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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Greaves on Thursday 14 April 22 12:31 BST (UK)
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I would appreciate some help in adding some flesh to the little I already know about Alice DANIELS (1869-1953).
Alice was born 01 Sep 1869 to George Thomas DANIELS and Catherine DANIELS (née CONNELLY) at Scholefield Road, Holloway. Her mother was a Catholic, who died very young aged only 22 in 1872 of enteric fever.
In 1871 census, Alice and her elder sister, Rosina, are residing at Scholefield Road with their parents.
By 1881, George Thomas had remarried (though no certificate has been found) to Mary Ann Taplin. The family consisting of George, Mary Ann, Rosina, Alice (11) and 4 children from the second marriage are living at the Grove in Hornsey.
In 1891 Alice (21) has left her father's home and is living with her Grandparents, Charles and Eliza Daniels, at Cromwell Road, Islington. She is described as single and a general servant.
The next we hear is in October 1899, when she is in the workhouse and described as a "dancer".
There follows a number of reports in various newspapers, including the Islington Gazette, of a suicide attempt using poison in October 1899. Alice (30) is described as an "actress" of Fairmead Road, Holloway. According to the reports - and extra details are found in some reports - she was living with an unnamed man of "foreign appearance". There is also a mention of a female child aged 2 years. The unnamed man was apparently not the father. She was sent a charitable home under the care of a Mr Holmes. This opens many mysteries concerning: the child, the unnamed man and the home.
In 1901, Alice (30) appears to be a boarder at Retcar Street in St Pancras. She is now a charwoman. There is no listing for her daughter.
In 1909, Alice (44) is again in the headlines. Apparently, assuming this is her, she has been thrown out of a house in Rosina Street in Homerton by a man she had been cohabiting with and taken revenge by breaking all his windows. Again mysteries: who is the man and where is her daughter? I don't think the man is the William DOWER mentioned as he is the owner of the house rather than the tennant.
In 1911, I can't find Alice anywhere.
In January 1918, she marries a Philip James CANNELL, some 20 years her senior, in Camden Town. And the 1921 census finds them living in St John's Park in Islington.
Her husband dies in December 1931. In the 1931 Register she is living at Warrender Road in Islington with Kate HILTON. Both women are described as "incapacitated". I have no idea about Kate HILTON.
Finally Alice dies on 14 Jan 1953 at Warrender Road. I have her death certificate, but can't find a burial.
So I have found out a fair bit about her life, but there are massive chunks missing. Her life as a dancer/actress is a mystery. Her daughter born c1896 is a another mystery, as are her various "relationships" prior to her marriage. Finally I am unclear about her life between the death of her husband and her own death.
As I said at the start, some help is need in adding a flesh to what I think is an interesting framework.
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Looking at Daniels births with no mmn on GRO online between 1896-1898 doesn't throw up many in the London(ish) area
Jessie - Dec qtr 1897 Edmonton
Stella Olive Popple - March 1898 Croydon
Jane Florence Dec 1896 Chelmsford
That assumes the child was registered as Daniels ???
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In January 1918, she marries a Philip James CANNELL, some 20 years her senior, in Camden Town.
Just to note the father on that marriage is George William Daniels a fishmonger and Alice is born 1873.
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Looking at Daniels births with no mmn on GRO online between 1896-1898 doesn't throw up many in the London(ish) area
Is Shoreditch any good :-\ There's an Annie Daniels no MMN born Mar 1895
Possible the age of the child wasn't accurate in the report. Or that it even belonged to her - was that stipulated or just inferred?
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It was stated that it was her daughter, but no clue was given to the identity of the father.
There are several newspaper articles relating to the suicide on FindMyPast.
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Her father was George Thomas. She has got his middle name wrong. George Thomas was a fishmonger. She got that right.
She left the parental home early. I suspect that she didn’t get on with her step mother. In 1891, she is living with her grandparents, which possibly says something about the relationship. Moreover George Thomas died back in 1907.
Alice was definitely born in 1869, though she seems to fudge it as she gets older.
Finding her in 1911 would help.
The marriage is correct, as on Alice Cannell’s death certificate, the informant is her nephew, the son of her elder sister, Rosina.
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Frank Hilton married Kate Elinor Chiles 1898
Kate was b Sept qtr 1873 St Giles. Birthplace in 1901 & 1911 is Bloomsbury. They had a son in 1900 & twin sons in 1902 but can’t see any biological link to Alice
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Kate Hilton might be a red herring. Ancestry have indexed just her and Alice in one household, but there are more there. From the electoral register for 1939, in addition at no 24 were:
Smith, Frederick Auguste Philip
Smith, Louise Helene
Williams, Harriet Ann
Williams, Helena Jane
Alice may just be one of a number of boarders in the household
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Kate and her husband move into Warrender Rd 1931/2. I first find Alice there in 1936
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Finding her in 1911 would help.
