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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: TrinaMac on Friday 01 April 22 11:06 BST (UK)

Title: Amelia Smith
Post by: TrinaMac on Friday 01 April 22 11:06 BST (UK)
I am looking for info on Amelia Smith, born appx 1913, mother could be Lena Margaret Smith
Born 30 Sept 1897 in Hastings, Sussex
I recently found the 1921 census entry for New. Brunswick, Canada that showed Lena and an 8 year old daughter Amelia. Lena Immigrated to Canada in 1919 and married Frederick James Ward.
Title: Re: Amelia Smith
Post by: PaulineJ on Friday 01 April 22 13:02 BST (UK)
Why are you/we looking in Staffordshire?
Title: Re: Amelia Smith
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 01 April 22 13:07 BST (UK)
Just beat me to it Pauline

If I have the right outgoing passenger list for Lena - no Amelia with her

Lena Smith left 24.7.1919 aboard the Adriatic - Destination Halifax, Canada
Title: Re: Amelia Smith
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 01 April 22 13:18 BST (UK)
No birth reg for an Amelia Smith - mmn Smith in 1912 but there are 4 in 1913

Reg districts - Nuneaton, Southwark, Andover, Hereford

Does the 1921 entry refer to her as Smith?   
Title: Re: Amelia Smith
Post by: softly softly on Friday 01 April 22 14:16 BST (UK)
Is it a silly question to ask if Amelia is aged 8 years or possibly 8 months in 1921

John
Title: Re: Amelia Smith
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 01 April 22 14:27 BST (UK)

I am looking for info on Amelia Smith, born appx 1913, mother could be Lena Margaret SmithBorn 30 Sept 1897 in Hastings, Sussex

I recently found the 1921 census entry for New. Brunswick, Canada that showed
Lena and an 8 year old daughter Amelia.

Lena Immigrated to Canada in 1919 and married Frederick James Ward.

For info.

Lena M Smith Age:   21 (to be married to F J WARD)
Departure Port:   Liverpool
Arrival 24 Oct 1919 Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Vessel:   Metagama
Canada, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1865-1935

1921 census
Fred WARD 28
Lena 23
Amelia 8
Frances 5 mths

Lena Marguarita Or Margeret SMITH Age:   22
Marriage 4 Nov 1919 Northumberland, New Brunswick, Canada
Father:   Charles E Smith
Mother:   Frances May
Spouse:   Fred J WARD

SMITH, LENA  MARGARET   mmn JARMAN
GRO Reference: 1897  D Quarter in HASTINGS  Volume 02B  Page 23

1891 census Piece:   870 Folio:   57 Page Number:   5
7 Alexander Road, Hastings
Charley SMITH   29 Hastings, Sussex, Joiner Journeyman
Frances    34 Lee, Kent
Percy    8 Hastings
Jessie    7 Hastings
LENA    3  Hastings
Sidney    1 St Leonards on Sea, Sussex
family living at the same address in  1911


No middle name given for Lena nee Smith on her daughters death certificate 1 May 1921, birth place of mother Hastings, England, same on the death of her son 26 Dec 1942
Title: Re: Amelia Smith
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 01 April 22 14:32 BST (UK)
It looks to be age 8
Title: Re: Amelia Smith
Post by: ChrissieL on Friday 01 April 22 14:45 BST (UK)
Was Amelia definitely Lena's daughter or could she be Frederick Wards daughter?

Chris
Title: Re: Amelia Smith
Post by: softly softly on Friday 01 April 22 15:03 BST (UK)
Looking closely at the 1921 census it appears Amelia was born New Brunswick or do I need my eyes tested.

John
Title: Re: Amelia Smith
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 01 April 22 15:54 BST (UK)
Looking closely at the 1921 census it appears Amelia was born New Brunswick or do I need my eyes tested.

John

If you need your eyes testing then so do I  ;D. It certainly looks like N.B to me
Title: Re: Amelia Smith
Post by: softly softly on Friday 01 April 22 16:02 BST (UK)
What specsavers shall we meet at as they have a 2 for 1 deal currently on ;D ;D

John
Title: Re: Amelia Smith
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 01 April 22 17:36 BST (UK)

Was Amelia definitely Lena's daughter or could she be Frederick Wards daughter?


