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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Glamorganshire => Wales => Glamorganshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Horgan on Saturday 19 March 22 10:09 GMT (UK)

Title: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: Horgan on Saturday 19 March 22 10:09 GMT (UK)
Hi I'm looking for my grandfather William Thomas Williams 1900-1972 he was married to my grandmother Ruby Ball 1902-1996 thay were separated and never devoced I'm let to beleave that he came from the Merthyr Tydfil Glamorgan area my grandmother lived in Ogmore terrace Nantymoel Glamorgan Wales if that helps
Any info would be helpful as William Thomas Williams is a mystery
Thank you
Title: Re: Re: William Williams Family Merthyt Tydfil Parrish Records Lookup Request
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 19 March 22 11:35 GMT (UK)
Hi Horgan

Does your William Williams connect to williadd2000 family?  If not - you need to ask the moderator to separate your post to avoid confusion between the 2 families

I see you already have a post re your William

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=851495.0
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: Horgan on Wednesday 21 August 24 08:35 BST (UK)
New info
Hi I'm looking for the mother and father for a Mr William Thomas Williams ,born 1900 in Ystrad Glamorgan Wales he died on 18 May 1970 London England we believe he died from Cancer and he was cremated on 22 May 1970 in Southwark London England
There's a census record for 1901 were the family was located in Merthyr Tydfil Glamorgan wales but I can't find were the family lived in  Merthyr Tydfil or who the parents of Mr William Thomas Williams were ,

Mr William Thomas Williams was allso married in 1920 to Ruby Ball in Glamorgan Wales and thay had 3 children 2 girls and 1 boy ,

Any help to try and find the parents of Mr William Thomas Williams and where thay lived or where thay were born or died would help the family history alot Thank you .
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 21 August 24 09:20 BST (UK)
Perhaps it would be a good idea if you give us the details from the 1901 that you are referring to, including the reference numbers
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 21 August 24 09:26 BST (UK)
Do you have this marriage certificate as it should name his father
Marriage Mar qtr 1920
Ball, Ruby     
Williams,  William T    
Bridgend    11a   1599
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: softly softly on Wednesday 21 August 24 09:47 BST (UK)
A possible starting point, based only on details from your post.

In 1938-50 electoral register he is living with an Alice @ 60. Westlake Road, Bermondsey, Southwark.

In 1939 he is living in Bermondsey, Southwark, with Alice. date and month correct, year 1893.

Deaths Jun 1970   
WILLIAMS    William Thomas    24Mr1894    Southwark    5e   30

SS
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: Horgan on Wednesday 21 August 24 11:27 BST (UK)
Perhaps it would be a good idea if you give us the details from the 1901 that you are referring to, including the reference numbers
Hi the reference to the 1901 census was on a Ancestry hint
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: Horgan on Wednesday 21 August 24 11:29 BST (UK)
Do you have this marriage certificate as it should name his father
Marriage Mar qtr 1920
Ball, Ruby     
Williams,  William T    
Bridgend    11a   1599
Thank you but no I only know when and that it may of been in South wales
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 21 August 24 11:34 BST (UK)
You need to purchase that marriage certificate to establish who he claims to be his father.  With a surname like Williams in Wales you could be following completely the wrong family, that goes for Ancestry trees too as they are not reliable.
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: Horgan on Wednesday 21 August 24 11:35 BST (UK)
You need to purchase that marriage certificate to establish who he claims to be his father.  With a surname like Williams in Wales you could be following completely the wrong family, that goes for Ancestry trees too as they are not reliable.
Thank you for the info much appreciated
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: softly softly on Wednesday 21 August 24 11:38 BST (UK)
Horgan, I have to agree 100% with Rosie. If you are really serious about your family history then the certainty of establishing the fathers name and occupations is a must. Until you do I personally cannot offer any more positive input.

SS
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: Horgan on Wednesday 21 August 24 11:39 BST (UK)
Horgan, I have to agree 100% with Rosie. If you are really serious about your family history then the certainty of establishing the fathers name and occupations is a must. Until you do I personally cannot offer any more positive input.

SS
OK thank you for your help
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Wednesday 21 August 24 15:44 BST (UK)
Ancestry hints are notoriously wrong most times. Best not to base your FH from them.

Most trees, and there are many (not all correct) for both William & Ruby have his birth as

WILLIAMS, WILLIAM  THOMAS  mmn   JENKINS 
GRO Reference: 1900  J Quarter in BRIDGEND  Volume 11A  Page 839

Which would make sense as they married in Bridgend reg district. As mentioned the marriage cert is a must in Welsh research.

