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Independent Islands => Alderney, Guernsey, Jersey, Sark => Channel Islands Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Claremd on Monday 14 March 22 07:31 GMT (UK)
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Alderney Marriage - PENGELLEY/GOSNEY
William Henry PENGELLY/PENGELLEY
Caroline GOSNEY
I would really appreciate some help with a twenty year search for my GG Grandfather early history.
I have him and his wife in the 1861 census living in St Anne Alderney. They then emigrated from there to New Zealand.
I can't pin down or verify where he was before. Over the years I have researched many many trails and the most likely is that he is from St Peter Port, Guernsey.
Listed as Willi aged 3 in 1841 census with parents John and Marguerite.This fits with his 1838 dob.
He did marry Caroline GOSNEY of Fording bridge, New Hampshire, England in abt. 1860. I'm not sure where but they then show up in Alderney.
Any help or information would be much appreciated
Regards Clare Pengelly Smith
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Welcome to rootschat
1861 Alderney for the benefit of those trying to help
Somerset Place, St Anns, Alderney
William Pengelley age 22 occ Mason born England
Caroline Pengelley age 17 occ Dressmaker born England
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Hi Rosie,
I havent tried to check this yet but a Tree has the William with Parents John//Marg arriving in Australia 1854
Arrival
25 November 1854 • Adelaide South Australia Australia
On the Evening Star. John, 52, cabinet maker, Margaret, 51, wife. Thomas, 19, blacksmith. William, 17, carpenter. Alfred, 15. Emma, 13. Eliza, 9.
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Hi Trish :)
That family are in St Peter Port in 1851 - their William is a Carpenters apprentice
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG8P-M4H
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Yes I dont think they are his Family as William is a Mason;
21 Jan 1865 • Cornwall, England
Arrived NZ 7 May 1865 - ship Greyhound Shipping Records - yesteryears.co.nz
William Henry 28 Mason
Caroline 21
George 3
William Henry 4 mths
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Are there no Parents named on Williams NZ Death Cert?
Trish :)
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I note that when he arrived in NZ it was as William Henry Pengelly but just plain William on 1861 census. He was a Mason and shown bc.1838 England.
An awful lot of people emigrating seemed to give themselves a second christian name for some reason and I think this may be the case here.
Until a marriage certificate is located I would suggest that William was the son of a John Pengelly/variants and Mary Ann West who married 1/4/1826 Kea, Cornwall. They had 6 children baptised together on 19/5/1839 Kea one of which was a William - census suggests he was born ca.1837. His father John was a Mason in 1841/1851 but said William disappears after 1851 census. In 1861 his younger brother Richard was a Mason like his father.
Since this William 'disappears' after 1851 census, his father and at least one brother were also Mason's, I think he is a strong contender to be 'your' William.
Hopefully the marriage certificate can be located to confirm or refute this.
Annette
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You would need to verify if this information is correct there is no marriage details for William & Caroline nee Gosney and no source details for birth of their sons George & William
tree details https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/portrait/KCF5-MPQ some of the details given
William Pengelly b1837 Alderney, Bailiwick of Guernsey died 23 July 1912 NZ
parents
John Pengelly b 1816 West Looe, St Nicholas Cornwall &
Susan Brown b1809 West Looe, Cornwall
an 1841 census entry has been linked for
John , Susan , Richard & William Pengelly age 2 living Fore Street, East Looe father occ mariner, they are ALL noted as born in this County https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQB7-F2J. so I don't think this can be the correct 1841 census if your William Pengelly was born in Guernsey ??? and baptism of Richard Brown Pengelly & William Pengelly on the same day (1839) father John's occ Sailor mother Susan
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-6313-M5Z?i=4&cc=1769414
List the same 1865 immigration as Trish posted http://www.rootschat.com/links/01rcu/
Son George John Pengelly born April 1861 Alderney Bailiwick of Guernsey
1936 Probate record https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/sources/GHPK-VZK
Son William Henry Pengelly born 18 July 1864 Alderney, Bailiwick of Guernsey
5 other children named all born New Zealand
National Archives http://www.rootschat.com/links/01rcv/ has this info. for Channel Islands: Civil and parish registers
Visit the Priaulx Library for civil records for Guernsey from 1840, Alderney from 1850, and for parish registers for the Bailiwick of Guernsey (c1570-present), and the Jersey Heritage Research Centre for indexes to civil and parish registers for Jersey.
Definitely worth keeping in mind the info. that Annette has provided due to occupation Mason and as Annette mentions trying to locate the marriage certificate as this should confirm his father's name & occupation. If the marriage and births are in Alderney a visit is needed to the Prialux Library (they have selected records) https://www.priaulxlibrary.co.uk/collections/family-history overseas researchers can make use of the library's paid research services.
If you require a specific record from a register they will search within a date range of a maximum of ten years and supply either a paper or digital copy - cost is £15 per lookup
Are there no Parents named on Williams NZ Death Cert?
You probably have these burial details from Anc*y New Zealand, Cemetery Records, 1800-2007
Avonside Christchurch Row Q 299. PENGELLY
Frank d 13 Oct 1882 a 15
Walter d 18 July 1884 a 14
William Henry d 23 July 1912 a 74 (so he was born c1838)
Caroline d 5 Oct 1926 a 83
Gwendoline Dora a 3 years
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/186410003/caroline-pengelly
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WOW That's a great amount of information given so quickly. Thank you all so much. I have put off using Rootsweb as I find it a bit daunting. Having read all the beginner guides I hope I've followed correct procedure. I will answer each of your replies below
Rosie - Thanks for the welcome. Yes correct you have the right census entry for my folk.
