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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: RLR500 on Thursday 14 April 22 17:40 BST (UK)
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Trying to find death records and location for William John JAMISON, born @1848. (he may have been born in Scotland, or Belfast, it is not known).
Married Mary Jane BOAL (b. Belfast @1848) at the Agnes St Presbyterian Church, Belfast, 15 May 1872.
Mary Jane was probably already pregnant, and that may be the reason they immediately left Belfast for Glasgow where Wllm John JAMISON had work as a Mercantile Clerk.
They had 4 sons - Robert b. 25 Dec 1872; Joseph b. 3 Dec 1873; Wllm Henry b. 12 Feb 1876; Thomas b. 12 June 1877. All born and baptised in Glasgow.
Home address was 16 Rowchester St, Bridgeton, Glasgow.
I cannot find them in the 1881 Scotland Census.
And no further records until the 1901 IRELAND Census where wife Mary Jane is living in Candahar St, Belfast with sons Robert (28) and Wllm Henry (25) both working as commercial clerks. The census (completed by eldest son Robert so I assume it's correct) states that Mary Jane is 'married' (not widowed).
Mary Jane BOAL Jamison dies 22 Nov 1910 at the home of her eldest son Robert at 30 Indiana Ave, Belfast.
(All the IRELAND facts/records I can confirm as 100%)
So trying to find out what happened to William John JAMISON.
Did he die in Glasgow - which would explain why Mary Jane goes back (maybe before the 1881 census but certainly before 1901) to her home in Belfast with her children? Or did William John abandon them and carry on living in Scotland?
Would appreciate very much any help with this mystery. We have been researching for decades - and no one in my family tree has found the answers. Thank you :-)
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Was he William Henry or William John? His marriage notice in Belfast shows him as William John.
You have a note of son Joseph's death in Glasgow?
JOSEPH JAMISON
Age 2
Mother's maiden name BOAL
1875
644/2 251
Camlachie
Monica
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No mention of father being deceased when son Robert married in 1908 was there? https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1908/10069/5662610.pdf
Although he did show as deceased when Mary Boal died in 1910
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1910/05414/4512943.pdf
With him showing as working as a commercial traveller, I wonder if this is why you didn't find him with the family in 1901?
Hard to say really with the info available isn't it :-\
Monica
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Monica!
Thank you. And how embarrassing for me to get his NAME WRONG!! Arghhh! Confused myself :-0
Yes, it is indeed William JOHN Jamison and his son is William Henry. I have corrected the post.
And what a star for finding Joseph's death at 2yrs. I had thought he made it to adulthood as I found another marriage later but had not confirmed it. So this is a bonus. Thank you :-)
Kind Regards, Rachael
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Hi Rachael
Just some new possibilities you could consider further to follow up...
I think I have potentially identified two brothers for William John. Both came over from Ireland and married Glasgow born women.
Hard to be more certain at the moment as so far we only have William John's father as Joseph, a Storekeeper. William John showing as Grocer and Druggist on his marriage reg in 1872 https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1872/11304/8147619.pdf
Later registrations for chidren and death of wife show him as a commercial traveller don't they?
Rachael, has anyone had any success tracing further William's family (parents/siblings)?
Monica
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First potential brother was a Joseph Paterson Jamison, born mid 1850s in Ireland.
He married Mary Anderson Dick in Glasgow in 1874. No family names for him as witnesses. His parents are given as Joseph Jamieson, Grocer Master, and Jane Pa(t)terson. Neither are noted as deceased.
In 1891, the family is living in Denistoun area of Glasgow:
Joseph Jamieson 35 Drapers Traveller b. Ireland
Mary Jamieson 34 b. Glasgow
Jeannie Jamieson 15
Joseph Jamieson 13
James Jamieson 7
Hugh Jamieson 5
Catherine Jamieson 3
William D Jamieson 11 months
Address: 257 Duke St, Glasgow
In 1901, the family are living at 8 Somerville Place, Glasgow/Calton. Joseph is showing as a Draper. A few more children in the household: Alexander 9, Mary 7 and Rachel 2.
Joseph I think died on 19 Nov 1934. There is a corresponding death reg for a 78 year old Joseph in 1934 in Cathcart.
Monica
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Just seen there is a family tree for your line on A/try www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/107164619/person/290194048698/facts (a subs is needed to be able to view).
Noticed that it shows the family address for William John and wife Mary as 16 Rowchester St, Bridgeton in the 1870s when their children were being born.
This is the address that Joseph gave as his residence at the time of his marriage in 1874...which helps a lot when trying to find connections/verifications!
Monica
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The other brother was David.
