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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Annbee on Wednesday 16 March 22 01:48 GMT (UK)
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Hello, hoping there's someone who is a whiz at wills :) This one is from 1827. It would be very helpful to know the place names in particular. I am posting a single slab of the will and then I have broken it down into 3 sections in case that makes it easier to read. Grateful for your knowledge.
It reads "... John Powell of Ponyty-X? (Pontyruthon?) within the parish of Llanvihangel ...X? Llewern in the County of Monmouth, Gentleman being of sound mind and memory and understanding at the time of the making hereof first ....X? that all my first debts shall be fully paid and satisfied within twelve? months after my decease or as soon as can routinely? be done and that my funeral expenses be paid and in as? ....x? as soon may be but not until six months after my decease. I give and bequeath? unto to my dear wife Jane Powell the whole of my share? and interest in all those? three? fields ...x? ...x? parcels? of meadows? of pasture land situated and being at P...X? Cawsty? within the parish of Abergavenny in the said County of Monmouth formerly the property of my uncle Mr William Powell deceased ETC"
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The first placename begins: Llanvihangel yestern...
...making hereof first I will
and desire that all my just debts shall be fully paid and satisfied within twelve months next after my
decease or so soon after as ^can^ conveniently be done.....be paid and
discharged as soon as may be.....decease I give and devise unto my...
...Powell the whole of my share and interest in all those three fields pieces or
parcels of meadow or pasture land situated and being at Penny* Cawsey within...
* Reference to Pen a Cawsey in the hamlet of Clytha at Gwent Record Office here:
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/download/GB0218%20D%201078
This might be the place but ideally you should confirm with a local expert.
ADDED:
Pontyruthon looks to be correct.
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Thank you horselydown and Pen a (or y) Cawsey in the hamlet of Clytha is a real possibility.
Did you have any ideas for the beginning of the will: "...John Powell of Ponyty-X? (Pontyruthon?) within the parish ETC"? That one really had me stumped. I can only find Pontypool and Pontypridd in Ponty names. It is possible perhaps that the property John Powell resided in had its own name and wasn't a location as such.
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...John Powell
of Pontyruthon* within the parish of Llanvihangel yestern Llewern**...
* I can't rule out: Pontyruchon
** The end of this word is barely legible. Certainly it begins Llew_.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llanvihangel-Ystern-Llewern
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It has to be Llewern because it naturally follows the Llanvihangel Ystern.
Re Pontyruthon/ruchon, I think it might signify the name of the farm. Maybe the entrance road went over a small bridge to the farm - and I'm thinking this because 'ponty' means bridge.
On google map, there seems to be a few houses in the area which have a bridge over a stream.
Thank you!
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Pont yr ychain perhaps??
in the parish of Llanvihangel-ystern-Llewern, Monmouth(shire)
- https://historicplacenames.rcahmw.gov.uk/placenames/recordedname/8719b737-9ef6-4369-9b52-7234e21bc6ca
- https://www.genuki.org.uk/gaz/MON/LlanvihangelYsternLlewern
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Bluesofa, your suggestion could be a real contender too. The map is fantastic, thank you for the link.
I might have to get back to you all with more from the will; I'm trying to work out John Powell's finances :) He may mention another property.
Thank you for this.
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I agree with Bluesofa. It's to the north west of Llanvihangel yestern Llewern
http://streetmap.co.uk/map?x=341874&y=214927&z=115&sv=341874,214927&st=4&ar=Y,y&mapp=map&searchp=ids&dn=828&ax=341874&ay=214927&lm=0
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I'm thinking this because 'ponty' means bridge.
Being a bit pedantic, 'Pont' means bridge. 'y' or 'yr' just means the
Add - My rusty Welsh suggests it means the bridge of the cattle or oxen. This would fit as there looks to be mainly farming land around there.
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Bluesofa, Gadget, Horselydown... Anyone :)
Gadget, you are right to correct the Bridge translation: I managed to turn Pont into a too-cute Ponty :)
Thanks all of you for the maps, they have has helped me track down a house called Pont Yr Uchen, heritage listed today, and that may be the location. There is reference online to various names of "Pont-y-rychain", "Pont-yr-ychain" or "Pont-yr-uchain Farm", Talycoed.
