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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: tillyann on Saturday 12 March 22 06:46 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
John Whitaker married Mary Ashworth on 27 December 1759 at St Nicholas Church in New Church Rossendale. Mary is the daughter of Edmund Ashworth and his wife Mary from Whitewallbottom baptised 11 Jul 1741 at St Nicholas again.
I can't find a baptism anywhere for John as he is from Cowtoot when he marries. I found one in Cowhill but they aren't anywhere near each other those places. Can anyone shed any light on a baptism for me please?
Also, I believe James Whitaker (my direct ancestor) is their son and I have no baptism for him either. He marries Ann Lord of Huttock End on 9 Sept 1794 at St Nicholas Church. I believe they have Edmund, my direct ancestor and a daughter Prudence both born in Four Lanes End. There are other children born to the parents with the same name in Lench but I don't think they are these Whitakers.
I am not intending on going back further than these people but I do want to make sure I've got this right and would really appreciate any input. Thanks.
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This appears to be your James Whitaker
Mother Mary Whitaker
Father John Whitaker of Edgside
Baptism 23 Oct 1774 Lancashire, Newchurch In Rossendale
There are also two baptisms for Ann Whitaker 29 Apr 1768 & 1 Aug 1769.
Too many John's to be certain.
Colin
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The James 1774 is also in a family tree noted as spouse to Ann Lord but I have just found this
James Whittaker
Mother Mary Whittaker
Father John Whittaker
Baptism 6 Apr 1760 Lancashire, Haslingden
Colin
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John & Mary also had the following children baptised Lancashire, Haslingden, there may be others/
Elizabeth Whittaker 19 Jul 1761
Alice Whittaker 2 Dec 1764
Henry Whitaker 19 Aug 1765
John Whittaker 22 Feb 1767
Colin
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Just in case you don't know - there are filmed records of St Nicholas, Rossendale parish registers amongst the Manchester data set on Ancestry. (Along with many other places you would not expect to find within that set!)
Some of the pages for St Nicholas are in a dreadful state though.
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John Whittaker
Death Age: 90
Birth Date: abt 1734
Burial Date: 16 Dec 1824
Burial Place: Haslingden, Lancashire
Colin
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Just in case you don't know - there are filmed records of St Nicholas, Rossendale parish registers amongst the Manchester data set on Ancestry. (Along with many other places you would not expect to find within that set!)
Some of the pages for St Nicholas are in a dreadful state though.
I would agree, the records are very confusing.
Colin
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Thank you so much Colin for this amount of help. I am blown away by that and Pennines as well thank you.
The Whittakers are such a massive family in those parts l have really struggled with them once they got that far back. So thank you again. Much appreciated.
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Hi,
John Whitaker married Mary Ashworth on 27 December 1759 at St Nicholas Church in New Church Rossendale. Mary is the daughter of Edmund Ashworth and his wife Mary from Whitewallbottom baptised 11 Jul 1741 at St Nicholas again.
I can't find a baptism anywhere for John as he is from Cowtoot when he marries. I found one in Cowhill but they aren't anywhere near each other those places. Can anyone shed any light on a baptism for me please?
Also, I believe James Whitaker (my direct ancestor) is their son and I have no baptism for him either. He marries Ann Lord of Huttock End on 9 Sept 1794 at St Nicholas Church. I believe they have Edmund, my direct ancestor and a daughter Prudence both born in Four Lanes End. There are other children born to the parents with the same name in Lench but I don't think they are these Whitakers.
I am not intending on going back further than these people but I do want to make sure I've got this right and would really appreciate any input. Thanks.
Cowtoot is in Bacup if you are not already aware of this. https://maps.nls.uk/view/102343979#zoom=5&lat=4287&lon=11626&layers=BT
(Just above Greensnook the shaded central area)
Lench is in Waterfoot - the road leads up from behind the police station that is there today.
Four Lanes End comes under Tunstead. Both Lench and Tunstead are within easy reach of St. Nicholas Church - Lench being the closest. Edge side is also within reach of St. Nicholas Church - Four Lanes End leads up to it.
Hope that helps somewhat.
Barbara
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This appears to be your James Whitaker
Mother Mary Whitaker
Father John Whitaker of Edgside
Baptism 23 Oct 1774 Lancashire, Newchurch In Rossendale
There are also two baptisms for Ann Whitaker 29 Apr 1768 & 1 Aug 1769.
