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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Heyokah on Friday 01 April 22 17:05 BST (UK)
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Behind a family wedding picture from the 1930s in Wales was this faded image. The families in the wedding picture are WILLIAMS (bride) and EDWARDS (groom). The soldier is not known to the WILLIAMS family members so we think he must be an EDWARDS. If the approximate date could be established or the insignia identified, it may help to figure out who he was. On the back of the soldier's picture are written in pencil the name, "Dexter, 11 Factor St, Barton, Bristol", but no one knows if that was the photographer or the soldier. Any information would be helpful thank you.
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Hi Heyokah and welcome to RootsChat, you will get a more informed response on the Armed Forces Board, so I have requested it to be moved there for you.
Carol
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The cap badge looks like the General Service Corps:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Service_Corps
Tony
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General Service Corps might be too late for this image as that corps seems to begin in 1942. Could there be a link to the Anglo African Wars in the type of helmet?
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The Wikipedia article is a bit odd and may not be entirely correct.
There are cap badges available which claim to be from WW1:
https://www.britishmilitarybadges.co.uk/products/ww1-general-service-corps--regiment-cap-badge-12.html
Tony
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Still hunting for information about the dates and wars when those helmets were used.
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In WW1 the cap badge was used for the General List.
Tony
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Seems the General List first started in 1914:
https://grenadiermilitaria.com/product/general-service-corps-cap-badge-officers/
Tony
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Possibly still too late for this chap.
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There are Dexters at 11 Factory Street in 1939
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Are they there earlier than that? Is their occupation shown?
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The photo is of a soldier in tropical uniform, 1890's, possibly a Lancers regiment.
Probably a relative of the Dexters: George Frederick Dexter (1906) and wife Lillian May Knight (1904) both born in Bristol.
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Would there be any earlier Dexter information available from the 1800s? Were Dexters photographers? We think the soldier may be an EDWARDS.
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Were Dexters photographers?
George was a furniture removal man; his father was a police sergeant.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/29687190/person/12208721042/facts
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Thanks for that information. Can you see any links with Wales and Edwards or Williams families for the Dexters in the 1890s? The soldier's picture was much older and hidden behind a wedding picture from the late 1920s - early 1930s. We think the soldier was from an earlier generation.
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Is the sun helmet a Wolesley design and does that help to date the soldier or the campaign?
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Thanks for that information. Can you see any links with Wales and Edwards or Williams families for the Dexters in the 1890s? The soldier's picture was much older and hidden behind a wedding picture from the late 1920s - early 1930s. We think the soldier was from an earlier generation.
There doesn't appear to be a match in Wales for a Williams or Edwards marriage to a Dexter. on Freebmd:
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
In my experience of restoring and collecting old photos and postcards, the photographers would write the recipient's name on the back of it. Does it look like a postcard back?
There is always a possibility that the soldier may not be Family, these photos were collected and shared amongst friends as well as Family.
Also, the frame may not have been new.
Carol
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Thanks Carol. It was not a postcard but rather a large oval portrait. There are two matching frames from the family home. It is an interesting process to try to discover the hidden history. We can see a few clues to the dating with the type of sun helmet and the type of belt buckle. Looks like it could have been Boer War. Where the family lived suggests that the 24th Regiment is a possibility. Still working on it and thank you so much for your help.
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If you have the original and can scan just the helmet badge at a resolution of 400dpi then the lads may have a better chance of identifying the regiment.
Carol
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Will try that. Thank you.
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OK...here is a restored version. Not as clear as I would like but it is a low resolution scan.
Carol
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How amazing! Much more distinct than the original. Thank you.
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My pleasure, glad to be of help.
Carol
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Scans of the hat badge at different dpi are not as clear as in the restored image. Have tried to attach them without success!
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The file size must be below the 500kbs limit. If you try again, you must rename the file.
Carol
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Next attempt to load scans
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I see what you mean but well done for posting them.