Possible for his birth:
David Jamieson
Birth 26 Mar 1865 Ballylesson, Down, Ireland
Parents Joseph Jamieson and Jane Patterson
David married Annie Frame in 1889 in the Dennistoun area. By this time, parents Joseph Jamieson and Jane Patterson are both showing as deceased. A Robert Jamieson was a witness...a further brother?
1891 entry:
David Jamieson 25 cloth finisher b. Ireland
Annie Jamieson 19 b. Glasgow
Alexander Jamieson 1
Address: 3 Glenpark St, Glasgow/Camlachie
For 1901, the family are down in Broughton area in Lancashire:
David Jameson 31 cloth finisher b. BELFAST, Ireland
Annie Jameson 28
Alexander Jameson 11
Joseph Jameson 7
William Jameson 3
Elizabeth Jameson 1
Monica
Added: If you have access Rachael, a family tree for David here www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/181679551/person/172367742497/facts
Also one for Joseph, brother www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/159415911/person/192087047959/facts
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A Robert Jamieson was a witness...a further brother?
Not only a brother to David, but his twin ::)
Birth reg for the two boys here https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03577/2318353.pdf
Store keeper was also how Joseph was described on William John's marriage reg.
Parents' marriage in 1847 in Lisburn https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1847/09331/5379023.pdf
Monica
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Monica! What a whole load of amazing info and detail! So I spent most of today going down a completely different rabbit hole in looking for Joseph Jamison/Jamieson...... and have just deleted it all. Your trail seems so much more promising - the KEY link was the residence 16 Rowchester St Glasgow on David Jamieson marriage in 1874.
And the interesting fact of the twins...... my g/grandfather Robert Jamison had twins! (my grandmother).
But I have not been able to link William John to Joseph Jamieson and Jane Patterson.
I found Joseph Jamison and Jane Patterson marriage - Drumbo Parish Church, Co Down 13 Dec 1847. And Jane's age was 20 (b 1827) on this marriage record which makes it more plausible for her to have the twins at age 38 (not 45 if you look at other trees and sources which have her as older than Joseph).
There are 3 other ancestry trees that have Joseph and Jane - but only with Joseph Jr and the twins..... noone else has Wllm John as their first child.
Sigh. And the records start too late for his birth in 1848/9.
Do you have any way of searching church records back then? If they married in Drumbo Church Co Down and Wllm John was born 1 year later - perhaps his birth/baptism was recorded there as well?
I am sorry I don't know how to include a link (like you have). i am still learning how to use this site.
Re: Ancestry.com site. Yes I am a paid up member (15yrs plus) and the tree link that you posted was my cousin Robert (a Jamison descendant) and he copies everything from me.
So the answer is no - we have not found William John's family - nor has anyone else on Ancestry. My tree is fairly comprehensive and I try hard to get all my facts sourced and checked.... but this link has me stumped.
You have been marvelous! I don't know how you keep it all straight - it makes my head spin and I know all these people/names etc.!!
I would love to confirm all of this... and am still hoping that it may lead to a burial location for my g/grandfather Robert Jamison b 25 Dec 1872 Glasgow d 26 Apr 1921 (I made another post in the graveyard section asking for help with Knockbreda Cemetery Belfast records - I think he may be buried there?).
I better stop here before this turns into a novel! Thank you so very much. This has been eye opening! :-)
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Has this death been checked as a possibility...
JAMIESON WILLIAM JOHN 70 - 1919 - 644/6 158 Springburn (Glasgow)
Annie
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Annie, Thanks for this. I checked it out - seems so perfect doesn't with the middle name and all - but the parents don't match and neither does his wife. So its not him.
His wife, Mary Jane BOAL Jamison - was back in Ireland with her two grown unmarried sons (Robert and Wllm Henry) for the 1901 Ireland Census.
So we think that either William John was travelling for work - or was deceased by then. But the 1901 Census has Mary Jane as married.
Mary Jane died 22 Nov 1910, as a widow, at her son's residence at 30 Indiana St Belfast.
Would love to find her burial ground - as we think that is where we will find her son Robert (my g grandfather) who passed away at 47yrs old in 1921.
No one has ever known where he was buried. There are no online records.
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I found Joseph Jamison and Jane Patterson marriage - Drumbo Parish Church, Co Down 13 Dec 1847. And Jane's age was 20 (b 1827) on this marriage record which makes it more plausible for her to have the twins at age 38 (not 45 if you look at other trees and sources which have her as older than Joseph).
There are 3 other ancestry trees that have Joseph and Jane - but only with Joseph Jr and the twins..... noone else has Wllm John as their first child.