Too many John's to be certain.
Colin
Just to confuse things there a burial for James Whitaker 1776
Burial: 18 Apr 1776 St Nicholas, Newchurch in Rossendale, Lancashire, England
James Whitaker - [Child] of John Whitaker & Mary
Abode: Edgeside
Buried by: J Shorrock
Register: Burials 1775 - 1781
Source: LDS Film 950393
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John Whitaker married Mary Ashworth on 27 December 1759 at St Nicholas Church in New Church Rossendale.
Also, I believe James Whitaker (my direct ancestor) is their son and I have no baptism for him either. He marries Ann Lord of Huttock End on 9 Sept 1794 at St Nicholas Church. I believe they have Edmund, my direct ancestor and a daughter Prudence both born in Four Lanes End. There are other children born to the parents with the same name in Lench but I don't think they are these Whitakers.
Henry Whitaker was the name of a marriage witness for John and for James.
2 other men named John Whitaker married a Mary at Newchurch within a few years of the Whitaker-Ashworth wedding. There were also some John & Mary weddings at Haslingden. There seem to have been at least 2 John & Mary couples, possibly more, having children baptised at St. Nicholas, Newchurch 1750s-1770s, + Non-conformist baptisms in Bacup. Abodes included Rawtenstall, Heald, Boothfold, Newchurch, Waterbarn, Edgeside and Tunstead. The family with abode Boothfold may have been the Non-con John & Mary.
Was Prudence the same who was buried at Newchurch in 1805, aged 5? Abode was Manchester. I could find baptisms only for Edmund and Prudence. When did Ann and James die?
Any chance the Whitaker family was Non-conformist?
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The James 1774 is also in a family tree noted as spouse to Ann Lord but I have just found this
James Whittaker
Mother Mary Whittaker
Father John Whittaker
Baptism 6 Apr 1760 Lancashire, Haslingden
John & Mary also had the following children baptised Lancashire, Haslingden, there may be others/
Elizabeth Whittaker 19 Jul 1761
Alice Whittaker 2 Dec 1764
Henry Whitaker 19 Aug 1765
John Whittaker 22 Feb 1767
Abode of parents of James was Priestintax in Haslingden Grane. Abode for Elizabeth, Alice and John was Rakefoot, Musbury, not far away across the moors, so they may have been same family. There was a Henry baptised 1770, abode Holden, again not far from Haslingden Grane, so possibly same family.
Site of Priestintax Farm, Haslingden Grane
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/479679
Those children may have belonged to a couple who married at Haslingden or a Haslingden man who married in Bury, both weddings 1759.
Abode for Henry 1765 was Heald. There were more children baptised at St. Nic, Newchurch with abode Heald, including John 1760 and Betty 1767. Heald may have been in Bacup. There's a Heald Lane, Weir and a Heald Top Farm.
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Heald may have been in Bacup. There's a Heald Lane, Weir and a Heald Top Farm.
Yes - Heald is Weir (Bacup). Other names to note for the surrounding area for Bacup/Weir are
Scar End, Broad Clough, Doals, Dog Pits, Dean Head and Whams.
There’s a good walk over the tops from the Weir side to Lumb just above Whitewell Bottom to get some perspective.
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Heald may have been in Bacup. There's a Heald Lane, Weir and a Heald Top Farm.
Yes - Heald is Weir (Bacup). Other names to note for the surrounding area for Bacup/Weir are
Scar End, Broad Clough, Doals, Dog Pits, Dean Head and Whams.
There’s a good walk over the tops from the Weir side to Lumb just above Whitewell Bottom to get some perspective.
I noticed Scarrend was abode for a Whitaker family. There were other abodes I couldn't place. An abode for another Whitaker groom and his bride was precise - "Meadows above Bacop near Broadclough in this Chapelry"; there's a placename Meadows and a Meadows Mill just south of Broadclough on the map link in reply 8 .
Yes, people would walk over the tops. There were ancient causeways and packhorse routes across moorland. Some modern roads didn't exist. Turnpike roads were made 18th-19th centuries.
Bacup is not far from Yorkshire. Non-conformists would travel or their pastors would.
