RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: doolittle72 on Thursday 14 April 22 13:55 BST (UK)
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Hello Rootschatters of County Down,.
I believe the records of Ballyroney Presbyterian Church only go back as far as 1831. Is this the date when the church was formed, and if so, where would they have worshipped prior to that date? I need earlier records than there are available online. Would they have to have their baptisms and marriages carried out in the Church of Ireland or elsewhere?
Doolittle72
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https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~rosdavies/genealogy/PHOTOSwords/DrumballyroneyAll.htm#ballyp
The old church was built in 1708; graveyard attached.
PRONI has Ballyroney Presbyterian baptisms, 1819-63; marriages, 1818-29 and 1833-1906; MIC1P/168 and CR3/30.
https://rootsireland.ie/down/online-sources.php
has transcriptions for baptisms 1818-1900, marriages 1783-1801 & marriages, 1845-1925; burials, 1865-1920.
Consult https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/publications/guide-church-records for other churches and https://www.presbyterianhistoryireland.com/our-services/family-history/
"Until 1782 it was illegal for Presbyterian ministers to conduct marriages and not until 1845 were all restrictions lifted on marriages performed by Presbyterian ministers. Therefore it is always advisable to check the registers of the local Church of Ireland parish up to the early 19th century."
PRONI show C.I. Drumballyroney (Dromore diocese) Baptisms & marriages from 1838.
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Hi
I have looked at Ros Davies' site and it has been very useful. Since the Prebyterian Church was not permitted to carry out marriages and the other restrictions were not lifted until the 1830's does anyone know where their marriages and baptisms were carried out? Also if there was a churchyard at the original church since it was built, where would the records be kept (if there were any)?
Doolittle
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graveyard attached
You are perhaps misinterpreting. Yes up until 1782 it was illegal for Presbyterian ministers to conduct marriages, but there followed a hazy area as it was only with the start of Civil registration 1845 that it was clearly stated that they were legally recognised. Many did marry in the Presbyterian church say in the 1820's, but if there was a dispute they could be considered invalid. That did not apply to baptisms. A child is legitimised by virtue of parents marriage, not by baptism.
See right hand column on https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/ancestral-records.html
If you refer to the Ros Davies church link you will see that the present Drumballyroney Church of Ireland, St. John's, was built in the year 1780. However the PRONI guide only shows microfilm coverage from 1838. The the Church of Ireland's own guide says baptism, marriage and burial registers exist from 1831 (No colour) = Parishes the records of which records remain in local custody with some coverage on RootsIreland; as listed in their source link (above).
https://www.ireland.anglican.org/cmsfiles/pdf/AboutUs/library/registers/ParishRegisters/PARISHREGISTERS.pdf
PRONI does not have burial info for Ballyroney Presby and the Presbyterian Historical Society direct researchers primarilly to there; they do not hold any for Ballyroney. RootsIreland has burial transcriptions form 1865.
"As very few Presbyterian churches had or have a graveyard attached, the practice of recording burials was not widespread and the number of registers recording these details are few." Few Presbyterian congregations have very old burial registers (to Congregational Records).
Burial records are generally very uninformative, be they Presbyterian or C of I, up to the 1850's, often they just say Mary Little buried 1 Aug 1825 with no age and so no way of knowing if was a child, mother, or grandmother.
"Burial registers can be fairly uninformative, with the name of the deceased, the date of burial and occasionally the occupation and age at death given."
https://www.presbyterianhistoryireland.com/collections/library/guide-to-congregational-records/
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Hello
I have a record and a photograph of George Allen and other dignitaries at the opening of the Ballyroney Presbyterian Church. I have no date for the image, which must have been before 1929 when George died. George Allen was the owner of Mount Panther. It would seem that he was a generous donor to the young church. Please can you confirm the date of the opening.
It would be good to know if George was then buried in the church graveyard.
Thank you, in advance,
Mary of New Zealand
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"The new meeting-house was opened on 26 Jan.1929" - A History of Congregations in the Presbyterian Church in Ireland 1610-1982.
Added- However, George Allen died shortly before that- "Allen George of Mountpanther Clough county Down esquire J.P. died 12 January 1929 Administration Belfast 31 May to Robert Samuel Hunter gentleman. Effects £73883 7s. 7d."
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Newspaper snippet-
Belfast Telegraph, 28 Jan.1929: (Left to right) Mr. George Allen, J.P.; Sir Joseph Davison, Rev. J.H. Orr (Hillsborough) and Mr. George Hobart (architect), who were present at the opening of Ballyroney Presbyterian Church”
Numerous newspaper articles in 1929 report the death of George Allen of Mountpanther and the auction of his property.
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George Allen was the owner of Mount Panther.
Mount Panther to the south of Clough, Co Down.
See map attachment.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4638547#map=17/54.27724/-5.84314
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Lots online about Mountpanther House-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Panther
http://lordbelmontinnorthernireland.blogspot.com/2013/09/mount-panther.html
https://mountpanther.com/
https://www.archiseek.com/2015/1740-mount-panther-clough-co/
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Thank you for supplying the opening date of the Church. It seems that the newspapers meant that the PHOTOGRAPH was at the opening ceremony, if not all of the pictured men. Clearly the part George Allen played in the existence of the church needed to be celebrated. Our family knowledge contains detail of how he offered financial support to several churches.
I hope to find George’s burial place. It is not in the usual family vaults and
I cannot now locate the computer-generated newspaper article since I have taken out a reading subscription.
Mary