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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Tabbicat26 on Sunday 13 March 22 21:31 GMT (UK)
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Harry Wrench and Florence Edith Kerrison were married in Southwark, 1939/MAR. Please can anyone tell me where they were living at that time, and who their fathers were. Thank you
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You will have to buy the cert to get their addresses & his fathers name
Her birth is on freebmd so have you looked for her on the 1901 census to find her parentage?
There is also a tree on Ancestry showing she was b 1897 Suffolk & he was b in 1883 (no location) The tree has photos
They are on the 1939 register with full birthdates
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Thank you CaroleW. I was trying to avoid buying a certificate and hoped that someone had access to a genealogy site, if there is one, that offers parish registers. I know that priests often wrote additional comments in their registers and I thought there might have been one about Flo's previously unconventional lifestyle!
I cannot be sure which, of several candidates, is the correct Harry Wrench but a cousin (who remembers Flo) and I have taken Flo back a couple of generations in our efforts to untangle the details of her involvement in caring for her older brother's disabled daughter.
Thank you for your interest.
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Unfortunately - online Parish registers for that period end before 1939.
The Marriage cert would only contain the necessary info for their marriage without any scope to include any personal "snippets". The online tree I mentioned has his birthdate from the 1939 register. & also says he was b in Manchester.
Full birthdates weren't shown on death entries until 1969 & as he died 1946 there is no way of comparing but if he was b October - his birth would be registered in the Dec qtr & there is a birth in Chorlton in the Dec qtr 1882.
His birthyear could be incorrect on the 1939 register
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Interesting that you have her looking after her Brothers daughter.
By the Birth Reg of Evelyn she appears to be illeg and I thought likely Florences child.
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Hello
There is an Army record for a Harry Wrench joining up 12 Dec 1902 age 19years and 1month.
This would fit a birth Oct /Nov 1883.
His mother is Annie from Manchester 27 Clifton St Blackburn.
Earlier censuses give parents Richard and Annie Wrench baker which again fits Harry being a bread maker.
He was discharged 31 Jan 1903.
Looks like he was still in Blackburn with mother 1921.
His burial 31.oct 1946 at Northfleet Cemetery 1 Rural Vale gives a birth 1882.
But you have to think the 1939 index was in September so he wouldn't have had his birthday for that year,so he would look 1 year younger.
Ciderdrinker
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I have taken Flo back a couple of generations in our efforts to untangle the details of her involvement in caring for her older brother's disabled daughter.
Do you have her birth cert? I agree with trish1120 that it looks like an illegitimate birth.
KERRISON, EVELYN JOAN
No mother's maiden surname
GRO Reference: 1918 D Quarter in BLYTHING Volume 04A Page 1506
No different mother's maiden surname is recorded so it is likely that the mother was a KERRISON.
Debra :)
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Thank you so much for all this information.
I'm confused about Evelyn Joan as I'm not sure where she fits in, if anywhere, I don't think Flo was her mother. Incidentally there seems to be some confusion about Flo herself, the G R O Indexes have her being named Edith Florence but she was married as Florence Edith and was always known as Flo.
The disabled girl was Irene Elizabeth Kerrison b 1920/MAR Islington; mmn Stribling. Her parents were Flo's eldest brother Albert Henry b 1851 and his wife Elizabeth Bartley Stribling, there was also a son, (another Albert) born 1922. During his war service Albert senior had lost a leg and been left in constant pain which he tried to alleviate by drinking heavily. Elizabeth doesn't seem to be on the 1939 Register and there is a rumour that she just couldn't cope with everything and simply walked out on her family.
From what we hear it sounds as though Flo took on responsibility for disabled Irene in addition to continuing to run her "corner shop". Unsurprisingly this all proved too much and Flo is said to have asked her younger sister, plus her husband, to move to Gravesend to give help. The younger sister was my cousin's mother, Ruby Alice, and we've been trying to establish the timings of these various matters.
We know that Flo and Harry Wrench were married in Southwark 1939/MAR but had arrived in Gravesend by National Registration Day later that year. We have official paperwork (A.R.P. Training Certificate!) for my cousin's father, showing his address as Hayles Buildings in Southwark so we know Ruby and her husband were still in Southwark in 1939.
So the first question is: had Flo and Harry been staying with Ruby when they got married in 1939. The second question is: was Irene Elizabeth actually living with Ruby when she died - in Southwark 1935/SEP. My cousin has vivid memories of Flo and her little shop but has never heard even the slightest whisper of any children and I cannot find any children surname Wrench mmn Kerrison.
The information about Harry Wrench is interesting and I shall encourage my cousin to investigate further as I think he has the makings of a good genealogist and I'm sure he'll find it easier through having your input to help him!!
Thank you again for your help.
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I'm confused about Evelyn Joan as I'm not sure where she fits in, if anywhere, I don't think Flo was her mother. Incidentally there seems to be some confusion about Flo herself, the G R O Indexes have her being named Edith Florence but she was married as Florence Edith and was always known as Flo.
Have you looked up Evelyn Joan on 1921?
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The electoral roll shows Charles and Ruby Alice POST at 144 Hayle's buildings, Elliot's Row, Southwark in 1938/1939 as does the register. You would need to see the 1939 marriage cert for the address of the bride and groom at the time of marriage.
Also at that address in 1938 is Florence Edith CHAPMAN which is the same surname recorded for Evelyn Joan in 1939. The surname of her biological father perhaps?
Where is Irene Elizabeth in 1939? I missed that she died in 1935.
From what we hear it sounds as though Flo took on responsibility for disabled Irene in addition to continuing to run her "corner shop". Unsurprisingly this all proved too much and Flo is said to have asked her younger sister, plus her husband, to move to Gravesend to give help. The younger sister was my cousin's mother, Ruby Alice, and we've been trying to establish the timings of these various matters.
This happened prior to 1935? Flo already lived in Gravesend before marriage?
Debra :)
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Is this Evelyn’s death entry?
WRENCH, EVELYN JOAN age 27
GRO Reference: 1946 S Quarter in CHATHAM Volume 05B Page 253
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Also note that it was Evelyn Joan who was 'incapacitated' in 1939. Do you think these stories have been mixed up over time?
Debra :)
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Thank you for all these replies and I agree with you Dundee that the stories my well have become confused over time. Perhaps there were two disabled children in the Kerrison family, possibly some sort of inherited condition? The "disabled child" that my cousin was told about was said to have died in childhood, which fits with Irene who died at age 15 but Evelyn lived until 27.
I don't think it's worth pursuing this further, interesting though it is, as the information we really needed was the exact addresses for Flo and Harry Wrench in 1939/MAR. We now know that Flo was living at 144 Hayles Buildings with her sister and brother-in-law, whose family had been living in various flats (but not 144) in Hayles Buildings since coming to London from Cornwall. We were hoping to clarify exactly what happened and who moved in with whom, when Grandma, Ruby's mother-in-law, died in 1920 aged 47, leaving several young children to be brought up by her oldest daughter who, by then, had married my father's older brother - a tangled web indeed.
Thank you again for all the information, which I'll pass on to my cousin, and thanks also for being interested in my query and so willing to help.