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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: idyia14 on Saturday 26 March 22 08:25 GMT (UK)
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Hi, I am trying to trace the ancestors of John Woolley, born about 1904 in Liverpool. He died in 1936 aged 32 years. In 1926 he married Angela Maria Trimarco in Liverpool. She is believed to be of Italian descent. They had 3 children, John Christopher (1927), Angela M. (1929) and Edward J. (1931).
John (born ~1904) had sisters Elsie, May, Hilda and Mabel who had daughters Joan, Nora, Freda and Eileen - cousins to John (born 1927), but I don't know which daughter belongs to which of the mothers, nor who the mothers' spouses were.
John's (born ~1904) mother lived in Blackburn Street, Liverpool until she died in 1936. The rest of the family moved to Broxton, Cheshire at some point.
I would like to know who John's (born ~1904) parents were - I haven't been able to get a copy of their marriage entry yet, because of slow postage to Australia (where I live) due to Covid restrictions and I haven't been able to find anything concrete in the Census records.
I will also post this in the Cheshire section of the Forum.
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Possible 1911 census - 28 Hardy Street,
Alfred Price Woolley - 42, Anne Phillip - 41, Ellen Anne, Mabel Edith, Ruth May, John Alfred - 7, George Henry and Edith Gertrude.
Parents married 19 years - 6 children, all living. Everyone born Liverpool. There is a marriage in Liverpool - September quarter 1892 - Alfred Price Woolley and Anne Phillips Jones.
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John Woolley, born about 1904 in Liverpool
Several trees on Ancestry record Angela Trimarco's first husband as John Edward Woolley born 1893.
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Birth September qtr 1893
West Derby Registration District vol 8b, page 542
Woolley, John Edward
GRO Search shows Mother's maiden name as Jones.
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Just replied to same on Cheshire board:
There are trees online which have Angela marrying John Edward Woolley, with photographs of both, but he was born on 24th June 1893.
His parents were John J Woolley and Elizabeth Owen.
1901: 31, Scourfield Street, West Derby, Lancashire
John J Woolley Head Married Male 34 1867 Brewers carter Liverpool
Elizabeth Woolley Wife Married Female 35 1866 - Liverpool
Annie Woolley Daughter - Female 12 1889 - Liverpool
Frank Woolley Son - Male 11 1890 - Liverpool
Mary Woolley Daughter - Female 9 1892 - Liverpool
John E Woolley Son - Male 7 1894 - Liverpool
William Hy Woolley Son - Male 6 1895 - Liverpool
Thomas A Woolley Son - Male 5 1896 - Liverpool
Samuel F Woolley Son - Male 3 1898 - Liverpool
Ernest Woolley Son - Male 1 1900 - Liverpool
Walter Woolley Son - Male 0 1901 - Liverpool
Ernest Woolley Son - Male 1 1900 - Liverpool
Walter Woolley Son - Male 0 1901 - Liverpool
David
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Possible 1911 census - 28 Hardy Street,
Alfred Price Woolley - 42, Anne Phillip - 41, Ellen Anne, Mabel Edith, Ruth May, John Alfred - 7, George Henry and Edith Gertrude.
Parents married 19 years - 6 children, all living. Everyone born Liverpool. There is a marriage in Liverpool - September quarter 1892 - Alfred Price Woolley and Anne Phillips Jones.
John Alfred Woolley is an executor for Alfred Price Woolley in 1944, so can’t be him
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Yes, I found the 1911 census record for Alfred Price Woolley. A couple of the girls names tie up (May and Mabel) and maybe Ellen was called Elsie? but it's not quite enough to definitely know I have the right family. I have found the GRO index record for John Alfred, Liverpool. 8b 91 so that ties up with the register of death. It would really help to know what was on the marriage entry! Perhaps I'll just have to be patient and wait for the mail!
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Oh, that sounds as if the Alfred Price Woolley family has been ruled out.
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Is the year of death for the mother definitely 1936? Just checking it’s not a typo as same year as death of John.
How do you know the year of death for John?
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How do you know all those family names - sisters and sisters’ children?
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There is a John Woolley boarding in Broxton in 1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW3D-TBQ
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Info only.
TRIMARCO, ANGELA MARIA mmn CONNOLLY
GRO Reference: 1905 J Quarter in HEMEL HEMPSTED Volume 03A Page 860
She appears on 1921 census as
Angela
Trimmer
1862
Italy
Liverpool
Liverpool
Lancashire
Angela
Trimmer (Woolley)
1905 (dob 10.4.1905 taken from 1939 reg-goes onto marrying a Mr Smith)
London, London, England
Liverpool
Liverpool
Lancashire
John
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1901 3363 /100/10
Transcribed on one site as Woodey
Bulkeley, Cheshire
John Woolley 42 yrs
Mary 25 yrs
Elsie 3 yrs
Mabel 2 yrs
Mary 3 weeks
Children have mmn Jones
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The 1901 entry above matches the family who are boarding in 1911 - link given. Polly is a pet name for Mary.