Or could she be an illegitimate daughter of a sister of Frederick's ???

1901 census he has sisters named Gertie born 1888 & May born 1890.

Frederick's parents Peter & Mary Ward and two of his younger sisters Dinah & Irene Ward plus a nephew & niece surname Ward are also on the same 1921 census.

Amelia certainly proving difficult to find other than the 1921 Census of Canada entry  :-\




Title: Re: Amelia Smith
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 01 April 22 19:04 BST (UK)
She isn't entered as Smith so there is just an assumption based on her age that she is Lena's daughter.

Title: Re: Amelia Smith
Post by: TrinaMac on Saturday 02 April 22 13:55 BST (UK)
Thank you one and all for the help. When Amelia showed up on the 1921 census I had several questions. I wondered why Fred was not there but did find him on a Chatham, NB census living in a wood house occupying 9 rooms, this let me to believe perhaps Lena, Amelia and baby Frances were visiting Freds parents. I also wondered why Lena was the first name on the list and wondered does it matter. Amelia is shown as a daughter with her Mom born in England. I was told that Fred was adopted but not able to confirm so maybe Amelia was too.
I also Believe Fred Ward lied about his age to join the war effort as the 1911 census show him as 15.
What a tangled webb we weave.
Title: Re: Amelia Smith
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 03 April 22 11:06 BST (UK)

I wondered why Fred was not there but did find him on a Chatham, NB census living in a wood house occupying 9 rooms, this let me to believe perhaps Lena, Amelia and baby Frances were visiting Freds parents. I also wondered why Lena was the first name on the list and wondered does it matter. Amelia is shown as a daughter with her Mom born in England.


There is a Fred Ward 'M' age 28 who appears on the previous page (1) last name on page, occ labourer, Roman Catholic and Lena Ward is on page (2) first name on page of 1921 census

I have added a snippet of page 1

1921 Census of Canada
New Brunswick
Northumberland
Sub-District 34 - Chatham (Parish)

Province New Brunswick
District No 44
Enumerated by  A B Cole
Enumeration sub district No 34
Town  of Chatham
Enumerator June 1/21
Title: Re: Amelia Smith
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 03 April 22 15:27 BST (UK)

I was told that Fred was adopted but not able to confirm so maybe Amelia was too.


When Lena Margarita Smith married 4 Nov 1919 by License she was age 22, C of E, born Hastings her Parents Charles E and Frances May Smith

Fred J Ward age 23,  Presbyterian, born Tracadie N.B.
Parents Peter and Mary Ward
Both resident Chatham N.B.
He signed as Fred James Ward, witness was Lily Mary Lewis

1919 marriage entry from Acadia, Canada, Vital and Church Records (Drouin Collection), 1757-1946 have added snippet below

Is this his birth but not with surname Ward ?

Frederic Beaudin
Birth 7 Jan 1896 Tracadie, Gloucester, New Brunswick, Canada
Father:   Pierre Beaudin, farmer Mother:   Marie Louise Godin
New Brunswick, Canada, Births and Late Registrations, 1810-1906

Is this the marriage of his parents?

Peter Beaudin Age:   24, born Grand River, R.C., fisherman
Marriage 31 Jul 1892 Gloucester, New Brunswick, Canada
Father:   Peter Beaudin Mother:   Elizabeth WARD
Spouse:   Mary Louisa Godin 28 born Tracadie N.B. R.C.., Widow
No parents names given for Mary Louisa

Canadian census
Peter Ward   43
Mary Ward   48
Fred Ward   15
Gertie Ward   13
May Ward   11
Dena Ward   9
Irene Ward   5
1911 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QV95-5B8R

Are these the births of some of his siblings?