NB to non-locals. Don't confuse Lumb near Whitewell Bottom (Lumb-in-Rossendale) with Lumb near Edenfield (which is also in Rossendale).
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Firstly, Colin I think you are more likely to be right about the family from Haslingden even though this would make James 13 years older than Ann. I have the baptism of Ann Lord as 16 May 1773 to Edmund Lord and Prudence of Boothfold. I believe this is her. James and Ann have 2 children Edmund and Prudence both of whom are born when they lived at Four Lanes End.
The age of the James Whitaker you first found would be a better fit (23 Oct 1774) to the John and Mary of Edgeside, but the 6 April 1760 James from Haslingden does have merit as John and Mary married at the end of 1759 and the children start arriving. There are definitely family names there and the fact there is a Henry Whitaker also fits with one being a witness at James and Ann's wedding in 1794.
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Hi Maidenstone,
Edmund son of James and Ann Whitaker is my line. He is baptised om 4 Oct 1795 at St Nicholas Church, Newchurch. There are a couple of other possibility baptised very close to that date but I think this is him. He has a sister Prudence baptised 17 Mar 1799 again at St Nicholas. She dies aged 5 with a burial on 4 Jan 1805 at St Nicholas. The parish record also says Manchester but I've never understood that.
The Lench James and Ann Whitaker I do not believe to be this couple. When our 1795 Edmund marries he calls his children James, Margaret Ann, Edmund (again my line), John, Elizabeth, John Munn and James.
The eldest James dies and is buried at St Nicholas, John Munn (1844) and James (1848) are baptised at Holy Trinity in Tunstead. Other than those Baptisms everything happens at St Nicholas through the generations. The mother of these children Margaret is an Irish Catholic.
It seems to me that Ann Lord dies on 12 Nov 1842 and James on 19 Sept 1844. They were living at Huttock End and both were buried at St Nicholas.
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Thank you Footo (Barbara)
That is very helpful and much appreciated. I'm in Australia so I'm not that familiar with the area. I have been to Newchurch, Bacup and Stacksteads but this was almost a decade ago and I have done so much more research since.
I have found a Mary Whitaker in baptised 28 Nov 1772 in Constable. This is more than 5 years after John is born in Rakefoot. Would they have been far from one another? Also, it seems strange that Henry is born in Heald yet everyone else is born in Rakefoot? I'm not sure he is one of theirs.
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Thank you Footo (Barbara)
That is very helpful and much appreciated. I'm in Australia so I'm not that familiar with the area. I have been to Newchurch, Bacup and Stacksteads but this was almost a decade ago and I have done so much more research since.
I have found a Mary Whitaker in baptised 28 Nov 1772 in Constable. This is more than 5 years after John is born in Rakefoot. Would they have been far from one another? Also, it seems strange that Henry is born in Heald yet everyone else is born in Rakefoot? I'm not sure he is one of theirs.
Constable (Lee) is below Rake Foot on the road that leads from Rawtenstall to Burnley.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102343979#zoom=5&lat=6258&lon=2441&layers=BT
Of no use but maybe good to know that we have a Rakehead in Stacksteads and there is also a Rakefoot Rd in Haslingden (for this I cannot see any reference to it on and old map as an old hamlet).
As Maiden Stone has referred to Meadows above Bacup is Old Meadows today on the left of Burnley Rd in Bacup - there is a water treatment plant there.
I’ve lived in the area for 22 years but don’t see myself as a local - which is often pointed out when I speak ;)
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Well flippin' 'eck, Footo -- you know an awful lot about your area, probably more than the people who point out your accent!
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Firstly, Colin I think you are more likely to be right about the family from Haslingden even though this would make James 13 years older than Ann. I have the baptism of Ann Lord as 16 May 1773
The age of the James Whitaker you first found would be a better fit (23 Oct 1774) to the John and Mary of Edgeside, but the 6 April 1760 James from Haslingden does have merit as John and Mary married at the end of 1759 and the children start arriving. There are definitely family names there and the fact there is a Henry Whitaker also fits with one being a witness at James and Ann's wedding in 1794.
I'm of the opinion that the children baptised at St. Mary, Haslingden were more likely to have belonged to another man /other men named John Whitaker who lived in Haslingden parish and who had wives named Mary.