Think this has been suggested before, but there are several London-born females in the 1911 census recorded under initials "A D". Also, there are several females with birthplace recorded as "unknown".
All of these women have birth years in the range of 1868-1872.
Trouble is, if these women are patients in institutions/hospitals, you won't have much to go on to confirm if one of them is your Alice Daniels. It is what it is.
ADDED: One of the women (born 1869) is in Epsom. Birth place is "London NK".
Looks like its the LONDON COUNTY COUNCIL LONG GROVE ASYLUM. Occupation of this patient is "charwoman" (same as your Alice's occupation in 1901).
Another possibility is a woman from Islington (born 1872) in a Dartford institution. Think she has been suggested before.
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Yes, I am aware of the custom of using initials to identify persons in mental institutions. As you say, it makes life very difficult. I have tried in the past to identify such individuals. As far as I know there is no central list and the only way is to contact the institution itself or the body that keeps its records and ask whether a named individual was admitted to that institution. It has worked for me in the past, but it is very hit and miss.
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I'm not sure if this will help, but according to one of the reports the magistrate dealing with her attempted suicide entrusted her and her child to the care of a Mr Holmes, a missionary with connection to a charitable house.
I have never been able to identify where this charitable home was located. Does anyone know anything about Mr Holmes? Or indeed the charitable home he was connected to?
Thomas Holmes evidently was the police court missionary for the North London Court, who was later connected to the Howard Association, the prison reform organisation..
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Found this online.
https://www.ajhw.co.uk/books/book443.html
Don't know if there is anything in there that would help.
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Yes, I am aware of the custom of using initials to identify persons in mental institutions. As you say, it makes life very difficult.
As regards the 1909 windows-breaking incident in Homerton, Alice was charged with insulting behaviour, as well as property damage. So depending on the outcome of those charges, she may have been incarcerated somewhere. You would need to further check newspaper reports and criminal records c1909. Perhaps she's a prison inmate in 1911.
Have you researched the man she married in 1918? Where was he in the 1911 census?
Where was Alice residing when she married him in 1918? Does the marriage record indicate a street address for her? Have you followed-up the address and any additional connection(s) it may have to Alice?
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Where was Alice residing when she married him in 1918? Does the marriage record indicate a street address for her? Have you followed-up the address and any additional connection(s) it may have to Alice?
He's still married to wife no 1 in 1911
They give the same address at marriage - 52 Rochester Road
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With regard to the 1909 window breaking episode, Alice was ordered to pay 35s with the alternative of 14 days. So she would not have been incarcerated in 1911 as a result of this episode.
It should be noted that for the purpose of her court appearance her address was given as Rosina Street. The whole event was triggered by her being ejected from that address by the unnamed man she was cohabiting with. It is unclear whether or not she returned to that arrangement and/or address.
As far as I can see she is not there in 1911.
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Hello Greaves,
I am a descendant of Alice's brother George Thomas (b. 1874). I have been researching his family for sometime now and found your information about Alice to be extremely interesting. When I started to dig into the story a little further, I found a few newspaper transcriptions on BNA that may be of interest.
September 3 1898 - published in the Graphic, pg 5
"...RING PERFORMERS: the Genuine NEGRO KENTUCKY TROUPE of Singers and Dancers: Alice Daniels..."
I cant be certain which Alice this article is about, although I do believe that it is unlikely there was more than one performer who had this name (based off of census data and the number of newspaper search results). If this is her, it may explain the "foreign looking man" that she was living with in 1899. Based on adverts in the paper, she only performed with the troupe between August and September of that year.
In regard to the 1899 turpentine poising, I did find an article that claims this was not her first suicide attempt.
Oct 22 1899 - published in Lloyds Weekly News, pg 4 (and several other papers)
"... On the prisoner being now placed in the dock the police officer handed the magistrate a letter, and said that a month ago the prisoner was charged with attempting suicide by throwing herself over London Bridge".
The same article also goes on to offer a potential reason for why there is no mention of the child in future records.
"The gentleman who was caring for the child asked for bail in order that the prisoner might look after their child. This was refused, and the man then asked to be relieved of the child as he could not look after her properly, and the prisoner's female relatives absolutely refused to bare anything to do with the little girl. [...] the only course of action was for the child to be taken to the workhouse."