Elsie, in 1911, is a servant in another household in the area.
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Info only Trimarco family in Liverpool 1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWRT-SWW
Marriage
Marriages Dec 1892
CHAPLIN Emily Worthy Holborn 1b 1314
Connolly Mary Ellen Holborn 1b 1314
Fiore Edward Joseph Holborn 1b 1314
Trimarco Angelomaria Holborn 1b 1314
John
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Angelo & Mary (Nee' Connolly) appear on 1939 war register as TRIMATEO
Mary Ellen dies 1940 aged 64
Angelo dies aged 82 in 1946.
John
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John Edward Woolley baptised on 12th July 1893 at Edge Hill, St Catherine, son of John, a Carter, and Elizabeth (Jones not Owen as shown on the trees)
Plenty of Trimarco photographs, marriages etc. on some of the trees, and marriage certificate for Angelo.
Brothers Samuel Wooley, 1898, and Ernest, 1900, also Jones. They are here in 1911: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWTT-SV4
David
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Those siblings don’t match the names given by idyia14.
That would seem to be the answer - is it the Liverpool family or the Broxton family?
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It could be that the trees are incorrect. The John of Broxton was also a carter and his wife Mary Jones. If the marriage certificate gives the father as John, a carter, it would still leave doubt, unless it has a precise age for John jnr. or a key witness.
Some more on the Liverpool family:-
National School Admission Registers & Log-Books 1870-1914
John Edward Woolley
Birth date 24 Jun 1893
Admission year 1903
School name Blue Coat School, Wavetree
Parents John James Woolley
Going by his middle name:
John James Woolley, Van Driver aged 20 of Pilgrim Street, son of Matthew Woolley, Drayman, married
Marion Elizabeth Jones, aged 20 of Stafford Street, daughter of Thomas Jones, Car Driver,
on 25th December 1885 at Liverpool St Peter.
First three children on 1891 Census at Forbes Street, West Derby:
Edith Elizabeth, of 5 Mount Pleasant, born 30 October 1886, baptised on 17th November, at Liverpool, St Peter.
Annie, of 25 Cardigan St Wavertree, baptised at Edge Hill, St Catherine, on 23rd May 1888.
Frank, of Harbord Street, baptised on 8th October 1889, at Liverpool, St Peter.
Cheshire: John Wolley (sic), baptised on 3rd May 1903 at Bickerton, son of John, a carrier, and Mary.
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As both Johns (fathers) are in 1901 census with different ages and places of birth, then they can’t be the same person.
Births - Nantwich - mmn Jones
1897 Elsie Elizabeth
1898 Mabel
1900 Bessie - died 1900
1901 Mary - Polly (1911). May in first post
1903 John
This family seems to be the one listed by idyia14.
Mary (mother) looks to be born in Cheshire so where does the information re Liverpool come from?
John says he is married in 1911.
Added
There is also a birth and death for Hilda Mary Woolley 1895/6
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From 1901 info
This looks like Mary
1881 3543/57/9
Mary Jones 5 yrs b Burmardsley, Cheshire
With parents Jabez and Mary and siblings
And John Woolley
1891 2858/117
John Woolley 32 yrs b Spurstow
With mother Betty and brother Richard
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There is a marriage - 1894 Nantwich with John Woolley and Mary Jones on the same page.
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There is a marriage - 1894 Nantwich with John Woolley and Mary Jones on the same page.
20 June 1894 - Bickerton
John Woolley, 36, bachelor, Labourer. Father: John (deceased), Tailor
Mary Jones, 19, spinster. Father: James (deceased), Labourer
Oliver Woolley is one of the witnesses. Residence for both parties ins Bulkeley.
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Thanks for all the info. It's late here in Australia so I will look at it all tomorrow and see what I can figure out. Will also answer your questions if I can.
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Thanks BumbleB. That’s helpful.
It is all speculative at the moment and that information fits :)
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John (born ~1904) had sisters Elsie, May, Hilda and Mabel who had daughters Joan, Nora, Freda and Eileen - cousins to John (born 1927), but I don't know which daughter belongs to which of the mothers, nor who the mothers' spouses were.
Joan, Nora and Freda were Mabel’s children. She was widowed as Wilson in WW1 1918 and remarried Warburton in 1921.
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Thankyou for all of your helpful postings.
The Woolley information as it was passed to me by the family:
John Christopher Woolley was born on 21st December 1927 in Liverpool (Bootle) England.