2 possible candidates were:
Marriage 2nd April 1759 St. James, Haslingden
John Whitaker & Mary Heap, "both of this chapelry"
Marriage 14th September 1759 St. Mary the Virgin, Bury
John Whitaker, clothier, Haslingden Chapelry
Mary Holden, Bury
A witness was Henry Whitaker. Married by licence.
There may be a marriage bond in Lancashire Archives. Online catalogue has index to marriage bonds.
The only baptisms at St. Mary, Haslingden I found which may have been children of either or both above couples are the ones already posted by Colin and me.
There was also another John & Mary in Haslingden who lived at Henheads before and after marriage (1740) and had children in 1740s.
I have found a Mary Whitaker in baptised 28 Nov 1772 in Constable. This is more than 5 years after John is born in Rakefoot. Would they have been far from one another? Also, it seems strange that Henry is born in Heald yet everyone else is born in Rakefoot? I'm not sure he is one of theirs.
John & Mary Whitaker and their children baptised at St. Mary, Haslingden, Elizabeth (bapt. July 1761), Alice (2nd Dec. 1764) and John (22 Feb. 1767) lived at Rake Foot in Musbury. It was a different Rake Foot to the one near Rawtenstall on the map in Footo's reply #17. The nearest town to Rake Foot in Musbury is Haslingden. The nearest church was St. Mary, Haslingden until Musbury and Haslingden Grane got their own churches (St. Thomas, St. Stephen) in 19th century. Musbury township was on the border of Bury and Haslingden parishes and has switched parishes during its' existence.
Info & map on GENUKI
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Musbury/
Rake Foot in Musbury on the 1844 map looks like a farm. It's west of Helmshore village and south of a reservoir. Holden Wood is to the east. Holden Hall and Holden Mill are north of Holden Wood. A John & Mary lived at Holden when Henry, their son was baptised at St. Mary, Haslingden, 1770. 2 Priestentax farms are north of the Holden settlement. Priestentax was abode of a John & Mary when James, their son was baptised at Haslingden, April 1760. There may have been 1 John & Mary Whitaker who moved between Priestentax, Rake Foot and Holden 1760-1770 or there may have been 2 or 3 couples in that area. Spacings of baptisms suggest 1 couple.
Map Lancashire Sheet LXXI surveyed 1844-5
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102343976
Enlarge map to find Rake Foot. There's also a track named Stony Rake.
I agree that Henry of Heald, baptised at Newchurch, August 1765 doesn't fit with with the family who lived at Rake Foot, Musbury and who had their children baptised at Haslingden. Also, the gap between baptisms of Alice and Henry was too short if those families were accustomed to getting their children baptised as young babies.
A better fit for Henry of Heald was the family who had John 1760, and Betty 1767 baptised at Newchurch; abode for all was Heald. Bacup didn't have a parish church until 1788 although it had Non-conformist chapels.
Baptisms and marriages transcriptions from Lancashire Online Parish Clerks website
www.lan-opc.org.uk
Added. Rake Foot in Musbury and Priestontax were a bit over 1 mile (or 2km.) apart. The Holden area is between them.
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My Tattersall family were from same place.
Hey Head, Stacksteads.
Acrehill, Edgeside.
Lolly Mile, Newchurch.
Boothfold.
They married in to the
Hacking & Kibble families.
My earliest ancestor is:
Henry Tattersall (Mason)
B. Abt 1787, Newchurch
D. 28 Apr 1834, Edgeside
Married: Mary
Children:
James Tattersall
B. 21 Dec 1832, Edgeside
D. Feb 1903, Haslingden
Married: Mary Ann Hacking
15 Jul 1855, St Nicholas Church,
Rossendale.
From the advice and comments above I will myself need to look into the Manchester archives at the St Nicholas Church records to get more information.
There is an Ann Whittaker living with my 3x great grandparents James Tattersall & Mary Ann Hacking in the 1861 census.
She were B. 1840, Newchurch.
I mention this as an example of the dense families and their connections.
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He has a sister Prudence baptised 17 Mar 1799 again at St Nicholas. She dies aged 5 with a burial on 4 Jan 1805 at St Nicholas. The parish record also says Manchester but I've never understood that.
Abode for baptism or burial of a child usually meant abode of the father. He may have moved to Manchester for work and left Prudence behind with relatives.