There is a possible in the Llangeinor area 1901/1911 with parents John & Hannah. Hopefully the marriage will confirm father. As well as address.

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/Llangeinor
 
Good luck

Cas
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 21 August 24 15:56 BST (UK)

WILLIAMS, WILLIAM  THOMAS  mmn   JENKINS 
GRO Reference: 1900  J Quarter in BRIDGEND  Volume 11A  Page 839


Trouble is that the date for his birth that was given when he apparently died was 24 Mar 1894, this almost agrees with the record in 1939.  The marriage certificate would be the way to go.
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Wednesday 21 August 24 16:05 BST (UK)

WILLIAMS, WILLIAM  THOMAS  mmn   JENKINS 
GRO Reference: 1900  J Quarter in BRIDGEND  Volume 11A  Page 839


Trouble is that the date for his birth that was given when he apparently died was 24 Mar 1894, this almost agrees with the record in 1939.  The marriage certificate would be the way to go.

The death is likely based on an Anc* hint,  in agreement with the marriage details being needed, as mentioned.
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: softly softly on Wednesday 21 August 24 16:37 BST (UK)
Deleted
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: Horgan on Wednesday 21 August 24 18:38 BST (UK)
Ancestry hints are notoriously wrong most times. Best not to base your FH from them.

Most trees, and there are many (not all correct) for both William & Ruby have his birth as

WILLIAMS, WILLIAM  THOMAS  mmn   JENKINS 
GRO Reference: 1900  J Quarter in BRIDGEND  Volume 11A  Page 839

Which would make sense as they married in Bridgend reg district. As mentioned the marriage cert is a must in Welsh research.

There is a possible in the Llangeinor area 1901/1911 with parents John & Hannah. Hopefully the marriage will confirm father. As well as address.

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/Llangeinor
 
Good luck

Cas
Thank you that's very helpfull very much appreciated
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: Horgan on Wednesday 21 August 24 18:39 BST (UK)

WILLIAMS, WILLIAM  THOMAS  mmn   JENKINS 
GRO Reference: 1900  J Quarter in BRIDGEND  Volume 11A  Page 839


Trouble is that the date for his birth that was given when he apparently died was 24 Mar 1894, this almost agrees with the record in 1939.  The marriage certificate would be the way to go.
Thank you
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: softly softly on Wednesday 21 August 24 19:38 BST (UK)
Info only

Re the trees that suggest William Thomas Williams dob is 24.12.1900. He can be found as a single man in 1939 in Sodbury as Thomas W. This is the area he died in, in 1970. There are 2 others in the household. Possibly his mother, and a Joseph C (Christmas) Williams- his mmn Heard.

Deaths Jun 1971   
WILLIAMS    Joseph Christmas    25De1909    Caernarvon    8a   570


SS
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: Horgan on Wednesday 21 August 24 20:34 BST (UK)
1
Info only

Re the trees that suggest William Thomas Williams dob is 24.12.1900. He can be found as a single man in 1939 in Sodbury as Thomas W. This is the area he died in, in 1970. There are 2 others in the household. Possibly his mother, and a Joseph C (Christmas) Williams- his mmn Heard.

Deaths Jun 1971   
WILLIAMS    Joseph Christmas    25De1909    Caernarvon    8a   570


SS
Thank you very much I'll be using the info to check out any info I find much appreciated
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: softly softly on Wednesday 21 August 24 20:40 BST (UK)
Horgan, just how sure are you with regard to William Thomas Williams dying in and around 1970-2 in Southwark. I ask as I have found a birth and baptism for a William Thomas Williams with the same birthdate as the one who died in 1970.

SS
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: Horgan on Wednesday 21 August 24 20:44 BST (UK)
Horgan, just how sure are you with regard to William Thomas Williams dying in and around 1970-2 in Southwark. I ask as I have found a birth and baptism for a William Thomas Williams with the same birthdate as the one who died in 1970.

SS
Hi I got the info from deceased online >iv copied and pasted below<
Cremation Register summary
last name Williams
first names William Thomas
cremation date 22 May 1970


https://www.deceasedonline.com/servlet/GSDOSearch?DetsView=Summary&src=ext&fileid=13647747
location Southwark
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: softly softly on Wednesday 21 August 24 20:48 BST (UK)
Ok, how is he related to you please, I will not post what I've found until you respond.