His parents were John Woolley who died on 9th January 1936 - aged 32 (Liverpool) England, and Angelia Maria Trimarco - her father was Italian
John Christopher immigrated to Australia arriving on 10th February 1949 on the “Ranchi”.
He died on 18th January 2011 in Perth, Western Australia.
John Christopher is reported to have said that there was only one son in his family and they were always called John.
There is also a newspaper clipping which says “My name is John Christopher Woolley. I arrived in Australia in 1949 but I’ve not seen my relatives on my father’s side since 1936 when he died. They are my father’s sisters and nieces and lived in Broxton, Cheshire: Aunt Elsie, May, Hilda and Mabel and cousins Joan, Nora, Frda (sic) and Eileen. Grandma Woolley lived in Blackburn Street, Liverpool, until she died in 1936. I would love to hear from them”, followed by an address in Perth, Western Australia.
Unfortunately there is no other information on the cutting so I don’t know where or when the advert was posted.
I have found the following in the BMD indexes which tie up with the information provided by the family and which I believe to be correct:
John Woolley, death aged 32, Mar qtr 1936, Prescot, Vol 8b, Page 915
John C Woolley, birth, mmn Trimarco, Dec qtr 1927, registered in West Derby, Vol 8b Page 809
John Woolley married Angela M Trimarco, Dec qtr 1926, registered in Liverpool, Vol 8b Page 287
There is also a death for Mary Woolley, aged 60, Mar qtr 1936, Liverpool South, Vol 8b, Page 283 – I wondered it this could be his mother. This would mean that she was born about 1876.
I, too, am tending towards the 1901 census from Cheshire, mainly because the names tie up and the fact that the Mary Woolley who died in 1936 was born in 1876, the same year as the Mary in the census record.
Given that “Freda” was written as “Frda” in the newspaper clipping, perhaps “Mary” was inadvertantly recorded as “May”?
The 1894 Nantwich marriage ties in with regard to the dates, too – and with the comment that there was always only one son named John in the family – so that is possibly the same family. Broxton, Bulkeley and Nantwich are all in the same general area.
I had previously found the marriage of a Mabel Woolley to George W. Wison but could not get it to tie in with the children, so your comment about her having been widowed makes sense. How do you know that he died in 1918? I have now found her remarriage to Stanley Warburton and births of Joan and Nora Warburton, but not Freda. The only Freda Wilson I can find was born in 1920 after George Wilson’s death. Could he have actually died in late 1919 after fathering Freda but before her birth? Do you have any Vols, Page numbers for the births of Joan, Norah and Freda?
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I live in Liverpool and there are many Tremarco family - you have Trimarco - Scottie Press has a Little Italy link
info@scottiepress.org
ask for Little Italy link if you want info on Tremarco family :)
At its peak, there were a couple of hundred Italian families in Little Italy and the family names included Albertini, Baccino, Capaldi, Frediani, Gianelli, Minghella, Podesta, Sabatini, Tremarco, Valerio and Volante.
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William George Wilson KIA 4 April 1918
Widow Mabel and Child Edna Mary
Death Date: 4 Apr 1918
Service Number: 229950
Corps, Regiment or Unit: R. F. A, 15. D A. C
1939 register (available on both FindMyPast and Ancestry, we cannot give direct information from it here) has the family and dates of birth for Freda, Nora and Joan plus 2 redacted entries.
Added.. that newspaper piece was 02 January 1988 - Liverpool Echo
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didn't expect that - a Georgina - a sister to John - but NO Edward - is this tree correct ?
Born 9 April 1905 - Hertfordshire, United Kingdom
Deceased in February 1995 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England, aged 89 years old
Parents
Angelo Maria Trimarco 1864-1946
Mary Ellen Connolly 1874-1940
Spouses and children
Married to John Edward Woolley 1893- with
M John Christopher Woolley
F Angela M Woolley
F Georgina M Woolley
Siblings
F Rosaria Mathilda Trimarco 1893-1921
F Maria Josephina Trimarco 1895-
M Pietro Luigi Trmarco 1897-1937
F Philomena Trimarco 1899-
F Catherine Trimarco 1901-1935
F Vellia Teresa Trimarco 1906-1999
https://gw.geneanet.org/dlokon?n=trimarco&oc=&p=angela+maria
do you know the tree owner - David Okon ??
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Births Jun 1905
Trimarco Angela Maria H. Hempstead 3a 860
Trimarco Francis H. Hempstead 3a 861
was Angela Maria Trimarco a TWIN ??
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Perhaps the tree (above) is partly correct and John C and Angela M have been incorrectly added to it? It seems unusual for there to be 2 Woolley-Trimarco marriages but the dates don't seem to tie up with the information I have for the family.
