in Sea View with Jemima Hayden (and presumably her children George, Walter, Deborah, Emily, Frederick ref HO107/406 Bk 2/23 p 11
- the Hannah Hayden, a widow, shown on 1851 census, living at the Old Fort, Sea View, St Helens, ref: HO107/1664/69 p 15
- and Hannah Hayden on 1861 census living with James Hayden at High Street, Brading, listed as unmarried ref: RG9/659/51/7
are the same person?
If so, then you have some contradictions to resolve. 1841 shows no relationships or marital status; 1851 has her as a widow; 1861 has her as single. The evidence found and posted on this thread and your previous thread strongly suggest that Hannah was never married and that James was illegitimate. Obtaining the will (£1.50 from: https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/ might help you. Whatever your relative might have thought or been told, the documentary evidence from parish register entries found so far, census and the probate calendar entry is pointing to something else.
There would be no point in anyone looking for a marriage if Hannah who died 4 Aug 1862 was really a spinster, because they would fail. Likewise, looking for William's death may well be fruitless if he never existed. While death certificates sometimes contain incorrect information, it is usually a matter of the age being incorrect. In 1861, her nephew (who was responsible for completing the census form or informing the enumerator of the details of his household) put Hannah down as unmarried.
May I suggest that you follow that up before looking for someone who might never have existed or married Hannah.
Jemima's children can be tracked through the census and the IoW BMD index (post 1837 https://www.isle-of-wight-fhs.co.uk/databases/bmd), but beware, Hayden is a common name.
Have you obtained James' will from TNA? Reference is PROB 11/2079/240, pr 28 Aug 1848. It can currently be downloaded free of charge if you have an account with TNA (register for an account if necessary).
Nell
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Since you have Hannah's exact date of death, have you obtained the death certificate to see who was the informant and whether it says that she was the widow of William Hayden or something else? The informant might be a family member, in which case the relationship will be shown.
Does her address - if it is specific enough - on the death certificate match with her residence on 1861 census?
Also the date of death matches that in the probate registry for a will for Hannah Hayden, spinster. The IoW BDM index only shows one Hannah Hayden dying in that year.
So are you satisfied that
- the Hannah Hayden shown on the 1841 census living in Sea View with Jemima Hayden (and presumably her children George, Walter, Deborah, Emily, Frederick ref HO107/406 Bk 2/23 p 11
- the Hannah Hayden, a widow, shown on 1851 census, living at the Old Fort, Sea View, St Helens, ref: HO107/1664/69 p 15
- and Hannah Hayden on 1861 census living with James Hayden at High Street, Brading, listed as unmarried ref: RG9/659/51/7
are the same person?
If so, then you have some contradictions to resolve. 1841 shows no relationships or marital status; 1851 has her as a widow; 1861 has her as single. The evidence found and posted on this thread and your previous thread strongly suggest that Hannah was never married and that James was illegitimate. Obtaining the will (£1.50 from: https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/ might help you. Whatever your relative might have thought or been told, the documentary evidence from parish register entries found so far, census and the probate calendar entry is pointing to something else.
There would be no point in anyone looking for a marriage if Hannah who died 4 Aug 1862 was really a spinster, because they would fail. Likewise, looking for William's death may well be fruitless if he never existed. While death certificates sometimes contain incorrect information, it is usually a matter of the age being incorrect. In 1861, her nephew (who was responsible for completing the census form or informing the enumerator of the details of his household) put Hannah down as unmarried.
May I suggest that you follow that up before looking for someone who might never have existed or married Hannah.
Jemima's children can be tracked through the census and the IoW BMD index (post 1837 https://www.isle-of-wight-fhs.co.uk/databases/bmd), but beware, Hayden is a common name.
Have you obtained James' will from TNA? Reference is PROB 11/2079/240, pr 28 Aug 1848. It can currently be downloaded free of charge if you have an account with TNA (register for an account if necessary).
Nell
Thank you I will try to follow up on this :-D