(To clarify, the article does say that this was not his child but that he was very fond of her and that there was an emotional display when the two were separated)
There are no details about the family's reason for not wanting custody, however its not hard to come up with a list of potential reasons.
A little fun fact to close with:
Alice's family must have had a musical gene of some sort, as I found a newspaper article about her brother George singing aboard his battalions troop ship during WW1.
-EM
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Would that be the George Thomas who married Bessie sword and emigrated to Canada?
If so then we are related, as his brother John Daniels (1886-1952) was my grandfather.
Perhaps we should use personal e-mails?
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Yes you are correct. George and Bessie immigrated Toronto in 1908. They lived out the rest of their lived in the city; Bessie d. 1960 and George d. 1967.
I would love to chat further through direct messaging.
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Here is Alice entering the Islington Workhouse infirmary October 11th, 1899:
(St. John's Road Workhouse Infirmary admissions/discharges)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1T-JVMZ?i=181&cat=1224679
Released "to police" a couple days later:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1T-JVHD?i=186&cat=1224679
However there doesn't seem to be any trace of a child with her or about the same time.
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Genealogy - I have sent you a private message.
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I have uncovered a few more details about Alice and the man she was living with in 1899 which describes her living situation prior to the suicide attempt.
According to the Islington Gazette article (published Oct 16 1899), Alice had a severe drinking problem. She had been living with the "somewhat older" man (described in later articles as being of "foreign" appearance) for four months but the two were not married. He claims that he wanted to marry Alice but was not willing to do so until she was cured. When the man mentioned these details to the officer, Alice began to sob and accused the man of being a "brute" who "kept throwing the past in her face". He told the officer that he wanted Alice to get help for her alcoholism even if it meant that the court would have to send her away for a few months.
The officer took Alice to chemist where she was treated for the poisoning attempt, followed by the workhouse infirmary.
The officer was unsure what to do with the child, but agreed to leave her in the man's care because neither of them knew who the biological father was. The man seemed adamant about being willing to care for the child while Alice recovered. This explains why there is no record of a child entering the workhouse with Alice. Based on the officer claiming that the man was not the child's father, I am led to believe that the child did not resemble him.
Approximately one week later (article published Oct 22 1899 in Lloyds Weekly Newspaper), when Alice's case was heard in court, the man claimed he was unable to care for the child and cited this as a reason why Alice should be released on bail. It is then alleged that the man was selling Alice's belonging. Based on this, it seems safe to assume that they had ended the relationship (which would explain why he would no longer be willing to care for her child).
After this point, there are contradictory accounts of what happened to the child. One article claims that there was no choice but to send the child to the workhouse, where as another claims that the child accompanied Alice to the benevolent home.
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Very interesting. I would really like to know more about the young child. We know Alice married later, but the child simply disappears.
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Considering the description of Alice in the Islington Gazette article, and the fact she is working as a charwoman in 1901, it is possible that she re-entered the workhouse between 1899 and 1901 but left without her child.
When I searched the 1901 census for a little girl in the workhouse with the surname 'Daniels', there were two results:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&q.birthLikeDate.from=1896&q.birthLikeDate.to=1899&q.birthLikePlace=Middlesex%2C%20England&q.relationshipToHead=Inmate&q.sex=Female&q.surname=Daniels&f.collectionId=1888129
1. Edith b.1896 Middlesex; Kensington Workhouse
2. Gladys b.1899 Newton Abbot, Devon; Wolborough Workhouse
Of the two results, Edith is the most promising based on her birth year and location. I still have to do a little more research to determine her parentage, but it is a promising lead.
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This is my first time using this website but I’d love to connect! My dad’s mom’s grandfather was George Thomas Daniels who married Elizabeth sword, had William Daniels and he had my grandmother Lorraine Daniels.
And George Thomas Daniels father was also George Thomas Daniels who married Mary Taplin.
Please let me know how I can connect and chat and find out more! I can give you my email as well. I know there are rules here so don’t know what is allowed.
Thank you!
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Hi
I am a direct descendent of William DANIELS, through his son Charles DANIELS, then through George Thomas DANIELS (who married Catherine CONNELLY and resided with Mary TAPLIN), then through JOHN DANIELS and finally through my mother, Violet Lili DANIELS.
Send me contact details though a PM.
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Hi,
I am a direct descendant of George and Bessie. Please feel free to PM me. I am happy to share what I have discovered so far (including some family pictures).
To note: I am currently traveling and will be able to provide more detailed responses when I’m home in about a week.
EM
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I am a descendant of George and Bessie as well and would LOVE! Info and pics especially!