There were other local Whitaker burials with Manchester abode.
St. James, Haslingden, 18th. March 1789 John, son of Robert & Alice
St. Nicholas, Newchurch, April 1790 John Whitaker abode Cheetham Hil near Manchester
St. Nicholas, Newchurch, 21st. Nov. 1824 John Whitaker age 86 abode Manchester
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My Tattersall family were from same place.
Hey Head, Stacksteads.
Acrehill, Edgeside.
Lolly Mile, Newchurch.
Boothfold.
My earliest ancestor is:
Henry Tattersall (Mason)
B. Abt 1787, Newchurch
D. 28 Apr 1834, Edgeside
From the advice and comments above I will myself need to look into the Manchester archives at the St Nicholas Church records to get more information.
Lancashire Online Parish Clerks website has transcriptions of baptism, marriage and burial registers from early 1600s until end 20thC./21st C. with gaps and illegible entries in 1600s.
www.lan-opc.org.uk/Rossendale/Newchurch/index.html
There was a Methodist chapel in 18th century and a Unitarian chapel in 19thC.
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When our Edmund marries he calls his children James, Margaret Ann, Edmund (again my line), John, Elizabeth, John Munn and James.
The eldest James dies and is buried at St Nicholas, John Munn (1844) and James (1848) are baptised at Holy Trinity in Tunstead. Other than those Baptisms everything happens at St Nicholas through the generations. The mother of these children Margaret is an Irish Catholic.
Holy Trinity, Tunstead opened 1840.
Where did John's middle name Munn come from?
There were 2 Munn marriages which may be relevant.
4th. Nov. 1766 St. Nicholas, Newchurch
Dugald Munn, parish of Manchester
Margaret WHITAKER, Broadclough in this Chapelry
Dugald is a Scottish name.
They had a daughter, Jennet, baptised at St. Nicholas 1767, abode Newhallhey. I think that will be New Hall Hey, Rawtenstall. It's near the modern Rawtenstall railway station.
6th Dec. 1797 St. Mary, Radcliffe
John Munn, gentleman, Newchurch in Rossendale
Betty Huck, this parish
Witnesses James WHITAKER, William Harrison
By licence.
Radcliffe is between Bury and Manchester. Bury is south of Rawtenstall.
When and where did Edmund Whitaker marry?
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Now the Munn connection is getting interesting.
Where did John's middle name Munn come from?
There were 2 Munn marriages which may be relevant.
6th Dec. 1797 St. Mary, Radcliffe
John Munn, gentleman, Newchurch in Rossendale
Betty Huck, this parish
Witnesses James WHITAKER, William Harrison
By licence.
These seem to be children of the marriage, all baptised at St. Nicholas, Newchurch, Margaret 1798, Robert 1800, John 1802, James 1804. Abode was Holt Mill. It's about a mile out of Rawtenstall, almost at Waterfoot, just before the junction with the road to Newchurch.
Marriage 14th. September 1854 St. Thomas, Musbury
Robert Munn, full age, bachelor, cotton manufacturer, abode Newchurch
Margaret Alice Turner, age 18, spinster, Flax Moss House
Groom's father John Munn, Merchant & manufacturer
Bride's father William Turner, Merchant & manufacturer
Married by licence.
I wonder if Robert was son or grandson of the John Munn who married at Radcliffe in 1797.
There's an old topic about Flax Moss House on RootsChat.
William Turner, (1793-1852) owner of mills in Helmshore, built Flax Moss House in Haslingden. He had 11 daughters and no sons. One of the mills, built 1820s is Whitaker's Mill.
https://wikimili.com/en/Helmshore_Mills_Textile_Museum
This may be a big red herring.
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Marriage 14th. September 1854 St. Thomas, Musbury
Robert Munn, full age, bachelor, cotton manufacturer, abode Newchurch
Margaret Alice Turner, age 18, spinster, Flax Moss House
Groom's father John Munn, Merchant & manufacturer
Bride's father William Turner, Merchant & manufacturer
Married by licence.
I wonder if Robert was son or grandson of the John Munn who married at Radcliffe in 1797.
Probably grandson.
Robert Munn was baptised at St. Mary, Prestwick 1832, son of John & Alice, abode Broughton. He had a younger brother Dugald (an earlier generation Dugald married in Newchurch 1766).
