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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Gepal on Wednesday 13 April 22 11:34 BST (UK)
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Hi
I am helping a friend out trying to isolate Ernests family. According to him police documents he states he was born in Ealing on the 12th December 1885. According to his marriage certificate his father was John and he was a bootmaker.
So far all I have found is that there is a John Andrews bootmaker in the 1881 census with wife Ann and daughter Mary, but I have no idea if it is his family. I have not found anything about them or Ernest after those dates.
Any help to resolve this problem would be greatly appreciated.
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Can you find a birth registration for him? That will give you his mothers maiden name to look for his parents.
Where was he living when he got married?
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Did he have a middle name?
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So far all I have found is that there is a John Andrews bootmaker in the 1881 census with wife Ann and daughter Mary,
Can you trace that family forward to 1891 to see if little Ernest is with them?
I can't see that 1881 at the moment.
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Ernest has not admitted to a middle name on either his police or service records or on his marriage certificate. I found the 1881 census record quotedbut nothing on any of the family afterwards in any census. I am assuming they are Ernests family since I could find no other John Andrews a bootmaker. I did find an Ann Andrews a boot finisher who spent the odd night prior to Ernests birth in a workhouse. Again I am assuming she is the one in the 1881 census.
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Can you give full details from his marriage certificate please?
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Did he marry Ethel Rose Evelyn in Aldershot in 1916 - he was 29 and a Soldier at The Cavalry Barracks - his father was apparently Deceased
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Theres an 1911 census:
162 Ilbert Street Paddington
Maria Andrews Head Widow 55 Stonesfield Oxfordshire
May Andrews Daughter 33 Reading Berks
Ernest Andrews Son 26 Paddington Middlesex
Bertie Andrews Son 24 Paddington Middlesex
same address in 1901, but he's ernest H in that
When did the Ernest of interest join the military?
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You are correct. That is where we got his father's name and occupation.
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Can you provide the url/link to the 1881 AND to the workhouse record?
Pauline
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Ernest was in the dragoons until he joined the reserves in November 1911 in gosport.
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Can you provide the url/link to the 1881 AND to the workhouse record?
(and the military stuff while you're at it.)
Pauline
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This is the 1881 census and the St saviours Union record for 12/4/1879
Moderator Comment: Copyright image removed
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I don't have a copy of his army records other than what I've said as they are held by my friend
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So why do you think an 1879 admission of ann andrews to the workhouse relates to an 1885 birth?
Pauline
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It relates to ann andrews in the 1881 census, right age and her husband s occupation. Mind you I haven't found their wedding either. You now understand the difficulty I had. Ernests military and police records don't add anything more in the way of information.
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WHICH entry in the 1881 census are you looking at?
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I think this is it
www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27S-C31W
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That's the one
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Anyone else think that the MMN should be Bolton for the infant Mary in 1881 ?
1st qtr 1881
Hackney/ 1B
Page 622
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Found John and Anne in 1891 - no son Ernest I'm afraid - just Sidney (who was with them in 1881) plus a Florence bc.1882 and a John bc.1890.
Annette
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Unless John is a bootmaker I doubt it. Ernest was clear about that when he married. I remember that I did find an Ann Andrews in 1891 as a servant and a widower
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I see that his place of birth is 'London' in 1921 - born c1887.
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On his police record he is more concise ealing 12/12/1885. This ties in when he joined the 1st dragoons in 1905 he stated he was 20.
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He may well have fibbed about his age to enlist!
Did he survive to 1939? What date of birth is there?
What age is given on his death registration?
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Unless John is a bootmaker I doubt it. Ernest was clear about that when he married. I remember that I did find an Ann Andrews in 1891 as a servant and a widower
He may have made up his fathers name and occupation, he would not have had to provide any proof of his existence.
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He died Oct 1930 in Brighton. All his records seem pretty consistent to 1885. And his police records before and after ww1 show 12/12/1885 . He was a police sergeant when he died. He worked in the Swansea oil refinery police.
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If he lied about his father's name and occupation then there is no hope, but why would he lie?
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to be "respectable" !
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It was not unusual especially if he was illegitimate.
Death was Lewes registration district which covers these places (not Brighton)
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/lewes.html
Age at death is dependant on the knowledge of the informant, proof of birth date would not have been required at that time
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He was in the 1st dragoons in 1911 but not found that census entry so far. Life in the victorian/edwardian times has a lot to answer for.
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Is he not the one in 1st Royal Dragoons, Muttra, India in 1911?
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I haven't found that one. Can you send me a link
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RG14
Piece number 34990
Schedule 9999
Census reference RG14PN34990 RD641 SD15 ED12 SN9999
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Thank you 👍
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Is your friend able to give you the link to Ernest's service records to post on here so that we can look at them.
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He has a copy of his pre WW1 record , he joined the reserve Dec 1911. He doesn't have his WW1 records when he rejoined.
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Did his pre war record give a place of birth
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He just says London middlesex
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1911 census gave an age of 25 and birthplace of Hampsted (sic) Middlesex
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I know I had a look but thank you for confirming it.
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I want to thank you all for your efforts. It seems an impossible task but I will persevere on his behalf.
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Did his police records mention any tattoos
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Only a mole on his right thigh. I have located his WW1 medal roll. He was in the 1st dragoons guards service number d940.