A new detective job: I have tracked down a second will made by the Uncle of this John Powell of the first will. Uncle leaves him not the Pont Yr Uchen house but I gather it is interest in another property at Llantillio (sic, their spelling) Pertholey. Uncle William, an Excise Officer, moved to Abergavenny from a place I cannot decipher. That is picture no 1. Something..."ford"? It says city and I haven't found a city ending in 'ford' in Wales. If he was an Excise Officer in the late 1700s I might suppose the City was a coastal city?
Pic no 2 is from Uncle William's will as well. As far as I can make out, Uncle is leaving this property at Llantillio to remain occupied by two ironmongers called John Straker and John Lewis. (Straker is still occupying land when John Powell dies 2 decades later). The only reference in Uncle's will that connects John Powell to inheriting the property is this section and the side ^ insertion on the side of the will. So it reads "...occupation of my brother ...^ John Powell to X? the same to them? the X? John Straker and ^...John Lewis their sons heirs? X? and X? for and during the term of five hundred years in years to be X? from the day of my death ETC"
The final pic is from John Powell's will where he mentions the Llantillio Pertholey property at "X? in the said county of Monmouth"?
I also have trouble reading that first line describing "Copyholds X? or Tenements? Gardens Lands hereto ETC"
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Could the city be Hereford. This is to the north east of Abergavenny:
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map?x=355297&y=242616&z=140&sv=355297,242616&st=4&ar=y&mapp=map&searchp=ids&dn=829&ax=355297&ay=242616&lm=0
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I was just about to say the same thing. I also can't find a city ending in 'ford' in Wales, so if it is 'ford' then it may not be in Wales, also leading me to hereford.
It is possible to find an Excise Officer in the City of Hereford in 1856 - see Robert Coats here: http://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/digital/collection/p16445coll4/id/306679/rec/6
However, I don't know if there would be Excise Officers there before the building of the Herefordshire and Gloucestershire Canal.
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I had cousins living near Abergavenny and Hereford was regarded as close by . It's very close to the border and is a large settlement. The Severn and Wye are navigable*,. As far as I recall, Excise officers were not required to live on the coast.
* add to at least Gloucester and beyond
Hereford (/ˈhɛrɪfərd/ (audio speaker iconlisten))[citation needed] is a cathedral city, civil parish and the county town of Herefordshire, England. It lies on the River Wye, approximately 16 miles (26 km) east of the border with Wales, 24 miles (39 km) southwest of Worcester, and 23 miles (37 km) northwest of Gloucester. With a population of 60,800,[2] it is by far the largest settlement in Herefordshire.
An early town charter from 1189 granted by Richard I of England describes it as "Hereford in Wales".[3] Hereford has been recognised as a city since time immemorial, with the status being reconfirmed as recently as October 2000.[4][5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hereford
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Just found this
3. Report of the Comrs of Excise to the Lords of the Treasury, on the petition of Thomas Clarke, a collector of Excise in the counties of Hereford and Worcester, stating that he was indebted 2,091l. 19s. 10d., and that they had caused him to be sued, and were of opinion that they ought so to have done. Undated.
Also an order in Council and his petition.
Minuted:—“19th Apr. 1700. Agree wth the report.” 5 pages.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/cal-treasury-papers/vol2/pp381-395
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Gadet and Bluesofa, I think you are right. I looked at a list of cities ending in 'ford' and Hereford is the only one I found to fit. And yes Herefordshire and Worcestershire and Monmouthshire (and all the bordering counties) have/had a lot of toing and froing over the centuries. I originally come from Worcestershire. The route from ports and from, say, London would pass through those English counties. Interestingly (or not!) the woman whose portrait compelled this research I was told was a merchant who would travel through Worcester. Here's the portrait of her. She must've been a go getter in 1810! I'm researching for a very ill friend, trying to solve the mystery of the portrait (her family didn't know her full name or much about her).