Carol
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Hopefully someone will be able to identify the badge by the shape. The closest I have found is the shape of a Victorian Royal Artillery badge but I have no knowledge in the area whatsoever!
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Royal Coat of Arms cap badge used in the Boer War by English Royal Reserve Regiments and after the Royal Garrison Regiment:
https://www.cultmancollectables.com/military-badges?product_id=7706
Tony
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There are Dexters at 11 Factory Street in 1939
Probably a relative of the Dexters: George Frederick Dexter (1906) and wife Lillian May Knight (1904) both born in Bristol.
There is Frederick DEXTER, a policeman, born 1876 in Oakham Rutland. Frederick was the son of Topley and Sarah DEXTER of Rutland.
- In the 1901 census, Frederick DEXTER the policeman is single boarding in Bristol with the HAMILTON family
- In 1903 in Rutland, Frederick DEXTER, 27, policeman (abode Clifton, Bristol) married Elizabeth Jane FITZJOHN, spinster age 27.
- In 1911 census Frederick DEXTER the policeman, is a widower, boarding in Bristol with the GIBSON family. His five-year-old son is not with him.
- In 1939, living at 11 Factory Street is his son, Frederick George DEXTER (born 1906 Bristol) along with his wife Lillian KNIGHT (married 1926 Bristol) and family.
Connection to uniformed man in photo, is the name DEXTER and the Bristol address and …….
In the Boer War – in the Cape Police, there was a Fred DEXTER no.890. He attested in June 1895.
I have not been able to find more information on his military service.
Added:
If you can find where the son Frederick George Dexter, age 5, was in 1911 census, it might give you a connection to the Williams or Edwards families.
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Photos of Frederick Dexter:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/mediaui-viewer/collection/1030/tree/29687190/person/12208720826/media/4c87a7e2-adc9-4938-b0e3-35c01f863821
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/mediaui-viewer/collection/1030/tree/29687190/person/12208720826/media/feb27235-aaa2-4623-a764-27230f064c20
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Great work Neale and Shaun, Heyokah will be so pleased.
Carol
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Photos of Frederick Dexter:
Shaun, I am not on Ancestry. Is it the same man?
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Hi
on Shaun's 2nd link there is a Debra Williams
researching Fred Dexter
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Extra information to add to my reply #29
In 1911 Bristol, widower Frederick DEXTER married widow Mida Louise SHIPP nee GIBSON (born 1874)
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Thank you to everyone who has worked on this already! Your efforts are greatly appreciated. This has been a bit of a family mystery since the picture was discovered and now we have a much better idea of where this gentleman may fit into the family history. I have personally also learned how to do a few new things!
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On Shaun's 2nd link there is a Debra Williams researching Fred Dexter
Excellent. Hopefully Heyokah will be able to make contact with Debra, and share the photo of Frederick in uniform, and let us all know what the Williams-Dexter connection is. :D
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I'm not sure we've solved it. The badge is not Cape Police. Is this the same man at 15 year intervals?
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Were the Cape Police not only a South African unit?
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Excellent. Hopefully Heyokah will be able to make contact with Debra, and share the photo of Frederick in uniform, and let us all know what the Williams-Dexter connection is. :D
I think your next step is to contact Debra Williams and find out what exactly the Dexter- Williams connection is.
The photo could be from the Knight side of the family (wife to George Frederick Dexter).
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Coincidence that a Williams is researching a Dexter! How do I connect with Debra Williams? I am a complete beginner to this process and appreciate all the help!
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Hi
to contact Debra Williams you need to subscribe to Ancestry,
i suggest using the 14 day trial and if nothing comes of it
cancel within the 14 day period,
can i suggest you save Shauns 2nd link to Ancestry,
on that image you ll see 11 icons of ones researching
Fred Dexter the DW icon is Debra from there you can reach her tree
then message.
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Thank you for the information. I just signed up this morning for the free trial so will follow that up.