And, thankyou, mckha489, for finding the source of the newspaper cutting!
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Births Jun 1905
Trimarco Angela Maria H. Hempstead 3a 860
Trimarco Francis H. Hempstead 3a 861
was Angela Maria Trimarco a TWIN ??
Mother's maiden names (from GRO):
Angela Maria - Connolly
Francis - Bulleen
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Electoral registers
4 Blackburne Street - all residents of the house
1930/31
Mary Woolley
Elsie Woolley
Mary Davies
John Robinson Duke
Mary Duke - marriage 1931 Duke/Woolley
1931/2
Mary Woolley
Elsie Woolley
1933/4
Mary Woolley
John Ferris
Leopold Martin
1934/5
Mary Woolley
John Ferris
Albert Harrison
Leopold Martin
1935/36
Mary Woolley
John Ferris
Hilda Woolley
Leopold Martin
There was a death for baby Hilda reported earlier so maybe a second birth naming after her.
The males might be lodgers.
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#reply 19
Birth
Elsie Elizabeth Woolley 1897
Death
Elsie Elizabeth Woolley Bootle 1978
Probate record
Elsie Elizabeth Woolley died 29th January 1978 residence 4 Lunt Road, Bootle
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Baptisms in Bickerton: Woolley or Wolley, all living in Bulkeley
Hilda Mary Woolley, 13th August 1895. John a Huckster (door-to-door salesman)
Death Q3 1896 age 0
Mabel Woolley, 3rd July 1898. John a Carter
Elsie Elizabeth Wolley, 9th May 1897. John a Huckster
Bessy/Bessie Wolley, of Bulkeley, 9th April 1900 in Bickerton. John a Huckster
Death q3 1900 age 0
Mary Wolley, 5th May 1901. John a Carter
John Wolley, 3rd May 1903. John a Carrier
David
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Thanks. That so much looks like the right family. They must have had another child named Hilda later on. I'll have to see if I can find a birth in the BMD.
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There is another record for the death of Hilda Mary. It was under the Cheshire Workhouse Records, and has her death as 5th June 1896, age 11 months, daughter of John of Bulkeley, although it has him as a farmer.
Strange coincidence but this tree has a picture of all of Angela Trimarco's siblings and parents, but the wrong John Woolley.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/tree/111450485/family/familyview?cfpid=252152897980&dtid=100
However, the person who created it doesn't seem to be related to them, but he has a DNA match with me.
I will send him a message, to see if he can be of any help.
David
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That sounds interesting David. I hope you can solve the mystery.
Can you see Mary Woolley anywhere in 1911? John and children are boarding and Elsie is a servant elsewhere.
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One tree has her as Mary (Polly), i.e. the one shown as Polly in 1911. I can't find another Hilda birth.
David
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No, sorry, I mean mother Mary.
I wrote earlier that Polly is a pet name for Mary.
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I wonder if Hilda was not a child of John and Mary.
There is a birth in 1913 in Chester district for Hilda Woolley with mother’s name Woolley.
The only person might be Elsie but she would only be 15/16 yrs so may be not.
1921 index shows Hilda Wooley b 1913, Chester living in Bootle with a Williams family.
She could though have been registered with a different name and called Hilda later.
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I can't find anything about Mary after 1901 but I have found her baptism. All needs checking.
29th December 1875 in Burwardsley, daughter of James, a Shoemaker, and Mary.
I believe that the marriage of her parents was:-
James Jones, widower age 46, Shoemaker of Crewe, son of Samuel Jones, deceased,
Married Mary Price, spinster age 38, of Crewe, daughter of Charles Price, deceased
in Crewe on 9th July 1872
Witnesses: John Price and Margaret Ann Reeves.
I am not sure about their ancestry, but there was a Mary Price, daughter of Charles and Sarah, baptised in Burwardsley on 4th June 1835. However, she doesn't seem to be with them on the censuses.
I think this is James in 1861:-
Lower Town, Burwardsley
James Jones Head 38 1823 Shoemaker Halton, Flintshire, Wales
Lydia Jones Wife 34 1827 Shoemakers wife Willington, Flintshire, Wales
Martha Jones Daughter 8 1853 Scholar Burwardsley, Cheshire
James Jones Son 6 1855 Scholar Burwardsley, Cheshire
John Jones Son 4 1857 Scholar Burwardsley, Cheshire
And 1871 with different birth places:-
Fowlers Bench, Burwardsley
James Jones Head 50 1821 Shoemaker - Shropshire
Lydia Jones Wife 44 1827 - Shropshire
Martha Jones Daughter 18 1853 - Cheshire
James Jones Son 15 1856 - Cheshire
John Jones Son 13 1858 - Cheshire
Lydia was buried in Burwardlsey on 1st June 1871, age 46
James Jones, son of James, married Lydia Shone, daughter of Edward, on 26th December 1844 in Wrexham, Denbighshire.