Marie Dorothie Beaudin
Birth 3 Nov 1897 St-Tracadie, Gloucester, New Brunswick, Canada
Father:   Pierre Beaudin, farmer Mother:   Marie Louise Godin

Mary Beaudin
Birth 1 May 1900 Loggieville, Northumberland, New Brunswick, Canada
Father:   Peter Beaudin Mother:   Mary Gaudin

Mary Delina Ward
Birth 15 Apr 1902 Chatham, Northumberland, New Brunswick, Canada
Father:   Peter Ward Mother:   Mary Louise Godin

Frederick J Warde age 29
Departure Contact:   Wife Lena Margaret, Chatham Head N.B.
Birth Place:   Tracadie, New Brunswick
Arrival Date:   23 Nov 1925
Port of Arrival:   Vanceboro, Maine, USA
Arrival Contact:   Sister Mrs. John Mcgrath, 82 Newton St
U.S., Border Crossings from Canada to U.S., 1895-1960

His sister Dina married a McGrath - this appears to be their marriage but her mother is named as Delina Rodin :-\

Mary Delina Ward age 21, born Loggieville, N.B., R.C.
Marriage :   10 Jul 1923 Chatham, Northumberland, New Brunswick, Canada
Father:   Peter Ward Mother:   Delina Rodin
Spouse:   John McGrath

1930 US census she is named as Dianna with husband John and their two children

Delina McGrath age 23, accompanied 2 children arrival 15 Aug 1925
father Peter Ward
husband John, 25 Howe St, Marlboro., Mass.
U.S., Records of Aliens Pre-Examined in Canada, 1904-1954

I'm posting some other information below to see what you and anyone else thinks - perhaps Amelia age 8 on 1921 census dittoed as Ward might have a connection to Mary Louise Godin and Amelia had a different name  ???
Title: Re: Amelia Smith
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 03 April 22 16:50 BST (UK)
Could this be a daughter of Mary Louisa Godin the widow who married Peter Beaudin ???

Marie Emilie Vienneau Birth 27 May 1889 Liucadu, Gloucester, New Brunswick, Canada
Father:   Guillaume Vienneau Mother: Marie Louise Godin

There’s this 1911 census for a

Amelia Savoy age 29 (1882) New Brunswick, wife
Province:   New Brunswick
District:   Northumberland
District Number:   30
Sub-District:   10
Sub-District Number:   10
Place of Habitation:   Loggieville
Religion:   Roman Catholic
Family Number:   40
Household Members:   
Stanley Savoy   30
Alvena Savoy   2 daughter
Plus lodger
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QV95-5B8R
Maybe just a coincidence but this SAVOY family and the WARD family are on the same 1911 but in different households

Did Amelia Vinneau marry Stanley Savoy and have daughters named
Malvina born 1908 & Marie Amelia Savoy born 1913? - not found a marriage for Amelia & Stanley nor birth records for two girls  ???

Have found these two possible marriage entries

Mary Amelia SAVOY age 21 (b1913), born Loggieville N.B., maid, R.C.
Marriage    6 Nov 1934 Chatham, Northumberland, New Brunswick, Canada
Father:   Stanislaus Savoy Mother:   Amelia Vienneau
Spouse:   Francis DRUET
One witness Melvina SAVOY

Mary Amelia DRUET died 1995 buried in St Charles Nativity R.C. Cemetery
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/212734183/mary-amelia-druet

Melvina Savoy age 27 born Loggiville, R.C., housekeeper
Marriage:   23 Sep 1935 Victoria, New Brunswick, Canada
Father:   Stanislaus Savoy Mother:   Emilie Vienneau
Spouse:   Louis Thibodeau

1985 burial of Melvina (nee Savoy)
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/204325056/melvina-m.-thibodeau

Hopes this makes some sort of sense is it possible that

Marie Emilie VINNEAU born 27 May 1889 daughter of William &
Mary Louise(a) GODIN the possible widow who married Peter Beaudin and parents of Fred J Ward ?
Could Marie Emilie be the mother of the Amelia dittoed as WARD age 8 born N.B on the 1911 1921 census with Lena Ward and this Amelia married as Mary Amelia SAVOY (edited) age 21 (born 1913) on 6 Nov 1934 at Chatham, Northumberland, New Brunswick, Canada, she signed as Amelia SAVOY
Father:    Stanislaus Savoy Mother: Amelia Vienneau

One thing that is troubling me is Mary married Peter Beaudin not Ward and married as GODIN, widow and not Vinneau, widow ???
Title: Re: Amelia Smith
Post by: ChrissieL on Sunday 03 April 22 17:10 BST (UK)
You have done some amazing research there Ladyhawk. I have been following it carefully and it does make sense. I see a lot of the females in the same families have 'Marie' or 'Mary' as their first name so it would make sense that to avoid confusion they use their middle name.