John Munn married Alice 1831.
John Munn the younger was in partnership with Robert, his elder brother. Robert looked after the business in Rossendale and lived there while John oversaw their concerns elsewhere.
www.bacuptimes.co.uk/index_htm_files/Heath%20Hill%20House.pdf
To complicate the Munn-Whitaker connections further, Robert and his wife named a son Robert Whitaker Munn, and Elizabeth, their daughter married a John Whitaker of Broadclough Hall.
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Hi Maidenstone,
Firstly I'll address the Munn question.
The Munns were very well known and respected in the area. They owned mills so they provided income to the people. When I was in the UK in 2013 I was talking to the Church Warder and he told me that the Munns and the Whitakers worshipped at Holy Trinity. He said the Munns were the original benefactors of the church -particularly James Munn. He also told me that the Whitaker- Munn connection was through the Munns raising a Robert Whittaker.
I think the middle name Munn for John was more of a tribute to the Munns rather than a family connection. They had already lost a son called John and it may just have been to differentiate.
The Whitakers in our line are tailors and millworkers they are often married to Irishwomen, some served in the militaty and from what I can tell they were dirt poor.
Any connection to the Munns would have been very loose.
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Hi RyanUK,
You are right about how difficult it can be to research given the amount of people with the same names.
I can't conclusively say that anyone other than the children and grandchildren of James and Ann Whitaker are correct. I am definite about those.
James Whitaker and Ann Lord which ones are my line -no idea really could be any.
His dad John Whitaker I think marries Mary Ashworth but again there are too many possibilities.
I still think the only reliable connection to all these people has been St Nicholas Church, Newchurch and a relatively brief stint attending Holy Trinity in Tunstead in the 1840s.
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Hi tilly.
I think the clues will be there we just have to be patient i suppose with what we learn :)
I have had the same experience as you with the same places and names.
I build a lot of trees but I don't keep ones other than my own generally,
I like to spend sometime with the dna results and look forward to finding clues that way.
Have you taken your Ancestry dna test?
if so do you filter your results to show for Whittaker surnames in dna results and then just look at the persons that have the least surnames you relate to that must include at least Whittaker.
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When our Edmund marries he calls his children James, Margaret Ann, Edmund (again my line), John, Elizabeth, John Munn and James.
The eldest James dies and is buried at St Nicholas, John Munn (1844) and James (1848) are baptised at Holy Trinity in Tunstead. Other than those Baptisms everything happens at St Nicholas through the generations. The mother of these children Margaret is an Irish Catholic.
When and where did Edmund Whitaker marry?
I’m thinking Ireland Maiden Stone…
On1841 census - Newchurch
Edmund Whitaker (1798) Tailor ——born in county
Margaret (1803) —— born Ireland
James (1825) —— born Ireland
Margaret Ann (1832) —— born Scotland
Edmund (1835) —— born Ireland
Elizabeth (1839) —— born Ireland
On 1851 Census - Stacksteads (Newchurch)
Edmund Whitaker (1798) Corporal Chelsea. Tailor —— born Newchurch, Lancs
Margaret (1802) —— born Ireland
Margaret Ann (1832) —— born Scotland
Edmund (1835) Tailor’s Apprentice —— born Ireland
Elizabeth (1839) Scholar —— born Ireland
John M(unn) (1845) Scholar - born Newchurch, Lancs
James (1849) —— born Newchurch, Lancs
There is a regimental record for an Edmund Whitaker born Rossendale (Rossendale being mistranscribed) 25th Ft - trade or occupation Tailor aged 16 in 1813 think his attestation says Salford Nov 1813 on the following page.
There’s a catholic baptism record for an Elizabeth Whitaker that comes up with the hints as being baptised in Cork in 1839 to an Edmund Whitaker and Margaret O’Donoghue.
There is also a possible catholic baptism on Scotlands People for the daughter Margaret Whit(t)aker in 1831 - father Edmund Whit(t)aker mother Margaret Donocher Paisley St. Mirins (St. Mirren).
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Footo reply #29. There's a concurrent topic about Edmund Whitaker's military career and his family in Ireland and one about them in Scotland.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=859831.0
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Thank you Footo (Barbara). I am very appreciative of your knowledge of the area which helps immensely and for your interest.