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A very fine portrait. Powell, as you probably know is a Welsh surname which derives from the patronymic ap Hywel (son of Hywel)
A personal aside -
I was born and grew up in North Wales and was in secondary school from 1956 to 1963. My first atlas for Geography was Philip's Modern Atlas of Wales and Monmouthshire.I still have it.
;D
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Also, not this Powell family, but my own was heavily involved in river transportation in the early 1700s right through to early 1900s - so I can see Hereford would be a river city 'port' as it were.The River Wye is close to the River Severn etc. I've read that smuggling was rife on boats, so again another reason Excise might be needed inland. Although Excise isn't necessarily to do with Customs in the early days.... Perhaps coincidentally but I like to imagine it was nepotism, the Excise Uncle's nephew' John's son-in-law, who was an impoverished Gentleman most of his life (he didn't appear to work either) ended up in Australia his final ten years - working in Customs! I will add that nephew John, of the other Will , was in the Royal Navy, a surgeon in the late 1700s... So maybe it was nepotism ;D
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Gadget, lucky you growing up in Wales. When I was a child in Worcester, I wished I'd been born just a little bit more West so I'd have a lovely lilting accent - and be able to sing,! Yes, I knew about ap' Hywel/Howell/Powell. That was all that was on the back of the picture. That, the date of portrait and one other family name. Now I have a good swag of stories I am writing up for my friend and her family. They didn't know they had so much Welsh history - they identify with being European Jewish. They'll love this.
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Copyhold, messuages or Tenements:
Copyhold - land that was land that was part of a Manor (which was an area of land owned by the 'Lord of the Manor)'. but was held in copyhold. Thus, it was not 'freehold' but a little like leasehold
Messuages or Tenements - 'a dwelling house with its adjacent buildings and the lands appropriated to the use of the household'.
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Snippet from British Newspaper Archive "parishes of John and Saint Martin, within the Hereford, to or near the ford; and to join and communicate ock (?) and Abergavenny Canal, Ah- of Lanfoift, near the town I order of the Promoters, WILLIAM POWELL. .3t,, 1793 . ?HAT, AND WHITNEY CANAL: Notice ..."
I don't currently have a subscription. But looks like in 1793, William Powell had something to do with Canals. I think round about this time they were planning the Abergavenny Canal; and that they built it but in the end it wasn't the financial success they'd hoped.
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I'll have a look at the newspapers later today unless others might be able to turn it up.
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I take it that you've looked through the collections of the National Library of Wales. It is likely to have a considerable amount of material relevant to your research:
https://www.library.wales/
When I was researching the few wealthy ancestors that I have, the online resources there were a goldmine! Also just background information about the landowners in the areas that I was interested in.
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Thanks Gadget, much appreciated. I've not had great luck at finding the (right) (and there were many) Powells in the Welsh Newspaper Archives. Despite being a reasonably good searcher in other newspaper archives. (In Australia they have a great one called Trove) (I text correct for them occasionally).
FYI, there's William Powell the Excise Officer, of Hereford and Abergavenny, his wife Rachel (who I think lived to a grand old age, she or her doppleganger was in the death notices). There's William's brother John Powell who lived on Llantillio Perthorey property, and I assume this John was father of the nephew John Powell since 2nd John inherited what his dad inherited. 2nd John Powell was a Navy Surgeon, based in Portsmouth. Definitely a surgeon early 1800s. And maybe late 1700s; he was on 2 vessels: the Vestal and the first Charwell (captured from the French and renamed Charwell).
There were also Powells in Abergavenny who were Attorneys at Law and had the same names of William, John and an additional Walter. I have their William's will as well, to cross check. They are probably cousins of some sort.
John Powell the RN Surgeon had a son called Horatio Nelson Powell who became a well known steeplechaser who trained as a lawyer in his earlier years. He is the one who figures most in newspapers. He was v. newsworthy in a calamity charmer sort of way: he maybe got drunk and attacked a cab driver when he was 23, he maybe 'frauded' someone else, certainly when he arrived in Australia quite late in his life, he was probably running from debts. In the short 10 or so years he was in Australia he clearly trod on toes and upset people. He ended up being thrown from his buggy and killed in the (then) rudimentary hot and dusty Murray River town of Echuca. (although in England it was reported as New Zealand). In his will he revoked the small amount of money he was going to leave his sister and her family - he said he was revoking the money as a consequence of their treatment of him the last time he saw them!