Chris
Title: Re: Amelia Smith
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 03 April 22 17:14 BST (UK)
You have done some amazing research there Ladyhawk. I have been following it carefully and it does make sense. I see a lot of the females in the same families have 'Marie' or 'Mary' as their first name so it would make sense that to avoid confusion they use their middle name.

Chris

thank you have just found this will post a snippet

Guillaume Vienneau
Event Year:   1798-1899
Event:   Mariage (Marriage)
Religion:   Catholique
City:   Tracadie
Place or Church Name:   Tracadie
Province:   Acadie (Nova Scotia and New Brunswick)
Spouse:   Marie Godin
Acadia, Canada, Vital and Church Records (Drouin Collection), 1757-1946

EDIT to add snippet

I can only just make out the names Marie Louisa Godin & Guillaume Vienneau

marriage can also be found New Brunswick, Canada, Marriages, 1789-1950

Mary Louisa Godin
Marriage 29 Jul 1883 New Brunswick, Canada
Spouse:   William Vienneau
Title: Re: Amelia Smith
Post by: TrinaMac on Monday 04 April 22 13:27 BST (UK)
Oh my gosh, I agree with Chrissie, you have done some amazing work. Now that I see the name Beaudin I recall be told his family could not look after him.
Title: Re: Amelia Smith
Post by: ChrissieL on Monday 04 April 22 14:28 BST (UK)
I don't think it was the case that his family couldn't look after him, but simply - for some reason - changed their name to from Beaudin to WARD.  Ward was Fred's grandmother's maiden name. 

I just wonder why Fred James Ward gives his religion as Presbyterian on his marriage when all the family seem to be Roman Catholic

Chris
Title: Re: Amelia Smith
Post by: TrinaMac on Monday 04 April 22 14:36 BST (UK)
That makes sense to me, I wonder if the English name was the attraction.
Title: Re: Amelia Smith
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 04 April 22 15:29 BST (UK)
Peter Beaudin Age:   24, born Grand River, R.C., fisherman
Marriage 31 Jul 1892 Gloucester, New Brunswick, Canada
Father:   Peter Beaudin Mother:   Elizabeth WARD
Spouse:   Mary Louisa Godin 28 born Tracadie N.B. R.C.., Widow
No parents names given for Mary Louisa

One thing that is troubling me is Mary married Peter Beaudin not Ward and married as GODIN, widow and not Vinneau, widow ???

Also found the 1892 marriage entry Acadia, Canada, Vital and Church Records (Drouin Collection),1757-1946 which mentions the name William Vinneau see attached image
Title: Re: Amelia Smith
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 04 April 22 16:49 BST (UK)
TrinaMac

Do you know anything about the nephew Wilfred age 9 & niece Malvina age 12 on the 1921 census with Lena WARD? Who are their parents?

A very long shot but I’m wondering if perhaps MALVINA (surname dittoed as WARD) age 12 (born 1909), Niece might be Marie Malvina(Alvina/Elvina) Savoy  :-\

Previously posted 1911 census for a Stanley 30, Amelia 29 & Alvina Savoy age 2 (see reply 16 for link to the 1911c)
Have not located the SAVOY's Stanley, Amelia & Malvina age 12 with a dau Marie Amelia age 8 on 1921c

Have attached an image of Marie Alvina Savoy's probable 1908 birth

Title: Re: Amelia Smith
Post by: TrinaMac on Monday 04 April 22 19:55 BST (UK)
LADYHAWK

I had no knowledge of any family my Grandpa Ward had, I was quite surprised to find all those people on the 1921 Census. I was wondering if because the children were all female did Peter change his name to Ward to keep the name alive.
Title: Re: Amelia Smith
Post by: TrinaMac on Wednesday 06 April 22 16:39 BST (UK)
Amelia remains a mystery. I found this tid bit