David
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I have spoken to the family again - and gleaned a bit more information! Georgina was also John's sibling along with Angela and Edward. She was born after her father died in 1936. She married (Tulett) and immigrated to Australia in 1957. Angela married (Rogers) and lived in Liverpool but has since died. Edward died as an infant.
I think that the family tree on Ancestry.com has the wrong John Woolley as I asked why they were sure he died in 1936 aged 32. They have a photo of the gravestone which John Christopher took on a return trip to England. It also has Edward's death recorded on it. On the back it says "Yew Tree cemetery" which is Catholic (Angela Trimarco was Catholic) but I couldn't find it in FindaGrave. I will try and attach the photo to this post.
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I am about 6 miles from Yew Tree Cemetery - if you can find a grave number I can have a look
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Unfortunately, there is nothing else written on the back of the photos and I can't find anything on-line to indicate which plot.
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By the way, when I spoke to the Woolley family, they were aware of Angela Trimarco's sisters Rose, Philomena and Teresa so the tree on ancestry.com does seem basically correct - just, it appears, the wrong John Woolley
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Can anybody help identify the location of John Woolley's gravestone at Yew Tree Cemetery? We would love to know if there is any other information available, either on nearby family memorials or in the cemetery records.
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Garstonite has offered to take a look if you can find the grave number.
There is a telephone contact here for the Archdiocese of Liverpool
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01rev/
http://liverpoolcatholic.org.uk/Finance
You may be able to find further information.
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Thanks, I'll give that a go.
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Wow! Amazing reponse!
Garstonite, if you're still keen, the location of the grave is section 3C 82 in Yew Tree Cemetery. John Woolley was buried on 14-1-1936.
We'd love an up to date photo if you can manage, and any other information you can glean (other family members?)
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There are some Wooleys in Findagrave, including a Samuel Woolley, born in Broxton and died in Tattenhall on 18th January 1881: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/186022596/samuel-woolley
Samuel, son of Thomas and Elizabeth Woolley of Broxton, baptised 22nd March 1795, in Malpas.
I looked to see if he had a link to John of 1903.
His father, on his marriage to Mary Jones, marriage, gave his father as John, a tailor
John Woolley, son of John, a tailor of Alphraham, and Betty nee Mottram, baptised in Bunbury on 3rd May 1856.
From the censuses, John Woolley, the tailor, was born in Rimington or Gisburn, Yorkshire.
John Wooley baptised in Gisburn, Yorkshire, on 26th February 1826, son of Thomas and Margaret.
Thomas Wooley married Margaret Blackburn on 6th August 1825 in Gisburn.
On the censuses, Thomas was born Clotton or Laughton?, Cheshire, c1802.
There is a Clotton, but it might be Clutton, near Broxton, in which case he may have been the son of Charles and Ellen, of Bickerton, near Broxton, baptised on 25th November 1801 in Malpas. Possible marriage to Eleanor Nield in Chester in 1791, and first child, Mary, in Harthill, near Bickerton, in 1792.
I can't find a link to the above Samuel, of Broxton.
Re. James the father of Mary Jones, he was from Halton, north of Chirk, Denbighshire, not Flintshire, and was living in Adenbury Fawr, near Wrexham, Denbighshire, when he married his first wife. I can't find a baptism.
David
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Thanks so much for all the input! I am still pursuing the idea that Hilda may have been Elsie's illegitimate daughter. Heywood, you mention this possibility in one of your posts. I have found a christening record for a Hilda Mary Woolley on 5th Nov 1914, in Bickerton, Cheshire, where the mother's name is Elsie Elizabeth Woolley but no father's name is given. It means that Elsie might have been only 15 when Hilda was born. You also mention "Elsie, in 1911, is a servant in another household in the area" in another post. However, I can't find this census record. Can you point me in the right direction? Or, at least, provide her age and the name of the family she was serving? She would have been quite young at the time.
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I can’t see her or the family she is with on Family Search.
On one site she is transcribed as ‘Eliser’ Woolley, 14 yrs b Malpas. Her name has been corrected by a user to Elsie.
She is a servant in the Brookes family.
The residence is a long place - Waverton, Cotton Abbotts etc
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Thanks for the info, I could not find the record on FamilySearch, either.
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The baptism points to Elsie being the mother so that seems to solve one problem.
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On the 1921 census, Elsie Elizabeth Wolley, born 1897 in Bulkeley, is in Okehampton, Devon.