But I digress :)
Grateful for you to have a quick look, but don't go too far down the rabbit hole. There are way too many Powells down there...
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I can't see an answer to Reply #9 so:
1. Confirming it is the City of Hereford.
2:
...now in the occupation of my Brother ^John Powell to hold the same to them the s(ai)d John Straker and^ John Lewis
their heirs Ex(ecut)ors Adm(inistrat)ors and Assigns for and during the term of ffive hundred
years to be computed from the day...
Note that Straker is an Ironmonger but Lewis is a Butcher.
3: In the final image I believe it says: ...Llantillio Pertholey or elsewhere in the said County...
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Ann - do you have William's dates, please?
I've found a number of refs in Nat Lib and newspapers but I'm not sure if it is him.
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Gadget, the only dates for William Powell, Uncle and Excise Officer, are the dates on his will:
Made 13 June 1809 and Proven 5 Feb 1810. Yet I cannot find his burial (on freeREG). It sounds like he would have died shortly after making his will given that there is usually a six month period before being proven. These are the UK wide results I got on freeREG: https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_queries/6233ce88f493fd3a0e0a3436?locale=en#5818071ee93790ec75ad9f2c
Apart from his will and now the news article you found, I know nothing else about him. In his will he has wife Rachel and children William (eldest), Thomas, Elizabeth and John are named.
Nor do I have his nephew John's birth date OR his burial date/place (I have the ballpark dates when his will was proven).
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Thanks for library link, Gadget. I've found yet more smoking guns as to who these Powells might be. I've download two wills of Seth Powell Snr and Jnr who might be William Excise Office Powell's father and grandfather I will have to investigate on the weekend.
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Abergavenny St Mary Burials
5 Feb 1810 William Powell, Attorney at Law
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Would this be a possible marriage. It's the only one that would fit in the time period.
Llanddewi Rhydderch 20 May 1769
William Powell of the parish of Lanarth and Rachel Morgan of this parish
Witnesses - John Morgan and Mary Philips
They and their witnesses all made their mark though .
Llanddewi and Llan-arth are neighbouring parishes to the south east of Abergavenny
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MON/Llanarth
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MON/LlanthewyRytherch
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Just adding this as a possible birth which would make the marriage unlikely:
Llantilio Pertholey Baptisms
19 Oct 1752
William Powell son of Seth Powell, gent
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You've been busy! So have I, though late at night now and computer is off. But (1) 2 William Powells in Abergavenny died within a year of each other. I have the lawyer's Will too, and he too has a John Powell in it. But the the Will of the Excise Officer matches best the Will of John Powell, mainly the property Pertholey and the resident John Straker. The Excise William I found died 1809. I think I found burial but don't have details at hand...
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(2) the marriage of William and Rachel is the Excise Officer, I found similar information, whereabouts not at hand.
(3) Seth Powell is right too. There was Seth Snr and Seth Junior. Seth Snr b about 1680-90 (I forget right now) and died 1723. I found his burial on archive.org in a register book from Landdewi. Sadly, his wife Margaret died Sept 1722, Seth made his Will in November (yes, I found another Will!) then died in April 1723.
Perhaps Seth knew he was going to die. He particularly set out guardians for their two soon to be orphaned infants.
Seth Jnr went on to have a longer and more successful life. Born 1718, died 1785.
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According to several (patchy and conflicting) genealogy trees on Family Search, children of Seth number about 9. (Won't list them now) One was William Powell 1752-1809 ie the Excise Officer. Another was John Powell born 1758. I am now wondering if THIS is the John Powell, whose Will of 1827 I first discovered and am focused on.
But I still can't figure out who he meant by his 'uncle' William Powell. I will be nutting out more on the weekend.
I can see this group of Powells were quite important in Abergavenny in the 16-1800s. Seth Jnr, for example, is mentioned as holding roles in the town in a book I found. I'd like to find his grave. It might provide an extra link.