SS
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: Horgan on Wednesday 21 August 24 20:51 BST (UK)
Ok, how is he related to you please, I will not post what I've found until you respond.

SS

I'm his granddaughter his wife Ruby Ball was my grandmother my mother was there daughter Eileen Williams, my mother had 1 sister Olga and 1 brother Terence I can send you my real name dob by private message if necessary
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: softly softly on Wednesday 21 August 24 21:04 BST (UK)
Ok, here's what I found but needs checking out. I'm wondering if he was in the services in Wales when he met up with Ruby Ball.

His birth registration

WILLIAMS, WILLIAM  THOMAS     mmn MILLICHOPE 
GRO Reference: 1894  J Quarter in ST OLAVE SOUTHWARK  Volume 01D  Page 274.

His parents are Henry George Dwelling Williams and Frances Catherine Millichope, they married 29th March 1892--image of marriage on Anc*


William Thomas Williams was baptised 11th April 1894, born 24th March 1894

Image of baptism on Anc*

SS
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: Horgan on Wednesday 21 August 24 21:11 BST (UK)
Ok, here's what I found but needs checking out. I'm wondering if he was in the services in Wales when he met up with Ruby Ball.

His birth registration

WILLIAMS, WILLIAM  THOMAS     mmn MILLICHOPE 
GRO Reference: 1894  J Quarter in ST OLAVE SOUTHWARK  Volume 01D  Page 274.

His parents are Henry George Dwelling Williams and Frances Catherine Millichope, they married 29th March 1892--image of marriage on Anc*


William Thomas Williams was baptised 11th April 1894, born 24th March 1894

Image of baptism on Anc*

SS

Thank you very much I will check out the info much appreciated every little hint helps me sort out my family history ,
Yes I believe William Thomas Williams was in the armed forces at the time he met Ruby Ball thay later separated with out a divorce, there was a story that there was family in the London area but I have not found any so far ,
Thank you again for your help
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: softly softly on Wednesday 21 August 24 21:12 BST (UK)
Death of father.

WILLIAMS, HENRY  GEORGE     aged36 
GRO Reference: 1910  J Quarter in ST OLAVE BERMONDSEY  Volume 01D  Page 109

SS
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: Horgan on Wednesday 21 August 24 21:14 BST (UK)
Death of father.

WILLIAMS, HENRY  GEORGE     aged36 
GRO Reference: 1910  J Quarter in ST OLAVE BERMONDSEY  Volume 01D  Page 109

SS
Thank you
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: softly softly on Wednesday 21 August 24 21:16 BST (UK)
Frances his mother appears as a widow in 1911 census with 9 children, one of whom William aged 17 but his name has been scored out.

SS
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: Horgan on Wednesday 21 August 24 21:21 BST (UK)
Frances his mother appears as a widow in 1911 census with 9 children, one of whom William aged 17 but his name has been scored out.

SS
Don't think that's the same William Thomas Williams as my grandfather was born in 1900
I do know that my mother Eileen Williams was born in Llanelli wales if that helps
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: softly softly on Wednesday 21 August 24 21:23 BST (UK)
Ok, the marriage cert is a must.

SS
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: softly softly on Wednesday 21 August 24 21:28 BST (UK)
Can confirm that he is not your man. His mother  Florence appears as Florence Reed in 1921 with William and siblings as step children.

SS
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: softly softly on Thursday 22 August 24 09:49 BST (UK)
Do you have any of the birth certificate images of the children born to william & ruby and if so what occupation is given for william

SS
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: Horgan on Thursday 22 August 24 10:22 BST (UK)
Can confirm that he is not your man. His mother  Florence appears as Florence Reed in 1921 with William and siblings as step children.

SS
OK thank you
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 22 August 24 10:40 BST (UK)
Let us know when you get the marriage certificate  :)
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: Horgan on Thursday 22 August 24 10:42 BST (UK)
Let us know when you get the marriage certificate  :)
OK thank you for your help
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: hanes teulu on Thursday 22 August 24 11:00 BST (UK)
Ruby, age 5? - tab down to Sunday School Anniversary, col 2

https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3874532/3874535/25/ruby%2BOR%2Bball
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: hanes teulu on Thursday 22 August 24 11:27 BST (UK)
https://newspapers.library.wales/

Click on link and pop "ogmore terrace" (including the "   ") in Search and hit Search - 30 hits returned.
Pop "ball" ("   " NOT required) in "Search within these results" - 6 hits.