With her, is a Mary Davies born in Burwardsley in 1888. The other person is Joseph Abram William Davies, born 1889 in Oswestry, possibly Mary's husband.
David
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I am curious as to the whereabouts of Elsie's mother Mary in the 1911 census. The father, John, and the other children seem to be boarders but Mary is not with them. I haven't been able to find her - any ideas?
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Is she with the family later? Do you have a death?
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She died in early 1936, lived in Blackburn St, Liverpool until her death. There are various electoral registers that have her there in the early 1930s with Elsie and later Hilda. It seems odd (to me) that she is not with the rest of the family in 1911.
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Any census is only a snapshot of where people were at midnight on a specific day.
It does not show where people were living!
Maybe visiting relatives, or a friend?
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Yes, I realise that but it just feels odd! I would still like to find where she was on that night!
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She died in early 1936, lived in Blackburn St, Liverpool until her death. There are various electoral registers that have her there in the early 1930s with Elsie and later Hilda. It seems odd (to me) that she is not with the rest of the family in 1911.
Of course, I listed them ::)
She could been omitted by accident in which case that would be it.
I can’t see anyone with her birth details in 1911.
If she were in hospital, I think she would be named rather than just her initials.
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David, i wonder if you could see if you can find Mary Woolley (born Burmardsley, Cheshire, about 1876) in the 1921 census? Hilda (born 1913) has been located in Bootle living with a Williams family.
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I can see Hilda as Wooley but the only possible Mary is in Penistone, Yorkshire.
Mary Woolley b 1876 born in Cheshire. She is with an Alfred Woolley, born in Broxton in 1872.
However, on the previous census, she gave her birth as Flintshire
David
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Thanks for looking but it's probably a bit inconclusive. I was hoping that she would be on the same record as Hilda (with Hilda labelled "granddaughter"!)
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I have a couple of photographs of the Trimarco side of the family. I was hoping that someone who has access to the Trimarco tree in ancestry.com would be able to compare and possibly identify some of the people in these pictures. The first is the Woolley-Trimarco wedding in 1926. The bride and groom are John Woolley (born 1903) and Angela Maria Trimarco. The couple on the far left of the picture at the back are Angela's parents. The woman second on the right at the back is John Woolley's mother but I don't know if it is his father next to her. The girl on the extreme right is Hilda Woolley. The other people are unknown.
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The second photo is a Trimarco wedding - one of Angela's sisters but I don't know which one. The Trimarco parents are the balding chap seated on the left and the largish woman seated second from the right. John and Angela Woolley are at the back to the left of the groom. The other people are unknown but some look very similar to the previous picture. I would say that this photo might have been taken within a couple of years of the previous picture.
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the second one is on a tree and is labelled "Kate Trimarco's wedding"
so Catherina, to George Bradley 1928
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I suspected it might be because I figured it had to be fairly close to the Woolley-Trimarco wedding in 1926. Thanks for the confirmation!
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The 1921 Mary in Penistone was born Pritchard and Alfred was the son of George and Mary nee Formston(e), married in Tilston, near Broxton, in 1872.
Difficult to name the people in the photos because of the age differences, but this is a snapshot.
David
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Hmmm....yes, not so easy. The young man to the left of the groom in the Woolley photo could possibly be Pietro (being the only son in the family), and I'd say that the young ladies in front of the Trimarco parents were Trimarco girls, while the ones on the right could be Woolley girls (none of the Woolleys look terribly happy!) The lady seated second from the left in this picture looks to be the same person sitting on the floor at the right in the Trimarco wedding photo, and the little girl in the centre of the Trimarco wedding appears to be the same as the one front right in the Woolley photo.
I take it there were no names posted on the photo labelled "Kate Trimarco's wedding"?
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I can't see any labels but there is another wedding picture. This is of Maria's wedding and some of the small photos are extracted from it.
Someone asked where it was taken and the reply was " I not sure, but the wedding was 12 October 1919 at St Joseph, Lancashire, England"
David
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Thanks. Interesting attire for some of the younger girls! They almost look as if they should be the bride. Yes, I can see that Philomena and Teresa's (Vellia went by her second name) photos came from this picture (and Angela's has come from Kate's wedding photo.) They might be easier to recognise from the bigger photo.
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I have just had a win! I was speaking to my friend today and telling her that we thought Hilda was Elsie's daughter - and she suddenly remembered that, yes, her father had mentioned that one of his aunts had had an illegitimate child! So, I'm now positive that we have the right family. Thanks so much for all your detective work.
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Another question! There is a census record for Oliver Woolley, age 8, born in 1863, scholar, in the Cheshire area but I am unable to find more detail. Is anyone able to tell me the rest of the family and the location in Cheshire?
