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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: WAND on Tuesday 12 April 22 21:42 BST (UK)
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I am trying locate the christening record of Jean Elizabeth May Wall born 1930's believed to have died in the last two years. Unable to verify this fact, due to the GRO Indexes not being updated.
I am trying to trace her father Percy Walter John Wall, born 6 July 1904 whereabouts unknown since the 1936 electoral roll living at 2 Church Place Paddington with his mother Elizabeth.
He had married Alice May Jones on 27 Sep 1930 • Paddington, London, United Kingdom, Her whereabouts are also unknown.
This entry on Family Search is preventing us for viewing the records.
Name Jean Elizabeth May Wall
Sex Female
Christening Date 29 Nov 1947
Christening Place Bury, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom
Christening Place (Original) Bury, Lancashire, England
Father's Name Percy Walter John Wall
Father's Sex Male
Mother's Name May
Mother's Sex Female
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This entry on Family Search is preventing us for viewing the records. Can anyone help us find a way to view the original record. or where to locate the physical copy'
"England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:CN65-XFN2 : 18 September 2020), Percy Walter John Wall in entry for Jean Elizabeth May Wall, 1947.
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Many thanks
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Looks like the parents separated from what you've given.
Looked for Jean based on her birth date in tge 1939 register?
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Percy was a twin - sister was Sarah Elizabeth. Born 6.7.1904 & christened 10.8.1904 St Mary’s Paddington
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Thank you for help but we already have that information. It is Percy and Alice Wall who are proving elusive and who we would love to trace :)
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Did Jean marry?
Have you checked if her mother re-married
If you believe Jean has died have you checked if she left a will
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/
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Are you searching the baptism because you are wondering why she was baptised in Bury?
Did Percy or Alice have connections there?
Her birth was registered in Marylebone.
Do you have the birth certificate? It should have details of Percy’s occupation.
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Yes l have Jean's birth certificate and yes l am wondering she was christened in Bury 14 years after her birth. Percy's mother moved to Rochdale during WW2. It is just that there is no trace of Percy at all. The entry below is what has got me thinking? Thank for your time.
This entry on Family Search is preventing us for viewing the records. Can anyone help us find a way to view the original record. or where to locate the physical copy'
"England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:CN65-XFN2 : 18 September 2020), Percy Walter John Wall in entry for Jean Elizabeth May Wall, 1947.
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born 26 March 1933 believed to have died in the last two years. Unable to verify this fact, due to the GRO Indexes not being updated.
As you can't confirm whether she has died RootsChat privacy policy is that you don't put identifying information on the public forum.
As to why she was baptised aged 14, it may have been prior to her being confirmed, if C. of E. or Catholic or perhaps becoming a full member of another denomination.
Do you know which denomination she belonged to?
A list of churches in Bury with foundation year (and closure year) is on Lancashire Online Parish Clerks*
website www.lan-opc.org.uk
What other information are you hoping to get from seeing the baptism register entry?
Have you not found her mother on 1939 Register?
Where was Percy's mother on 1939 Register?
*Added. It depends on whether Family Search means it was the town of Bury, the parish of Bury or the district of Bury. If grandma lived in Rochdale and granddaughter lived with her, it may have been a church on the Rochdale side of Bury.
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This looks to be the death of Elizabeth, Percy’s mother.
1951 Bury
Elizabeth Martha Maria Wall, 84 yrs
I agree with Maiden Stone that confirmation is a very likely reason fo be baptised at that age.
If you think that grandmother and grandchild were together, then an address for Elizabeth might lead you to a local church record.
You mention that you ‘believe Jean has died in the last two years’ - do you know where she was living?
I suppose that none of this may help as you are really interested in Percy’s whereabouts though.
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She is still showing on electoral registers in 2020, no sign of will on probate site. Very often when people go into a 'home' they no longer appear on the electoral register
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I can check the recent GRO death index tomorrow.
If there is no death, then this topic will be edited in accordance with our 'no living people' policy.
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I agree with Maiden Stone that confirmation is a very likely reason fo be baptised at that age.
If you think that grandmother and grandchild were together, then an address for Elizabeth might lead you to a local church record.
Continuing the confirmation theory.
The baptismal ceremony in 1947 may have been a conditional baptism, if there was uncertainty over whether the confirmation candidate had already been baptised, or if they couldn't provide proof of prior baptism.
Either of the above reasons may have been likely in this case because:
The child was living hundreds of miles away from where she was born.
She may have been living with her grandmother in 1947; grandma may not have known if, or where and when, she was baptised or how to find out.
Parent/s may have forgotten name of church.
The church where she was baptised when a baby may have been bombed.
Transcriptions of some recent C. of E. baptism registers in the wider Bury district are on LAN-OPC. Catholic baptism registers are subject to 100 year privacy rule (maybe 110 years now due to increased longevity) and so shouldn't be online. I don't know what privacy policies of Non-conformist denominations are.
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Parishmouse - Bury, Lancashire Family History Guide
https://parishmouse.co.uk/lancashire/bury-lancashire-family-history-guide/
Updated Nov. 2021
See "Parish Records - Family Search" for a list of what's on Family Search. Repeating my comment in reply #7, it depends on how Family Search defines Bury. FS list includes a Waterfoot church. Waterfoot is in Rossendale not Bury, although the former Bury civil parish extended to include part of Rossendale until 19thC.
GENUKI Lancashire Church Records
Explains they are kept in various places.
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/ChurchRecords
GENUKI Bury
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Bury
To see churches on a map select "Nearby churches" tab and adjust to required distance.
Lists of Bury church registers deposited in archives:
Bury Archives
https://www.bury.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=11377
Lancashire Archives
https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/libraries-and-archives/
Printed Church Registers Guide. 3 sections, C. of E., R.C. and N.C. Arranged alphabetically within each list. Not every place in Bury district is under Bury in the list e.g. Birtle.
C. of E. https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/media/898360/B.pdf
NC. https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/media/898327/B.pdf
R.C. https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/media/898309/B.pdf
Internet search for Lancashire Archives Church Registers Guide will find complete list.
Bury is in Manchester C. of E. Diocese. Some records at Manchester Archives
https://www.manchester.gov.uk
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Salford Diocese (R.C.)
https://www.dioceseofsalford.org.uk/diocese/archives/
Read section "Parish Registers". This says early registers are in Lancashire Archives. Other registers are at the church or another church in the locality.
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Thank you for everyone's help. Will try some of the recommendations.
Thank you