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Good evening,
The Wolseley pith helmet (the British Army version was made of cork) was first issued in 1899 and was taken out of service in 1948. Apart that is from some ceremonial use, ie; Royal Marines.
This cap badge was used for officers on the general list in WW1. They were specialists who were waiting to be posted depending on their speciality.
The GSC started in 1942 to provide specialists, they would be in the GSC for several weeks until a place was found for them with their particular skills. That would leave a 6 year window for the photo.
John915
PS; As an ex cavalryman I can say he is not a lancer. As such he would have one of several lancer regt cap badges.
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I'm not sure we've solved it. The badge is not Cape Police.
If I understand reply #28 from Tonepad, who I believe has correctly identified the cap badge as being from a Home Counties Reserve Regiment, then the photo could be of Frederick DEXTER (born 1876), with picture taken around 1900, after having joined one of the Royal Reserve Regiments in England, during the time of the 2nd Boer War. That would make him about 24years old in the photo.
In Shaun’s reply #37 with picture comparison many years apart, it is difficult to know if they are the same man. The ears and chin shape look the same, all three appear to have a large physical build, and maybe similar shape to eyes and eyebrows.
The information that I posted about the man in the Cape Police was only a suggestion, and is probably a “red herring”. He was the only possible Frederick Dexter I could find in Boer War rolls.
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Thank you all the contributors of information so far. This is helping to develop our understanding of the image. Hopefully now our message will reach the folks who are researching Frederick DEXTER and we will be able to learn how he fits into the WILLIAMS family.
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As the sitter in the original photo is in tropical uniform, he is more likely to be in the Royal Garrison Regiment which was formed from personnel from the Royal Reserve Regiments (used for Home Defence Duties). The Royal Garrison Regiment was in South Africa between 1904 and 1908.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Garrison_Regiment
The features in the three comparison photos look similar to me (including 3 moustaches), except for the shape of the left earlobe in the wedding photo. The different earlobe may be due to an injury after the first photo was taken.
Tony
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If the sitter is Frederick DEXTER then I don’t think he was out of the country between those dates mentioned above.
He was married in 1903, daughter born in 1905, and son in 1906.
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Now that there is some idea of who the person is, should there be military records to give more information?
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Good morning,
The RGR 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th battalions were sent to South Africa in 1904 and returned in 1905. They were disbanded in 1905/6 and the regt disbanded in 1908. This I am assuming was the regtl depot at Fort Widley where records were held until 1905 when they were transferred to Winchester.
5th battalion were sent to Nova Scotia in 1905 and returned dec 1905 and disbanded.
Prior to SA the 4 battalions were in Malta to relieve regular troops for SA duties. Whilst there they wore temperate uniforms, ie; blue serge. The uniform shown would only have been worn in SA.
So that leaves an 18mth window for this photo, May 1904 to Dec 1905. But troops whose time was up would have returned earlier than that date.
John915
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So that leaves an 18mth window for this photo, May 1904 to Dec 1905
PC Dexter is mentioned in Bristol newspapers in May and December 1904
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Feels like unravelling a mystery! Does he appear in any military records?
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Does he appear in any military records?
Frederick Dexter from Oakham? No.
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Is that unusual if he is the correct person?
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Frederick Dexter (time line)
1901 census living in Bristol
October 1903 - 1st marriage
May & Dec 1904 in Bristol papers
January 1905- Daughter born
August 1906 - Son born
June 1910 - Wife died
April 1911 - 2nd marriage second wife
May 1913 - Son born
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Thank you that removes some of the confusion!
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It would be helpful to know when Fred Dexter joined the Bristol police and what his previous occupation was. Had he perhaps served briefly in the army in the 1890's?
Registers are at Bristol RO:
https://archives.bristol.gov.uk/records/Pol/St
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Tried searching but can't access the appropriate files / records but I think it may be that I am not searching correctly.