Click on title to view item.
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: Horgan on Thursday 22 August 24 11:49 BST (UK)
Ruby, age 5? - tab down to Sunday School Anniversary, col 2

https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3874532/3874535/25/ruby%2BOR%2Bball

Wow thank you that's the correct Ruby Ball aged 5 years old,
I recognise some names in the article with her > E M Horgan is Ruby's cousin think E M Horgans father was Patrick Horgan who was Rubys mum Elizabeth Ball born Horgan,s
brother ,allso possibly Edith Morgan may allso of been a cousin to Ruby ?as Patrick Horgans Wife was Mary Morgan?
Patrick is buried in strangers cemetery portland dorset and his wife we think is buried in Blaenogwr cemetery Ogmore wales? And Patrick's daughter E M Horgan is allso in with her father possibly a cremation?
Thank you for the news article that's very kind of you to find it thank you
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: hanes teulu on Thursday 22 August 24 12:08 BST (UK)
I'd checked a few other names on the list and Horgan jumped out given your posting moniker.
You should enjoy some of the other items to be found on Welsh newspapers for the Ball family at Nantymoel.



 
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: Horgan on Thursday 22 August 24 12:37 BST (UK)
I'd checked a few other names on the list and Horgan jumped out given your posting moniker.
You should enjoy some of the other items to be found on Welsh newspapers for the Ball family at Nantymoel.



 
Thank you I'll investigate 😉
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: Horgan on Saturday 24 August 24 11:43 BST (UK)
Let us know when you get the marriage certificate  :)
Hi thank you iv asked the Bridgend registration office for help
I have found some info on the documents for obtaining a certificate
The registered marriage is under
Volume 11a
Page 1599
Transcriber name Julie Roberts
Record number  232675
Scan entry ANC-04/A-J/1920M1-B-0036.jpg
Iv sent this to the Bridgend registration office if I obtain the certificate hopefully ill be able to find out the info I'm looking for
Thank you for your help
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 24 August 24 11:54 BST (UK)
The references you have there are from the GRO (Volume 11a /Page 1599) or Ancestry.com references and would not normally be any use to a registration office.    If the RO is unable to help you then I would suggest you order from GRO as I understand Ancestry charge a lot more.
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Saturday 24 August 24 12:30 BST (UK)
Do you have this marriage certificate as it should name his father
Marriage Mar qtr 1920
Ball, Ruby     
Williams,  William T    
Bridgend    11a   1599

You should be able to obtain the cert from Bridgend RO giving the couples names, year and quarter they married. This will be normally a hand written copy of marriage details by the clerk or RO employee.  It can be more expensive, along with Ancestry, as Rosie mentions.

A marriage cert directly from GRO is a scanned copy of the original document. Currently £11.00 or was a few months back.

If unaware this is the link, free to register and view index

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp#Results

Cas
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 24 August 24 12:48 BST (UK)
£14.50 from Bridgend
https://www.bridgend.gov.uk/residents/births-deaths-and-marriages/current-fees/

It looks as though GRO are £12.50 quoting the reference number  ::)
https://www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-death-marriage-certificate
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: Horgan on Saturday 24 August 24 18:06 BST (UK)
£14.50 from Bridgend
https://www.bridgend.gov.uk/residents/births-deaths-and-marriages/current-fees/

It looks as though GRO are £12.50 quoting the reference number  ::)
https://www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-death-marriage-certificate
Thank you
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: Horgan on Saturday 24 August 24 18:07 BST (UK)
1
Do you have this marriage certificate as it should name his father
Marriage Mar qtr 1920
Ball, Ruby     
Williams,  William T    
Bridgend    11a   1599

You should be able to obtain the cert from Bridgend RO giving the couples names, year and
quarter they married. This will be normally a hand written copy of marriage details by the clerk or RO employee.  It can be more expensive, along with Ancestry, as Rosie mentions.

A marriage cert directly from GRO is a scanned copy of the original document. Currently £11.00 or was a few months back.

If unaware this is the link, free to register and view index

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp#Results


Cas
Thank you
Title: Re: William Thomas Williams 1900-1972
Post by: Horgan on Saturday 24 August 24 18:07 BST (UK)
£14.50 from Bridgend
https://www.bridgend.gov.uk/residents/births-deaths-and-marriages/current-fees/

It looks as though GRO are £12.50 quoting the reference number  ::)
https://www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-death-marriage-certificate
Thank you