Trish - The family you mention are the Ch. island family I thought may be correct but I had actually forgotten in my research of many, many William Henry Pengelly that they proved to be incorrect. Probably confused myself with the Alderney census entry. Also there is a ancestry contributer attached to that family who regularly turns up in my research and attached to docs etc that I know are correct to my William. Thank you for reminding me if this Australia emigration record.
Yes - correct shipping record
My goodness Trish, you are a gem. I have been so focused on finding a marriage certificate or a birth certificate that I never thought to order his death certificate. So obvious. I will do that and see what transpires.
Annette - My family has a long history in masonry. Both William and his sons worked on many prominent cathedrals and buildings in Christchurch, New Zealand. It's very interesting to hear about the middle name addition. That has been a factor in my eliminations.
William of Kea, Cornwall was my main contender for over a decade until I put that on the back burner not finding any verification of that possibility. Then due to Alderney connection I focussed on any Channel Islands possibilities.. zthe Gosney family also has a strong connection with the islands. My notes on William of Kea are so old (on paper even) that I don't even. Follow them all lol. I will revisit.
Ladyhawk - Thanks for all the links re William, Caroline and sons. Yes, I do have all that info. From Alderney forward I pretty much have everything. I should have said so in my original post. I am sorry. I was trying to be succinct as recommended lol.
William of East Looe has been eliminated as he shows in the 1861 UKCEN when my William is in Alderney.
Thank you very much for the up to date Prialux info esp charges. I may have to contract them to look as travel options are a tad limited still🙄. Good idea.
Luckily the family plot in Avonside is still intact following the Christchurch earthquake. Funnily enough I got married at this church(pre quake when it was irreparably damaged sadly) and at that time didn't even know my ancestors were there with me on the day!
All in all that's a great response and I very much appreciate all your time. Plus you have given me some ideas going forward. Many thanks to you all once again.
Regards Clare 😀
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I really hope the Death Cert has good info on it Clare.
Let us know the outcome please.
Trish :)
(In Sydney but from Hamilton originally)
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Thanks Trish...I will!
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Update
Death certificate gave a wee bit more away although not all lol
So it is confirmed my William Henry Pengelly was born and married in Cornwall. Somewhere! His father was William also a mason. And his birth year which was implied but not verified is after July 24 of 1837. Certificate says nearly 75 in 1912.
So now I know he was just living in Alderney not born there. I will look into any possible masonry projects around 1861 when he was there .
I still can't believe I never thought to order a certificate. So thank you for your great suggestions, especially you Trish.
And they say nothing good comes out of Hamilton 😉😙😄 just kidding!
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Thanks for the update :)
Not found a father & son named William with occupation mason nor a marriage ???
1835 William son of William & Elizabeth no occupation for father
1837 William Henry son of William & Fanny father farmer
1840 William Henry son of William & Grace father labourer
Have a check on Cornwall OPC https://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/ - have listed a few names above
Edit to add
birth year which was implied but not verified is after July 24 of 1837.
Certificate says nearly 75 in 1912.
The only birth showing on GRO indexes for a William Pengelly (included similar sounding variations for surname) in Cornwall district was registered in Dec 1838 Penzance mmn Richards, there are a number of others after that year some with middle name Henry from 1840 onwards
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Quote;
And they say nothing good comes out of Hamilton 😉😙😄 just kidding!
No offence taken. I left as soon as I could ;D
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Quote;
And they say nothing good comes out of Hamilton 😉😙😄 just kidding!
No offence taken. I left as soon as I could ;D
🤣🤣 Love it
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Thanks for the update :)
Not found a father & son named William with occupation mason nor a marriage ???
1835 William son of William & Elizabeth no occupation for father
1837 William Henry son of William & Fanny father farmer
1840 William Henry son of William & Grace father labourer
Have a check on Cornwall OPC https://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/search-database/ - have listed a few names above
Edit to add
birth year which was implied but not verified is after July 24 of 1837.
Certificate says nearly 75 in 1912.
The only birth showing on GRO indexes for a William Pengelly (included similar sounding variations for surname) in Cornwall district was registered in Dec 1838 Penzance mmn Richards, there are a number of others after that year some with middle name Henry from 1840 onwards
Thanks so much. Yes, I went through them all again yesterday and revisited many that have been excluded over the years. I will just have to pop this on the back burner until another smidge of info cones along. There will no doubt be some info not quite right somewhere as I have a couple of DNA matches. Who all have different Pengelly couples attributed as our common ancestors so that says to me that there is a record keeping issue or such like somewhere.
Many thanks again for your continued help.😄
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19/11/1860 Marriage of William Pengelley, son of John to Caroline Gosney in Alderney. Tried to post a picture from Records but the technology beat me!
(http://)
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Peter - that's so fantastic! I really appreciate your input.
Now I have searched as stated all the records I've had access to over the years. Ive tried using the info you've provided this morning and not been able to find the record. I must be doing something wrong lol
Can I confirm where you found this info please?
I would love to get a copy of it.
Wow I'm so excited to make headway on this after such a long search
Thanks so much
Clare :D
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Also - I have a vague recollection that Alderney records are not available online...but could be wrong about that!
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These records are not online due to strange ideas about the spreading of knowledge buy some people. I cannot send you a picture on this thread as far I can see. Any ideas how I could send it to you.
Peter
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Hmmmm I read somewhere about a direct message option to exchange email. I shall trawl the help section. Technology and I are not friends
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Well that was quick...for me lol.
You click on the box next to the person's name FYI Peter.
Hope you got the message 😀
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Does his Father JOHN have an occp on the 1860 M/C?
If so the Death Cert info is incorrect naming his Father as William ::)
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Hi Trish
Yes yr correct that is another conundrum to unravel lol. My original line of research years ago took me to a John/mason in kea Cornwall but there were other facts that indicated it was incorrect. Each puzzle piece takes us closer lol