Edmund and Margaret are discussed as Maidenstone says via the link provided.
I'm not great at linking things, quoting etc but lm learning as l go.
I am still most stuck on James Whitaker and lm going back to the 1774 baptism for him as Ann was 1773. Going off names Edmund and Prudence Lord were Ann's parents. Both those names are represented as James and Ann call their children Edmund and Prudence. James father is called John and wife Mary if the 1774 James is correct. Mary is not a recurring family name though. Elizabeth and Margaret are. lf l can crack James parentage that it will take my research back to around 300 years and l'll be very happy with that.
I'll have another look at everything discussed here and in the other thread later today.
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Footo reply #29. There's a concurrent topic about Edmund Whitaker's military career and his family in Ireland and one about them in Scotland.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=859831.0
Many thanks - I’ll have a read later on tonight.
Thank you Footo (Barbara). I am very appreciative of your knowledge of the area which helps immensely and for your interest.
Edmund and Margaret are discussed as Maidenstone says via the link provided.
I'm not great at linking things, quoting etc but lm learning as l go.
I am still most stuck on James Whitaker and lm going back to the 1774 baptism for him as Ann was 1773. Going off names Edmund and Prudence Lord were Ann's parents. Both those names are represented as James and Ann call their children Edmund and Prudence. James father is called John and wife Mary if the 1774 James is correct. Mary is not a recurring family name though. Elizabeth and Margaret are. lf l can crack James parentage that it will take my research back to around 300 years and l'll be very happy with that.
I'll have another look at everything discussed here and in the other thread later today.
did you see the burial for a James Whitaker? (possibly the same family)
Baptism: 23 Oct 1774 St Nicholas, Newchurch in Rossendale, Lancashire, England
James Whitaker - [Child] of John Whitaker & Mary
Abode: Edgside
Register: Baptisms 1762 - 1775 from the Bishop's Transcripts
Source: LDS Film 1040340
Burial: 18 Apr 1776 St Nicholas, Newchurch in Rossendale, Lancashire, England
James Whitaker - [Child] of John Whitaker & Mary
Abode: Edgeside
Buried by: J Shorrock
Register: Burials 1775 - 1781
Source: LDS Film 950393
Taken from LOPC
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Personally I wouldn’t rule John and Mary out as the parents of your James. They may have had another son from 1776 onwards and named them James - as people have pointed out the registers are pretty shoddy. Perhaps they baptised him elsewhere or a record is not available as yet.
I would look through the registers myself to see if there is such an occurrence you may see something that a transcriber hasn’t quite made out and also look for other children born to the same parents and see if I could follow them to a possible marriage with a James as maybe a witness to it - it’s a long shot…
I had something similar with a relative also called James I’d found a baptism to the correct parents at Manchester Cathedral but the date of his baptism for age didn’t fit with any census records. Then years later some non- conformist records were put online for New Jerusalem Temple Salford I came across a burial that fitted with the age of the 1819 James and a baptism for the James I was looking for.
Barbara
(Edited to alter date)
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Thanks Footo (Barbara)
I appreciate your thoughts. I will continue to look and as you say the record may not have even been transcribe yet for all we know.
If l do find a record that l can verify in some way I'll let you know.
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Personally I wouldn’t rule John and Mary out as the parents of your James.
Perhaps they baptised him elsewhere or a record is not available as yet.
... also look for other children born to the same parents and see if I could follow them to a possible marriage with a James as maybe a witness to it - it’s a long shot…
Then years later some non- conformist records were put online for New Jerusalem Temple Salford I came across a burial that fitted with the age of the 1819 James and a baptism for the James I was looking for.
All good advice.
Lancashire Online Parish Clerks website began with C. of E. registers. Transcriptions of Catholic and Non-Conformist registers have been gradually added in recent years. I look at "What's new" on LAN-OPC regularly to see which registers have been added.
R.C. and N.C. registers weren't public records like C. of E. They were the property of the church/chapel or mission or diocese or circuit or however that particular denomination organised itself in an area. Some clergymen who travelled around to minister to scattered flocks kept 1 register for all of them.
Non-conformism was prominent in Rossendale. There were chapels in Bacup before there was a Church of England there.
From other FH research in Bacup I learned that some NC children were baptised some distance from where they were born.
There were unofficial NC burial grounds.