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For some reason the 1871 doesn't seem to be showing on FamilySearch, or I would have just posted you a link to that.
They are at Bulkeley, Cheshire
John WOOLLEY 45 a Tailor. b Gisbourne, Yorkshire
Betty 42, wife, b Bulkeley, Cheshire. (as are all that follow)
Richard 17 Ag Lab
John 12 Scholar
Oliver 8
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Brilliant! Thanks so much! I've had trouble with the 1871 census in FamilySearch for a while and, while I've been able to find some records elsewhere, I couldn't find this one. The details are exactly what I wanted to see to tie this family together.
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A bit more detail.
Oliver Woolley baptised in Bunbury on 3rd June 1862, son of John and Betty, a Tailor of Spurstow.
Admitted to Cholmondeley County Primary School in 1874, birth given as 5th May 1862.
Of 44 Bridgewater Street, Longport, age 27, he married Elizabeth Woolley, 23, of 51 Station Street, Longport, daughter of Charles Woolley, a platelayer, on 26th June 1889 in St Paul, Burslem, Staffordshire. Witnesses: Charles Moulson and Mary Ann Chadwick.
They are in Wolstanton in 1891 and had a daughter, Betsy in 1895 but, sadly died in the same year.
1901 as Wooley, a farmer at 1 King William Street, Tunstall, Wolstanton.
There is a newspaper article in The Staffordshire Sentinel about rent being claimed from him in 1904.
Unfortunately, in 1901 there was a report about him being cruel to a horse and fined 40s plus costs.
Nothing found after 1904
Elizabeth Ann was baptised in Goldenhill, Staffordshire, on 11th February 1867, dau of Charles and Ann of Lime Houses (her birth place in 1891 census). Charles was born in Peckforton, Cheshire , and Ann in Spurstow.
Charles was baptised in Peckforton on 5th November 1843, son of Thomas and Margaret, which means that Oliver and Elizabeth were cousins.
Also, John Woolley baptised on 1st June 1856 in Bunbury, parents of Alpraham.
Richard on 10th April 1853 in Bickerton, parents of Bulkeley.
Possible burial as Wooley in Acton on 8th June 1896: Residnece Burland.
David
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I forgot to mention that Charles Woolley married Ann Welch in Wolstanton District in 1865.
Ann baptised in Bunbury on 23rd October 1842, dau of Samuel and Hannah of Spurstow.
Samuel, a widower, was with Charles and Ann in 1881 in Wolstanton.
In 1871, they were in Rowton, Cheshire, where children Thomas, Joseph and Ellen were born, together with Margaret, born in Tunstall. Another daughter Mary Hannah, b 1876, on the 1891 census. No registration or baptisms for the Cheshire children.
Mary Hannah was an unmarried servant in 1911
Staffordshire Sentinel 28 April 1936
BURSLEM WOMAN'S SAD DEATH
An inquest on Miss Mary Hannah Woolley, aged 61, of High View, Burnhayes-road, Burslem, whose body was recovered from the Shropshire Union Canal at Longport on Thursday evening, was held at Burslem Town Hall
David
David
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Very interesting! I had found that Oliver had married Elizabeth but had no idea she was his first cousin. By the way, the John Woolley baptised on 1st June 1856 died in 1858 before he was 2 years old. His burial date was Feb 5th 1858. John and Betty went on to have another son a few months later and christened him John on 28th June 1858. This is the John Woolley who went on to marry Mary Jones in 1894. Oliver Woolley was a witness to the marriage - that's why I was trying to work out where he fitted in the family, and the 1871 census is the only one to have him living with his parents.
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David, Thanks for all of your research so far, it's been very helpful. You posted information about Mary Woolley, nee Jones, which included a possible baptism and marriage of her parents. It all fits together to my mind. However, it's not conclusive. You also found James Jones in the 1861 and 1871 census with his previous wife and children from that marriage. Have you been able to find the family in the 1881 or 1891 census as I can't locate them? I was hoping to find a record that included a Mary - she would have been about 5 in 1881 - and maybe one of the older children so that I could be more sure that we have the right family.
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Unfortunately, I can't find any of the family in 1881
A summary of the evidence:-
Mary Jones, daughter of James, a shoemaker, and Mary, baptised in Burwardsley, on 29th December 1875.
GRO index mmn Price
She is the only Mary baptised in, or near, Burwardsley at that time
On her marriage, she was the daughter of James Jones (deceased).
In 1901 she gave her birth place as Burwardsley.
In 1891, I think she is a servant, b Burwardsley, with Thomas Brereton, a farmer, in Broxton.
David
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I did wonder if she was a servant somewhere at age 15. Thanks for all your help.