Never, ever, trust anything you find online unless it's an image or an original document. In particular, do not trust trees submitted to Ancestry or any of the other commercial web sites. Use them as an aid to proper research.
What happens is that someone puts together a tree without researching it properly, so it contains errors. Other people come along, find it, copy it and attach it to their own tree without bothering to check, and before long you can have dozens, if not hundreds, of trees, all containing the same wrong information.
See https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=619657 for a classic example of this.
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Yes thank you. Agree 100% and that has been my golden rule throughout my last 15yrs of ancestry research. :)
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...the KEY link was the residence 16 Rowchester St Glasgow on David Jamieson marriage in 1874...
It was Joseph who married in 1874 and gave his address as 16 Rowchester Street.
Brother David married in 1889....as did twin Robert! Robert married an Ellen Mackin in Paisley. The family in 1891:
Robert Jamieson 25 Calenderman b. Ireland
Ellen Jamieson 23 b. Ireland
Joseph Jamieson 7 months b. Paisley
Address: 27 Gt Hamilton St, Paisley
Both baby Joseph and Ellen died in 1892. Ellen in Paisley and Joseph, aged 2, in Camlachie, Glasgow. At a guess, Ellen died first and Robert needed help looking after his toddler son, Joseph? Twin David was living at 3 Glenpark St, Glasgow/Camlachie in 1891 wasn't he.
Monica
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Typing in bed late at night - Joseph not David. !!
Will look at this now. TY
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Yes thank you. Agree 100% and that has been my golden rule throughout my last 15yrs of ancestry research. :)
Sounds like you know what you are doing ;)
I am not sure you will find a document for William John that will include his mother's name, but there is now plenty of circumstantial info that points to her having likely been Jane Paterson, wife of Joseph Jamieson, a grocer/storekeeper (and in son David's marriage cert. also a farmer).
You have confirmed on William John's 1872 marriage that his father was a Storekeeper. William John's occupation at the time of his marriage was showing as Grocer and Druggist. Just adding below how father, and parents from the Scottish regs, were showing for William and potentially his his three brothers (t.b.c. but pencil getting a little stronger ::)) Joseph, David and Robert. See below in order of years, all from marriage regs.:
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Working through this info, Joseph and Jane look to have died between 1874 when they showed as not deceased and 1889 when they showed as deceased on sons' marriages.
I have had no luck finding their deaths so far.
Monica
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Yes I was just working on their deaths also - and as neither of them were living with the sons during the 1891 census records - so I am assuming for now death for both of them 1880s.
And Paterson was such a popular name in Glasgow - and some prominent families also - which is a distraction as Jamison’s were well to do in a modest way - but not the fancy Jamison, Paterson Merchant Company I keep finding in the 1860s and 1870s. Was that the Wllm Paterson who founded the Bank of England? Can’t be connected to him.
I just wish I could connect the Joseph and Jane Paterson that had the twins and Joseph with the couple who had William Henry.
I have been through city directories, army enlistments, electoral rolls and census.
I feel now the only place that it might be is church records.
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JAMIESON WILLIAM JOHN 70 - 1919 - 644/6 158 Springburn (Glasgow)
Annie, Thanks for this. I checked it out - seems so perfect doesn't with the middle name and all - but the parents don't match and neither does his wife. So its not him.
His wife, Mary Jane BOAL Jamison - was back in Ireland with her two grown unmarried sons (Robert and Wllm Henry) for the 1901 Ireland Census.
So we think that either William John was travelling for work - or was deceased by then. But the 1901 Census has Mary Jane as married.
Mary Jane died 22 Nov 1910, as a widow, at her son's residence at 30 Indiana St Belfast.
Would love to find her burial ground - as we think that is where we will find her son Robert (my g grandfather) who passed away at 47yrs old in 1921.
No one has ever known where he was buried. There are no online records.
Please can you transcribe the info. on the above DC.
You just never know if there may be a connection in some way which (if all info. is on here) will be picked up in a google search & may lead to more/other family connections?
I believe, it's a good thing to have info. (which we think isn't connected) put out there just in case.
I recall many yrs ago, I had a cert. I'd purchased which (at the time) didn't seem to be connected but on going through the usual (tying up loose ends) at a later date, it turned out to be for someone (unknown to me at the time), connected to my own family after all although not the connection I'd been looking for at the time!
Annie
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1910. Twenty second November. 30 Indiana Avenue. Mary Jane Jamison. F. Widow. 62 years. Widow of William John Jamison, a commercial traveller. Carcinoma of stomach, 9 months, exhaustion, certified. Robert Jamison, son, present at death, 30 Indiana Avenue.
This being an Irish death cert, you are lucky that her occupation names and describes her husband :) Normally they don't name the spouse.