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An update: I finally have a copy of the Woolley-Trimarco marriage certificate from 1926. John Woolley was 23 when he married, which puts his birth year as 1903. So, the Woolley family we found is the correct one - and the information up on Ancestry.com is incorrect. Does anyone know how to go about getting it corrected? I have tried contacting the person who entered the information in the first place but have had no response, probably an old email address.
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An update: I finally have a copy of the Woolley-Trimarco marriage certificate from 1926. John Woolley was 23 when he married, which puts his birth year as 1903. So, the Woolley family we found is the correct one - and the information up on Ancestry.com is incorrect. Does anyone know how to go about getting it corrected? I have tried contacting the person who entered the information in the first place but have had no response, probably an old email address.
Ancestry has correct information re John Woolley - birth, census etc.
It is the published tree/s which has wrong information as so often happens.
If you have contacted the owner and there is no response, I don’t think there is much else. At one time, it was possible to add a comment but I am not sure if that facility is still available.
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There is an article on changing records here but, as mentioned, it doesn't seem to apply to trees by other people: https://familyhistorydaily.com/genealogy-help-and-how-to/fix-incorrect-records-on-ancestry/
The only way may be to publish a tree with the correct information and see if others change or respond, but this would need a subscription.
David
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You're right, of course. The records on Ancestry are correct, it's just the tree that is wrong. I have already put the correct information up into FamilySearch (and I will attach a copy of the certificate) so I can only hope that someone else looking for the family checks all possible sources.
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There is a tree on Ancestry which has the correct John Woolley, but not by a relative and no further details of marriage etc.
His sister, Mabel, married his relative,William George Wilson, in 1917. Sadly, he was killed in the war in 1918, but they had a daughter, Edna May, also in 1917.
I can only see the index for 1921, but Edna May Wilson is living with Mabel Wolley (her mother but not as Wilson), John Wolley (b 1857) and Stanley Warburton (b 1898), in Huntington, Harthill, Broxton Parish.
David
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Thanks, that is good to know. That ties up with what I have found out. In fact, everything I found ties in with the known details (names of aunts and cousins, age at death) but there was still one family member in Australia who was inclined to believe the Ancestry tree. I needed the certificate to prove my case.
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The memorial to William George Wilson is here and gives Mabel's residence. The certificate can be downloaded: https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/41756/w-g-wilson/
They married in Q2 1917 and Edna was born in August, so she must have been on the way, which happened again.
I found this article, which didn't make sense at first:-
Chester Chronicle 14 September 1940
"The wedding took place at St. Boniface’s Church, on Tuesday, the Vicar (the Rev. D. 1. W. Phillips) performing the ceremony, of Miss Edna May Wilson, daughter of the late Mr. W. Wilson, and of Mrs. S. Warburton, and Mr. R T. Mathews, youngest son of Mr. R. T. Mathews.
The bride was given away by Mr Warburton...
...the Misses Freda and Nora Warburton (sisters)...
...the Misses Joan, Nesta and Brenda Warburton..."
Then I found that Stanley Warburton married Mabel Wilson in Q2 1921.
Cheshire BMD has Stanley twice, once to Mabel Wilson and once to Mabel Woolley, which means that the name of her father was different from her married name.
They had at least five Children:
WILSON, FREDA mmn WOOLLEY (as Tredda in 21 Cen)
GRO Reference: 1920 S Quarter in CHESTER Volume 08A Page 741
Married Frederick G Walmsley Q2 1942 Crewe district
WARBURTON, NORA mmn WOOLLEY
GRO Reference: 1922 D Quarter in CHESTER Volume 08A Page 507
Married Herbert Wakeley Q4 1943 Crewe district
WARBURTON, JOAN mmn WOOLLEY
GRO Reference: 1926 D Quarter in NANTWICH Volume 08A Page 497
Married Gordon C Jones Q3 1948 Crewe district
Nesta Warburton
Birth quarter 1 1935 mmn Woolley Chester District
Probably married Thomas E A Ledward Q2 1958 Crewe district
Brenda Warburton
Birth quarter 3 1936 mmn Woolley Chester District
Probably married Charles R Clarke Q3 1956 Crewe district
Mabel must have a lot of descendants. I think she died in Q3 1970 in Northwich district and Stanley in Q1 1983 in Congleton and Crewe district.
David
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Thanks for this information - definitely ties the family together, particularly the reference to Edna's wedding. I had not found that detail. The only person I have not been able to trace was John Christopher Woolley's cousin Eileen. I presume that she was the daughter of one of the other aunts he mentioned (Elsie or Mary) but, without knowing their married names, I have not managed to find out if one of them had a daughter Eileen.